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asio posted:Ok well I'm stumped now, you've got me confused. Let me get back to you tomorrow after I've stood in front of some moving traffic to see which hurts more. OK, I think you've misunderstood me. There is a substantial difference in the chance of killing a pedestrian based on vehicle type. So do you agree that your thesis of "cyclists cause less harm when they break road rules so should pay lower fines" should be extended to cars and trucks as well as they cause differing amounts if harm when breaking road rules as well. I'm not saying you are wrong it's fine to hold that view I'm just not sure how far you hold it?
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Dec 21, 2015 10:43
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Let's just make it simple, Good: Cyclists, Pedestrians gently caress off: the rest of youse
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Dec 21, 2015 10:47
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hooman posted:OK, I think you've misunderstood me. There is a substantial difference in the chance of killing a pedestrian based on vehicle type. So do you agree that your thesis of "cyclists cause less harm when they break road rules so should pay lower fines" should be extended to cars and trucks as well as they cause differing amounts if harm when breaking road rules as well. I'm not saying you are wrong it's fine to hold that view I'm just not sure how far you hold it? I think it's because I'm proposing an ideology of bicycle supremacy, at least in the city and suburbs. And while I realise ideology based arguments are lost when they're begun I feel comfortable doing so because it's not a fringe opinion. Allowing for a sliding scale of fines based on potential damage by weight that includes the bicycle assumes that the bicycle is similar enough to cars and trucks that they can be included in that category. If you want to see cars off the road then this system won't help. If, however, we would like to see a way of discouraging injury caused by bicycles then we could instead modify the road design to encourage safe riding, as opposed to currently where the roads are too unsafe to ride even while following the road rules.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:10
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Cartoon posted:Entertainment, Hospitality and Retail. Utterly no surprises here. What counts as Entertainment? I work in the TV industry in a relatively well paid job but I work late nights and weekends and very much depend on penalty rates. I mean obviously I don't want anybody's rates to be cut, but it's this kind of thing that makes me realise that so many people see the penalty rate thing as just about casual jobs vs. frontline ambos/firies/cops. There's an awful lot of other jobs that get (and depend on) penalty rates as well. I have faith, anyway; the government was already skittish today about endorsing the report and Turnbull has repeatedly said he'd take something like that to an election if it came to it. Polling shows that the majority of Australians (and even a majority of Liberal voters) support the current system. I would hope that enough people, and particularly enough swing voters, would have kids or friends who work in those sectors for it to be a dealbreaking issue for them. Howard didn't fare too well when he tried to tamper with workers' rights.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:11
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asio posted:I think it's because I'm proposing an ideology of bicycle supremacy, at least in the city and suburbs. And while I realise ideology based arguments are lost when they're begun I feel comfortable doing so because it's not a fringe opinion. That's cool, I wasn't trying to have a go at you, just trying to understand your thinking. I'm a cyclist too. I just think that road rules should apply to all road users. In a strictly ideological sense of bigger penalties for less efficient transportation measures with reduced penalties for carpools and things I probably agree.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:16
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open24hours posted:I wonder if distance is the best measure to compare car and motorcycle deaths to walking and cycling. Time traveling might be better, walking and cycling are slow so you spend more time exposed to risk per kilometre traveled. given the majority of trips taken are to get from one place to another place, distance seems a good metric to use.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:20
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If the ALP loses an election on reduced penality rates then I don't know what hope this country has anymore.
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Dec 21, 2015 13:14
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Anidav posted:If the ALP loses an election on reduced penality rates then I don't know what hope this country has anymore. Why? It will only be poor people who work retail or clean my workplace who will miss out, not me. That's right. gently caress you, got mine.
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Dec 21, 2015 13:48
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As a person who works hospitality and doesn't have a normal social life because of it, my most sincere gently caress you and I hope you get lovely service/all your food comes out wrong or burnt!!!!!
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Dec 21, 2015 13:59
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come down to your local rsl for spit in your food sundays!
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Dec 21, 2015 14:04
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If people don't want to pay penalty rates they should just make people permanent part time employeehahahahahhahahaha nobody's ever going to have a permanent job ever again.
