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cargohills posted:I'm not sure what makes the Star Wars prequels different to something like The Raid or a John Woo film when it comes to ridiculously impractical fight scenes.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:06
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I think someone should make a prequel thread cause I'm not relishing having to re-read the same RLM links/criticisms of RLM links I've seen for the past few years while trying to read about Force Awakens.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:06
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Lightsaber battles are supposed to be rare. They are meant to be more than "cool", but also mirror the user wielding them. This is true for the OT. It is why there is so much tension. Each clash is slow and deliberate and you feel as if a single strike could be the last. The prequels are boring as everything appears too well rehearsed and devoid of emotions. Thats why the lightsaber battles in TFA owns. Even if the "hit" doesn't out right kill someone, a damage is still done to someone. There is tension. The characters are talking with their actions instead of telling you poo poo like a god drat Anime. If you like the prequel lightsaber battles (or any bit of the prequels) I hope you remain disappointed for years to come with these new movies 
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Dec 20, 2015 23:06
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cargohills posted:I'm not sure what makes the Star Wars prequels different to something like The Raid or a John Woo film when it comes to ridiculously impractical fight scenes. Those films don't set out to be anything more than cheap popcorn movies. Star Wars attempts to sell you an being greater than it is plus toys!
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Dec 20, 2015 23:08
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And Star Wars is an expensive popcorn movie.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:10
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Anakin and Obiwan ought to die a thousand times regardless of what they do with their lightsabers in that final duel. Why on earth would jump into a river of lava while you're trying to fight someone? And doubly so why would you jump after the dude you're fighting when he jumps into a river of lava?
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Dec 20, 2015 23:12
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So what's going on with all the other Knights of Ren other than Kylo then. Is it right to assume that Luke killed the others?
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Dec 20, 2015 23:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Anakin and Obiwan ought to die a thousand times regardless of what they do with their lightsabers in that final duel. Why on earth would jump into a river of lava while you're trying to fight someone? And doubly so why would you jump after the dude you're fighting when he jumps into a river of lava?
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Dec 20, 2015 23:17
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Weasling Weasel posted:So what's going on with all the other Knights of Ren other than Kylo then. Is it right to assume that Luke killed the others? I would assume he did, and had the chance to end Kylo, but didn't at the behest of Han/Leah/his own misgivings.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:17
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Lightsaber battles are supposed to be rare. They are only rare because there's not a lot of Jedi/Sith faffing about. Movies with more Jedis rolling around, there's gonna be more lightsaber battles. virtualboyCOLOR posted:If you like the prequel lightsaber battles (or any bit of the prequels) I hope you remain disappointed for years to come with these new movies I liked the new movie a whole lot. I also liked the awkward responses the movie got (here and elsewhere) that boil down to "Huh, so this new movie is a copy-paste of a Star Wars Movie I Grew Up With, yet I'm not as thrilled about it as the original Star Wars Movie I Grew Up With"
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Dec 20, 2015 23:17
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Weasling Weasel posted:So what's going on with all the other Knights of Ren other than Kylo then. Is it right to assume that Luke killed the others? Either that or they're off in other sectors.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:17
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I said come in! posted:I liked the music during this fight! But all of the fights were choreographed, no emotion in any of the fights and nothing was ever at stake. They all felt like video game sequences, so none of them were entertaining or exciting to watch. I like the run-up to the Darth Maul fight more than anything. Sure it's blunt but demonstrating the temperament of the three fighters was nice even if the reason for the delay was incredibly clumsy. You might get a sense that Quigon has a more direct style while Obiwan and Maul have flashy styles but that's not very clear. It does give a sense of what Jedi are like when they're not relics and it works for modern audiences too. A shame that the two plot critical moments (both deaths) are the worst executed segments of the fight. The Yoda fight in Clones it's just audience pleasing and is okay for that reason. My theater lost their poo poo when that happened. Like everything else in the PT it doesn't make sense in retrospect but it was a fun gimmick the first time. It was the only part of Clones that my audience reacted to if I remember correctly. Won't argue about stakes though. None of them can answer the question "if NAME gets away or triumphs ___ will happen" even when you completely understand the plot so they're failures in that respect. [The Force Awakens] I'm thinking there are two really interesting storylines for Fin. Either he's a former child soldier coming to terms with being brainwashed and forced into fighting. This story can have all kinds of revelations about what Storm Troopers think and how they interact when they aren't being shot at. The landing party scene could break the illusion of the brainwashing and force him to choose a new destiny. I had kind of thought this would happen based on the trailer image of him looking at Poe by the X-Wing, as though he was seeing a person he's conditioned to fight but as a normal person. It would also lend itself to someone not wanting to kill Storm Troopers because he was one and sees them not as depersonalized armored monsters but as people forced to fight. He'd probably speak like a dyed in the wool military man. Or he's a space janitor who conned his way into a landing party and wants nothing but to return to his life before being abducted by the Empire as an adult and forced into menial labor. He's a cowardly lion who has to overcome the urge to flee back to his home world and the culture that he was taken from. He'd probably speak plainly and get by on is wits and quick thinking. I'm somewhat disappointed that the Fin on screen is in the middle of the two. He doesn't speak like a child soldier but more like someone who had a life before the First Order. But he also has no qualms about killing Storm Troopers even though he's been one for a while after being a janitor. I think both origins are interesting in a Star Wars movie but it's odd to have one be both because he doesn't really fit his mixed origin to me. I think it's mostly that I don't think he fits as a storm trooper so his presence in the opening scene doesn't work for me. Maybe if I create some head canon that he stole FN-8675309's armor in an attempt to escape it would work better for me. Because I like the cowardly lion approach in terms of dialogue and arc that he has onscreen.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:17
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I was appalled when Yoda whipped out the saber and started screaming like Miss Piggy and flipping around all over the place in Clones, but what is wrong with Jedi doing force jumps in general?
