|
dorkasaurus_rex posted:What if you have six people, three going Medic and three going Berserker? Surely this is the Hans strategy! 6 support armed with AA12s and medic guns.
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 17:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 12:04 |
|
|
Plan Z posted:we have a group of about 8 dudes who regularly hang in Mumble who want to play, and now nobody does, because nobody wants to fight Volter. same. When I want to fish for a loot drop I grab a solo normal to get those stupid achievements out of the way. Speaking of, they should cascade so if you clear a map on Suicidal it also gives you Hard/Normal. the hell kind of idiot programs lovely non-cascading achievements like that in 2015? like I said, if there's a server mod to just eliminate Hans until TWI fixes him then great. if not, I'd like him to be fixed before 2016, even as a beta test patch not final balance no warranty situation. idgaf, hotfix him and see how it works for a couple weeks if that's how you have to convince yourself. also the ammo count issue wouldn't be a problem if they hadn't also hosed with drop rates for boxes/loot items on map. I would have no problems with the existing ammo counts if I could rely on my team finding a box. If that means the team has to move out of a known safespot for ammo, that's a risk:reward proposition which is fun and good, as opposed to the current setup of sitting in a particular spot and never moving. It's also not a problem for all of the classes so if they want to just make some minor tweaks to 2-3 classes ammo reserve and call it a day, excellent. If it gets fixed, it gets fixed, you know? Psion fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:10
|
|
|
just like stalingrad, fools
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:11
|
|
|
Drakes posted:This always irks me on the evac map when I see people standing in the main street with the cars and zeds that can approach from like 5 direction directions. The upper level of the train station kinda lets you funnel zeds into two points so firebugs/supports can clear way easier. The fenced area by the vendor is great too, again funneling zeds into 2 points. I've tried a few holdout spots on evac point and I've come to the conclusion evac point is a bad map. Every other map is better except Farmhouse because it causes half the team to CTD. if/when that gets fixed Farmhouse can be fun and good. It's also good for demo in a way unlike other maps.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:17
|
|
|
haha this thing is stupid. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=111955 I like stupid things She Bangs the Drums fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
Psion posted:I've tried a few holdout spots on evac point and I've come to the conclusion evac point is a bad map. Every other map is better except Farmhouse because it causes half the team to CTD. if/when that gets fixed Farmhouse can be fun and good. It's also good for demo in a way unlike other maps. Best hold out point on Farmhouse I have found is the Second Floor wrap around balcony. It's also one of the few places where welding makes sense in this game. You weld up the all the Balcony doors except the doors right by the staircase. Hang out on the Balcony by those doors and all the ZEDs path up the stairs and straight to that door. Only occasionally do a couple of the trash spawn behind you. You can hold that choke point really easy. When a big ZED(s) comes you focus fire and you can retreat down the balcony to the rear to deal with them and if poo poo gets too hairy you can always jump off the balcony as a last resort. With a good team it's a great hold spot. I was able to teach a team of 4 complete level 0 pubbie noobs on hard to hold that spot(they told me it was their first day, a group of friends). It was a bit hairy on wave 3-4 just because of their inexperience but by wave 8 poo poo was clicking and they held out until Hans wiped us. Those pubs did me proud. 
She Bangs the Drums fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 18:32
|
|
|
She Bangs the Drums posted:The Patriarch fight being so much more fun really underscores how awful Hans is. how do you balance test? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:19
|
|
|
averox posted:how do you balance test? That might makes sense if Hans hasn't been in the game for 8 months and the Patriarch for 2 weeks. By that logic Hans should be super fun and the Patriarch a wreck, not the other way around.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
I think you're missing the point of averox's post. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
Psion posted:I think you're missing the point of averox's post. probably. I have been getting so spergy about how lovely Hans is recently that it has blinded me to sarcasm. She Bangs the Drums fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
a reasonable reaction considering how legitimately awful Hans is
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
If Hans didn't have a bunch of "phases" where he went invulnerable he would actually be much better. Make his melee do less damage but heal him a little. That way avoiding it is incentivized but it's not nearly unavoidable instant death if you are the wrong class.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
What's this about drops? How does this crap work?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
Nickiepoo posted:What's this about drops? How does this crap work? Same way as it works for any other game with drops, as far as we can tell. A few hours of playtime a week = get a cosmetic item drop
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 21:03
|
|
|
Okay I've now got an AK with some paint on it so yay me I guess!
