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That's my fetish.
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Dec 15, 2015 22:22
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:43 |
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So it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Doctor's mother is human. I mean, the last episode established it as a possible story in the canon, more than a dumb FOX movie, right? Clara is the Doctor's mother. She may end up being his mother through time travel or through one of her 'shards', but by what's been established, she has to be his mother, right? It's her moral code that gives the Doctor his marching orders - he even accepted an order from her in Face The Raven. It's why he backed down in Listen - he was hearing the voice of his mother. He is willing to do anything, even unravel time, to save her. He becomes the hybrid he feared, and why he ran away: he was willing to destroy the universe to save his own heart. And eventually, she, and only she talks him down. He is ultimately forced to forget her, but he remembers the hole she left behind - his conscience. And of course she survives! More stories to tell. Edit: At least, if I were Moffat, that would be the story I would write. Edit 2: The woman from Karn was the "nun" in charge of the orphanage/school where he grew up when his mother left - "Come and face me, boy!" - Woman "Boy?" - Clara Come to think of it, it may be why the Universe was dying in only 5 billion years - the Doctor was destroying it far too early. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:36
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Duplicate Post
ashpanash fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:54
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ashpanash posted:So it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Doctor's mother is human. I mean, the last episode established it as a possible story in the canon, more than a dumb FOX movie, right? Well it's not impossible, but I'd say it's not impossible in the same way that it's not impossible that the Doctor will turn out to have just been thrown in Time Prison at the end of The War Games and been replaced by another Time Lord (one many thousands of years old) who was sent to Earth to keep on eye on things now that the Time Lords were aware of its potential as a future alpha-species. The half-human thing was just thrown out as yet another of many possible interpretations of the incredibly vague "prophecy", as a way of proving the point that it could mean whatever anybody decided to let it mean. Me says,"You like Earth a lot, maybe YOU are the Hybrid....... or maybe it's something else entirely" and then they went on to establish that if it was anything, it was probably the "something else entirely" (Clara and the Doctor as a duo being a "hybrid" too wrapped up in each other at the cost of the universe).
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Dec 16, 2015 03:13
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If the Doctor really was half-human, wouldn't people on Gallifrey know? When they go looking for the hybrid wouldn't they check the Department of Records to see if there were already any half-timelord people around?
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Dec 16, 2015 03:15
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Jerusalem posted:If it was anything, it was probably the "something else entirely" Yeah, probably. The fun thing about a fictional universe is that you get to make your own rules. Moffat started with fan fiction, right? Plus, this is good storytelling. Mythical, steeped in legend. No one remembers the people who scoffed at silly story elements during the classic period; they're taken as canon. It's not just Who - people are even willing to forgive the sloppy and the absurd first three movies if the next Star Wars is any good. After all, people make religions out of silly, stupid legends. It's effective. Angela Christine posted:If the Doctor really was half-human, wouldn't people on Gallifrey know? When they go looking for the hybrid wouldn't they check the Department of Records to see if there were already any half-timelord people around? I dunno, it seems that they can be very clever and very dumb at the same time. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 03:24
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ashpanash posted:Yeah, probably. The fun thing about a fictional universe is that you get to make your own rules. Moffat started with fan fiction, right? That implies he finished with it   God Bless the 5-ish Doctors.
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Dec 16, 2015 03:33
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You know, maybe Clara is the Doctor's mother. Meaning she was present to give the small scared boy the inspiration that it was okay to run like hell.
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Dec 16, 2015 03:56
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Rhyno posted:You know, maybe Clara is the Doctor's mother. Meaning she was present to give the small scared boy the inspiration that it was okay to run like hell. Yeah, I'm totally ok with simply the metaphorical interpretation - either way the story makes sense.
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Dec 16, 2015 04:11
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On that note: Who is Orson Pink? It is heavily implied that he is the (grand)grandson of Clara and Danny. I suppose now that Clara has a time machine she can go meet Danny. Edit: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Orson_Pink posted:In DWM 481, following Danny's death in Death in Heaven, Steven Moffat stated that one possible explanation is that Orson was a lateral descendant of Danny's. According to this theory, Clara contacted Danny's relatives after his death, told them of his sacrifice and gave them Dan the Soldier Man.
