|
Allstone posted:I think they've said on multiple occasions that a majority of their players will never look at or post on a forum or reddit thread, so in that context it makes a fair amount of sense that less-enfranchised players are pretty often not going to see leaks until a fair amount later than the most enfranchised players. Also p much this: Rinkles posted:what "less-enfranchised player" is going to give a gently caress?
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 19:59 |
|
|
So am I to believe that, per wizards themselves, the vast majority of their player base will never look at or post on a magic forum or encounter online leaks But that those same players WOULD have seen the normal spoilers in noted internet smash-hit Uncharted Realms? Hmmmmm
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:They're gonna bring back dredge and flashback at the same time as a prelude to them unbanning dread return in modern Zoness posted:Please dont tease me
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
stinkles1112 posted:So am I to believe that, per wizards themselves, the vast majority of their player base will never look at or post on a magic forum or encounter online leaks
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:34
|
|
|
BJPaskoff posted:I agree with most of the article. Look at the shitstorm caused by people not being able to wrap their heads around {C} when it wasn't outright explained to them. In an ideal world, someone at Wizards would have seen the leak and immediately posted something to explain the cards, but there's massive amounts of red tape and corporate approval they need to get before they even acknowledge these things publicly. 90% of spoiler articles are fluff that you skip over to get to the card, are we ruining the experience when we immediately repost the card images here?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:35
|
|
|
Zoness posted:To be fair goons aren't the vast majority of their playerbase and i hear there are some goons who unironically like UR bring back elf nazi nissa
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:35
|
|
|
ThePeavstenator posted:bring back elf nazi nissa elf nazi nissa was basically the "best character they've had in magic fiction" in like the last 6 years
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:37
|
|
|
Barry Shitpeas posted:90% of spoiler articles are fluff that you skip over to get to the card, are we ruining the experience when we immediately repost the card images here? IMO they should start subbing in raunchy fanfic of popularly shipped characters so more people would be interested in the article itself.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
Zoness posted:On the other hand leaks necessarily imply theft or breach of a non-disclosure contract. The existence of said contract is most likely at some end result a profit to wizards. it clearly is a breach of a NDA, however it is in no way theft unless the guy actually stole cards, and calling it a theft of intellectual property is laughably insane
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:39
|
|
v.
|
Barry Shitpeas posted:90% of spoiler articles are fluff that you skip over to get to the card, are we ruining the experience when we immediately repost the card images here? No, but with these super early leaks, those sites are losing all the clicks they'd be getting from people rushing there at midnight to grab the images to repost to reddit/here/wherever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:40
|
|
|
hm, what argument shall I use to convince my largely millennial audience that spoilers are bad... hm... i know...let's go with the argument old people in the recording industry used against napster! wow.. another hard day's work done at wotc
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
Lancelot posted:hm, what argument shall I use to convince my largely millennial audience that spoilers are bad... hm... i know...let's go with the argument old people in the recording industry used against napster! wow.. another hard day's work done at wotc Don't forget that the movie industry is still using that argument.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Torment, Judgment, and Onslaught were 2002. It might have extended into Legions which was January 2003. 99% sure the 2002 leak Maro apparently referred to was when Judgment was spoiled in its entirety due to MTGO fuckery. I think they accidentally put all the data for it into an update or a public test build or something, and people figured out how to view it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
Serious post by black potus time. Spoilers sincerely ruin my enjoyment of the new set. Much like a good book, the anticipation of seeing a cool mythic for the first time when I rip open a pack and the rush of reading about how my opponents can't even (lol, I really enjoy this joke, probably one of my faves in magic) or whatever crazy rear end ability they stick on a red enchantment this time heightens my enjoyment of the game. Having that spoiled for me just takes the fun out of Magic. Leaks are even worse. At least when WOTC does it it's part of a coordinated effort to show me some sweet rear end mechanics, even if I'd rather learn about these cards along with the sweet smell of a freshly cracked pack. When some layabout leaks this poo poo I just don't even care about this game anymore. I honestly don't even want to open an Oath of the Gatewatch pack now that I know what will be in it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
If you thought the "can't even" jokes were bad, wait until kids start screaming about opening a "foil Wastes land no I said Wastes land not Wasteland LOL".Barry Shitpeas posted:90% of spoiler articles are fluff that you skip over to get to the card, are we ruining the experience when we immediately repost the card images here? To a writer who gets an ego boost by seeing the view counter on their article rise, yes. No, it doesn't matter to anyone but that one person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:07
|
|
|
black potus posted:I honestly don't even want to open an Oath of the Gatewatch pack now that I know what will be in it. [SW spoiler joke] You're a monster Somebody fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
