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Have a hopefully straightforward question about some really old credit card debt my wife has from when she was 17-18 - which was 8+ years ago. She had a card that had a balance of about $200, and she never paid it (self admittedly, a totally idiotic move, but she learned from her parents who have shifted credit card debt around for years before loosing everything they owned). Anywho, you know what happens to unpaid CC debt. About 3 years ago we decided to find it and pay it off, she hadn't received letters or notifications about it for many years at that point. We could not find it anywhere. We pulled her credit report and it wasn't even on there, and I think we even pulled a second one to check. She even tried calling the previous collections agency as well as the card, but they couldn't locate the debt records. So it seemed like that 6 year point had hit and it wouldn't really come up again. So yesterday we got a letter in the mail from a collections agency, saying the debt could be paid off in 4 easy payments of $41! With a few minutes of googling we found out this places buys super old debt, and is apparently really lovely about it in general. The agency is First National Collections Bureau, and there are lots of forum posts saying not to pay it (similar situations to ours), its a scam, they have an F from the BBB, etc etc.They seem to buy debt that is so old that it's off your credit report and try to collect on it. I've never had to deal with debt collection so I'm wondering what we should do next? Should we pay their payments, or just ignore it since it's so old and doesn't seem to be impacting her credit at this point? Thanks!
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Dec 18, 2015 15:47
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What state are you in? If you're past the statute of limitations, you're probably fine.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:00
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Don't make payments on debt that the collection agency isn't even confident enough (or entitled) to post to your credit report.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:04
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Well we actually just pulled her credit report and its on there. All $800+ of it, in all its glory. It 100% was not the last time we looked. We're in AZ, and I'm pretty sure 6 years is the statute of limitations. Same advice and just avoid until it falls off again? We're not planning on buying a house for many years (5, maybe more), and don't have any other loan plans for the immediate future. I have a score in the high 700s, but only have it because of good CC habits (no loans ever, etc), so we're not planning on using credit heavily in the future either. We'll just save for big down payments I guess!
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Dec 18, 2015 16:11
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Iron Lung posted:Well we actually just pulled her credit report and its on there. All $800+ of it, in all its glory. It 100% was not the last time we looked. We're in AZ, and I'm pretty sure 6 years is the statute of limitations. Same advice and just avoid until it falls off again? We're not planning on buying a house for many years (5, maybe more), and don't have any other loan plans for the immediate future. I have a score in the high 700s, but only have it because of good CC habits (no loans ever, etc), so we're not planning on using credit heavily in the future either. We'll just save for big down payments I guess! Dispute it.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:36
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The Mandingo posted:Dispute it. To be more specific, send the collection company and the credit reporting companies a request by certified mail for proof the debt is yours. There are form letters for this everywhere. Give them 30 days, and when they don't prove the debt is yours (there is no way they have any valid proof that it is yours) dispute it with the credit reporting agencies. Keep all records of any calls and letters after that as they haven't proven the debt is yours and have no rights to try and collect on it. Also, as others have said...check the statutes in your state because posting an incorrect/opening a debt incorrectly on your credit report is also a violation against them.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:41
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So even though it is likely my wife's debt, because it's so old we want them to prove it? I'm not intentionally being obtuse, just want to make sure I'm understanding the situation correctly.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:59
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Iron Lung posted:So even though it is likely my wife's debt, because it's so old we want them to prove it? I'm not intentionally being obtuse, just want to make sure I'm understanding the situation correctly. With it being more than six years old, there's no point in having them validate it. Just write them a certified letter telling them it's a time-barred debt, and that you want all future contact in writing. Additionally, contact the credit bureaus that the debt is appearing on and dispute it for being past the statute of limitations. You're lucky it's six years where you're at. It's Fifteen here. EDIT: Almost forgot. If they re-age the debt in any way, to push it inside the SoL, you've got them on a FCPA violation which is $1,000 in your pocket.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:25
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Iron Lung posted:So even though it is likely my wife's debt, because it's so old we want them to prove it? I'm not intentionally being obtuse, just want to make sure I'm understanding the situation correctly. In Texas, the statute of limitations is four years, so they can't force you to pay back debt older than that. However, the debt itself stays on a credit report for seven years. I say dispute it because it's pretty unlikely that they'll be able to verify it, and you can get it purged off of the wife's credit report. If they can verify it, just wait it out and it should fall off in the next year. Don't pay it back though, unless the statue of limitations in your state means you can actually be sued for it still.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:33
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Generally speaking, you should always ask a debt collector to validate a debt even if you are sure it is yours and valid because 1) it's a legal requirement that they be able to do so, and 2) there are way too many lovely collectors skirting around the law for you to take anyone on good faith. You aren't just verifying a debt is yours (which you may be fairly confident of) but also that the people contacting you have the right to collect on it. Sometimes debts get badly recorded or even duplicated, and if you just pay the first people to call you about it you can have another agency turn up later trying to collect on the same debt they think they own - and now what if they are right and the first people didn't actually have the right to collect?
