|
It is important to remember that the superiority of entrenchment & defense of the period was mostly overcome by advances in technology and intelligent applications of that technology, not just advancements in strategy or technology alone. Early ww1 commanders can scarcely be faulted for not having either. There were theaters of world war II where, despite the aggressor having tanks, planes, infantry and numbers, the attackers still had severe difficulties with overcoming an entrenched position, largely because attackers didn't have experienced commanders to make good use of those line-breaking advantages.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:27 |
|
|
Another WW2 example, The Dieppe Raid.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 02:17
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:On the tombstone of a gladiator named Urbicus, who died at age 23 after 13 fights, it is written: "I warn you to kill those whom you have defeated". On the tombstone of the gladiator Diodorus it is written: "After breaking my opponent Demetrius I did not kill him immediately. Fate and the cunning treachery of the summa rudis killed me." (Summa rudis was the referee). Nice! This impressed me, the seal of Tut Ankh Amon's tomb stayed unbroken for more than 3 millennia:  Also shows that seals have basically been the same since then. A malleable material that you press a relief into, to prove its provenance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 03:12
|
|
|
It would've been fun to be able to watch the ancient Egyptians' reactions to Tut Ankh Amon's fame. When he lived he was the inbred son of a heretical pharao and he never accomplish much before he died. And now not even Ramses II, who was considered such a big deal that nine other pharaos took his name, is more well known than him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:The "WWI commanders were dumb" meme kills another thread. Please read any Douglas Haig biography not written by an anti-culture author as a case study in how innovative, highly spirited military thinkers contributed to the dynamics of the war. This thread is like at least 50% mythology or popularly exaggerated historically based stories so I doubt that will "kill" it
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 14:55
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:The "WWI commanders were dumb" meme kills another thread. Please read any Douglas Haig biography not written by an anti-culture author as a case study in how innovative, highly spirited military thinkers contributed to the dynamics of the war. I really have to wonder how many threads have been killed by this 'meme' for it to have become a thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 15:31
|
|
|
Slime posted:I really have to wonder how many threads have been killed by this 'meme' for it to have become a thing. Lions, posted in by donkeys.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Molentik posted:The English once hanged a monkey for being a French spy. I live in the town where this happened as it goes. There's two different stories about what went down - what is known is that back when we were weren't exactly on good terms with France, a ship was damaged during a storm, tried to make it to the port here, failed and came apart. The only survivor was a monkey that was on the ship, probably a mascot or pet. The story gets a bit confused here, and there are two different versions. Version one is the one where the monkey was hanged for being a french spy. It's pretty plausible given that the only time anyone would have seen a french person would be in propaganda, so the hairy, screaming thing gibbering at people would clearly have been a frenchman and a spy. (There's always been a Tiiiiiiiiiny inbreeding problem here and the place is basically Mordor if they turned off the volcano, so this is probably the actual version of events. The dead monkey was probably fried and eaten.) The second version is that while the crew were missing or dead, the ship wasn't totally wrecked and there was enough left of it to be worth quite a bit in salvage, aside from the fact the ships monkey survived. There was some debate about wether the monkey was actually legally able to claim salvage rights but the situation was resolved when the monkey was found guilty of biting a rescuer and was hanged. (This one probably wasn't what happened, as it implies someone would have been familiar with marine law, which would have meant someone would have been able to read. People here view books as a type of bread.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 16:14
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:It would've been fun to be able to watch the ancient Egyptians' reactions to Tut Ankh Amon's fame. When he lived he was the inbred son of a heretical pharao and he never accomplish much before he died. And now not even Ramses II, who was considered such a big deal that nine other pharaos took his name, is more well known than him. Imagine if the grave of Charles II of Spain was opened in a thousand years by future archaeologists. Plus, Ramses II is more well known for the "Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair" thing nowadays anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 16:47