Why Leaks are Bad posted:"Leaks often lead to bad first impressions. Not always. But it is unrealistic (and would be unhealthy for the game) for every card to be designed in such a way that it would be 100% exciting when viewed out of context and on its own. That would force power creep in design to levels that would surely ruin the game." Leaks are ruining the game because then we would have to make sure all the cards are super-duper good or else players won't be excited and then magic is ruined  Does this mean we can attribute power creep to leaks?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:35
|
|
|
Zoness posted:On the other hand leaks necessarily imply theft or breach of a non-disclosure contract. The existence of said contract is most likely at some end result a profit to wizards. Are you saying that NDAs are something WotC is making money off of, directly or indirectly? Like, the NDAs themselves, and not the whole "contract to print up all of our product and package it so that we can sell it to people" part of the contract? NDAs are signed by the service provider (the printer in this case) because otherwise the client would go somewhere else, because protecting their secret information is vital to their operations, but there isn't any monetary clause in the contracts themselves if they're upheld (breaking them is a breach of contract lawsuit). Keeping their secrets safe such that they can control them is profitable to them - the entire spoiler season is a giant marketing hype train that generates a ton of word of mouth advertising for the product and continual discussion, so they are profiting off of control of the information there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
quote:As it turns out, this is exactly what we did. Unfortunately though, much of the community had already seen Kozilek. So his rising out of the ocean at Sea Gate? Not that exciting. Our revealing of him on stream? Boring. The presence of the colorless mana symbol? Confusing. Because it was done out of context and out of order, the entire plan suffered and our fans were cheated out of the best experience we could deliver. c'mon, guys, I spent days learning how to make a sprite of kozilek slide across the background 
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
black potus posted:Serious post by black potus time. edit: eh, not worth it Somebody fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:Are you saying that NDAs are something WotC is making money off of, directly or indirectly? Like, the NDAs themselves, and not the whole "contract to print up all of our product and package it so that we can sell it to people" part of the contract? No not the NDAs themselves, but the spoiler season is obviously a promotional campaign that's devalued by leaks/NDA breaches.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
Leaks are fun, but there's something lost when you just get a big dump of the whole thing ore close to it like with this or NPH. People were down on NPH despite it having a large number of in hindsight truly ridiculous cards, all because it's hard to absorb the entire context and totality of a set at once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
black potus posted:Serious post by black potus time. fyi, i went to report your stupid rear end in a top hat post, but someone beat me to it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:01
|
|
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:Leaks are fun, but there's something lost when you just get a big dump of the whole thing ore close to it like with this or NPH. What's the "like with this" here? OGW hasn't been spoiled to nearly that extent, or has it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
gee i hope none of you ever click the link to the main forums page that would show you fyad's title
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Zoness posted:No not the NDAs themselves, but the spoiler season is obviously a promotional campaign that's devalued by leaks/NDA breaches. Totally. And as a guy who's been on both sides of those things I can tell you that for as innocent as it seems on the consumer level, there's all sorts of issues it causes on the backend. The leaks clause in the NDA for something I worked on had serious financial and relationship fallout for whichever party was insecure in their handling. The fact that these came from the printers (if proven conclusively enough, and that'll be pretty easy since everyone in the WotC/Printing/Distro chain will know exactly where cards are at this time) will likely mean they're doing a bunch of work for free/cheap in the future to make up for it, because while spoilers are cheap advertising they have a very real value that outweighs their dollar cost significantly. Basically whoever leaked this wound up loving over a lot of people for e-cred and his boss is likely going to have to pay out some, which means they'll try to figure out who leaked this poo poo so they can go after that person as hard as they can (which is pretty much only firing them because you can't transfer liability to an agent of your company). I have a friend who leaked the existence of the next iteration of a known yearly franchise before the official announcement by putting the title in his resume and if he wasn't a rockstar and if the leak wasn't such completely guessable information (the number behind the title got a +1) he would have been fired. Blowing a bunch of the showcase mythics and expeditions like this is a huge leak in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:fyi, i went to report your stupid rear end in a top hat post, but someone beat me to it. FYAD has been named "Han Solo Dies" for like 3 weeks; he almost certainly doesn't actually know. And as for leaks, well, they hurt WOTC, not the players, so I don't really give a poo poo if the company literally selling pieces of cardboard gets the feelbads.  I mean, sure, the marketing team exists for a reason, but trying to sell it to the playerbase is a laughable concept. It's not a movie, it's the image of a product we can't actually buy at the time we see it and have to buy later. Would I rather just see the entire expansion now? Yes, unequivocally. I don't give a gently caress about their marketing. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:08