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Dec 18, 2015 17:38
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Thanks all, this really helps clarify. AZ is 6 years, I just checked. Dumb question, but if we move does that change or does it depend on the state where the debt was originally incurred? Ashcans, thanks for explaining so clearly. That was pretty much the exact scenario I was imagining happening if we just went ahead and paid it. Looks like we'll be sending out some letters!
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Dec 18, 2015 18:57
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Iron Lung posted:Thanks all, this really helps clarify. AZ is 6 years, I just checked. Dumb question, but if we move does that change or does it depend on the state where the debt was originally incurred? It should be where the debt originated, but I'd get this all figured out before moving...shitcan collection companies love sending stuff to old addresses to win judgments (yes it is illegal, but only if they get caught by someone that knows).
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Dec 21, 2015 16:56
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Iron Lung posted:Thanks all, this really helps clarify. AZ is 6 years, I just checked. Dumb question, but if we move does that change or does it depend on the state where the debt was originally incurred? This is a complicated question that involves both the statute of limitations of the states involved as well as their procedural choice of law rules. So it depends. 6 years is definitely on the long end for statute of limitations for credit card debt so there won't be many worse places to move to.
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Dec 21, 2015 18:38
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OssiansFolly posted:It should be where the debt originated,
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Dec 22, 2015 11:30
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Hotdog In A Hallway posted:It's not. Statute of limitations is based upon your current address. Are you sure about that?
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Dec 22, 2015 14:52
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Hotdog In A Hallway posted:It's not. Statute of limitations is based upon your current address. Yea...that doesn't seem right. Do you have a source for that? Eit: Link for info
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Dec 22, 2015 17:06
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That link clears it up. We'll send out the letters detailed by you guys above, and I won't worry too much about when we move in a year or two!
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Dec 23, 2015 01:49
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Big question here: I have a student loan from Citibank from 2008 that was sold off to debt collector after I missed payments for several months. I entered into an arrangement with said debt collector on Nov 30 to make monthly payments autowithdrawn from my checking account. I just got a letter saying that the debt had been sold to another collector though. I'm pretty inexperienced in dealing with debt collectors, but I'm guessing they aren't allowed to sell off your debt after you've already signed a contract with them and are paying it off. Did they just screw themselves, and how do I take advantage of this?
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Dec 29, 2015 00:58
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Valicious posted:I'm pretty inexperienced in dealing with debt collectors, but I'm guessing they aren't allowed to sell off your debt after you've already signed a contract with them and are paying it off. Did they just screw themselves, and how do I take advantage of this? Debt can be sold and resold. That you have made some payments does not usually make a difference (apart from reducing the amount now owed, that is). But student loans are a special sort of debt. Nolo has a very brief introduction to private student loan debt collection here; additionally, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a section devoted to student loan issues, including a student loan complaint form. You may have some options available to you that you wouldn't ordinarily, though also keep in mind that student loans (private or federal) are nearly impossible to get out of repaying. In any case, you might want to contact the first debt collection agency about your automatic payment withdrawal, seeing as how they're not the owners of the debt anymore.
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Dec 29, 2015 11:28
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I'm not sure if this goes here, but hey. If a random person with debt gave a fake phone number to her financial institutions and numerous debt collectors have been trying to get ahold of her through that fake number, is there a way to get them ALL to stop? Because that fake phone number was mine, and they have been calling me from dozens of different numbers for nearly 4 freaking years, "Melissa Trevino" you bitch. Is there a national stop-calling-me list for situations like this, or do I have to change my number/wait another 3 years for it all to fall off Melissa's credit report (if that's even how it works) ??
