|
Segmentation Fault posted:nurse handy curie is cool and adorable but curie wants to be a human and I can't just say no to her Curie wants to be human because she believes humans have something special that a hyper-intelligent adaptive AI doesn't, she doesn't want to be human just to be human. You should totally be able to change her mind and give her a confidence boost or whatever and tell her that her being "human" (she doesn't ever actually become human, just a very very convincing synth, which isn't the same thing) isn't going to really change anything and she should just be the best darn robot she can be! Looking forward to a mod that allows me to do this. also lmao I don't give a poo poo about objectifying fictional characters, just amused that so many people go out of their way to make what could be an interesting companion just another boring "human". Kurr de la Cruz posted:I'd like a mod that lets you put Curie into different robot chassis. Like an assaultron Curie would be rad as hell. sentry bot curie, protection codsworth + let me have both at once maybe a smaller one once we get our hands on the GECK, since I can imagine a sentry bot companion would have some issues in some interior spaces
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 07:04 |
|
|
Azhais posted:And a Sentry Bot codsworth His speech should be sometimes pre-empted by the default Sentry bot lines. "Well maam, I suggest w---- ENEMY DETECTED, TERMINATE"
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:46
|
|
|
Yes and have him do his "terribly sorry" apology routine immediately after
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
LumberingTroll posted:Why do you keep calling it that? Its always been called the GECK. These are cool but really I'm just waiting for an ASIS equivalent because I love having huge battles more than just a few burly dudes who absorb bullets like Volgin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:48
|
|
Ddraig posted:Curie literally one has one choice, though, which happens to be an incredibly attractive (by wasteland standards) synth that is also able to perfectly replicate a French accent despite Curie having trouble breathing without thinking about it. please tell me more about how human curie is problematic because she's good-looking, in a game with characters like desdemona, glory, piper, sturges, preston, maccready... Babe Magnet posted:Curie wants to be human because she believes humans have something special that a hyper-intelligent adaptive AI doesn't, she doesn't want to be human just to be human. You should totally be able to change her mind and give her a confidence boost or whatever and tell her that her being "human" (she doesn't ever actually become human, just a very very convincing synth, which isn't the same thing) isn't going to really change anything and she should just be the best darn robot she can be! Looking forward to a mod that allows me to do this. What the gently caress is the difference between "want to be human because x reason" and "want to be human just because?" Also half the plot of this game is about synths actually being humans, just ones that are stamped out of a machine instead of ones pushed out of a womb Segmentation Fault fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Dec 17, 2015 |
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:50
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:please tell me more about how human curie is problematic because she's good-looking, in a game with characters like desdemona, glory, piper, sturges, preston, maccready... Where's the mod to make MacCready look like Kurt Russell from The Thing?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:52
|
|
|
I want a mod that makes the projecting posters in this thread get over their insecurities
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:53
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:55
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:please tell me more about how human curie is problematic because she's good-looking, in a game with characters like desdemona, glory, piper, sturges, preston, maccready... Those are all pretty bad dude, but my point was that Bethesda decided, for no real apparent reason, that having a French sounding Robot might be a little too much for people so made her into yet another attractive human (practically) because anything neat and original and kind of fun is anathema. Given that synths aren't actually human and even the Institute recognizes that the elements that make them human (i.e. free will, the ability to think for themselves) are actually a programming defect that they're trying to wipe out even the actual premise of the quest (curie wants to be a human) is flawed. Things don't have to be plausible, they just have to be consistent, which the entire Curie into a synth body thing isn't.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:59
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:I want a mod that makes the projecting posters in this thread get over their insecurities +100% weight modifier on a short barrel default component, oh baby
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:59
|
|
|
Codsworth would never be down for swapping into inferior Robco Bots. Maybe a Mr.Gutsy or Robobrain.Codsworth posted:General Atomics 4 Lyfe!
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2015 23:59
|
|
Ddraig posted:Those are all pretty bad dude, but my point was that Bethesda decided, for no real apparent reason, that having a French sounding Robot might be a little too much for people so made her into yet another attractive human (practically) because anything neat and original and kind of fun is anathema. Arguing that synths aren't actually human is like arguing that sparkling wine that isn't from a certain region in France isn't actually champagne. It looks like a human, walks like a human, talks like a human, it's a human. Also, whether or not humanesque qualities of synths are an accident is completely irrelevant. IMO you just seem really bent on disliking human Curie for some really weird reason.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:04
|
|
|
your pet robot reveals himself to have gone insane within the first minute of actually starting the game, even
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:05
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:IMO you just seem really bent on disliking human Curie for some really weird reason. Synth Curie sucks just by principle of robot Curie being way better, not to mention like a bazillion times more useful  Also pro-drugs Cait > anti-drugs Cait but that's obvious cause hahaha I'm not going to stop slamming Psycho and Jet for anyone, girl
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:07
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:Arguing that synths aren't actually human is like arguing that sparkling wine that isn't from a certain region in France isn't actually champagne. It looks like a human, walks like a human, talks like a human, it's a human. Whether or not humanesque qualities of synths are an accident is completely irrelevant. I guess the reason that stuff like this is never really explored as the complex thing it can be is that people don't want to think of the implications and just opt for the easiest explanation. Bethesda, for once, actually tried to make the entire thing seem more complex by cribbing some of the ideas from old-school Sci-Fi in terms of what exactly can be constituted as human and it's all wasted because "They look, sound and act human, they must be human" I guess that question died with Asimov and his ilk. Also yes, Curie as a robot was way better because it's at least an interesting character rather than It being just another female companion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:10
|
|
|
THe thing to remember is its mentioned more than once that a living synth is completely indistinguishable from a living human, its only when they are dead that they can be positively identified, which implies they are pretty close to human.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:13
|
|