|
|
|
I like to imagine the Origins leaks (which were just descriptions of cards with slightly uncertain manacosts) involved someone looking through a window with binoculars
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
BJPaskoff posted:I agree with most of the article. Look at the shitstorm caused by people not being able to wrap their heads around {C} when it wasn't outright explained to them. In an ideal world, someone at Wizards would have seen the leak and immediately posted something to explain the cards, but there's massive amounts of red tape and corporate approval they need to get before they even acknowledge these things publicly. Had you shown me the article a month ago I would have laughed at every line, but yeah this thread and reddit definitely went out of their way to show that even the... ahem... ~*~enfranchised players~*~ have no idea how the game works and are either trying to pretend that mechanics can't and won't work or throw tantrums because of the intense feelbads of trying to keep up with standard in a game that has clearly evolved to not be a game for them anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
 Great, and here I thought I could play some magic online digital objects for a change
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:17
|
|
|
The thing is, do we even know if these leaks are real? Like I can't imagine they'd drop something as big as the new diamond mana into a small set. And that Kozilek is obviously fake, the font isn't even right. This whole thing is pretty dubious all around. edit-Some of them aren't even in English! those cards could be saying literally anything and nobody would know. If they were real, why aren't they in English?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:17
|
|
|
i like leaks because i like to see cool and good new cards hth signed, a disenfranchised player
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:17
|
|
|
diamond mana has been in the title of fyad for weeks
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
alansmithee posted:The thing is, do we even know if these leaks are real? Like I can't imagine they'd drop something as big as the new diamond mana into a small set. And that Kozilek is obviously fake, the font isn't even right. This whole thing is pretty dubious all around. Please post a group selfie with you, your cat ,the new kozilek, Orange Fluffy Sheep, and his cat. Preferably you'd all strike a group pose like the dudes in Ojutai's Command.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
netcat posted:
Maybe someone at Wizards will write a five page diatribe on how MTGO being broken for big events kills hype for their digital products and is actually also theft somehow and then they'll take MTGO seriously
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
Corporations aren't people and can't be victimized. Victimization involves an emotional component, which means it has to be experienced by a sentient being, and a corporation is just a legal fiction, not a sentient being.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Please post a group selfie with you, your cat ,the new kozilek, Orange Fluffy Sheep, and his cat. All I'm saying is have we seen this "Eldrazi"s birth certificate? We have no proof this "Kozilek" was actually born in the Blind Eternities, and not just some third-world plane out past Homelands or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Zoness posted:gee i hope none of you ever click the link to the main forums page that would show you fyad's title Angry Grimace posted:FYAD has been named i have a bookmark that just takes me to this thread/subforum and SA-Mart. i can't believe people still read/post in fyad in tyool 2015
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
tgijsola posted:Maybe someone at Wizards will write a five page diatribe on how MTGO being broken for big events kills hype for their digital products and is actually also theft somehow and then they'll take MTGO seriously Isn't their standard diatribe on this sort of thing about how magic players can't possibly understand how complicated mtgo is and how we should all just shut up and be happy with what we have?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 19:59 |
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:And as for leaks, well, they hurt WOTC, not the players, so I don't really give a poo poo if the company literally selling pieces of cardboard gets the feelbads. To build on this a bit: If leaks get players excited and lead to overall good sales of the product, the brand should be happy enough. Yes, they might get the wind taken out of their sails, but if at the end of the day all they care about is dolla dolla bills, it shouldn't matter if each $100 worth of nerd excitement was generated by a leak or by an official preview article. Maro might have his principles offended, but ultimately I don't think they deploy the corporate lawyers in order to massage Maro's ego. The conditions under which the marketing team really gets to  about the leak is if it diminishes excitement about the set. It's easy enough to understand why they'd be disgruntled in that situation. That said, Wizards have only themselves to blame if they make a set such that learning about it causes people to not want to buy it. In fact, if you think about it, this should be sending up major warning flags, as it's tantamount to an admission that if we had information about their product, we wouldn't want to buy it as much.Now, there's something to be said for the idea that if a spoiler spoils like, a Grey Ogre or something, that's unfair to the marketing team. People see this boring 15th-pick draft card and they lose enthusiasm for the set far in advance. That's academic in this case, though, because the spoilers here could hardly have been better picked as marquee cards: Kozilek, big new "mechanic," Expeditions. If that doesn't get the target audience excited enough for you, fire yourself. All of this is, of course, talking only about marketing to nerds and not about corporations' abuse of the idea of intellectual property or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:33
|
|