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teagone posted:Lol, that someone is Kylo Ren. I see no reason to think he is, or any reason to hope he is. It's refreshing to have a major character who's just a guy.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:47
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Yeah, Finn never really shows any signs of awakening to anything other to basic compassion over the movie. He's not a remarkably good shot, he can't fly at all, and while he's not useless with a blaster or lightsaber he never shows any ability way more sophisticated than pointing and shooting or swinging a saber like a baseball bat.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:49
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Are we supposed to be concerned with the fate of Captain Phasma? Nobody seems to be really talking about what happened after she unceremoniously disappeared from the movie following her capture and I don't think we're supposed to believe Han or Finn is sadistic enough to actually execute her in a garbage compactor.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:54
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Spiritus Nox posted:I will say, for as much as some of the detractors have complained about 'heart and soul,' this movie certainly seems to have a lot of that. I mean, hell, the biggest theme of the movie I've parsed from it is the power and value of empathy and compassion - it's fundamental to all three of the new main characters and to the emotional climax of the movie (Han reaching out to Ben on the bridge). And the saddest thing about that moment is, it might have actually worked, if Han had said the right things at the moment. We don't know a lot of the relationship there, but from the conflict and torment on Kylo's face, he would have folded if those magic words were said- "you're strong enough," maybe, or "I'm sorry I wasn't there for you" or "Your mother and I miss you." But one of Han's running themes is being bad at showing how he feels, at masking his true emotions, so because he went with fear ("Snoke's using you and will kill you") he only reinforced Kylo's darkness; the lighting here reinforces that theme superbly, being blue and red at the beginning of the conversation then shifting to full red as the Starkiller fired. Han Solo died as he lived- trying to hide his heart of gold. 
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Dec 19, 2015 22:54
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Hmm, how are most of you interpreting that bit during the opening sequence the moment after Finn's companion is killed by Poe, when the editing focuses in on Finn and the music starts swelling and gets more muddling. Is it coincidental that during that state of confusion, Kylo Ren's ship comes into frame? At my first screening, I took that as Finn sensing Kylo Ren's arrival. And then the film almost confirmed that for me when Kylo Ren pauses in his footstep to look over at Finn. On my second screening though, it may have just been clever editing, but to be honest I'm not so sure. I'm cool either way though, because Finn as a character Jedi or not is already fun. I had initially thought Poe was going to be that loveable rogue type, so it was refreshing to see that it turned out to be Finn instead. I was totally NOT expecting Boyega to be that charmingly hilarious in this movie. The film did a good job of subverting my expectations based on the marketing surrounding Finn. Hazo posted:Are we supposed to be concerned with the fate of Captain Phasma? Nobody seems to be really talking about what happened after she unceremoniously disappeared from the movie following her capture and I don't think we're supposed to believe Han or Finn is sadistic enough to actually execute her in a garbage compactor. I don't think so. I just attributed her to being the Boba Fett of this new trilogy, and this was her introduction as being that cool bad buy. She has a more fleshed out role in the upcoming film to some extent though, I believe that was confirmed. teagone fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 22:57
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Man, I just watched Empire for the first time in like 10 years, and it really does blow every single other film in the series out of the water. It's by far the best looking of the films (it looks like the only one that had a real budget outside of the prequels) and everything from the proto-Danny Elfman sounding main theme to the actually good script to the incredible lighting just feels so different to everything that the series was bogged down by afterwards. It's the only one that feels like a hugely cinematic blockbuster movie. I've always ranked ANH higher in my brain but nah, this is the poo poo. Imagine if this style was the direction the series went in. How loving good would that have been?
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Dec 19, 2015 22:58
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Hazo posted:Are we supposed to be concerned with the fate of Captain Phasma? Nobody seems to be really talking about what happened after she unceremoniously disappeared from the movie following her capture and I don't think we're supposed to believe Han or Finn is sadistic enough to actually execute her in a garbage compactor. It's already been revealed well before the movie was released that that character has a much larger role in the later films. I'd like to see her blamed for the destruction of Starkiller base and expelled from the First Order. It gives her the chance to go out on her own and seek revenge against Finn more than likely.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:58
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Finn is just so stoked to have an identity. I agree that the First Order is the Jedi Order. Kidnapping and brainwashing children, fighting for an inadequate idea of peace, upholding the Empire, uneasy with granting a position of importance to a scraggly-headed emotionally unstable loose cannon of a nerd descended from Shmi Skywalker, led by an alien of unusual size with a custom-made chair. Well, that last one maybe isn't important. But it does mean Finn, too, is a spiritual heir to Darth Vader. Though, funnily enough, he's closer to (Clone Wars spoilers, not The Force Awakening:) Ahsoka.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:00
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I'm so loving stoked to see this thing on Wednesday. I'm actually flying to a nearby city to go to a VIP 18+ theatre with comfy chairs and good food and booze, so it's like a mini-vacation as well!