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Dec 20, 2015 23:18
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MisterBibs posted:I liked the new movie a whole lot. I also liked the awkward responses the movie got (here and elsewhere) that boil down to "Huh, so this new movie is a copy-paste of a Star Wars Movie I Grew Up With, yet I'm not as thrilled about it as the original Star Wars Movie I Grew Up With" Any other popular CD opinions you're going to pilfer and repeat over and over?
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Dec 20, 2015 23:20
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Movie was ok
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Dec 20, 2015 23:21
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MisterBibs posted:They are only rare because there's not a lot of Jedi/Sith faffing about. Movies with more Jedis rolling around, there's gonna be more lightsaber battles. 1) Why? 2) If they are gonna fly jump swoosh everywhere, why didn't Vader, Obi-wan, and Luke do so in the original trilogy? quote:I liked the new movie a whole lot. I also liked the awkward responses the movie got (here and elsewhere) that boil down to "Huh, so this new movie is a copy-paste of a Star Wars Movie I Grew Up With, yet I'm not as thrilled about it as the original Star Wars Movie I Grew Up With" Well yeah, those people are idiots because this movie is basically the same and it owns because of that. Anyone who dislikes it but like a new hope is a retard.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:22
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I give the film a 7/10. It was good and I liked the new kids but I hated the garbage not Death Star and the stupid fake trench they have to go down. The third act was a little weak as a whole but it was loads better than the prequels so yay.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:24
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Nessus posted:Yeah, and what's this bullshit "light saber" crap they're using? They should use nothing but mental domination and silenced firearms. Yes amusing, but the thing is that the OT actually has far fewer of these 'let's do something stupid cause it might look nice!' moments, and the lightsaber duels do not suffer from it, in fact they are generally much more memorable even though they are simple and don't have tons of poo poo happening in the background. The stupid action bits in the OT are usually reserved for poo poo other than the duels which are usually the emotional climax of the movie. MrMojok posted:I was appalled when Yoda whipped out the saber and started screaming like Miss Piggy and flipping around all over the place in Clones, but what is wrong with Jedi doing force jumps in general? idk, it just looks really bad and disjointed, I guess it's just relatively poor editing compared to the rest of the sequence. There's also the moment where Obiwan falls down a single story and makes a big fuss about it, looks up and sees the fight happening up above him and takes a couple of seconds to remember he can just jump up there, it looks silly. There's another 'bad jumping moment' in that duel when Maul does a backflip to the next bridge and then Obiwan and Qui gon jump after him right into his face and he doesn't even extend his sword to fend them off as they jump (nor do they attempt to attack him), it just looks cuts off from the rest of the fight whenever they do those jumps.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:24
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:2) If they are gonna fly jump swoosh everywhere, why didn't Vader, Obi-wan, and Luke do so in the original trilogy? I don't believe I've ever read this being a creative decision. I've always thought of it more being a limitation of special effects for its time.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:24
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The only way this film is really that similar to ANH is droid with important information and there's a new Death Star. And those two points aren't even related in this film, unlike ANH.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:25
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:1) Why? The original films were released around 1980, that's why.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:25
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Crow_Robot posted:I don't believe I've ever read this being a creative decision. I've always thought of it more being a limitation of special effects for its time.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:25
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Both Vader and Luke both did force jumps in Empire Strikes back . Luke flipped over Vader and Vader glided to the bottom of the stairs.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:27
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:2) If they are gonna fly jump swoosh everywhere, why didn't Vader, Obi-wan, and Luke do so in the original trilogy? You mean the dude who has had like 60% of his body burned off, the geriatric, and the dude taught by two geriatrics? I can't quite understand why none of them fly around. The third one got close at the end when he was wailing on the half-robot dude, though. Not-so-coincidentally, the best lightsaber fight in the OT. virtualboyCOLOR posted:Well yeah, those people are idiots because this movie is basically the same and it owns because of that. Anyone who dislikes it but like a new hope is a retard. They aren't mentally ill; they just haven't put two and two together and realized that you can either get a Star Wars that precisely hits all the buttons you grew when you were a kid, or a Star Wars that does something different.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:29
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:1) Why? Luke force jumped in the original trilogy.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:30
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:1) Why? New Hope was more groundbreaking and had a different mythic way of storytelling, and it also didn't have the baggage of being a sequel. I liked TFA but being a copy doesn't mean it's the same contextually, and it wasn't an identical clone anyways.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:31
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Nessus posted:Yeah, I think Lucas himself said that the lightsaber fighters in those films were a crippled cyborg, an old man, and a kid who was trained by that old man. Lucas is a dimwit
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Dec 20, 2015 23:32
