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HotCanadianChick posted:Waiting for our dinner and drinks to arrive and the movie to start: To each their own but this movie meant to be seen on the biggest and loudest screen possible with as many people as possible.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:15
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Alright, this was great. I think maybe it was a bit too busy, since there were all of the new characters to introduce and all of the old ones to bring back in, but that's forgivable. A New Hope also benefited from a more satisfying ending -- after all, it had to tie things up pretty neatly since there was no guarantee there'd be sequels. I did laugh a bit at the credits, since Mark Hamill is listed second and didn't say a loving thing. I like to think that his and Harrison Ford's credit listings got flopped back and forth a dozen times as their respective agents argued, "But he's LUKE loving SKYWALKER!" and "But Harrison ACTUALLY HAD TO MEMORIZE LINES!"
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Dec 19, 2015 02:15
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josh04 posted:He also somewhat bafflingly implies that Lucas is unaware that a prequel is really a sequel. Well, he clearly understands how prequels can function as sequels, but Lucas's intention was to construct the prequels in such a way that they could also function as what they are ostensibly supposed to be--the first three chapters in a six-part saga: quote:"If you see them in order, it completely twists things about. A lot of the tricks of IV, V and VI no longer exist. The real struggle of the twins to save their father becomes very apparent, whereas it didn't exist at all the first time [audiences saw Episodes IV, V and VI]. Now Darth Vader is a tragic character who's lost everything. He's basically a bitter old man in a suit. 'I am your father' was a real shock. Now it's a real reward. Finally, the son knows what we already know. It doesn't really matter because the whole thing is cyclical anyway. You can watch the story through in order from I-VI, but when you start the cycle over again, it means that I-III now follow IV-VI. And vice versa. That's why it's so wrongheaded to complain about the prequels spoiling the surprises of the original films. That's the entire conceit behind subtitling the first movie "Episode IV." The only reason the originals' plot twists work is because you came in during the middle of the story. It's kind of like a joke.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:16
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Alright, this was great. I think maybe it was a bit too busy, since there were all of the new characters to introduce and all of the old ones to bring back in, but that's forgivable. A New Hope also benefited from a more satisfying ending -- after all, it had to tie things up pretty neatly since there was no guarantee there'd be sequels. I did laugh a bit at the credits, since Mark Hamill is listed second and didn't say a loving thing. I like to think that his and Harrison Ford's credit listings got flopped back and forth a dozen times as their respective agents argued, "But he's LUKE loving SKYWALKER!" and "But Harrison ACTUALLY HAD TO MEMORIZE LINES!" Pretty sure there is no argument Harrison Ford is more famous then Mark Hamill, who pretty much just became a voice actor. A phenomenal voice actor, mind, but still.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:18
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rey owned, kylo ren owned, poe kind of owned and i wish there was more of him. finn felt like baggage a lot. maybe replace finn with poe. hopefully viii is less cluttered
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Dec 19, 2015 02:25
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I can't deny that makes a lot of sense while simultaneously rolling my eyes at that line of argument because it feels like the gateway to a bunch of people saying this movie is utter garbage compared to the much smarter, more visually interesting, better directed prequels and that's an even more absurd narrative than the one about how the prequels are the worst films ever made Is it okay if I think that the prequels are good films that are smarter and better-plotted than this movie; that they have a distinctive visual style that's no better or worse; and that George got solid performances out of his actors, but sometimes (in TPM and AOTC) he squandered those performances by playing up classical archetypes at the expense of the character or vice versa? For example, much of Anakin's story in AOTC is intended to be a classical courtly romance where the gallant knight seeks to prove himself to the noble And Jar Jar has the opposite problem: he fills a perfectly fine archetype (the wise fool), but George got carried away with the character's gimmick. Meanwhile, I think this film was very fun, put together some awesome action scenes, and had engaging main characters. However, it had an unmemorable score, it missed out on the world-building that Star Wars usually does so well, and it mishandled minor characters like Phasma and Snoke. Zoran fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 02:25