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Dec 19, 2015 23:06
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Mahoning posted:It's already been revealed well before the movie was released that that character has a much larger role in the later films. Silver Brushes posted:Surprisingly low amount of complaints about fan service. I have to give credit to JJ for what may be the most esoteric nod ever:  When Rey was standing around the corner and those two troopers were talking amongst themselves I immediately got flashbacks to eavesdropping on stormtroopers in the Jedi Outcast games, but I couldn't understand them in the theater. I had no idea JJ ripped a line right from them (and by proxy from ANH).
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Dec 19, 2015 23:14
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I like to pretend the two troopers who get the gently caress out of dodge when Kylo is losing his poo poo in the prison cell that Rey just escaped were actually Key and Peele.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:17
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teagone posted:Hmm, how are most of you interpreting that bit during the opening sequence the moment after Finn's companion is killed by Poe, when the editing focuses in on Finn and the music starts swelling and gets more muddling. Is it coincidental that during that state of confusion, Kylo Ren's ship comes into frame? At my first screening, I took that as Finn sensing Kylo Ren's arrival. And then the film almost confirmed that for me when Kylo Ren pauses in his footstep to look over at Finn. On my second screening though, it may have just been clever editing, but to be honest I'm not so sure. Kylo stops and looks at Finn because he knows he didn't shoot anyone, and is suspicious of him. That's why he is able to instantly guess the defector on board the Star Destroyer when it is brought to his attention. He knows he is green and, likely, could feel his terror or revulsion at the masscre Also, pretty sure that scene with Kylo's shuttle is simply a "badass arrives" scene. Nothing to read between the lines there. Also yeah Phasma is confirmed to return in 8
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Dec 19, 2015 23:19
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AndyElusive posted:I like to pretend the two troopers who get the gently caress out of dodge when Kylo is losing his poo poo in the prison cell that Rey just escaped were actually Key and Peele. You never know, Daniel Craig got a speaking part if rumours are to be believed
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Dec 19, 2015 23:21
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He was the trooper Rey Jedi Mind Tricked
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Dec 19, 2015 23:25
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Total Meatlove posted:You never know, Daniel Craig got a speaking part if rumours are to be believed Ha, yeah. Kind of blows my mind that Craig possibly got an uncredited role and that they stuffed poor Simon Pegg into a sweltering rubber suit for another uncredited role but Greg Grunberg gets to live the dream as an X-Wing pilot. CelticPredator posted:He was the trooper Rey Jedi Mind Tricked Oh poo poo that's awesome. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 23:25
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I really appreciate that FInn's thing is That is he compassionate. He isn't the greatest pilot (That's Poe) or the super-elite Jedi (that's Rey) or anything like that. He's just a genuinely good-hearted person struggling to do what is right, and I really hope the later films stick to that. It would be genuinely interesting for the major emotional climax to be Finn redeeming someone (Ren?) despite not being a Jedi. After 6 films of how Jedis are the best it's really nice to see FInn praised entirely for being brave and doing what he feels is right despite not being the best around and having moments of doubt.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:26
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Zodack posted:Kylo stops and looks at Finn because he knows he didn't shoot anyone, and is suspicious of him. That's why he is able to instantly guess the defector on board the Star Destroyer when it is brought to his attention. He knows he is green and, likely, could feel his terror or revulsion at the masscre Fair enough. That's basically what I told myself during the second screening. I guess the marketing did a great job at fooling me in that sequence with the editing and the music on opening night. A whole lotta subversion going on in this film, at least regarding 2 of the main characters. Subverting me personally anyways, heh. ImpAtom posted:I really appreciate that FInn's thing is That is he compassionate. He isn't the greatest pilot (That's Poe) or the super-elite Jedi (that's Rey) or anything like that. He's just a genuinely good-hearted person struggling to do what is right, and I really hope the later films stick to that. It would be genuinely interesting for the major emotional climax to be Finn redeeming someone (Ren?) despite not being a Jedi. After 6 films of how Jedis are the best it's really nice to see FInn praised entirely for being brave and doing what he feels is right despite not being the best around and having moments of doubt. A part of me wants Finn to somehow redeem Phasma if only because I want Gwendoline Christie to be running around with the good guys doing good guy stuff in her Phasma armor 
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Dec 19, 2015 23:27
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teagone posted:A part of me wants Finn to somehow redeem Phasma if only because I want Gwendoline Christie to be running around with the good guys doing good guy stuff in her Phasma armor I bet she turns out to be this trilogy's Boba Fett, there to look cool and get dunked on.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:32
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Mahoning posted:It's already been revealed well before the movie was released that that character has a much larger role in the later films. This is one of my little nitpicks with the movie. It seems like there's a lot of things that rely on knowledge outside of the movie. It's nothing important, just little things. Not seeing or hearing from Phasma again is one of these. We know she's not dead because we know she'll be in the next movie. It'd be like if ANH didn't have that shot of Vader flying away from the destroyed Death Star. Another is that if you showed these movies to someone who had no knowledge of Star Wars, there's no indication that this movie takes place 30 years after the last one until old Han shows up. I feel like the opening crawl could have been better and done a lot more to get some of the awkward exposition out of the way, and then we wouldn't have pages and pages in this thread of people wondering exactly how the relationship between the First Order, the Republic, and the Resistance works, or what the hell Hosnian Prime(?) was.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:34
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Bongo Bill posted:I bet she turns out to be this trilogy's Boba Fett, there to look cool and get dunked on. That already happened in this movie!