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Dec 30, 2015 16:53
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drat Bananas posted:Is there a national stop-calling-me list for situations like this Haha nope. Debt collection agencies are nearly completely unregulated in the USA. All you can do is ask each specific firm to stop calling and then sue if they don't. As soon as they kick the can down the hallway to the next "agency" that gets reset. This is an area where Congress should have stepped in years ago.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:11
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drat Bananas posted:I'm not sure if this goes here, but hey. Yes. It is illegal to contact someone else regarding someone else's debt. Get the addresses of the debt collectors, tell them your number is not this person's number and you don't know that person, tell them to stop contacting you or you will be forced to take legal action, and then send them a cease and desist letter certified mail. If they contact you AFTER that keep track of each phone call they make after you get proof they got your letter in order to sue them under the FDCPA. If they want to be assholes you may as well get some money out of the deal.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:13
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Also be prepared for them to hang up on you when you attempt to identify their address. I settled a case this year with a "company" that hung up on me 21 times for asking for their address so I could mail them a C&D. Roughly 2 out of 3 companies will act shady like this.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:18
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Also, many of these people calling are not real companies, do not own the debts in question, will not cooperate with you, and bought the victims ssn and details in a parking lot transaction on a thumbdrive. No I'm not making this up.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:20
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Fuuuuuuuuck.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:30
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drat Bananas posted:Fuuuuuuuuck. Don't get discouraged! It will take a little work from you, but a violation is worth $1,000. A lawyer is going to take like half, right RevMoo? If you have 4 companies calling for shady poo poo then you have potentially $2,000 on the horizon. If you get the documentation almost any lawyer will jump on this chance.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:45
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I guess I will start asking for their information when they call, I'm not convinced they are all the same company though. Usually when I say to stop calling they do listen, but it picks up again in a month or two because I assume they've sold it to somebody else who is now trying. If I were a shady company I would sell off the useless phone number to rid my hands of it, too.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:40
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OssiansFolly posted:Don't get discouraged! It will take a little work from you, but a violation is worth $1,000. A lawyer is going to take like half, right RevMoo? If you have 4 companies calling for shady poo poo then you have potentially $2,000 on the horizon. If you get the documentation almost any lawyer will jump on this chance. Nah lawyer fees are in addition. They usually settle for 800-1000 or so. Definitely document like crazy and sue if you can. It's easy. What's not easy is stopping the calls, especially when it's actual scammers calling that you cannot sue because no lawyer will waste their time suing fake collection agencies.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:56
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OssiansFolly posted:Yes. It is illegal to contact someone else regarding someone else's debt. Get the addresses of the debt collectors, tell them your number is not this person's number and you don't know that person, tell them to stop contacting you or you will be forced to take legal action, and then send them a cease and desist letter certified mail. If they contact you AFTER that keep track of each phone call they make after you get proof they got your letter in order to sue them under the FDCPA. If they want to be assholes you may as well get some money out of the deal. No it is not. They can call whoever they want. They're allowed to do this for "research." Yes, it's lovely. What they cannot do is disclose information about a person's debt to someone else. The FDCPA also has some vague rules about inconvenient contact, but again the burden is on you to show it's inconvenient. If you tell them not to contact you about this person's debt again and they do, then you've got a violation. Again it's up to you to show what they're doing, if you do decide to sue, or to get them to stop. drat Bananas, see if you can get their mailing address from them next time they call, or try and look it up from the phone numbers. With that you can send a "do not contact" request in writing. This page has some info for you: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/askcfpb/1411/how-do-i-get-debt-collector-stop-calling-me-if-its-not-my-debt.html
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Dec 30, 2015 21:11
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AuntBuck posted:No it is not. They can call whoever they want. They're allowed to do this for "research." Yes, it's lovely. What they cannot do is disclose information about a person's debt to someone else. The FDCPA also has some vague rules about inconvenient contact, but again the burden is on you to show it's inconvenient. If you tell them not to contact you about this person's debt again and they do, then you've got a violation. Again it's up to you to show what they're doing, if you do decide to sue, or to get them to stop. "The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) expressly regulates calls to third parties in section 15 U.S.C. 1692b(3), stating that a debt collector shall “not communicate with any such person more than once unless requested to do so by such person or unless the debt collector reasonably believes that the earlier response of such person is erroneous or incomplete and that such person now has correct or complete location information.”" It is right there. Once you tell them you aren't the person they are looking for and serve them a cease and desist letter they are done. Even IF you are the person they are looking for if you serve them a cease and desist letter they must stop telephone communication and continue in writing. Either way it stops the phone calls or puts them in a spot to be sued.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:51
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OssiansFolly posted:more than once Read your own poo poo. Have you ever actually dealt with a debt collector, at all? There's the law, and then there's what actually happens.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:58
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AuntBuck posted:Read your own poo poo. Have you ever actually dealt with a debt collector, at all? There's the law, and then there's what actually happens. Right, the law says they can't contact you more than once after you notify them of the incorrect number. Do you even read what you type? You came in acting like there isn't such a law to stop them from contacting you more than once, and then comment that there is a law but they don't care about it. The discussion isn't whether debt collection companies are pieces of poo poo that break the laws all the time or not. This is a discussion to educate people that they DO break the law and what you can do about it. Obviously laws exist to stop a behavior so of course that behavior had to exist in the first place. I've dealt with lots of debt collectors both mine and my family's. I've fought and won against 2 credit cards and 1 Dell Financial account. I'm very aware of the lovely tactics they use, but if he wants people to stop calling then he needs to take the proper steps to stop them.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:09
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And giving bad advice is not the way to do that. It is not straight up illegal for a debt collector to call anyone, as you posted. I never said there weren't laws? You have some reading comprehension issues. And you can gaslight what this "discussion" is about all you want. Just stop posting bad advice. drat Bananas, do your own research. Half the people in this thread don't know what they're talking about.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:17
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AuntBuck posted:And giving bad advice is not the way to do that. It is not straight up illegal for a debt collector to call anyone, as you posted. I never said there weren't laws? You have some reading comprehension issues. And you can gaslight what this "discussion" is about all you want. Just stop posting bad advice. Calm down. You're splitting hairs over terminology/semantics. His advice was relatively solid. He even acknowledged that they are allowed to call the "wrong" person once.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:22
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I was a victim of a drunk driving accident, and I got evicted from my apartment while I was in the hospital. It's kind of hard to write a check while in a coma. I lost my deposit which is lovely, but my landlord wanted another $120 from me and sent it to collections. I have a personal injury lawyer, and I was told by my girlfriend's brother that he should be able to get this off my credit. I spoke to him about this, and I gave him a copy of my credit reports from TransUnion and Equifax. I followed up with him, but he said he hasn't gotten around to this yet. My question for the thread is: can he really get this removed? I'm just a little curious about the process, and my lawyer doesn't really explain these things to me. I'm really hoping he can get this removed though, having it on my credit is gonna make it near impossible for me to rent again. And there's no way I'm paying it. I'm indignant as heck about losing my deposit, and then having to pay more. No loving way, that dude should be paying me back my deposit.