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Dec 16, 2015 05:50
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saucerman posted:On that note: Who is Orson Pink? It is heavily implied that he is the (grand)grandson of Clara and Danny. Time can be rewritten. Orson Pink might not exist anymore. The Doctor was supposed to die on Trenzalore and that didn't happen.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:03
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Yeah, Orson existed in Clara's future until he didn't anymore. That's the fun thing about them as time travelers, they'll often pop into the future and learn about specific events/people and then as time goes by in their present things happen that change that future. The events/people still happened in THEIR past, because the Doctor is a Time Lord and his continuity trumps everything else, but the future doesn't exist anymore. There was a fun version of this in the story that Cobi just did a right up about - The Pyramids of Mars - where Sarah Jane confidently points out that Sutekh can't have won because in her present the universe still exists. So the Doctor returns her to her present.... where the universe no longer exists. Also, as always, there are no "rules" and if it makes for a good story, they'll write about it regardless of the tedious minutiae of continuity/canon implied by previous episodes.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:16
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Angela Christine posted:If the Doctor really was half-human, wouldn't people on Gallifrey know? When they go looking for the hybrid wouldn't they check the Department of Records to see if there were already any half-timelord people around? Check the Department of Records? Are you.. joking? I suppose you've filled out the requisite form and submitted it to the Council? My word, the very thought of you suggesting that we shake things up this way has caused such a debate in the Council that they've appointed a new Chancellor! The Lord President has had to go into the room with the compubook on rules regarding the Department of Records, which hasn't been opened since the Age of Rassilon, and now there are those suggesting that his action is grounds for impeachment or execution. And now look, the Cardinal has fainted. I hope you're happy with all of the trouble you've caused, suggesting such a sacrilege as looking something up, which would imply we don't already know everything that we have to know.
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Dec 16, 2015 06:33
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saucerman posted:That's boring. Plus, it's kinda weird that Danny grew up in a children's home if he had aunts and uncles. Or were they all arseholes?
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Dec 16, 2015 08:57
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Mind Loving Owl posted:Plus, it's kinda weird that Danny grew up in a children's home if he had aunts and uncles. Or were they all arseholes? Do we know why he was there? It could be that he didn't know his family until later in life.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:02
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Bicyclops posted:Check the Department of Records? Are you.. joking? I suppose you've filled out the requisite form and submitted it to the Council? My word, the very thought of you suggesting that we shake things up this way has caused such a debate in the Council that they've appointed a new Chancellor! The Lord President has had to go into the room with the compubook on rules regarding the Department of Records, which hasn't been opened since the Age of Rassilon, and now there are those suggesting that his action is grounds for impeachment or execution. And now look, the Cardinal has fainted. You can't just use the Card Catalog of Rassilon?
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Dec 16, 2015 10:17
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CobiWann posted:You can't just use the Card Catalog of Rassilon? Nobody else has been able to figure out how it works in the 10 million years since he confidently introduced it.
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Dec 16, 2015 10:41
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Big Chrissy E returns to the role of the Ninth Doctor for a minute and a half long message to a sick kid. And so did a bunch of other Doctors and assorted other folks. Sly's message is particularly amusing
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Dec 16, 2015 10:50
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Jerusalem posted:Nobody else has been able to figure out how it works in the 10 million years since he confidently introduced it. You ever think Rassilon introduced AltaVista as a way to surf the Matrix and the Doctor upgraded it to Google when no one was looking? (The Daleks use Bing, I bet)
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Dec 16, 2015 13:30
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CobiWann posted:You ever think Rassilon introduced AltaVista as a way to surf the Matrix and the Doctor upgraded it to Google when no one was looking? Lycos. LYCOOOOOOSSS.
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Dec 16, 2015 13:37
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Fil5000 posted:Lycos. LYCOOOOOOSSS. Holy poo poo, Lycos still exists.
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Dec 16, 2015 13:40
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What's this nefarious note of nettlesome noisomeness? what  what  WHAT  Now I'm going to have to have to waste my Christmas stopping a bloody Ormazoid invasion, and suddenly all my seafood and poultry dishes taste really good! Curse you, After the War 
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Dec 16, 2015 15:18
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Old Bay is awesome.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:48
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There're doing theatrical screenings of the Christmas special this year. Looks like the 28th and the 29th.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:51
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jivjov posted:There're doing theatrical screenings of the Christmas special this year. Looks like the 28th and the 29th. The Sherlock special is getting cinema showings on Jan 1st too (with extra stuff, apparently).