|
|
|
While we're on the topic of somewhat dubious tales of rural British people killing animals for dumb reasons, the last known Great Auk (an extinct flightless bird that resembled, but was unrelated to, penguins) in the British Isles was (reportedly) killed on the archipelago of St. Kilda, Scotland, in 1844. When a storm kicked up, the people who had caught the bird thought it was a witch in disguise and that it was responsible for the storm, and beat the animal to death with a stick. The last ones in the world died a little later, when the knowledge that they were going extinct made museums and collectors pay a lot of money to obtain dead specimens whilst they were still around, which led to the last of the animals being killed on a little rock off the coast of Iceland. The word penguin was originally another name for the Great Auk, and when Europeans discovered similar-looking species of birds in the southern hemisphere they called them penguins too. The name has outlasted the Great Auk itself, which went extinct in the 1850's after centuries of hunting, mostly for its feathers. ~ R.I.P. Great Auk, approx. 5.000.000 B.C - approx. 1855 A.D ~ May the stubby little wings of angels carry thee to thy rest 
Red Bones has a new favorite as of 16:58 on Dec 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 16:54
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:It would've been fun to be able to watch the ancient Egyptians' reactions to Tut Ankh Amon's fame. When he lived he was the inbred son of a heretical pharao and he never accomplish much before he died. And now not even Ramses II, who was considered such a big deal that nine other pharaos took his name, is more well known than him. Imagine if in the year 3000 the best known American president will be Martin Van Buren. That would be pretty rad.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
I've often wondered about archaeological focus points, like king Tut. Like the idea that our ancestors were 'cave men'. Do you know how freaking hard it is to find a cave that you can live in? The reason our ancestors were 'cave men' is because we find their remaining art and tools where they could be preserved, which is in caves. There were references to "The Hundred Schools of Thought", including Confucianism, that were wiped out by the Qin dynasty. Later, the Analects of Confucius were found embedded in an ancient wall somewhere, and I remember reading that this coincidence was a big reason for his lasting influence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 19:53
|
|
|
King Doom posted:There's always been a Tiiiiiiiiiny inbreeding problem here and the place is basically Mordor if they turned off the volcano, so this is probably the actual version of events. Nah, that's Middlesbrough! They're not called Smoggies for nothing! Hartlepool does have some other interesting historical facts - it was where the first soldier died on British soil during the first World War, when German battleships shelled the town. It didn't have a naval port, but did have some shipbuilding industry and defence batteries so they considered it a legitimate target. Over a hundred civilians were killed in the shelling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 22:15
|
|
|
Phyzzle posted:I've often wondered about archaeological focus points, like king Tut. Like the idea that our ancestors were 'cave men'. Do you know how freaking hard it is to find a cave that you can live in? The reason our ancestors were 'cave men' is because we find their remaining art and tools where they could be preserved, which is in caves. Probably the Dunhuang manuscripts, I remember reading about those recently. A kind of Chinese Dead Sea Scrolls situation with a walled up cave containing thousands of manuscripts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 22:18
|
|
|
Pseudohog posted:
I can see the place from my house. There's a tiny little plaque. The shipbuilding comment made me remember something I was told in school - according to my geography teacher, the local shipyards were so productive that during the 1980's they were turning out a greater amount of shipping than the rest of the world combined. Don't believe that one, personally.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2015 23:00
|
|
|