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So in regards to how/why R2-D2 woke up, JJ Abrams confirms it was...kinda just cause he wanted to after BB-8 rolls into him earlier in the film. http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens Not having anything to do with Rey. Kinda dumb but it could just be JJ not wanting to spoil VIII
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Dec 20, 2015 23:34
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MrMojok posted:I was appalled when Yoda whipped out the saber and started screaming like Miss Piggy and flipping around all over the place in Clones, but what is wrong with Jedi doing force jumps in general? Haha, I love the image of the audience in the theater going nuts and cheering as yoda begins spinning and doing a bunch of crazy poo poo on screen. You sitting quietly in the excited crowd feeling sick to your stomach as you witness your little green Jedi master hero fight with a lightsaber because you know better than these idiots that even though he's a Jedi master he would never fight with a lightsaber because he's a puppet. SnoochtotheNooch fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 23:35
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Here's fuckin Joe Shmoe clumsily trying to use something he has no idea how to use and he actually gets a point on you. Why doesn Kylo know a bunch of sequences and why doesn't he appear to be moving incredibly fast to Finn? Kylo Ren took a loving bowcaster shot center mass like 10 minutes before the fight, the movie even plays up his injuries when he first confronts Rey and Finn in the snow.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:37
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Haha, I love the imagine of the audience in the theater going nuts and cheering as yoda begins spinning and doing a bunch of crazy poo poo on screen. You sitting quietly in the excited crowd feeling sick to your stomach as you witness your little green Jedi master hero fight with a lightsaber because you know better than these idiots that even though he's a Jedi master he would never fight with a lightsaber because he's a puppet.  "This is how good cinema dies... to thunderous applause..."
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Dec 20, 2015 23:38
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Gabriel Pope posted:Kylo Ren took a loving bowcaster shot center mass like 10 minutes before the fight, the movie even plays up his injuries when he first confronts Rey and Finn in the snow. And he repeatedly hits himself in his wound to use the pain.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:39
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PaganGoatPants posted:And he repeatedly hits himself in his wound to use the pain. Which was loving awesome.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:40
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MisterBibs posted:Of course I did. I like Star Wars. That's pretty much horseshit, because I never watched any of the movies in their entirety until a couple years before Phantom Menace came out, in my late teens. So, you know, you could come up with some defense of why they're good or memorable, or resort to some lameass "hurf durf it's cause you weren't 12" standby you learned from a webcomic. cargohills posted:I'm not sure what makes the Star Wars prequels different to something like The Raid or a John Woo film when it comes to ridiculously impractical fight scenes. The Raid was well choreographed, the action scenes were interesting and carried weight, and the fighters had visibly impressive technique. None of which you could say for PT battles. raditts fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 23:40
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you use to claim otherwise: you didn't grow up with the prequels.
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I agree with the assessment that the pre-quels were children's movies. My nephews loving loved all of the Prequels and were bored by New Hope when we tried to show it to them.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:42
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We dont have any real reason to think Ren would be great at deuls. He's young and has not completed his training. He's Snoke's errand boy.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:43
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It is more that it doesn't fit his character at all. If Yoda pulled out his saber and used it for pure defense (cuz you don't want to get a laser sword to the face) while flinging tons of poo poo into the other guy, or other force poo poo, people probably wouldn't have hated it as much. Instead of having him suddenly be super acrobat man, how about giving him a dozen lightsabers that he controls with his mind or some poo poo? Or maybe he uses poo poo in the environment like cables or hoses to tie the other guy up? Those are probably terrible ideas because I pulled them out of my rear end, but it sure sounds better than to have him flip out all over the place.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:44
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Haha, I love the image of the audience in the theater going nuts and cheering as yoda begins spinning and doing a bunch of crazy poo poo on screen. You sitting quietly in the excited crowd feeling sick to your stomach as you witness your little green Jedi master hero fight with a lightsaber because you know better than these idiots that even though he's a Jedi master he would never fight with a lightsaber because he's a puppet. This for me was the value of the Plinkett reviews: during the Yoda fight I felt like I should like it and really tried to like it but something was just missing. It only really made sense to me after seeing the Plinkett reviews. Even though there's a ton of flashy stuff on the screen you can't help but be bored.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:45
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It's okay guys, it's ok for a light saber duel to be both well choreographed and have meaning. Liking some of the PT battles because they were flashy and exciting doesn't mean you liked the movies as a whole or thought that flashy and exciting is more important than meaning. Correctly acknowledging the awfulness of the ANH duel choreography doesn't mean you're missing the point about what the scene was about.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:45
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ZypherIM posted:Or maybe he uses poo poo in the environment like cables or hoses to tie the other guy up? It was a pillar instead of cables, but he did this immediately before his fight in AOTC. Oh and they were throwing the Senate chairs at each other in ROTS.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:49
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