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I'm pretty sure that Rey is Luke's daughter. The way the theme blared when she ignited the lightsaber was a thematic clue. I think Luke did like Obi-Wan did with him, sent him to a remote planet with someone else watching her from a distance after the massacre of his Jedi students. He left to keep her safe, since he's obviously a huge target for the First Order. He also left the clues to his location with R2 and San Tekka, and figured that eventually the Force would guide his daughter to him.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:00
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My comedy batshit-crazy guess for posterity is: Snoke is Revan from KOTOR. Orchestrated everything from the prequels onward. Waited for Luke to round up his group of the last remaining force-sensitives in the galaxy, then turned Kylo to the dark side, who then turned the rest of the students in turn. Knights of Ren = Knights of Revan. The "final part of his training" or whatever that Snoke mentions at the end will be Kylo vs the rest of the Knights. If Kylo wins, he's not only killed the rest of the force-sensitives left, but has also cemented his position as ultimate-distillation-of-Sith-philosophy apprentice to Snoke: killed a bunch of Jedi/his fellow Sith to fulfill the Rule of Two, descended from basically the greatest Sith Lord ever in new canon history, etc. The biggest flaw I see there is that Kylo got his rear end whooped like a little bitch a bunch of times (getting shot, barely beating Finn and then losing to Rey in spectacular fashion) so I dunno how he's gonna beat a bunch of his fellow ex-Jedi students. The reason I think it's Revan is that Kylo's mask still looks a shitload like Revan's, and there's that whole "Bioware were the only ones to not get an explicit 'your poo poo is no longer canon' response from Disney" thing. Actually, the more I think about it the more I feel like that raises a major question: how big of a badass can Snoke really be if he bets so much on yet another superweapon-with-a-weak-point on one hand, and what is clearly an unstable mess of a wannabe-Sith on the other? We all know the whole trilogy is planned out and everything is deliberate, so I feel like if Kylo suddenly becomes a super-badass Sith lord it'll really go against some serious character development they built up for him.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:01
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Bad Caller posted:Christopher Lee was 80 when Clones came out and 83 when Sith did. And they had to superimpose his head on a body double for Sith.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:01
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If she's not his daughter, it's a serious red herring with a lot of false hints. Obviously Kylo Ren is going to be redeemed at some point during the trilogy, I just really hope they don't repeat the first trilogy and have him sacrifice himself to save the day at the last moment.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:06
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Rey is Luke's daughter right? If she isn't its stupid. Also Han Solo 
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Dec 18, 2015 05:06
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Just got back from seeing it and I really enjoyed it. Sure there was a little bit of rehash stuff, but the characterization carried the movie. Who gives a poo poo about Death Star 3.0 when that whole sequence was just to get us to the scene of Han pleading with his estranged son. That "rehash" of the showdown between Luke and Vader in ROTJ had more going on than the entirety of the prequel trilogy.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:09
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FallenGod posted:Who gives a poo poo about Death Star 3.0 That's the only problem that I had with the movie - there wasn't much of a sense of foreboding or weight put on Starkiller Base. It was just kinda like "welp, there goes a couple of planets  "But the rest was so good that it's okay.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:12
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FallenGod posted:Who gives a poo poo about Death Star 3.0 when that whole sequence was just to get us to the scene of Han pleading with his estranged son. They were going to go to there anyways to rescue Rey, so there wasn't really any reason for the death planet to exist at all.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:15
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Hello Towel posted:That's the only problem that I had with the movie - there wasn't much of a sense of foreboding or weight put on Starkiller Base. It was just kinda like "welp, there goes a couple of planets That's actually both of my major gripes about it. Starkiller was introduced and disposed of so quickly and casually I expected everyone in the command room to shrug their shoulders and be like "lol just like the first 2, why did we even trip out we knew it would blow up with 30 seconds left." Also, there was waaaaaay too little exposition on the relationship between Resistance and Republic, why the Republic capital is some random planet, the repercussions of it being destroyed, etc. IMHO the movie could have been maybe 5-10 minutes longer, all of which could have been "poo poo there goes the Senate, how do we react" and maybe a little bit more coordinated large-scale attack on Starkiller. I get that the Resistance doesn't have the full might of the Republic behind them, and that the Republic navy was scaled down a ton after RoTJ, but poo poo even the Rebellion was able to muster up some Y-Wings and poo poo. What did they send against a planet-sized weapon, like a dozen X-Wings?