In 1814 at the junction of Tottenham Court Road and Oxford Street in London, a vat containing 641000 liters of beer ruptured and caused a cascading failure at the Meux & Co. Brewery, ultimately leading to one and a half million litres of beer flooding central London. The beer wave destroyed two homes and killed at least eight people, and although the brewery was taken to court the London Beer Flood was declared an Act of God by the judge & jury. In 1919 a similar event happened in Boston, but involving molasses instead of beer. A seven meter high wave of treacle surged through the streets of the North End at over 50kmh, killing 21 and wounding over 150.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 01:39
|
|
|
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:In 1814 at the junction of Tottenham Court Road and Oxford Street in London, a vat containing 641000 liters of beer ruptured and caused a cascading failure at the Meux & Co. Brewery, ultimately leading to one and a half million litres of beer flooding central London. The beer wave destroyed two homes and killed at least eight people, and although the brewery was taken to court the London Beer Flood was declared an Act of God by the judge & jury. Remember when the history channel used to be good?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 02:18
|
|
|
Red Bones posted:Some fun Japanese history facts: The American censorship regime is also why the Japanese have the quirky tendency to censor penises to this very day! 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
syscall girl posted:Remember when the history channel used to be good? TLC was another causality of ratings. It taught me that Pharaoh Snefru of the Old Kingdom built 3 pyramids during a period of innovation and prosperity and worked on developing the smooth sided pyramid vs earlier step-sided designs. Though one of his pyramids, el-heram el-kaddaab, collapsed probably before completion due to construction errors and design changes, another came out kind of lovely, the famous bent pyramid, from these attempts the ancient Egyptians probably learned how to make better pyramids with more stable incline angles and better construction techniques that would not compromise the structure. Snefru's next attempt, the Red Pyramid, came out much better and is considered the first successful smooth-sided pyramid. Now TV tells me only aliens could have made them 
hard counter has a new favorite as of 02:56 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
Your Dunkle Sans posted:The American censorship regime is also why the Japanese have the quirky tendency to censor penises to this very day! A lot of stereotypical "Japanese" things are a result of the US.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 03:44
|
|
|
hard counter posted:TLC was another causality of ratings. It taught me that Pharaoh Snefru of the Old Kingdom built 3 pyramids during a period of innovation and prosperity and worked on developing the smooth sided pyramid vs earlier step-sided designs. Though one of his pyramids, el-heram el-kaddaab, collapsed probably before completion due to construction errors and design changes, another came out kind of lovely, the famous bent pyramid, from these attempts the ancient Egyptians probably learned how to make better pyramids with more stable incline angles and better construction techniques that would not compromise the structure. Snefru's next attempt, the Red Pyramid, came out much better and is considered the first successful smooth-sided pyramid. Pfft, everyone knows Jesus's dad built em to store grain. Apparently that one was just one of the early versions before he had all the bugs worked out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 05:07
|
|
|
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:In 1919 a similar event happened in Boston, but involving molasses instead of beer. A seven meter high wave of treacle surged through the streets of the North End at over 50kmh, killing 21 and wounding over 150. The Boston Molassacre 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 05:12
|
|
|
Aesop Poprock posted:This thread is like at least 50% mythology or popularly exaggerated historically based stories so I doubt that will "kill" it And I would suggest that this is 80% better than what you'll loving find anywhere else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 06:33
|
|
|
If you want to hurt yourself internally, read people debating history in video game forums. Go on. Do it. It is a good pain.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 15:31
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:If you want to hurt yourself internally, read people debating history in video game forums. Go on. Do it. It is a good pain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 16:01
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:If you want to hurt yourself internally, read people debating history in video game forums. Go on. Do it. It is a good pain. "The Tiger panzer was and is the best tank in all of history, AND FURTHERMORE" 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 16:26
|
|
Comrade Koba posted:"The Tiger panzer was and is the best tank in all of history, AND FURTHERMORE" Prussians Prussians Prussians Gustav Adolf Prussians MACEDONIA! SOVIET HORDES THE ROMANS!