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Dec 16, 2015 16:54
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jivjov posted:There're doing theatrical screenings of the Christmas special this year. Looks like the 28th and the 29th. I'm getting tickets with a friend and we're going to drive two hours to see it! 
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Dec 16, 2015 17:25
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Barry Foster posted:Big Chrissy E returns to the role of the Ninth Doctor for a minute and a half long message to a sick kid. McCoy just IS The Doctor, isn't he?
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Dec 16, 2015 18:19
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Mind Loving Owl posted:Plus, it's kinda weird that Danny grew up in a children's home if he had aunts and uncles. Or were they all arseholes? Maybe his dad was a tomcat and he had a bunch of half-siblings he didn't know about.
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Dec 16, 2015 23:22
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Mind Loving Owl posted:Plus, it's kinda weird that Danny grew up in a children's home if he had aunts and uncles. Or were they all arseholes? they could've still been kids/teenagers themselves.
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Dec 16, 2015 23:38
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Forktoss, I got your gift! Thank you! I'll put up a pic later. You are a fine ambassador* for your country. *of DEATH! <TWAAANG!>
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Dec 16, 2015 23:41
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 When the TARDIS lands in the sleep English village of Devesham, Sarah Jane thinks the Doctor has finally gotten her back home. But all is not as it seems – the village is unusually deserted and deadly white-suited spacemen patrol the countryside. The Doctor decides to contact UNIT. But their UNIT friends are also dangerously changed. Who is Senior Defense Astronaut Guy Crayford, and why is he in charge of UNIT? Who are his true masters, the Kralls, and what insidious plans are they concocting behind the scenes? The Doctor soon discovers that the invasion of Earth has already begun, and if he doesn't stop it mankind will be utterly wiped out. Tom Baker is the Doctor in The Android Invasion X X X X X Cast Doctor Who - Tom Baker Sarah Jane Smith - Elisabeth Sladen Harry Sullivan - Ian Marter Colonel Faraday - Patrick Newell RSM Benton - John Levene Guy Crayford - Milton Johns Corporal Adams - Max Faulkner Morgan - Peter Welch Styggron - Martin Friend Grierson - Dave Carter Chedaki - Roy Skelton Kraal - Stuart Fell Matthews - Hugh Lund Tessa - Heather Emmanuel Producer: Philip Hinchcliffe Writer: Terry Nation Director: Barry Letts Original Broadcast: 22 November – 13 December 1975 Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl8YtV4M3FY X X X X X The Android Invasion is a weird duck. It’s a pretty standard episode of Doctor Who, with strange goings-on, eerie moments, and an alien race behind it all with the purpose of destroying humanity. Taken in a vacuum, it’s an enjoyable little story even with it flaws. By virtue of its place of the broadcast order, however, it’s often considered one of the weaker serials of Tom Baker’s run, falling square in the middle of one of Baker’s best seasons. A UNIT soldier walks about in a trance, one arm twitching uncontrollably. The Doctor and Sarah Jane materialize nearby, in the right time but miles from London by way of Devesham. After being shot at by a group of men in white containment suits, the Doctor and Sarah Jane head to the village, which they discover is empty of any inhabitants…until the men in white suits bring the inhabitants into town via flat-bed truck. The citizens quietly distribute themselves about the village and go about their normal activities. Why do all the citizens have freshly minted money from that very year, down to the exact same coinage? What does all this have to do with the UNIT Space Defence Station just up the road? Why does the UNIT soldier ask Sarah Jane if she’s part of “the test?” Why is Harry Sullivan of all people trying to hunt down Sarah Jane? And why are a pair of bickering aliens crowing about their master plan to wipe humanity off the face of the Earth?  The Andoid Invasion, penned by Terry Nation, borrows from a LOT of other stories, both within the history of Doctor Who and from without. The master plan of these aliens, the Kraals, involves using android duplicates of human beings to transmit a plague so deadly, the human race will be extinct within three weeks, just in time for the Kraal invasion fleet to conquer the Earth for its valuable resources. The idea of an alien race replicating humans to take over the Earth can be traced back to the Zygons as well as the Autons, complete with the internal hand weaponry of that plastic menace. Considering the script was written in 1974, one could also argue that Nation took some ideas from movies such as Westworld and The Stepford Wives. In particular, the first episode is a masterclass in setting up a tense atmosphere as director Barry Letts shoots the sparse village and vacant-eyed villagers with an experienced eye.    