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Dec 18, 2015 05:19
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Wait, isn't Vader's old lightsaber the one that fell to the bottom of Cloud City attached to Luke's severed hand? Who dug that up? Luuke
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Dec 18, 2015 05:20
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Fish Fry Andy posted:They were going to go to there anyways to rescue Rey, so there wasn't really any reason for the death planet to exist at all. X-wings gotta shoot something and the Empire isn't the Empire if it isn't squandering its economic might cranking out ridiculous uber weapons that would have Hilter rolling his eyes. In all seriousness, I'm sure they could have come up with a more subtle way to show that the battle between the Republic and Empire is still large scale and that things weren't settled in the first trilogy. But I can't fault them too much for going for a simple / familiar space battle as a backdrop in this one instead of the non-sense clusterfucks the prequel trilogy had.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:21
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drunk asian neighbor posted:That's actually both of my major gripes about it. Starkiller was introduced and disposed of so quickly and casually I expected everyone in the command room to shrug their shoulders and be like "lol just like the first 2, why did we even trip out we knew it would blow up with 30 seconds left." Also, there was waaaaaay too little exposition on the relationship between Resistance and Republic, why the Republic capital is some random planet, the repercussions of it being destroyed, etc. A better idea is to put all that poo poo in the opening crawl.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:24
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^^^^^^^^^^ I mean I guess I can see "Although it was destroyed, the firing of Starkiller Base has left the New Republic in disarray" as part of the Ep8 crawl Why the hell did Phasma get so much build=up and publicity and then show up in the movie for like 30 seconds Thankfully, I feel like they got a bunch of dumb crap out of the way right at the start. The banter between Finn and Poe in the TIE was funny but thank loving God they toned down the humor for the rest of the movie. Same with Rey and her whole "stop holding my hand/girls can be pilots too" shtick.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:24
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drunk asian neighbor posted:That's actually both of my major gripes about it. Starkiller was introduced and disposed of so quickly and casually I expected everyone in the command room to shrug their shoulders and be like "lol just like the first 2, why did we even trip out we knew it would blow up with 30 seconds left." Also, there was waaaaaay too little exposition on the relationship between Resistance and Republic, why the Republic capital is some random planet, the repercussions of it being destroyed, etc. These were my concerns too. I did like Ren and how he turned into a frustrated punk instead of some Sith master. I also liked how he was so concerned that the Light side of the Force was winning which shows that the Dark side isn't something that is so easy to give into. I do wish his name was Anakin, though. Especially with Han and Leia saying there was too much Vader in him. But that might have ended up being too on-the-nose depending on how his story goes in the next films. Hope Phasma survived.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:25
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I liked the amount of humor. Threepio popping in front of Leia was one of the best moments of the whole movie.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:25
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Zero One posted:These were my concerns too. Anakin would've been way too on-the-nose in any case, but Ben was a good compromise. I do hope they don't try to milk the Light side thing you mentioned as a redemption thing, though. I personally hope it ends up being that he's just not that good at the Force and that's a) what drove him to turn against Luke and side with Snoke, b)why he was so easily beaten by Rey and also shot by Chewie, c) why he has to try so hard to act like a Sith and why he seems to be so bad at it (and by extension why he seemed so convinced that killing Han would make him stronger), and d) why he will hopefully die like a bitch in ep8, probably either to revitalize/power up Snoke himself or in a duel against one of the other, stronger Knights of Ren
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Dec 18, 2015 05:29
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I'm going to say that Rey is Luke's daughter and after Luke fucks up Kylo's training he turns into a Jedi fundamentalist, a.k.a. pulls an Obi Wan: he sends his lover with Rey to live on a remote desert world (if it's good enough to keep Luke from Vader until he's "ready," then it's good enough for his kid) and then exiles himself, grows a beard, and lives as hermit for a couple decades. Rey's mom at some point said something along the lines of "oh poo poo, I gotta go take care of something, brb" and then never comes back. I guess we'll find out someday. edit: and is 3PO's red arm a red herring? I noticed it changed at the very end. Grey Fox fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 05:30
