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Rageaholic Monkey posted:As I said earlier though, they actually seem capable in this one as opposed to past movies. They wipe out that whole village on Jakku, know how to actually aim their weapons, have more advanced gear than they used to, etc. They got a definite upgrade since the end of the OT.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:14
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Hakkesshu posted:The imperial remnant still have a standing army and are evidently raiding planets for more recruits and resources. Seems logical enough to me that you wouldn't be able to just wipe them out within 30 years. I think the terminology is the real issue here, introducing the word "resistance" just makes it more confusing No, I mean why is there a Republic, a Resistance, and a First Order? Like, when all the Republic planets get Alderaan'd at the same time, why is there still a Resistance that's made up of all the old Rebellion generals? They even say, "drat, I wish we had the Republic fleet to help us out with destroying this new Death Star."
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Dec 18, 2015 10:15
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teagone posted:These new stormtroopers are different than the ones in the OT, no? General Lux mentions his First Order troops are badasses trained from birth after Kylo Ren makes quip about Snoke having to create a Clone Army because Lux's troops aren't getting the job done.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:16
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That was a lot of fun! Pretty much what I was expecting. I saw it with some folks I hadn't met before- friends of my friend who got us all the tickets (I had not plans myself to see it opening day), and one of them in particular really added to the experience. This guy, for context, within 30 seconds of meeting me was explaining to me that the latest version of Internet Explorer isn't as terrible as its reputation, and went into some of the finer details of the issues with the older versions. That's right, he was a High Pedant in his natural environment. It was hilarious. He was muttering through the whole movie, pretty much whenever he recognized a trope or perceived the influence of "JJ". But what really just broke him was when the Starkiller base fired. He had just begun to get excited at the lens flare, when all the planets blew up, visible in the sky. I could just feel this guy's soul breaking. He could not handle it at all. "JJ has no idea how big space is!" His grumbling for the rest of the movie was even more pointed, with particular rage for the Starkiller base sucking up the star, and especially how it left a planet sized star after it exploded. I thought it was really amusing how worked up he got about it, but honestly I'm surprised there haven't been more people out there griping about that... because I mean, it was totally hosed up in the way he thought it was. (That kind of poo poo has never mattered in Star Wars though.) Megasabin posted:This was a fun movie, but I think the people calling it fantastic or amazing are just high on star wars hype. The movie was essentially a retelling of A New Hope, with a less interesting trio of characters. That said I'm not calling it incredible or anything, just that I think the strongest part was the characters and so your particular complaint seems really weird to me. centaurtainment posted:As someone who didn't bother to do any of the apparently required reading before coming to class, why is there a Republic and a Resistance?
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Dec 18, 2015 10:16
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:It's ALWAYS a good trick. Lol.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:16
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Eiba posted:Best I can figure the Republic is the legitimate government formed by the Rebels after the Empire fell. At some point they must have signed a peace treaty or something with the Imperial remnants calling themselves the First Order. I'd guess they don't want to militarize or something and they're shying away from a direct war in the name of peace (they allow chaos, is what Hux says, I think), but still the First Order is pretty evil and so they're funding a group of deniable non-Republic-afiliated people to fight them- the Resistance. But there's a line about how the Resistance wishes they had the Republic fleet that was just blown up by the First Order...
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Dec 18, 2015 10:18
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Well Finn mentions being taken away from his family at a young age, so presumably he's not a clone and the First Order isn't exclusively using clones, right? I mean he definitely acts unlike all other Stormtroopers and removes his helmet and doesn't blindly follow orders unlike everyone else, so I figured he couldn't be a clone, or if he is, he's a clone gone awry because he's altering his programming. No, Finn isn't a clone. Kylo Ren was just ribbing the poo poo out of Lux with that sarcastic remark because his brand of soldier wasn't being effective enough. I figured First Order troopers are different from OT troopers, who from what I remember, were basically conscripts or people who joined the imperial academy, not soldiers trained from birth. Kithkar posted:Also, regarding Snoke if he isn't Plagueis i would be surprised. His theme comes right out of the story Palpy tells Anakin "The Story of Darth Plagueis the Wise", and what does Kylo say? "The Supreme Leader is Wise" Yeah, I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. Plus, his appearance in the film looks curiously similar to the Darth Plagueis action figure http://www.rebelscum.com/Darth-Plagueis-18-Black-Series-Hasbro.asp which I know lends no credence, but I thought it's an interesting correlation. teagone fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 10:19
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centaurtainment posted:As someone who didn't bother to do any of the apparently required reading before coming to class, why is there a Republic and a Resistance?