With such familiar elements, the story itself is strictly boilerplate. A creepy village with people who act in a passively hostile way towards the Doctor. Antagonists who would rather shoot first and ask questions never. The Doctor and Sarah Jane run about, are captured, escape, and are captured again, with Sarah Jane falling down a cliff and hurting her ankle at one point (this happens to her as often as the Eighth Doctor gets amnesia!). A human villain willingly working with their alien masters to avenge a perceived slight. And a race against time to warn the unwitting authorities not to go through with their plan, the execution of which is a vital part of the villain’s plan, all while the Doctor and Sarah Jane try to hide from and outwit not only their own android doubles but those of Harry Sullivan and Sergeant Benton! There is something to be said about the cliffhangers in this serial, however, particularly the second episode’s. Long time viewers of the genre will see it coming, but it's still a nicely done moment.  However, there are a few flaws which drag down the overall quality. The vast alien race intent on conquering Earth, the Kraals, consist on-screen of two aliens in pig-faced masks who argue back and forth about capturing, examining, killing, and interrogating the Doctor, all within the same episode! It’s not a new budgetary concept to the show (how many Zygons have you seen today?), but it’s definitely noticeable when a huge alien invasion force boils down to two actors and some blips on a radar screen. Also, the alien plan for invasion falls apart under scrutiny. You're going to use a series of android duplicates to spread a virus across the entire planet, so somehow able to predict the entire staff of a space defence station as well as the citizens of a nearby village? You want to make sure the virus works, so instead of injecting Sarah Jane with it, you put the virus in a glass of water and just hope she'll drink it? The Kraal scheme is one of those plans that, like most “take over the Earth” plans, falls apart once the serial's over. The plot in The Android Invasion just falls apart quicker than most.   Where the Kraals fall short in the villain department, Martin Friend (who also starred in The Enemy of the World and The Invasion of Time) shines as Crayford, a British astronaut who was kidnapped by the Kraals and brainwashed to believe that he was abandoned by Earth when his rocket exploded. It's his miraculous return two years after being believed killed that is the ignition for the Kraal's plan. There's no doubt of Crayford's devotion to the Kraals. He plays the brainwashed accomplice very well. A scene where the Kraals demand a duplicate be made of him stands out as Crayford pleads for them not to go through with it EVEN as he sets himself up for the process. There's little hint of regret in Friends' performance; it's all hatred and malice towards his former colleagues. Which makes the moment where Crayford realizes the Kraal's deception a bit puzzling.  The Kraal's said they “rebuilt” him after the rocket explosion, but they couldn't save everything. Crayford wears the standard villainous eyepatch during the serial, but the Doctor convinces him that the Kraal's lied to him by asking him to simply raise his eyepatch to reveal that, despite what he's been told, his eyes is still there. So the Kraal's entire playbook for keeping Crayford on their side boiled down to “lie to him and pray he doesn't lift his eye patch at any time during the two years we need him.”  The Android Invasion is also the last appearance of long-time characters Sergeant Denton and Harry Sullivan, but their importance to the story is tangible as best, especially since Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart is nowhere to be seen (due to Nicholas Courtney's theatre commitments at the time) and the character who replaced him, Colonel Faraday, is NO Brigadier. In the behind-the-scenes segment, Hinchcliffe states that he wanted to get away from the UNIT stories of the Third Doctor and get more into the sci-fi elements of Doctor Who, but that if he had know this would be Ian Marter and John Levene's last appearances on the show, he would have definitely given them more to do. Marter himself said that "there was no real reason for Harry to be in it... I couldn't see the point," while Levene bemoaned the absence of the other UNIT regulars.   The highlight of the story is truly Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen. Even as the rest of the serial falters, the viewer knows they’re at least in for a treat with their interactions. The Fourth Doctor has his effortless charm (“Is that finger loaded?”) and his cleverness in convincing a UNIT soldier that a duplicate Doctor just ran past him and that he’s the real deal, as well as his nose for mystery in confronting the duplicate owner of the village pub. Baker was sick due to a scene where the Doctor was submerged in pond, leaving him with a raspy voice for much of The Android Invasion’s runtime, but it adds a bit to his performance.  