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Just finished watching all 7 movies in a row on the big screen. Before I talk about TFA I'd just like to say Ian McDiarmid is a delight throughout the whole series. I will say TFA definitely and noticeably has JJ's fingerprints on it, for both good and bad. The bad mostly being how I felt there were a few too many cheap callback quips. (Leia: "Hey audience remember when Han saved me from the Death Star? Lol!") Also some of Finn's dialogue kind of made me feel like I was watching a 2015 blockbuster and not a timeless classic. The good is all of the characters' well-rounded development as well as the quick clip of the pacing, though coming off the prequels I suppose anything is gonna seem more quickly paced. I did not expect such a blatant cliff-hanger and I'm not so sure I appreciate it either. I get that's how serials worked in the 1940s, which the original Star Wars draws from, but hell even ESB ends at least a little upbeat. That to me is more importantly Star Wars-y across all 6 previous films. Questions: So are there three factions in play in this new universe? New Republic, First Order, and the Resistance? Is the Resistance basically an underground movement in First Order territory? Was that Coruscant that got blown up? A lot of big-picture stuff felt unanswered.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:31
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Subvisual Haze posted:Wait, isn't Vader's old lightsaber the one that fell to the bottom of Cloud City attached to Luke's severed hand? Who dug that up? Luuke This is how we get Star Wars 8: Why hello what have we here, Lando Ediiton 
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Dec 18, 2015 05:34
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:
It's mentioned what system is destroyed and it's not Coruscant, and it's implied that the Resistance is a psuedo-legal group funded by the Republic. Someone earlier in the thread theorized that the Empire and Republic signed a treaty (I think one of the new books confirms that) and that the Resistance is the Republic's black-ops style Rebellion inside Imperial space. Anyone else notice that some of the Resistance battle scenes had music that carried strong shades of some of the Imperial themes from the OT?
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Dec 18, 2015 05:35
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Phasma being built up as awesome and then being quickly disposed of fits right in with the legacy of Boba Fett.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:37
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Grey Fox posted:I'm going to say that Rey is Luke's daughter and after Luke fucks up Kylo's training he turns into a Jedi fundamentalist, a.k.a. pulls an Obi Wan: he sends his lover with Rey to live on a remote desert world (if it's good enough to keep Luke from Vader until he's "ready," then it's good enough for his kid) and then exiles himself, grows a beard, and lives as hermit for a couple decades. 3PO even says I know you didn't recognize me because my arm is red when he sees Han
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Dec 18, 2015 05:37
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drunk asian neighbor posted:Someone earlier in the thread theorized that the Empire and Republic signed a treaty (I think one of the new books confirms that) and that the Resistance is the Republic's black-ops style Rebellion inside Imperial space. Here's an article that summarizes all the important bits from the new canon books.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:37
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drunk asian neighbor posted:It's mentioned what system is destroyed and it's not Coruscant, and it's implied that the Resistance is a psuedo-legal group funded by the Republic. Someone earlier in the thread theorized that the Empire and Republic signed a treaty (I think one of the new books confirms that) and that the Resistance is the Republic's black-ops style Rebellion inside Imperial space. This makes sense to me. They also talk about the Republic's badass fleet as a separate entity in a longing fashion when planning the attack. Also did anyone else notice Nien Nunb helmet? It had the old rebel alliance logo on it, like the resistance has a bunch of hand me down equipment. (Or he's nostalgic  )
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Dec 18, 2015 05:40
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My major gripe with this film was power creep. Even after meeting a Jedi Master and being in the rebellion for months Luke could still just barely force pull a lightsaber to him in a life and death situation in an ice cave. Then a completely untrained force sensitive person somehow kicks the poo poo out of a trained Jedi after learning about the force same day. I'm really hoping that they explain that she was trained but had it blocked or Luke was subconsciously training her in her sleep (which would explain the whole speech Ben makes about the restless sleep and an island surrounded by water), but if that was the case why not have Luke say "welcome home" or "hello again" or some kind of hint instead of just staring at each other for thirty seconds. Seriously we have a whole trilogy with a guy who got chumped at the very moment we needed him to kick everyone's rear end and cement himself as a powerhouse we love to hate.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:44
