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i agree with timb. but i also think that the country the countries apple earns this money in should tax apple at a really high rate. and I think that apple should just be taxed out the rear end domestically at all times.
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Dec 19, 2015 00:06
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:i agree with timb. this but all companies
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Dec 19, 2015 00:24
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also google should be treated as a utility
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Dec 19, 2015 00:25
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The Management posted:it's apple's and any other company's option on whether or not to bring their foreign earnings (after local taxes) into the US. when they do this they need to pay huge taxes on it, which is why nobody does it.
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Dec 19, 2015 00:41
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so why don't they just make the tax rate for overseas poo poo 25% to match ireland? do the "bleed the beast" republicans just not want the government making enough to fund essential services? or is it just that this congress can't do anything but name parks and poo poo.
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Dec 19, 2015 01:27
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uh try more like 2% if u want to match ireland lol if there is a repatriation holiday it will probably be like 10% (the last one was 5%). if theres comprehensive tax reform it will be 0% (at least going forward) cause america wont be taxing worldwide income
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Dec 19, 2015 01:34
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most voters would be rightfully incensed (even republican voters) about a massive tax break on repatriations. both parties benefit from the current situation where repatriation holidays occur every so often with cover from both sides and the rest of the time everyone can point at the other side and scream about how terrible they are
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Dec 19, 2015 02:01
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allow corporations to repatriate overseas earnings at 0% if they convert it to livestock eagerly awaiting the conga line of gigantic boats full of goats, cows, sheep
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Dec 19, 2015 02:09
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voters would be angry because they don't understand how taxes work, meanwhile another company will move its headquarters to the Cayman Islands and never have to worry about this bullshit. Tim said he would be happy with 15%
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Dec 19, 2015 02:10
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Toady posted:what was edited out? no way to know, but presumably more of john siracusa pointing out the marco is an old man yelling at a cloud
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Dec 19, 2015 03:24
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DuckConference posted:no way to know, but presumably more of john siracusa pointing out the marco is an old man yelling at a butt "no way to know" the show is broadcast live
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Dec 19, 2015 03:25
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gently caress why can't hypercritical just come back? Marco and Casey are so loving terrible.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:39
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cutting siracusa's take is a strange thing to do. he's the draw of the show. casey contributes practically nothing, and marco pontificates without experience or research to back it
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Dec 19, 2015 03:55
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Pinterest Mom posted:"no way to know" It would take a special kind of autism to record ATP, or even listen to that show live; and then post the results.
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Dec 19, 2015 05:24
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Pinterest Mom posted:"no way to know" i had no idea because i don't care that much
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Dec 19, 2015 07:46
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you don't get to take advantage of the upper hand the US gov provides you in international trade and then turn around and bitch about how it's not fair to pay taxes on those earnings.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:27
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got my new 2015 15 inch retina MacBook Pro. it is pretty nice.
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Dec 19, 2015 13:09
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Dirk Pitt posted:got my new 2015 15 inch retina MacBook Pro. it is pretty nice. how does yospos look on the retina screen?
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Dec 19, 2015 13:27
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Necc0 posted:you don't get to take advantage of the upper hand the US gov provides you in international trade and then turn around and bitch about how it's not fair to pay taxes on those earnings.
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Dec 19, 2015 14:10
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Necc0 posted:you don't get to take advantage of the upper hand the US gov provides you in international trade and then turn around and bitch about how it's not fair to pay taxes on those earnings.