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The biggest compliment I can give this film is that I cared more about the new characters than the returning ones. Like as much as I geek out over Han Solo, any scene without Rey had me thinking, "Let's get back to what Rey's doing." Edit: Also the prequels might have actually been good if we had Adam Driver playing Anakin with basically the exact same characterization as Kylo Ren. qbert fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 02:30
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Bongo Bill posted:It's more likely that you dislike the generally well-realized aesthetic of that trilogy, where props were constructed with a smooth and bright style, and the shots were lit evenly and framed at a moderate distance like a stage rather than up-close and high-contrast. The result of this colorful, stately design was to make physical effects that looked less "real" than the computer-generated ones, a highly significant decision in a movie about deception and illusion. Suuuuuure. Wandle Cax posted:I see you are confused, The Force Awakens is the sequel to Return of the Jedi, not Revenge of the Sith. Consult the episode numbers for further clarification. Well it's a sequel to both movies, and every other previous Star Wars movie.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:33
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It isn't that Anakin's dialogue is very poetic that's the problem, it's that it's just bad poetry. In fact, it makes me cringe to here it called poetry at all. Lucas has a tin ear.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:33
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I actually realized the movie was working for me during the scene between Kylo and Rey when they are force reading each other. That scene handled wrong would have been incredibly silly, since half of it is just people making strained faces at each other, but instead of laughing awkwardly I was completely tuned in.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:42
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Zoran posted:prequel stuff I think you're pretty spot-on, in some ways; the bits about "getting carried away" with Jar Jar and the clash between the way Anakin's dialogue is written and how it comes off are very important. There was clearly an intent to make the Old Republic seem like a grand, ancient thing in its death throes with all the Shakespearean grandeur something like that calls for, and then people (Lucas?) correctly identifying that making Star Wars movies nothing but that would be bad and make them uninteresting to children so there was a reactionary kind of cartoony humor beyond anything in the OT as well with stuff like Jar Jar's antics. The end result are films that have a wildly inconsistent tone as the actors struggle to nail the loving weird dialogue and pin down their characters, the filmmakers struggle to balance trade disputes with family-friendly gags, and everybody is just trying to pull all the disparate stuff going on together. I certainly see them as more ambitious films than Episode VII, which deliberately plays it safe and formulaic, but I think they fail at most of their ambitions and are ultimately sloppy, jarring films as a result. The romantic stuff in Episode II in particular is one of the most catastrophic examples, and features some of the worst dialogue and inexplicable plotting I've ever seen in its released form. There is absolutely no reason other than "destiny" and the necessities of plot for someone like Padme to be attracted to Anakin, a virginal creep she used to babysit who talks about how much easier everything would be if he had absolute power and slaughtering people like animals. Having the young Darth Vader be a repulsive, childish, selfish character is fine, but renders the love story unbelievable and makes Obi Wan's fond rapport in the prequels and memories in the OT confusing. Baku fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 02:46
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...and he was a good friend.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:52
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qbert posted:Edit: Also the prequels might have actually been good if we had Adam Driver playing Anakin with basically the exact same characterization as Kylo Ren.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:53
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CountFosco posted:It isn't that Anakin's dialogue is very poetic that's the problem, it's that it's just bad poetry. In fact, it makes me cringe to here it called poetry at all. Lucas has a tin ear. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0466641/quotes quote:George Lucas: [about Francis Ford Coppola] Before I met him, I couldn't write a word, and now I'm the King of Wooden Dialogue. 