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
I would actually reset my boost mapped levels if they made Hans fun to fight. He is literally the only reason that I wanted nothing to do with the grind. I guess I'll make a list of complaints and suggestions on Hans, and send it in to the developers or something. Here's a list of stuff I've heard from you guys, or my own that people have agreed with. quote:With the introduction of the Patriarch, a well-designed boss character that has lots of features that make him a fun, challenging fight, it's come to show that Hans Volter as a boss has a lot of problems. Over time, large groups on Hard-and-above seem to rarely ever beat Hans, even with good teamwork, player skill, or high levels. I'm sure it hasn't escaped your radar, so hear are complaints and possible suggestions that I've compiled from the players on the Something Awful forums. This list doesn't speak for everyone there, but they are points brought up often enough to warrant them. Anything I'm missing? I'm mostly kind of annoyed at the Reddit-style pseudo-intellectual tone in the beginning, but I can buff that up. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 21:32
|
|
|
Plan Z posted:While his gas grenades and machine gun attacks have been balanced well, I wouldn't say his gas grenades have been balanced well at all. It's better than at launch when they were basically instant-kills, but now they do a laughably small amount of damage. Gas should really do an increasing amount of damage the longer you stay in it, like Left 4 Dead 2's spit. That would probably take Tripwire a couple years to test and balance right, though, so I guess that isn't priority for this hopefully-not-so-hypothetical hotfix. His guns seem fine, though, and the rest of the message is good. What I don't get, though, is that before the patch that released Patriarch, I don't remember Hans being this bad. I took a trip down Shadowplay Lane yesterday and found videos of us taking care of Hans no problem on 4-man Suicidal (because I found the following Dosh Showers particularly amusing), with maybe one person dying at the end and no other casualties. The gently caress, Tripwire?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 22:17
|
|
|
ClonedPickle posted:I wouldn't say his gas grenades have been balanced well at all. It's better than at launch when they were basically instant-kills, but now they do a laughably small amount of damage. Gas should really do an increasing amount of damage the longer you stay in it, like Left 4 Dead 2's spit. That would probably take Tripwire a couple years to test and balance right, though, so I guess that isn't priority for this hopefully-not-so-hypothetical hotfix. His guns seem fine, though, and the rest of the message is good. Yeah, I won't really hold out for a few more agonizing months for a more complicated mechanic like that from an Early Access game. Not a bad idea though, especially if it worked well enough in L4D2.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 22:21
|
|
|
At this point in my KF2 career I am using my high-level Support to gain XP in other classes until those classes themselves are fun to play/effective. Having extra carrying weight, high health, and the ability to give allies ammo actually makes just about any weapon setup workable. At difficulties above Hard I would probably be mostly a drag on the group though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 22:26
|
|
|
I made it to Hans on Suicidal solo with a level like 12 Gunslinger. Hans almost instantly chewed me up with his dumb bullshit, but I am thoroughly impressed. Gunslinger is a really powerful class.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 22:30
|
|
|
Make has easier to stagger/stumble. His melee rush would be less frightening and lethal if a Support/Gunslinger/Commando can knock him out of it and cause him to refocus attention. Obviously put in some temporary bonuses versus staggering/stumble each time it happens so Hans isn't just stun locked and/or make his response to throw out gas or grenades to try and get separation. Further, make his attacks initially weak but gain bonuses for successive strikes, such that if you're in a group it's not that big of a deal, but he gets alone time with you he can (and should honestly) murder you. Or alternatively, make it so that his health absorbing attack is a normal attack, stack all his HP from the phases into one, and allow the health absorption to be interruptible. Then, keep the color coded phases to be new abilities for Volter so he becomes progressively more dangerous and aggressive. In example; Green phase: Uses guns, gas grenades, only melees at close range attackers. Yellow phase: Uses guns, gas grenades, smoke grenades, will melee charge nearby players for simple noncombo damage Orange phase: Uses guns, gas grenades, smoke grenades, explosive grenades, will melee charge weakest player for combo damage Red phase: Uses gas grenades, explosive grenades, smoke grenades, exclusively melee attacks with improved damage but much weaker to stagger/stumble effects and lacks autoaim on attacks (can be sidestepped) and must complete attack combo animation. This should lock him into attacking into one direction and make sidestepping easier and Volter more open to pummeling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 22:35
|
|
|