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Dec 19, 2015 23:37
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I heard her role was cut. But I'm not sure. That one toy guy, constable zuvo wasn' in the movie either. Lotsa things cut.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:39
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teagone posted:That already happened in this movie! I mean, for that to continue happening.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:41
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Bongo Bill posted:I mean, for that to continue happening. Oh I see That would break my nerdy little heart.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:43
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Hazo posted:Are we supposed to be concerned with the fate of Captain Phasma? Nobody seems to be really talking about what happened after she unceremoniously disappeared from the movie following her capture and I don't think we're supposed to believe Han or Finn is sadistic enough to actually execute her in a garbage compactor. I liked the idea that she's literally a throwaway character  ComposerGuy posted:As for the music, I had heard it a few days ago when the soundtrack leaked and loved it then, now having heard it with the film, I love it even more. It's vintage Williams. It's better than any of his work on the Prequels, bar none, by far. Rey's theme alone is a masterpiece. I think I need to give the soundtrack a listen before I see the movie again, because this was my one thing. I didn't really pick out any solid themes and I've seen it twice, it felt like for some reason they didn't just stop and say HEY NEW SONG every once in a while like every other movie. JW's work on the Prequels is one of the few bright spots (Doug Chiang is the other) so I was really looking forward to this. I'm glad to hear you think it's hot, so I will give it another go and see if I can soak it in. That one moment when Rey force-grabs the lightsaber and that one theme from the OT swells and she just stands there, that gave me loving goosebumps. I mean I'm getting them now just thinking about it, so I know that was one of those moments of auditory perfection that the series soundtrack just excels at. I'm hoping for more. Must go see movie again. Soon.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:44
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AndyElusive posted:Ha, yeah. Kind of blows my mind that Craig possibly got an uncredited role and that they stuffed poor Simon Pegg into a sweltering rubber suit for another uncredited role but Greg Grunberg gets to live the dream as an X-Wing pilot. I saw Simon Pegg in the credits. Assume Craig was in it as well.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:54
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I saw Simon Pegg in the credits. Assume Craig was in it as well. Was Simon Pegg the alien handing out rations?