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Also I really don't think Rey is Luke's daughter; I don't think she's the daughter of any major character. Just because you see her being left behind in a flashback doesn't mean that's Luke taking off - it's pretty clear the lightsaber was projecting the memories of everyone who's ever wielded it before. I think the "awakening" from the title and from Snoke's speech refers to the Force itself restoring balance by manifesting in new people in a strong way. The overall message of the trilogy (and what will get Luke to come out of hiding) is that the Force endures no matter how many times all the Jedi get killed off, and so Luke better get off his rear end and help out with the new crop of Jedi. Also, Abrams seemed pretty hell-bent on getting as much nostalgia and OT-character-reintroduction out of the way as possible, so I'm really hoping that the major characters introduced that havent been explicitly shown to be related to OT characters are all new additions. I sincerely hope that Rey and Snoke at the very least are brand-new unrelated characters. I will allow it if Darth Revan is related somehow, but only because I think it'd be loving awesome if it turned out that yes, Bioware's stuff is in fact still canon. Yawgmoft posted:My major gripe with this film was power creep. Even after meeting a Jedi Master and being in the rebellion for months Luke could still just barely force pull a lightsaber to him in a life and death situation in an ice cave. Then a completely untrained force sensitive person somehow kicks the poo poo out of a trained Jedi after learning about the force same day. This is why I think it'll turn out that Kylo turned against Luke and the other students because he was just a lovely Jedi overall - he can't really fight, he can't control his anger in the proper Sith manner, he struggles to even connect with the Dark Side in general. If I'm right it'll be interesting to see how they justify keeping him around for at least 2/3 of the trilogy. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 05:45
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Atlas Hugged posted:Phasma being built up as awesome and then being quickly disposed of fits right in with the legacy of Boba Fett. Who was never really a badass to begin with. Never understood how Boba got that reputation to begin with.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:45
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Yawgmoft posted:
Rey force grabbing the lightsaber over Kylo was incredible and got some of the biggest cheers in my screening (and gave me major chills). Kylo got "chumped" because he is strong but not in control of himself, he's far too emotional and gets carried away. You see the calmness rush over Rey before she whoops rear end. Kylo is every bit as hate-able as he needs to be, he loving killed Han, his own father.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:47
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Just got back from seeing it and it owned. Regarding Rey, I figure she's Luke's daughter. After Kylo turned and killed all his other students, I figure he sticks her on that shithole so she doesn't end up on Ren's or Snoke's hit list.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:48
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Yawgmoft posted:My major gripe with this film was power creep. Even after meeting a Jedi Master and being in the rebellion for months Luke could still just barely force pull a lightsaber to him in a life and death situation in an ice cave. Then a completely untrained force sensitive person somehow kicks the poo poo out of a trained Jedi after learning about the force same day. I'm really hoping that they explain that she was trained but had it blocked or Luke was subconsciously training her in her sleep (which would explain the whole speech Ben makes about the restless sleep and an island surrounded by water), but if that was the case why not have Luke say "welcome home" or "hello again" or some kind of hint instead of just staring at each other for thirty seconds. Maybe she's just really, really naturally good at it and Ren is a whiny chump. His attempt to look inside her head ends with her overpowering him and stumbling through a Jedi mind trick using her new-found ability to touch other people's minds. Ren thinks killing his dad will supercharge him with dark powers, while Rey just calmly reaches for the force instead of a Linkin Park cd during their fight. Ren is just an incredible fuckup.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:49
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RC Cola posted:3PO even says I know you didn't recognize me because my arm is red when he sees Han
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Dec 18, 2015 05:51
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Bottom Liner posted:Rey force grabbing the lightsaber over Kylo was incredible and got some of the biggest cheers in my screening (and gave me major chills). Kylo got "chumped" because he is strong but not in control of himself, he's far too emotional and gets carried away. You see the calmness rush over Rey before she whoops rear end. Kylo is every bit as hate-able as he needs to be, he loving killed Han, his own father. you're rationalizing poor story telling by filling in the blanks yourself. There was no pacing to develop her powers. Lot of people are noticing this stuff.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:51
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I didn't like this very much. Poe seemed like they just didn't want to pay Denis Lawson or something as he could very easily have been Wedge instead, they set up a bunch of mystery about Rey's past and it didn't seem like much of a reason, Phasma seemed pointless, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher were fantastic but the Ren actor was hooooorrrrriiiibbbbllleeeee. Overall I just hated the pacing. This was even apparent to my friends who started cracking jokes at the end about how long it was taking Rey to climb those goddamn stone steps. Like, come on. And what, was Luke just straight up standing on top of a hill for decades, or does he have a house up there? Where did he get food and supplies? I really wanted to like this. I don't know if maybe I am just expecting too much, but this felt just...eh. I didn't hate it, but, I didn't like it. Someone change my mind. I have loved Star Wars for twenty-four years, since seeing Empire on laser disc. I don't want to hate these movies, I want to still be excited about Disney Star Wars. What am I missing? Why should I give a gently caress about these new characters? Rey seemed alright, but I spent most of the movie bored. I wanted to like this, I really did.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:51