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Dec 18, 2015 10:23
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Mitchicon posted:I found Finn to be kind of annoying. The dude was supposedly trained from birth to be a soldier, yet he acts like he's completely lost and whiny all the time. He is a space janitor who fails his first combat deployment, never fires at a shot, and is scarred by the death of presumably one of his fellow recruits who leaves a lasting mark on his helmet. He was trained at birth to be a stormtrooper, but he is actually a hero, and so rejects his upbringing and the order of just having to do what hes told (shoot civilians in cold blood) to instead fly by the seat of his pants and save the day.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:23
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Jerkface posted:He is a space janitor who fails his first combat deployment, never fires at a shot, and is scarred by the death of presumably one of his fellow recruits who leaves a lasting mark on his helmet. He was trained at birth to be a stormtrooper, but he is actually a hero, and so rejects his upbringing and the order of just having to do what hes told (shoot civilians in cold blood) to instead fly by the seat of his pants and save the day. He also unflinchingly wields a lightsaber, without any proper training, against the First Order's primary enforcer who is a trained dark side Force user and nearly sacrifices himself by doing so in the process. Finn's got some massive balls.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:25
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Eiba posted:Did we see the same movie? The characters, all of them, were way more interesting than the original ones. They kind of had to be, as the originals were pure simple archetypes, and these new people had that hanging over their heads so they had to be something else. And they did it extremely well. Maybe interesting wasn't the right word. Likeable? Charismatic? Like many people I re-watched the OT for the first time in many years a few weeks ago, and what stood out to me the most about A New Hope, was just how drat fun/charming it was to watch Han, Luke, and Leia interact with each other. Their dialogue was funny and authentic, and you could their relationships develop throughout the film. I didn't feel that nearly as much with the new trio, especially since 2 of them barley talk to each other.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:27
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I'm rewatching a bunch of Star Wars poo poo because I can't see the film until tomorrow and I hit the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoon. It's aged a little worse than I remember; its slow, tense, dramatic silence is a little less suited to Star Wars than it was to Samurai Jack, but drat this is good. I can't decide if I like Mace Windu barefistedly punching droids or the part where Yoda sucks at using mind tricks.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:30
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teagone posted:He also unflinchingly wields a lightsaber, without any proper training, against the First Order's primary enforcer who is a trained dark side Force user and nearly sacrifices himself by doing so in the process. Finn's got some massive balls. Megasabin posted:Maybe interesting wasn't the right word. Likeable? Charismatic? Like many people I re-watched the OT for the first time in many years a few weeks ago, and what stood out to me the most about A New Hope, was just how drat fun/charming it was to watch Han, Luke, and Leia interact with each other. Their dialogue was funny and authentic, and you could their relationships develop throughout the film. I didn't feel that nearly as much with the new trio, especially since 2 of them barley talk to each other. Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 10:30
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teagone posted:Yeah, I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. Plus, his appearance in the film looks curiously similar to the Darth Plagueis action figure http://www.rebelscum.com/Darth-Plagueis-18-Black-Series-Hasbro.asp which I know lends no credence, but I thought it's an interesting correlation.  
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Dec 18, 2015 10:36
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:For looking like a real weakling at the very beginning of the movie, he really comes across as the polar opposite by the end. Dude has a hell of an arc. And I'm sure he isn't dead, just wounded. I mean, I hope. It looked like Ren slicing his back open with the saber hurt him a loving ton, but he was never declared dead or anything which makes me think he definitely isn't. And I sure hope he isn't. He's charming/heroic as gently caress. Nah no way Finn is dead. The resistance med team says something like "his heart is still beating" when they take him away. John Boyega really knocked it out of the park in this role. A lot of charm in his performance, and you can tell he just loves being in the new Star Wars E: who the hell is DARTH PLAGOOIS?
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Dec 18, 2015 10:37
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Krowley posted:John Boyega really knocked it out of the park in this role. A lot of charm in his performance, and you can tell he just loves being in the new Star Wars One of my favorite bits is when him, Han, and Chewie are infiltrating the Starkiller base and they capture Phasma. Finn giving Phasma the poo poo, saying he's in charge now, was hilarious. Boyega's acting there was great. Actually, his comedic timing throughout the whole film was solid I thought. Good stuff. [edit] I just remembered the thumbs up between him and BB-8, haha. 