voltcatfish posted:just like stalingrad, fools COME WORMS WRIGGLE OVER HERE. As for triple medic/zerk, it might work, have one zerk tank him while the other 2 get behind him and smash away, the triple medics can dope up the lone zerker taking the damage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
ClonedPickle posted:I wouldn't say his gas grenades have been balanced well at all. It's better than at launch when they were basically instant-kills, but now they do a laughably small amount of damage. Gas should really do an increasing amount of damage the longer you stay in it, like Left 4 Dead 2's spit. That would probably take Tripwire a couple years to test and balance right, though, so I guess that isn't priority for this hopefully-not-so-hypothetical hotfix. His guns seem fine, though, and the rest of the message is good. Yeah, I agree that gas should be DOT as you describe but given Tripwire's balance seems to see-saw between OP and completely ineffectual I'll take gas as-is if they just fix his loving melee. Get rid of the literally game-sapping broken problem first, fine-tune for difficulty second. To be blunt, I don't trust them to get gas DOT right, certainly not their first attempt out the gate and I don't want to wait for 3 months so they can ~test internally~ if nobody gives a gently caress about the game by the end of the week due to the much larger concern of Hans' highly aggressive AI mixed with incredibly overpowered melee. And I also second your concerns about Hans being stealth changed somehow. The problems with Hans have always been there, but he was manageable. Nowadays, not really. Tone down the gently caress out of melee strength and quantity, give the players a reliable method to interrupt Hans - stumble, application of firepower making him flinch (RPG should do it, buff demo), whatever - players who are slower than he is (most of them) need some way to get him to break off from a melee rush charge which is now effectively uninterruptible and unavoidable death. There's no fun to be had in that type of "challenge." Patriarch just brings all the problems into sharp relief - but they all exist independent of Patriarch being in-game. Plan Z posted:Anything I'm missing? I'm mostly kind of annoyed at the Reddit-style pseudo-intellectual tone in the beginning, but I can buff that up. Aside from what I said above, no, I think this is solid. I agree completely, I'm glad you took the time to draft it, and I think it hits the right notes without getting into a litany of "and by the way here's literally every complaint." It's pretty focused on the biggest issue there is and that's good. Psion fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Dec 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 23:31
|
|
|
One more thing that's really dumb is if I have >56 rounds for a single Desert Eagle and buy a second one, I go down to 56 rounds. Also it's somehow possible to lose more than one head on the Rack 'Em Up counter per shot? I definitely lost 2 in one shot, probably due to penetration or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
ClonedPickle posted:One more thing that's really dumb is if I have >56 rounds for a single Desert Eagle and buy a second one, I go down to 56 rounds. Apparently the bonus stops at 7, but the counter will go beyond 7 to let you know how much of a high score you get. So if you rack it up to 11, but you miss, you go down to 6. as in, the bonus was at 7 and the display was at 11. When you miss it drops the bonus by 1 and however many it takes for the display to match up at 6. so internally you lost 1, but it looks like you lost 5. mind you I took the flat 20% bonus because gently caress that noise of trying to micromanage my headshots so I'm just repeating what I read here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 00:21
|
|
|
Psion posted:Apparently the bonus stops at 7, but the counter will go beyond 7 to let you know how much of a high score you get. So if you rack it up to 11, but you miss, you go down to 6. as in, the bonus was at 7 and the display was at 11. When you miss it drops the bonus by 1 and however many it takes for the display to match up at 6. No no no, I was at 2. I fired a bullet. I went to 0. I was mad. Also Rack 'Em Up really is pretty much a straight upgrade (when not being weird) since it's not hard to get two headshots and then you're at the Bone Breaker bonus anyway. Sure, I can lose a 7 bonus pretty quickly, but Bone Breaker isn't a great competing perk when you stop and think about it (and try it out). ClonedPickle fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 00:24
|
|
|
ClonedPickle posted:No no no, I was at 2. I fired a bullet. I went to 0. I was mad. it might be a bug. People were reporting something like that if you were dual wielding, shots were counting as 2 instead of 1.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 00:29
|
|
|
Does the Microwave gun alt-fire stop Hans? I know stopping power varies wildly in this game (i.e. 20 AA-12 shells don't completely disintegrate a Fleshpound's head) but you'd think the one attack designed to be a gigantic shove-bubble would do it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