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Jan 6, 2016 16:06
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Ludwig van Halen posted:I was a victim of a drunk driving accident, and I got evicted from my apartment while I was in the hospital. It's kind of hard to write a check while in a coma. I mean, why do you owe $120? There are lots of questions here. I am assuming he is charging you some amount due to moving your stuff for you, or storing it, or breaking lease, or ...? He can't arbitrarily charge you for something that you didn't agree to as far as I know... I think you need to find out what the debt is for. Once you know that someone here may be able to offer better advice.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:18
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OssiansFolly posted:I mean, why do you owe $120? There are lots of questions here. I am assuming he is charging you some amount due to moving your stuff for you, or storing it, or breaking lease, or ...? He can't arbitrarily charge you for something that you didn't agree to as far as I know... Yeah, honestly I don't know what the bill was for. It wasn't for moving because my family moved my stuff out. I didn't even live there long enough to damage anything. I'm guessing he kept my security deposit as a months rent and the $120 is the late fee + cleaning or key replacement or whatever. No clue. He called me one time requesting the money, but he didn't say what it was for. Like "I'll give you one chance to pay this before I send it to collections". I told him he could shove it, and he insulted my mom for having the gall to get my lawyer involved while I was in the hospital, so I hung up on him.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:48
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Ludwig van Halen posted:Yeah, honestly I don't know what the bill was for. In this case, I'd tell you to contact the local Renting/Tenant Advocacy Group. Most cities have them if you live in a fairly suburban/urban area. I've used them in the past where I live for stuff like this because they know tenant laws and regulations which is what it sounds like you need in addition to getting this off your credit. Someone else may be able to chime in, but you can always go the route of sending a certified letter to him and the credit agencies requesting proof that the debt is yours. He'd have to send you some kind of proof that you owe him a debt then...
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Jan 6, 2016 22:15
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OssiansFolly posted:Someone else may be able to chime in, but you can always go the route of sending a certified letter to him and the credit agencies requesting proof that the debt is yours. He'd have to send you some kind of proof that you owe him a debt then... FDCPA stuff doesn't apply to original creditors. Additionally since he's sold the debt, this really has nothing to do with the LL anymore. You might want to go after him for your deposit, but that's separate from the (alleged) debt. Also CRAs don't handle validation for the most part, only disputes where you provide proof the record isn't accurate. Basically, once a debt is sold, the original creditor is completely and totally out of the picture. Some places will use collection agencies to pursue debts but not sell them, but those are rare and it's usually only like utility companies or hospitals etc. Demand proof from the collector. If they provide anything (unlikely), rip their claims apart in a certified letter while also telling them to cease contact. Dispute with the CRAs with as much documentation as you can, and see were things go from there. Make sure you make them give you proof that they own the debt in addition to proof that the debt is valid. Demand signed, itemized contracts etc. Be a pain in the rear end to them and respond to their responses with demands for more proof, etc. Most likely they'll go silent once they realize you're not just going to give them cash. It's unlikely they'll remove it from your credit either, so you'll want to approach the CRAs to dispute the records on their end.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:23
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OssiansFolly posted:In this case, I'd tell you to contact the local Renting/Tenant Advocacy Group. Most cities have them if you live in a fairly suburban/urban area. I've used them in the past where I live for stuff like this because they know tenant laws and regulations which is what it sounds like you need in addition to getting this off your credit. I'd prolly send a DV first and then find a tenancy law lawyer.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:24
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