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Dec 18, 2015 10:40
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Seen a lotta people praising the newcomers' performances the past couple days but Boyega's accent in this flick is an underappreciated thing imo
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Dec 18, 2015 10:45
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sinking belle posted:Seen a lotta people praising the newcomers' performances the past couple days but Boyega's accent in this flick is an underappreciated thing imo True, true. It's a stark contrast to his south London accent in Attack the Block, lmao.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:47
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I watched the Conan episode with the whole cast and crew after I got home, and yeah, it was weird hearing John Boyega speak in his normal voice after hearing him as Finn for 2 hours.
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Dec 18, 2015 11:00
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The main villain in Star Wars is a manchild who can't let go of the past. 
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Dec 18, 2015 11:09
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centaurtainment posted:But there's a line about how the Resistance wishes they had the Republic fleet that was just blown up by the First Order... I dunno, the proxy relationship was pretty clear to me. The Republic was funding the Resistance. Or at least the First Order thought so. The Republic presumably views the First Order as an enemy, but for some reason was not at war with them. The exact reason is kind of unclear. Megasabin posted:Maybe interesting wasn't the right word. Likeable? Charismatic? Like many people I re-watched the OT for the first time in many years a few weeks ago, and what stood out to me the most about A New Hope, was just how drat fun/charming it was to watch Han, Luke, and Leia interact with each other. Their dialogue was funny and authentic, and you could their relationships develop throughout the film. I didn't feel that nearly as much with the new trio, especially since 2 of them barley talk to each other. Maybe you're just nostalgic about the old ones? Or maybe the new characters just didn't click for you... Who knows. And I guess it doesn't really matter. Obviously if you don't like them as much, you don't like them as much. I'm just registering my hearty approval of these characters to basically stress that they can and have been seen as drat good.
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Dec 18, 2015 11:09
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At least now we're hitting my favorite part of these threads: the people getting upset at other people for not liking something they like.
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Dec 18, 2015 11:11
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teagone posted:It may have super heavy-handed, but I thought the moment just before Kylo Ren kills Han, where the lighting on Kylo's face is split between shades of blue and red during their exchange, and then it immediately changes to full on red the moment the Starkiller base completes its charge, extinguishing any semblance of light (both literal and metaphorical), was a nice visual cue. What a pretty movie Even though it was heavy handed it was incredibly awesome to see a star wars movie where what's going on isn't solely advanced by someone directly saying it to someone else, or an awesome score (John Williams makes up for a lot of the sins of the writing and acting in the OT)
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Dec 18, 2015 11:13
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teagone posted:One of my favorite bits is when him, Han, and Chewie are infiltrating the Starkiller base and they capture Phasma. Finn giving Phasma the poo poo, saying he's in charge now, was hilarious. Boyega's acting there was great. Actually, his comedic timing throughout the whole film was solid I thought. Good stuff. I posted my scattered thoughts in GBS then realised it was a serious post: Movie was good. As usual with Abrams it’s hard to spoil because you can work out the entire plot from the trailers, all the good bits are small moments that don’t rely on surprise - I knew the major plot beats and it didn't really affect my enjoyment. It’s definitely a bit too derivative of A New Hope but it has surprising warmth and heart for an ultra-safe guaranteed-Blockbuster mega-franchise merchandising machine revival, and honestly, there are worse things in the world than a competent sci-fi action film that leans heavily on nostalgia for its Feels, especially when the director and cast show genuine love for the source material that overcomes the inherent cynicism of making the movie in the first place. Star Wars was always a campy dumb space adventure and that’s exactly what this is – just a bit more self-reverential, which was probably unavoidable. Solid 8/10. I wish Luke had had a bit more screen time – or at least interacted with Rey or said something instead of staring at her with his mouth hanging open for five minutes like a crazed hobo – but gotta have that sequel hook I guess. Carrie Fisher was badass, hoping to see her go on the warpath in the next one. Really though, I like that other than having Han as the “guide” character they didn’t rely on the original cast too much and mostly let the new guys do their thing. The new three are really good and their camaraderie is really… charming and infectious, it really captures that good-time adventure serial vibe of the originals that most movies now are too ponderous and stuffy to stoop to. I thought so, anyway! Oscar Isaac maybe had too much of a poo poo-eating "oh god I'm in Star Wars this owns" grin at all times, but it made me smile. I do hope the next two can be more their own thing because they’re in danger of suffocating under the weight of the OT. It’s fine for the first one, I think, as a reboot of the franchise, but it’s a bit sad that Star Wars has gone from an exploration of adventure, mysticism and wonder, to an exploration of… Star Wars. Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 11:15
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Davros1 posted:At least now we're hitting my favorite part of these threads: the people getting upset at other people for not liking something they like. I was wondering why that wasn't in full swing already yesterday. The weekend will be fun! Also, after a night of sleep, I still think that Rey is one of the best Star Wars characters ever. She is really, really good.