The dumb thing about Hanz is that if you can outrun his melee then you can beat him. Medic, gunslinger, and berserker trivialize everything about Hanz on every difficulty as long as you know how to get him confused on geometry (doors, handrails, waist-high cover, etc) and kite reasonably well. If you cannot outrun his melee - ie every class except those written above - then GG, you stole fizzy lifting drinks and get nothing. Now, I'm not advocating for the ability to solo Hanz as every class, but it shouldn't be so loving black & white that a simple movespeed bonus is your only hope of success. Also I realized last night that one of the most fun things about killing the Patty is all the adds that he spawns when he goes and heals. This is a horde based game! Why isn't Hanz a horde based boss? I mean, Hanz is a p spidery looking dude, make him spawn a FUCKLOAD of crawlers and lower his damage to compensate or something other than the status quo of "Talk poo poo, Get Hit," - Hanz Volter, 2015. Edit: Farmhouse exploit is still alive and well. You can actually see it in the map editor, there is a little dip in the geometry next to the cellar entrance and the pathing nodes can't quite reach it. Just put a box there or something easy and it'll be fixed. I had fun last night playing in it because scrakes have a longer reach than most zeds so they try to attack you but end up chainsawing the air above your head and looking silly. Propaganda Hour fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Dec 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 00:53
|
|
|
Propaganda Hour posted:The dumb thing about Hanz is that if you can outrun his melee then you can beat him. Medic, gunslinger, and berserker trivialize everything about Hanz on every difficulty as long as you know how to get him confused on geometry (doors, handrails, waist-high cover, etc) and kite reasonably well. If you cannot outrun his melee - ie every class except those written above - then GG, you stole fizzy lifting drinks and get nothing. Now, I'm not advocating for the ability to solo Hanz as every class, but it shouldn't be so loving black & white that a simple movespeed bonus is your only hope of success. No, I want to have to drop 80 shotgun shells into the face of this turbonerd just to get him to red in the name of e-Bushido.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:01
|
|
|
Propaganda Hour posted:The dumb thing about Hanz is that if you can outrun his melee then you can beat him. Medic, gunslinger, and berserker trivialize everything about Hanz on every difficulty as long as you know how to get him confused on geometry (doors, handrails, waist-high cover, etc) and kite reasonably well. If you cannot outrun his melee - ie every class except those written above - then GG, you stole fizzy lifting drinks and get nothing. Now, I'm not advocating for the ability to solo Hanz as every class, but it shouldn't be so loving black & white that a simple movespeed bonus is your only hope of success. Dude Shut up about adding Crawlers.....
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:28
|
|
|
I fuckin' love crawlers and y'all will not disuade me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:33
|
|
|
Running speed issues + the invulnerability is my only problem with Hans (cause I like to play sloppy so pretty much only do normal/hard sometimes so no melee instakills). Knowing you straight up can't avoid him unless you're playing a certain class, and/or standing around like a moron, fingering my rear end in a top hat while waiting for the shield to go down gets old really fast. Edit: making the shield REDUCE damage instead of nullifying it would be so much better cause at least the player would have something to do instead of waiting or running away
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:39
|
|
|
Even if you have a team that is good and ready for Hans it takes like 10+ minutes to kill him because it always boils down to the last 1-2 people needing to kill him by kiting him across the map. In the time it takes, you could've taken out (or been wiped by) Patty and be on wave 3 of the next map.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
give more windup time before hans starts the kill rush make it so that when hans is winding up the kill rush it snaps the camera to him like you were grabbed by a clot/about to be kicked in the face by a cloaker in payday 2 so that you know exactly what is coming and can pull out a melee weapon to block make it so that damage dealt during the kill rush is low on the first hit but continually increases for every attack you fail to block give a cooldown (~10 seconds) during which hans will not kill rush the same person again and a minimum range that he will not kill rush people in unless every player is inside that range
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
Wait wait wait. You guys are way overthinking it when the solution has been in front of you the entire time. Ready? Two words. More crawlers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:45
|
|
|
Crawlers are my favorite zed. They're cute.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
scrakes are cuter
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
These are all splendid suggestions and i cant wait for them to be ignored for 7-8 months until they cherrypick one sentence from that spider post up there and make players insta-killed by his charge slashes burst into a dozen crawlers. The crawlers have 30 seconds of invul-frames.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 12:04 |
|
|
Cysts are my second favorite because of how dumb they are. They laugh like idiots when they manage to kill somebody, and their spawn animation for falling through vents is them literally ragdolling through them. I've had a vent actually get clogged by ragdolling cysts that were still alive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 01:54
|
|