Its Lis Sladen who gets to stand out in this story, as aside from jumping out of a tree before the coast was clear, it’s Sarah Jane’s turn to be smart, quiet, quick, and brave as she does some investigating of her own as per her background as a journalist, but also going so far as to actually break the DOCTOR out of jail for once using water and an electrical cable. Both Baker and Sladen also deserve some kudos for their acting as their evil android duplicates. Imagine the kids screaming at the Doctor for not realizing Sarah Jane is a duplicate, even though the adults know the Doctor is just leading her into a trap. And if you thought one Tom Baker was enough to devour the scenery, just imagine TWO Tom Bakers fighting in the control room to save the day. It's a really well-shot scene that makes it easy to believe that it's really the Fourth Doctor and his robot duplicate struggling as opposed to Tom Baker and his stunt double. By itself, The Android Invasion is a perfectly serviceable story of Doctor Who with its atmosphere moments of tension…but the story that aired before this one was the Gothic-themed Pyramids of Mars, considered to be one of the Fourth Doctor’s best and scariest stories. The story that followed this one was The Brain of Morbius, which turned the Gothic aspects up to 11 and horrified Britain to the point that Mary Whitehouse took UMBRAGE (as opposed to umbrage) with how “the most horrifying material in Britain” played out during a children’s program. On its own, The Android Invasion is a decent “C+/B-” episode, or a “two-and-a-half Rory’s” episode if you prefer the revival. It’s worth a watch even with its flaws, but when sandwiched in between two absolute classics it gets looked down perhaps upon a little more than it should. Random Thoughts - This is the second non-Dalek story Terry Nation wrote for Doctor Who, the other one being the First Doctor serial The Keys of Marinus - It feels like the Kraal's home base was the same set as the Zygon base from Terror of the Zygons, just a lot less...gooey. - ”Let's try the pub!” – Tom Baker's method acting shines through. - Kenneth Williams noted in his diaries that with this episode, “Doctor Who was getting more and more silly.” Wow, when you've lost the Carry On demographic... Cobi's Synopsis – The Android Invasion is all about Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen (with an assist from Martin Friend) and the eerie first episode, with the “take over the Earth” scheme falling apart under any type of scrutiny and the final appearances of both Harry Sullivan and UNIT Sergeant Benton criminally wasted. Next up – Mehendri Solon fancies the Doctor's head. Literally. Tom Baker is the Doctor in...The Brain of Morbius
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Dec 17, 2015 02:17
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I loving love the Android Invasion.
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Dec 17, 2015 02:24
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Rhyno posted:I loving love the Android Invasion. To be fair, I'm probably being a bit harsh on it because it's sandwiched between Pyramids of Mars and The Brain of Morbius with The Seeds of Doom coming right up. It's the weakest of the four episodes to me, but I'm not going to skip over it if I pulled it on a rewatch.
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Dec 17, 2015 02:46
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CobiWann posted:To be fair, I'm probably being a bit harsh on it because it's sandwiched between Pyramids of Mars and The Brain of Morbius with The Seeds of Doom coming right up. It's the weakest of the four episodes to me, but I'm not going to skip over it if I pulled it on a rewatch. Skipping anything with Sarah Jane warrants you getting punched in the lip.
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Dec 17, 2015 03:15
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Rhyno posted:Skipping anything with Sarah Jane warrants you getting punched in the lip. 
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Dec 17, 2015 03:18
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This is just how Tom leaves a room in general  CobiWann posted:(how many Zygons have you seen today?) My dreams.... of conquest! 
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Dec 17, 2015 04:07
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I've only just started listening but, hey big finish, what the gently caress http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who-you-are-the-doctor-and-other-stories a choose your own adventure audio story? gently caress yes
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Dec 17, 2015 08:55
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The Android Invasion is not so goodCobiWann posted:long-time characters Sergeant Denton Get out of here, Denton!
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Dec 17, 2015 09:46
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:43 |
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BSam posted:a choose your own adventure audio story? gently caress yes Well goddamn, they sure as hell aren't shy about trying new things!
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Dec 17, 2015 10:37
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