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Dec 19, 2015 23:57
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CelticPredator posted:I heard her role was cut. But I'm not sure. That one toy guy, constable zuvo wasn' in the movie either. Lotsa things cut. Yeah, let's talk about this because it knocked around in my head this AM  EXTRA SPOILERS WARNING!! In that something was originally there, but not in the cut we saw. And how it might shine some light on Episode 8. So you can decide if you want someone connecting these dots for you or not. But it is a bit of speculation on my part I'm ok with talking about, because I'm betting I'm not the first who's thought of it, or the last before 2017.This was cut, but remember, the trailer. Luke's monologue about the force running in his family. 'and you have that power too!' - in TFA he only ever has a scene with one person. So was that his line, and then they decided to cut it? Because that would be a bit on the nose for 'hay you're Luke Jr.' Or was it recorded specifically for the trailer, to throw us off the scent, but even if it was, in a galaxy far far away it still seems as though melanin is inherited, which means of the main characters in the movie who seem to be powerful with the force, there's really only one person that could have been for. And there's so many actual hints in the movie that I'm willing just to go with they expect us to figure this out, but want to just tease us for a couple years before they go 'yeah of course she's a skywalker duuuuuh So whatcha think edit: yeah Pegg was blobfish face guy handing out rations edit2: and Craig was confirmed as the aforementioned cameo. Which is just fun. hhhat fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 23:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzFHwoALeYg
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Dec 20, 2015 00:00
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It's actually not taken directly from that, it's a new take and slightly different from the original. It was probably just recorded for the trailer though
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Dec 20, 2015 00:03
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hhhat posted:Yeah, let's talk about this because it knocked around in my head this AM I just assumed that the teaser with Luke's monologue was just for the teasers. Even when I was watching it, I didn't think it was going to be in the film itself because it was just a repeat of dialog straight from Jedi (even though he re-recorded it ImpAtom posted:It's actually not taken directly from that, it's a new take and slightly different from the original. It was probably just recorded for the trailer though Hamill did a rerecord and it was layered in with the original dialog.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:03
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ImpAtom posted:It's actually not taken directly from that, it's a new take and slightly different from the original. It was probably just recorded for the trailer though Right but it came from that scene. It wasn't a cut line from the movie.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:05
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jivjov posted:I just assumed that the teaser with Luke's monologue was just for the teasers. Even when I was watching it, I didn't think it was going to be in the film itself because it was just a repeat of dialog straight from Jedi (even though he re-recorded it Right so is that just to throw us off? More of the 'Mark Hammill really in this film guys really' thing? Because that's an odd way to introduce the teaser if it really isn't meant to talk about Rey or someone else in the movie, when you think about it. I guess I wouldn't put it past them, since they gave him top billing just to mystify everyone.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:07
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It was there because it's a good line and gets you excited for the movie.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:07
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hhhat posted:Right so is that just to throw us off? More of the 'Mark Hammill really in this film guys really' thing? Because that's an odd way to introduce the teaser if it really isn't meant to talk about Rey or someone else in the movie, when you think about it. I guess I wouldn't put it past them, since they gave him top billing just to mystify everyone. Pretty much. "Hey, remember that cool stuff from Return of the Jedi? Come see the next one!"
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Dec 20, 2015 00:13
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I thought the movie was good, but I didn't love it--just how I felt about Abrams' Star Trek. My big criticism is that the story seemed more complicated than it needed to be for this kind of movie, and as a result the pacing was too fast to allow tension or emotions to really breathe. For example, the McGuffin of the movie is a map to Luke, which drives the plot all the way up through the second act. Then it feels like that whole story line gets put on pause after they get to the Resistance base and everything switches to being about taking out Starkiller base until the last 5 minutes of the movie. Either one of those objectives could have been the goal of an entire movie, but together they add unnecessary complexity. Compare it to A New Hope, which this movie is clearly inspired by [ripping off], where defeating the Death Star was the one overriding goal from the opening title crawl all the way up until the climax of the movie. Because there's so much more story to chew through in Force Awakens, I felt like major character developments and plot twists were flying by too quickly for me to feel them the way I was supposed to. Oh, and some of the expository dialog was kind of terrible. When Snoke tells Ren 'the map to Skywalker is onboard the Millennium Falcon, in the possession of your father, Han Solo' I half expected him to turn to the audience and add, 'Because he's his SON, see. Did everybody get that!? Rey is goddamn awesome though.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:17
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I just wanted to point out that I really like Rey's costuming, especially her fresh getup at the end. Rey 
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Dec 20, 2015 00:27
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jivjov posted:Pretty much. "Hey, remember that cool stuff from Return of the Jedi? Come see the next one!" ok BUT speech in ROTJ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzFHwoALeYg thanks dude above me "The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it... my sister has it." speech in TFA trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs "The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power too." Who's the 'you' here is the point. It could be just a 'hay come watch movie' or it could be to throw everyone off or it could be a real line because he's addressing an important character that would in this context have to be a member of his family and by his tone it ain't someone who knows they have the force so that's not Ben Solo there. That's all I'm getting at. And I don't think it's meant to be non-obvious so I'm marking 'hay come watch movie' off the list of options.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:29
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I've rarely seen a movie in which the actual plot is so rushed, unoriginal, and weirdly lacking in stakes that is carried entirely by the new characters being really, really good. I god drat loved everything about the new cast, even Kylo Ren, who I thought I would hate.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:32
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"You have that power too" is in ROTJ, but it's a few lines before "The Force is strong in my family."Operant posted:I've rarely seen a movie in which the actual plot is so rushed, unoriginal, and weirdly lacking in stakes that is carried entirely by the new characters being really, really good. I god drat loved everything about the new cast, even Kylo Ren, who I thought I would hate. Agreed, except for Phasma, who not only gets chumped but also acts way out of character in her last scene.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:33
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hhhat posted:ok BUT The line "You have that power too" is in that same scene from Jedi, they just rearranged it for the teaser.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:35
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