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Dec 18, 2015 11:16
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:it’s a bit sad that Star Wars has gone from an exploration of adventure, mysticism and wonder, to an exploration of… Star Wars. Best summary of The Force Awakens I've read.
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Dec 18, 2015 11:20
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I thought it was weirdly out of place for the super programmed soldier man who has a super stern female boss to instantly and repeatedly try to hand hold and protect the weak little girl. Like where did he get that instinct from? It's like J J Abrams was just trying really hard to convey "Look girls aren't weak they're strong and I agree with this see?" And I'm not sure what you guys were talking about in the previous places -- the first system they blow up was explicitly the senate / new republic capital, with the aim of destroying the fleet that would help the rebels along with the people who would want to help the rebels. Then a few scenes later, the rebels don't have extra help and complain their fleet is gone or whatever. They wanted to blow up that system because the rebels would be an urgent threat, not just to begin some campaign of crushing. Then after they blew up that system they were done until their plot was foiled and they had to aim at the real rebel system. I definitely thought Snape was a giant and was like "oh poo poo forget the death star III, what the gently caress are they going to do to stop this guy?" All in all, really fun movie but not a lot special. Clearly a very very very safe "gateway movie" to re-establish the franchise or whatever. Expect cool poo poo from 8 and 9. Vehementi fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 11:34
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Davros1 posted:At least now we're hitting my favorite part of these threads: the people getting upset at other people for not liking something they like. Sorry, I guess I'm pretty tired. I didn't mean for my post to come off like that. I was trying to say... that person didn't like the characters, and I did, and... that's all. It's fine if they didn't click with someone else. I was initially expressing surprise ('cause I thought that was one of the movies strengths) and subsequently just mindlessly responding to people who quoted me. I am sorry if that came off as dickishness... Edit: Vehementi posted:I thought it was weirdly out of place for the super programmed soldier man who has a super stern female boss to instantly and repeatedly try to hand hold and protect the weak little girl. Like where did he get that instinct from? It's like J J Abrams was just trying really hard to convey "Look girls aren't weak they're strong and I agree with this see?" But then he kills dozens of his comrades in his escape attempt without any sort of recognition or remorse. You can rationalize that- his escape plan went wrong and he didn't mean to kill anyone, and no one really reacts to death all that strongly in the heat of the moment (Poe loses a bunch of comrades in the final battle with little more than a grim look at best (which is understandable in the middle of of battle))... But the fact remains- his whole story is kind of about the value and personhood of even the lowly evil expendable storm troopers... but then hundreds of other storm troopers die and no one cares that they are people who have been stolen from their parents and continually brainwashed against their wills. Feels kinda weird looking back at it all. Eiba fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 11:37
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Krowley posted:E: who the hell is DARTH PLAGOOIS? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dT34hGRdg It is implied that he was Palpatine's master. OneThousandMonkeys posted:The main villain in Star Wars is a manchild who can't let go of the past. The MSJ fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 11:41
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This was a good movie. Really good movie. Didn't change my life, but it's good to have nice Star Wars again. Kylo Ren is amazing.
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Dec 18, 2015 11:52
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CelticPredator posted:This was a good movie. Really good movie. Didn't change my life, but it's good to have nice Star Wars again. Kylo Ren is amazing.