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Dec 19, 2015 02:57
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:And if JJ had directed them and if the DP for this one had been the DP on those too. But keep John Williams' score for the prequels, which was better than his score for this one.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:58
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Did you all notice the ring leia was wearing at the end when she hugged that one person.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:03
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qbert posted:But keep John Williams' score for the prequels, which was better than his score for this one. I don't know, I'm listening to "The March of the Resistance" on Spotify right now, and I'm a fan. Funny how recognizable he is, there's definitely some DNA from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in here.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:04
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HotCanadianChick posted:Waiting for our dinner and drinks to arrive and the movie to start: That screen is tiny lol. I saw TFA in a 70' Marcus Ultrascreen DLX Dolby Atmos theater last night. The chairs were big electronic recliners, and I had 2 blue moons and shared a pizza with my godfather. 6 other friends and family members I was sitting with did the same. teagone fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 03:08
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euphronius posted:Did you all notice the ring leia was wearing at the end when she hugged that one person. yeah seemed irrelevant to anything though; purely for decoration
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Dec 19, 2015 03:10
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thathonkey posted:yeah seemed irrelevant to anything though; purely for decoration Yeah accidental. She must have just worn it for whatever or maybe it was Carrie fishers.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:11
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qbert posted:Also the prequels might have actually been good if we had Adam Driver playing Anakin with basically the exact same characterization as Kylo Ren. Prequels would have been better if Anakin was played by Heath Ledger channeling Ulrich von Liechtenstein from the start. Anakin should have been the loveable rogue archetype imo.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:16
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I enjoyed the movie a lot, the new characters are all solid and it injected a sense of fun into the proceedings that's been missing for a while. With that said, I think my biggest gripe is that the movie withholds so much information from us (details presumably to be revealed later) that it undermines the stakes because it's not clear what anyone is trying to accomplish. What is the point of the Resistance? If they're just a tool the Republic is using to combat the New Order in occupied systems, then why doesn't the Republic just use their regular military? Is the Republic technically supposed to be at peace with the New Order? How does blowing up one planet cripple the Republic, and what does that mean for the Resistance and the galaxy? Why is it so important to everyone - Resistance and New Order - that they find Luke Skywalker? I know he's Luke Skywalker, but he's just one dude, he can't single-handedly determine the outcome of a war. I understand the desire to stay away from having to talk about politics, but as it is there's never really a sense of what's at stake on the larger scale. If they didn't want to delve into politics, they could have just written a less complex scenario. But that's mostly forgivable because the characters' personal stakes are well established. There are other pieces of information that are conspicuously withheld from us that are kind of concerning because I don't care and can't imagine a reveal that would be worth the buildup. Namely: -Rey's lineage -Snoke's identity/origin
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Dec 19, 2015 03:21
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teagone posted:Prequels would have been better if Anakin was played by Heath Ledger channeling Ulrich von Liechtenstein from the start. Anakin should have been the loveable rogue archetype imo. Not everything has to be Han Solo.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:21
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Frackie Robinson posted:
He kinda did before though. Almost single-handedly.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:23
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CelticPredator posted:He kinda did before though. Almost single-handedly. That's true in a sense, but I don't many people would realize it
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Dec 19, 2015 03:25
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HotCanadianChick posted:Waiting for our dinner and drinks to arrive and the movie to start: No, having servers milling about the entire movie is distracting and the food and drinks are always mediocre and overpriced but its cool that you didn't have to see any kids having fun and get to drink alcohol like a grown up though.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:26
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Cnut the Great posted:Not everything has to be Han Solo. You're wrong. Well, maybe not everything. But the prequels lacking a Han Solo type character was definitely one of its major shortcomings.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:27
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teagone posted:You're wrong. Well, maybe not everything. But the prequels lacking a Han Solo type character was definitely one of its major shortcomings. Jar jar???