Ddraig posted:I guess the reason that stuff like this is never really explored as the complex thing it can be is that people don't want to think of the implications and just opt for the easiest explanation. its pretty easy to come to the conclusion that sentient beings deserve autonomy and sovereignty when you have a properly-working moral compass
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:14
|
|
|
Sentrybot sounds cool but if I think about it, I can just see it being so goddamned terrible. Sentrybots are enormous, they can't fit through some doorways, can't get around them in narrow corridors, it'd just be awful. Unless maybe you scaled them down that might be adorable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:15
|
|
|
The synth thing is dumb because they are literally human clones with a chip to mind control them. Its not a debate they are human, they are just made in a lab and have mind control devices in their heads.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:its pretty easy to come to the conclusion that sentient beings deserve autonomy and sovereignty when you have a properly-working moral compass Truly sentient beings also don't tend to have a built-in killswitch that rests them to their factory default, which synths do. This alone was sort of a big indicator that despite them being a near-accurate approximation of a human, they lack the true autonomy that humans actually do. Which could have also been an interesting take on the nature of free will, but Bethesda wasn't actually willing to go that far presumably because people weren't willing to meet them half-way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
Mr Tastee posted:I see. Thanks for the links. Definitely going to have to wait until the GECK to work on this. It looks like the ones that currently exist are fairly simple, and the companion I plan on making I want to make fairly similar to the companions that are in the base game. Still, it should give me a general idea of how to code mods. Also, do you think it would be helpful to study mod files for other Bethesda games, or do you think it will be too different? Actually, get the Diane mod, follow the instructions to make her a companion, then Pam her with "showlooksmenu"
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:19
|
|
Ddraig posted:Truly sentient beings also don't tend to have a built-in killswitch that rests them to their factory default, which synths do. even the gooniest of goons tend not to be this nitpicky about what constitutes sentience but here we are Suppose humans had a nerve tucked away in the body that, when pressed down, caused complete and total amnesia. Humans touched at this nerve would revert to a "default state," with a blank slate of a mind that can be exploited for whatever purpose. Does that mean that humans aren't sentient?
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:21
|
|
|
Segmentation Fault posted:Suppose humans had a nerve tucked away in the body that, when pressed down, caused complete and total amnesia. Humans touched at this nerve would revert to a "default state," with a blank slate of a mind that can be exploited for whatever purpose. Does that mean that humans aren't sentient? by jove, human beings are already not sentient 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:25
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:by jove, human beings are already not sentient
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:29
|
|
|
Fereydun posted:this explains everything good one, todd howard 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:30
|
|
|
This tends not to be deliberately installed by a creator as the purposes of a failsafe, though. I think having your existence entirely dictated by another, supreme being who can, at will, shut down your very being is an interesting thing. Likewise, a robot that lacks the true process of creativity but is able to approximate it by careful manipulation and rules-lawyering with their own programming is also interesting. A robot turned into a human is neither of these things, and as such boring fan service. This is what Curie is. They could have even made Curie interesting by actually having her being a conduit to describe the synth experience, given that you (the player, and the avatar you are playing) are human, you could compare subjective experiences as the process of actually being a synth, even if it has the external appearance of being a human, might not actually be the same thing or even approaching the same thing as being human. Sadly Bethesda are not that great of a bunch of writers and they don't make games for people who want that kind of thing, so 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
this seems like a perfect debate for the fallout modding thread
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:41
|
|
Cat Army 
|
Kurr de la Cruz posted:Sentrybot sounds cool but if I think about it, I can just see it being so goddamned terrible. Sentrybots are enormous, they can't fit through some doorways, can't get around them in narrow corridors, it'd just be awful. There he'd be, sitting in every doorway you want to go through. That's why I go lone wanderer anyway, companions always in the way
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
The Iron Rose posted:this seems like a perfect debate for the fallout modding thread Basically I'd prefer it if they kept the unique aspect of Curie being a slightly weird robot and being able to make her into a different slightly weird robot than the fan-servicey human surrogate that she becomes. I'm pretty sure there are already mods that do this, so it's all good, for what it is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
We gotta stop all these fan service potato mannequins.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
The Iron Rose posted:this seems like a perfect debate for the fallout modding thread 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
SirDan3k posted:We gotta stop all these fan service potato mannequins.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 00:51
|
|
|
SirDan3k posted:We gotta stop all these fan service potato mannequins. I'm a grizzled enough veteran of the internet to know that somewhere out there, right now, there's someone jerking off to Curie as a potato-human. Deep in your heart you know this to be true, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:02
|
|
|
how many dicks can we put on this mister handy
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:02
|
|
|
There should be a quest to give Preston a human body since he's the most dull and robotic character in the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:10
|
|
|
General Morden posted:how many dicks can we put on this mister handy Our scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:10
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:Basically I'd prefer it if they kept the unique aspect of Curie being a slightly weird robot and being able to make her into a different slightly weird robot than the fan-servicey human surrogate that she becomes. I'm pretty sure there are already mods that do this, so it's all good, for what it is. Sentrybot Curie
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Our scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should. If Big MT still existed they would have probably tried it eventually, assuming they hadn't already.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:Likewise, a robot that lacks the true process of creativity but is able to approximate it by careful manipulation and rules-lawyering with their own programming is also interesting. What IS the true process of creativity? If you say anything other than "magic of the human spirit", you've described a program.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 07:04 |
|
|
Skandranon posted:What IS the true process of creativity? If you say anything other than "magic of the human spirit", you've described a program. Nobody knows. We haven't actually been able to fully replicate it either. We don't even really understand it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2015 01:16
|
|