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drunk asian neighbor posted:Anakin would've been way too on-the-nose in any case, but Ben was a good compromise. He killed Han. He better be beyond redemption now.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:52
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I'm changing my idea for the final line: Luke: "you have your mother's eyes." Everyone in the theatre would have gone bananas.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:52
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Bottom Liner posted:Rey force grabbing the lightsaber over Kylo was incredible and got some of the biggest cheers in my screening (and gave me major chills). Kylo got "chumped" because he is strong but not in control of himself, he's far too emotional and gets carried away. You see the calmness rush over Rey before she whoops rear end. Kylo is every bit as hate-able as he needs to be, he loving killed Han, his own father. He's also got a gutshot and two body wounds going in to that fight. He's a petulant child who isn't as good as he believes he is and is emotionally drained. Him losing that fight the way he did, especially after Rey's light side awakening made sense in like every possible way.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:53
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drunk asian neighbor posted:This is why I think it'll turn out that Kylo turned against Luke and the other students because he was just a lovely Jedi overall - he can't really fight, he can't control his anger in the proper Sith manner, he struggles to even connect with the Dark Side in general. If I'm right it'll be interesting to see how they justify keeping him around for at least 2/3 of the trilogy. I thought his obvious flaws and lack of real skill made him a fascinating character. He seems to rely on brute force, and falls apart when it doesn't work. Keshik posted:but the Ren actor was hooooorrrrriiiibbbbllleeeee. You are out of your mind. He played that character perfectly. Instead of being a legit badass, he's just a tantrum throwing murderer with a massive amount of raw power who has confidence issues. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 05:54
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Keshik posted:I spent most of the movie bored. Welp, I think this may be the wrong trilogy for you. Sorry. This was practically Michael Bay levels of action mixed with fan service turned up to 11. afkmacro posted:you're rationalizing poor story telling by filling in the blanks yourself. There was no pacing to develop her powers. Lot of people are noticing this stuff. I'm not filling any blanks, those are things that happened. Lot's of people have lots of opinions, so what? DFu4ever posted:I thought his obvious flaws and lack of real skill made him a fascinating character. He seems to rely on brute force, and falls apart when it doesn't work. This. Rey was the opposite of Kylo and it worked well for the plot. weekly font posted:He's also got a gutshot and two body wounds going in to that fight. He's a petulant child who isn't as good as he believes he is and is emotionally drained. Him losing that fight the way he did, especially after Rey's light side awakening made sense in like every possible way. Yup. I do admit Rey went from nothing to strong very quickly, but not so much as to ruin the movie or call it poor story telling. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 05:55
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DFu4ever posted:I thought his obvious flaws and lack of real skill made him a fascinating character. He seems to rely on brute force, and falls apart when it doesn't work. Oh I agree, I thought he was great, I just feel like Abrams was telegraphing pretty hard on how crappy he is at being a Sith in general, so I'm interested to see what happens to him. Yawgmoft posted:I'm changing my idea for the final line: Another reason why she's not related. They would have to waste a bunch of ep8 establishing the story of Luke's wife. Kylo fits as Han/Leia's son since we knew at the end of RoTJ there was going to be romance between them, and it was a safe bet that if they had a kid, the kid would be Force-sensitive to a degree. Because of that, they were able to make the relationship work without spending half the movie explaining the backstory. Also I think a lot of fans are letting the books influence them - Leia develops her Jedi powers pretty well in the EU, IIRC. The movies never implied she had anything more than basic Force sensitivity, and so it makes sense that her son would also be not-great at the Force. DFu4ever posted:
This. The fact that one of his first major scenes is him freaking out and destroying a console with his ghetto lightsaber instead of calmly asphyxiating the highest-ranking officer in the room is evidence of this. Not to mention the fact that although Hux is a little intimidated by Ren, he doesn't back down from a staredown, he openly argues with him in front of Snoke, etc. Ren doesn't command nearly the respect that Vader did. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 05:58
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One of my favorite parts is that about 30 seconds after you hear about a senate and the film even thinks about going all space politics it just gets blown the gently caress up.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:00
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