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Dec 18, 2015 12:01
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I think it's been said, but I love how his character goes against one of the main themes of Star Wars, in general. Adam Driver sold it. I mean, everyone sold it. I love all these new characters. I can't think of one I found annoying! I wanted more of Moz too! I love that I can look forward to a Star Wars movie, and feel optimistic again about the whole thing. Glad this one got out of the way so we can get to some real poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2015 12:07
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Very quick, very scattered thoughts. I give it B+. I may be spoiled by the existence of a six-part prequel that is filled to the brim with lore, because I feel like this movie underexplained...nearly everything. I don't know why the galaxy is the way that it is. I don't know what either side in the conflict actually wants. I'm not completely solid on what individual characters even want. I like all these characters. Hell, I love all their interactions. But I could not tell you a single thing about Poe Dameron besides him being a good pilot. I struggle to describe why exactly Finn switched sides, how he should be any different from any other kool-aid sipping Stormtrooper. Rey is a force (lol) to behold but the narrative simply doesn't support having to wait two more years to discover her mysterious past aside from the fact that it would stop being mysterious if they explained it. Kylo Ren is pathetic, but it's the kind of pathetic that I can get behind and am in full support of. He seems very much like a commentary and reflection on Anakin. Even so, I don't know what I'm expected to feel about his fall to the dark side because I literally could not tell you a single thing about it. He just hates his father, for some reason? Why? How does he feel about his mother? This is supposed to be some sort of epic family tragedy but I don't really feel anything about it because every single detail is blank. Same with the rest of the First Order, really. There must be like four or five deleted scenes about Phasma because otherwise...what is this character? Why does she exist? I know that her role is to be the supervisor for the indoctrinated Stormtroopers but that could have been filled by anyone...heck, it kind of was filled already by Hux. Hux, by the way, is the only character who verbalizes anything at all about the political situation of the galaxy and it still just kinda boils down to "The other side is bad! They lie about stuff! What stuff? The stuff!" Honestly, I think this is a really appealing, really well-crafted film in virtually every aspect but worldbuilding.
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Dec 18, 2015 12:28
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You guys can use the spoiler thread so you don't need to post in black bars 
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Dec 18, 2015 12:33
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yeah that's one for the spoiler thread but I definitely agree with you. I don't usually care about worldbuilding but imo they dropped the ball on it enough that it does actually hurt the narrative and characterisation
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Dec 18, 2015 12:35
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To anyone who would use the words "pathetic" and "useless" to describe Kylo Ren, are you invoking those descriptors of his character because you feel bad for him? Why am I reading him as tragic and brooding instead? His methods were mostly effective, and I found him to be terrifying and aggressive. [edit] I'd personally use the words "vulnerable" and "unpredictable" now that I think about his character more. Or maybe petulant would be better? It may be trivial and/or pedantic, but I never saw Kylo Ren as pathetic or useless. gently caress I should sleep. I'm watching this movie again in 4 hours, lmao. teagone fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 12:41
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Re: Kylo RenBrianWilly posted:Kylo Ren is pathetic, but it's the kind of pathetic that I can get behind and am in full support of. He seems very much like a commentary and reflection on Anakin. Even so, I don't know what I'm expected to feel about his fall to the dark side because I literally could not tell you a single thing about it. He didn't 'fall' to the Dark Side, he escaped the seduction of the Light Side. 
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Dec 18, 2015 12:42
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Thinking back on the movie, can we talk about the real hero of the movie: Baton Trooper? Every Stormtrooper should be a Baton Trooper. That dude owned. RIP in piece.
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Dec 18, 2015 12:54
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Vanderdeath posted:Thinking back on the movie, can we talk about the real hero of the movie: Baton Trooper? He kicked butt. I'm hoping to see Luke take on like five of them in the next movie.
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Dec 18, 2015 12:54
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Agh I totally forgot about the spoiler thread. I think I worked so hard on avoiding spoilers that I blocked the existence of that thread from my brain for a few weeks.. I describe Ren as "pathetic" half-flippantly, but also because for all the power he wields, he is clearly, emotionally stunted as hell. He throws tantrums and lets his anger get the best of him, punishing his subordinates out of rage instead of discipline. He's immediately jealous of Rey. And he clearly has a history of letting these personal issues get in the way of his work, because Hux is able to voice that concern. His heart and soul are weak, as opposed to Rey and Finn, whose hearts and souls are strong. He's very much a reflection of Anakin in that regard but while Anakin fell because he wanted to protect his loved ones too much, Ren seems to have fallen because he hated his loved ones too much. It's...well. Pathetic. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 12:57
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