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 16:48
|
|
|
Comrade Koba posted:"The Tiger panzer was and is the best tank in all of history, AND FURTHERMORE" The Tiger, while being 'the best' in some performance terms was also an unneccessarily complicated piece of machinery which bled maintenance resources and was - along with many other similar German ventures into combining high-tech-solutions into war machines - one reason that lost the war to the more reliable and rugged tanks that could be mass-manufactured and fixed with a sledgehammer. There is a reason why Russian small arms are all the rage in the 2nd/3rd world conflicts and one lesson, that especially American armed forces seem keen to forget every time. But in the Internet, its mostly neo-nazi war-fankery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 17:12
|
|
|
The Germans did always have the coolest uniforms though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:00
|
|
|
Hugo Boss, baby.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 18:07
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:If you want to hurt yourself internally, read people debating history in video game forums. Go on. Do it. It is a good pain. Let me tell you about Serbia and how it's the greatest country in the world and the fact that it's considered a backwater is because of a GLOBAL CONSPIRACY
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 22:13
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:The Tiger, while being 'the best' in some performance terms was also an unneccessarily complicated piece of machinery which bled maintenance resources and was - along with many other similar German ventures into combining high-tech-solutions into war machines - one reason that lost the war to the more reliable and rugged tanks that could be mass-manufactured and fixed with a sledgehammer. COMMUNIST LIES AND SLANDER! HOW DARE YOU BESMIRCH THE HONOR OF THE GLORIOUS STURMPANZERWAFFENKAMPFSTAFFELGRENADIERDIVISION! Der Kyhe posted:But in the Internet, its mostly neo-nazi war-fankery. The internet has the biggest nerd-boner ever for totalitarianism, stretching from the Romans, through feudal Japan, Prussia and British colonial rule all the way to Nazi Germany.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 22:39
|
|
|
While commonly issued Russian military arms and equipment tend to be stout, they also have developed a mythology similar to the German tank bullshit. Take the AK- besides it having more to do with German small arms design than commonly noted (funny enough, not much to what it bears cosmetic semblance to, the MP/STG44) thanks to captured German arms designers, it is also not the unstoppable gun that it gets credit for. It developed it's own myths thanks to early incomplete intelligence reports and experiences in extreme places where some of it's faults turned to features.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:A lot of stereotypical "Japanese" things are a result of the US.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 23:33
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:If you want to hurt yourself internally, read people debating history in video game forums. Go on. Do it. It is a good pain. "So, here's this Giant Enemy Crab..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMfapDlm9UY
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 00:35
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:If you want to hurt yourself internally, read people debating history in video game forums. Go on. Do it. It is a good pain. As someone who plays War Thunder...no, I get enough of this naturally already. Der Kyhe posted:The Tiger, while being 'the best' in some performance terms was also an unnecessarily complicated piece of machinery which bled maintenance resources and was - along with many other similar German ventures into combining high-tech-solutions into war machines - one reason that lost the war to the more reliable and rugged tanks that could be mass-manufactured and fixed with a sledgehammer. The Tiger especially suffered from having a lovely engine and shittier transmission. Now it wasn't entirely the Germans' fault it was such a piece of poo poo outside of its thick (if poorly designed) armor and huge, honking gun: the Allies had made a concerted effort to bomb every single factory they could identify to the point that many a German engineer would have likely gladly traded his left nut for a box of steel bearings. However the end result was a big, honking heavy tank with fragile insides that likely cost far more than it should have and was very likely to break down far before it reached the front lines. Of course this wasn't such a big deal near the end of the war: wherever a Tiger broke down the front was sure to reach it soon enough. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 01:54
|
|
|
ha ha it's all good fun to disparage nerds and the cults of personality they'll form around favored generals, weapons or vehicles on the internet but we really shouldn't drag The Father of Modern Strategy's name through the mud as well guys
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 02:17
|
|
|
Sid Meier?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:49
|
|
|
hard counter posted:ha ha it's all good fun to disparage nerds and the cults of personality they'll form around favored generals, weapons or vehicles on the internet but we really shouldn't drag The Father of Modern Strategy's name through the mud as well Westwood Studios?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:27 |
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:While commonly issued Russian military arms and equipment tend to be stout, they also have developed a mythology similar to the German tank bullshit. Take the AK- besides it having more to do with German small arms design than commonly noted (funny enough, not much to what it bears cosmetic semblance to, the MP/STG44) thanks to captured German arms designers, it is also not the unstoppable gun that it gets credit for. It developed it's own myths thanks to early incomplete intelligence reports and experiences in extreme places where some of it's faults turned to features. More to do with German small arms design than commonly noted? It's got much more similarity to the Garand that goes without mention than anything German. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/05/05/rifle-paternity-test-pinning-down-the-m1-garands-influence-on-the-ak/ It's a synthesis of a lot of good ideas from the time period and definitely deserves credit for putting them in one place, and suiting them to the parent nation's manufacturing capabilities.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 08:28
|
|