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Dec 19, 2015 14:19
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tim cook getting mad and saying "we pay every penny we owe" when being accused of tax avoidance is disingenuous as gently caress. the ceo of apple knows the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
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Dec 19, 2015 14:20
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he is absolutely right though. They pay what is owed and they have no further obligations beyond that, whether legal or ethical. the government is not a charity, they set the rules and take what they want. whether you personally feel they should pay higher taxes is another issue but it's your problem not tims one interesting thing is that there is already a mechanism established to prevent corporations from acquiring huge cash hoards called the accumulated earnings tax. however it is not applied to publicly held companies due to the fact that they don't really accrue benefits just for one person.the us has a really weird system of corporate taxation
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Dec 19, 2015 14:44
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Dislike button posted:he is absolutely right though. They pay what is owed and they have no further obligations beyond that, whether legal or ethical. the government is not a charity, they set the rules and take what they want. whether you personally feel they should pay higher taxes is another issue but it's your problem not tims read that quote again quote:Rose: Here’s what they concluded: “Apple is engaged in a sophisticated scheme to pay little or no corporate taxes on $74 billion in revenue held overseas.” apple is engaged in a sophisticated scheme to pay little to no corporate tax. that's not incompatible with them saying they pay every penny they owe. tim is getting mad at someone pointing out something he's actually doing.
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Dec 19, 2015 14:47
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he is calling it political crap because that's what it is. "sophisticated scheme" is juat a politically charged way of saying "doing taxes legally like every other company" but people cry about it because they think it should be more
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Dec 19, 2015 14:51
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"sophisticated scheme to avoid taxes" is a perfectly neutral and factual descriptor.
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Dec 19, 2015 15:05
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Pinterest Mom posted:"sophisticated scheme to avoid taxes" is a perfectly neutral and factual descriptor. lomarf is a perfectly neutral and factual way of describing my reaction to this post
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Dec 19, 2015 15:06
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 i wouldn't think twice of saying I crossed a state line to avoid sales taxes. that would be an unsophisticated scheme to avoid taxes. Apple structuring its company specifically to minimise tax exposure is a sophisticated scheme to avoid taxes.
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Dec 19, 2015 15:11
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Pinterest Mom posted:
I agree but "sophisticated tax planning" is a more neutral way of saying that since "tax avoidance scheme" is pretty obviously trying to appeal to people who don't know the difference between tax avoidance and evasion and "scheme" further implies that this hasn't been legal, run of the mill, established tax planning for multinationals for years Also technically you didn't avoid state taxes you evaded them unless you paid use tax. Which I'm sure everyone here does on their out of state purchases
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Dec 19, 2015 15:30
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spoiler alert: no meaningful tax reform where companies have to pay more tax will ever happen because stocks would collapse into the earths core and the retirement money in the pension funds of hardworking dads everywhere would disappear
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Dec 19, 2015 15:56
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apple should continue squeezing every penny out of the system as they legally can because lol if companies that don't use every loophole possible it only encourages the perpetuation of a broken system using the 'we don't need regulation when we can just rely on goodwill' logic; see also tipping culture in the united states, which incidentally leads to another deeply-traditional derail in yospos lore
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Dec 19, 2015 16:02
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LUBE UP YOUR BUTT posted:apple should continue squeezing every penny out of the system as they legally can because lol if companies that don't use every loophole possible it only encourages the perpetuation of a broken system using the 'we don't need regulation when we can just rely on goodwill' logic; see also tipping culture in the united states, which incidentally leads to another deeply-traditional derail in yospos lore let's talk about car transmissions instead
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Dec 19, 2015 16:12
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yeah the 2 situations are basically that investors would bitch bc they would get lower returns or everyone else would bitch bc their apple products would cost more im honestly not sold on the idea of a corporate income tax anyway, i think the earnings should be distributed and the shareholders should be responsible since they ultimately benefit. but, the earnings will not be distributed under the current system for several reasons including the fact of double taxation on both the income by the corporation and the dividend by the shareholder, the fact that it can't be brought back to the us without being recognized as income. the system as is favors retaining funds verses distributing them and favors debt over equity in many cases since interest is tax deductible. which is why apple and other companies have spent the last few years borrowing money to pay for dividends or stock buy backs instead of using their own cash hoards and incurring taxes. it is kind of funny looking at apples market cap and realizing that its bascially a third cash. also remember that they are only deferring payment on these taxes, not permanently avoiding them
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Dec 19, 2015 16:17
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it is the legal right of every individual and corporation to take any opportunity the law allows to minimize their tax burden. accusing someone of doing this is accusing them of being smart with their money. if the government wants to close some of those avenues, they have the legislative means to do so.