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Dec 19, 2015 03:28
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euphronius posted:Jar jar??? Um, excuse me. Jar Jar was not a rogue with a heart of gold/antihero. He was just straight up comic relief 
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Dec 19, 2015 03:29
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Bail could've been that character. He was doing the Lando thing quite a bit when he was hastily assembling a rebellion at the end of the last one. But, alas, he was not.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:37
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Zombies' Downfall posted:The end result are films that have a wildly inconsistent tone as the actors struggle to nail the loving weird dialogue and pin down their characters, the filmmakers struggle to balance trade disputes with family-friendly gags, and everybody is just trying to pull all the disparate stuff going on together. Can I ask where you think the films struggle with tonal consistency? The major example that jumps out to me is how the final battle in TPM is half silly and half grimly serious. Other than that, I felt that TPM was pretty light-hearted throughout but had a sort of nagging unease, which is pretty good for a film where our heroes appear to win but unwittingly put the bad guy in power. AOTC is entirely about the failings of the old Jedi order, and I think it strikes the right level of grimness while keeping a bit of banter and slapstick. ROTS makes a nice transition from bombast in the last glory days of the Republic to crushing pain and grief. The one time I noticed an actor really struggling to handle a character was with Natalie in AOTC, and I don't really blame her for that. But I'm also in that minority that doesn't mind Jake Lloyd in TPM, and I think pretty much all the politicking is well-handled, so maybe I'm a robot.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:38
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Bongo Bill posted:Bail could've been that character. He was doing the Lando thing quite a bit when he was hastily assembling a rebellion at the end of the last one. But, alas, he was not. I would have totally been down with that actually.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:40
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A chance to reflect.. Star wars is popular, making money, and going to be a big deal for at least the next decade. If you're in this thread that should make you happy
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Dec 19, 2015 03:42
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Saw it today and really enjoyed it and definitely think it is equal to or just a bit worse than ROTJ (though I like that one more than most). I really only had two complaints. The first being the scene with the smugglers. I just felt like the whole thing was lifted right out of a Guardians of the Galaxy. If Han had just talked his way out of it, then fine, it establishes what he has been doing. But the second group showing up and then the whole run from them and those creatures just kind of slowed down the whole movie. Though I will say, I enjoy having canonical proof that Han is actually a really lovely smuggler and that Jabba was right  The other other real complaint is I didn't like the whole R2D2 saves the day and reactivates for no reason. I mean maybe Luke triggered something after sensing those planets get destroyed, but until we get more info in future movies, it just felt way too convenient even for Star Wars. But I will say that I loved Kylo Ren. He was an extremely fun character as you come to realize he isn't quite the bad rear end he pretends to be. He is deeply conflicted and hates himself for it, and as someone said he is a great mirror for Anakin. some of the people I saw it with hated him because he was such a bitch, but I thought that was what made him a great character over all of the lovely Siths from the prequels. Also, Daisy Riddley acted the poo poo out of that whole movie and really carried it. She is gonna be one hell of a star. Bottom line, if you see one action movie this year, see Mad Max. If you see a second, see Star Wars.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:45
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hhhat posted:A chance to reflect.. Star wars is popular, making money, and going to be a big deal for at least the next decade. If you're in this thread that should make you happy EA has the game rights
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Dec 19, 2015 03:45
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Gamerofthegame posted:Pretty sure there is no argument Harrison Ford is more famous then Mark Hamill, who pretty much just became a voice actor. They should leverage that to have Hamill voice a bunch of random CGI or costumed aliens and robots and poo poo in the next few movies, and have at least one scene where where Luke interacts with another character voiced by Hamill. gently caress it, a whole bar of dumb aliens voiced by Hamill.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:45
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Gamerofthegame posted:EA has the game rights I think battlefront is wonderful and I'm literally Hitler for that Please make a VR flying game ea I will give you all my money
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Dec 19, 2015 03:49
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:It is a plot sequel to Return of the Jedi and a thematic sequel, a response if you will, to Revenge of the Sith. There was a big deal made about this in the marketing, for instance. On top of this, it turns out Force Awakens is a remake of both A New Hope and Phantom Menace, mashed together. This is a film where Republic still exists but fuckin sucks, the Jedi are failures, and the baddie is transparently a combination of Anakin and Darth Maul.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:49
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khwarezm posted:They should leverage that to have Hamill voice a bunch of random CGI or costumed aliens and robots and poo poo in the next few movies, and have at least one scene where where Luke interacts with another character voiced by Hamill. gently caress it, a whole bar of dumb aliens voiced by Hamill. Sadly apparently he really hasn't been able to do it for a while now. I know his Joker voice died like five years ago. 
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Dec 19, 2015 03:51
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Gamerofthegame posted:Sadly apparently he really hasn't been able to do it for a while now. Has his voice acting gotten worse or something?
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