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Dec 19, 2015 16:46
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The Management posted:it is the legal right of every individual and corporation to take any opportunity the law allows to minimize their tax burden. accusing someone of doing this is accusing them of being smart with their money. if the government wants to close some of those avenues, they have the legislative means to do so. username post combo
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Dec 19, 2015 17:23
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The Management posted:it is the legal right of every individual and corporation to take any opportunity the law allows to minimize their tax burden. accusing someone of doing this is accusing them of being smart with their money. if the government wants to close some of those avenues, they have the legislative means to do so. i actually kind of hate this attitude. it's kind of like saying, it is the legal right of every individual and corporation to emit as much CO2 as they need to do business. yeah, it is their legal right, but that does not make it ethical. can't companies make financial and tax decisions because they are ethical the same way they make environmental ones? tim cook has said "if you don't want us doing green stuff, get out of the stock." he could just as well say "if you want a tax avoider, get out of the stock." however, paying 40% on an iPhone with chips from Japan, manufactured in China and then sold in Germany is crazy.
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Dec 19, 2015 17:28
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what incentive does apple have to lose almost half of its overseas money by repatriation? they can get loans at like 2% interest rates and just keep that money overseas to deal with expenses there and wait for the tax code to be fixed. People shouldn't get mad at Apple and Buffet for paying exactly what they are required to pay, they are symptoms of a problem of a lovely tax code that needs to be updated to actually reflect how the modern economy works. I don't think morals can really be applied to tax burdens and stuff
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Dec 19, 2015 18:13
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its not ethical either because 40% of that tax money will go to kill brown ppl
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Dec 19, 2015 18:31
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PleasureKevin posted:i actually kind of hate this attitude. it's kind of like saying, it is the legal right of every individual and corporation to emit as much CO2 as they need to do business. yeah, it is their legal right, but that does not make it ethical. can't companies make financial and tax decisions because they are ethical the same way they make environmental ones? tim cook has said "if you don't want us doing green stuff, get out of the stock." he could just as well say "if you want a tax avoider, get out of the stock." no this analogy doesn't hold up at all. it has nothing to do with ethics and can't be compared to willingly destroying the environment. calling someone a tax avoider is a really stupid term. it's proper financial decision making for me to deduct my mortgage interest, state income taxes, property taxes, etc which the government explicitly allows me to do, and if I instead for some reason just claimed the standard deduction it doesn't mean I am superior morally or ethically it just means I'm bad with money and as a result have overpaid
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Dec 19, 2015 19:33
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Locker Room Zubaz posted:what incentive does apple have to lose almost half of its overseas money by repatriation? they can get loans at like 2% interest rates and just keep that money overseas to deal with expenses there and wait for the tax code to be fixed. People shouldn't get mad at Apple and Buffet for paying exactly what they are required to pay, they are symptoms of a problem of a lovely tax code that needs to be updated to actually reflect how the modern economy works. I don't think morals can really be applied to tax burdens and stuff yep and that's pretty much what Tim Cook is saying, it's political crap to attack them for following the rules when the governments responsibility is to set and enforce those rules. Of course they have better things to do like try to repeal obamacare for 70th time
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Dec 19, 2015 19:35
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LUBE UP YOUR BUTT posted:apple should continue squeezing every penny out of the system as they legally can because lol if companies that don't use every loophole possible it only encourages the perpetuation of a broken system using the 'we don't need regulation when we can just rely on goodwill' logic; see also tipping culture in the united states, which incidentally leads to another deeply-traditional derail in yospos lore lol if you tipping minimum isn't 20% (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 19, 2015 20:15
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