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Dec 21, 2015 14:58
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I've noticed for years that all the crappy jobs I did when I was young/at uni now seem to be staffed mainly by people in their forties and fifties. Servos, restaurants and retail are all filled with people who discovered there simply aren't jobs going anymore. All the traditional options are getting thinner on the ground unless you're in a professional career and, even then, you better hope it's not one about to be outsourced. So many still have that old mindset of hard work gets you there, be loyal to the company and they'll do right by you - all that "meat and veg morality" that just gets you nowhere anymore. One day I hope they all wake the hell up and stop voting LNP 
Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 15:28
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Cartoon posted:Entertainment, Hospitality and Retail. Utterly no surprises here. All Doug Cameron has been doing for the past few weeks is attacking the Greens. He said something to the effect of them being lucifer or making a deal with lucifer lol. From the man who voted to lock up and torture kids then voted to arrest anyone speaking out about it. Not surprised at all they are once again going after the penalty rates of the poorest paid shift workers. The way things are going all we can hope for is that the Libs don't get a majority in the senate I guess.
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Dec 21, 2015 22:23
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Gorilla Salad posted:I've noticed for years that all the crappy jobs I did when I was young/at uni now seem to be staffed mainly by people in their forties and fifties. I've voted Labor and I've voted Dems, but you have my assurance I've never voted LNP.
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Dec 21, 2015 22:35
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Starshark posted:I've voted Labor and I've voted Dems, but you have my assurance I've never voted LNP. Meet half way and vote Liberal Democrats?
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Dec 21, 2015 22:44
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Gorilla Salad posted:So many still have that old mindset of hard work gets you there, be loyal to the company and they'll do right by you - all that "meat and veg morality" that just gets you nowhere anymore. This was never a thing. It's an extension of the protestant work ethic co-opted by capitalists to make their workers feel like there is some pride to be had in working your hands to the bone to make money for someone else. As much as it might not seem like it, you still have a better chance of getting out of the working class now than you did then. open24hours fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 23:21
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open24hours posted:As much as it might not seems like it, you still have a better chance of getting out of the working class now than you did then. Not as quickly though. 
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Dec 21, 2015 23:41
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Not as quickly though. what happened in 1971?
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Dec 21, 2015 23:54
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Those graphs are generally based on decreasing infant mortality rates, right? Like, the average man in 1890 was not dropping dead at 47.
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Dec 22, 2015 00:12
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KennyTheFish posted:what happened in 1971? The two data points are 1972 and 1977, so possibly Medicare in 1975?
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Dec 22, 2015 00:40
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freebooter posted:Those graphs are generally based on decreasing infant mortality rates, right? Like, the average man in 1890 was not dropping dead at 47. Part of it, this page has a lot more info (2011 is what showed up when I searched, I imagine there's a newer one somewhere): http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Main+Features10Mar+2011 In regards to the "what happened in 1971?", it's not specifically mentioned on that page, but it looks like the ever increasing death rate from circulatory disease was probably the cause for the dip. It peaked right around then before falling fast. Right at the peak, it looks like it was increasing so fast it was cancelling out the other improvements in health care that were increasing life expectancy. I can only imagine that smoking is the cause. It looks like the first big anti-smoking pushes in Australia started in the late 60s/early 70s.
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Dec 22, 2015 00:58
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Real reason the mortaility rate dropped so much in the mid 70s: the Life Be In It campaign started in 1975.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:36
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freebooter posted:What counts as Entertainment? Cartoon fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 02:05
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The Federal Anti-Environment Minister has approved the Abbot Point coal port expansion: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-22/massive-abbot-point-coal-port-expansion-gets-federal-approval/7047380
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Dec 22, 2015 02:27
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^OOOO OOOO OOOO I'm so very very loving shocked. Nice timing too Hunt you scum bag. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-22/federal-assistance-package-for-illawarra-steelworkers-under-fire/7047878 quote:Federal assistance package for Illawarra steelworkers under fire By Nick McLaren Posted 45 minutes ago  Michaelia you are now only almost entirely worthless.
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Dec 22, 2015 02:53
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Gorilla Salad posted:I've noticed for years that all the crappy jobs I did when I was young/at uni now seem to be staffed mainly by people in their forties and fifties. I've noticed this too, heaps of checkout operators are really old. Probably a couple of reasons, one would be the lack of better jobs around so they're forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel and do the crappy jobs formerly reserved for young people, and the other is that maybe the support services like the pension aren't sufficient any more for people to live on alone.
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Dec 22, 2015 02:58
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Employers being subsidised to employ older people might have something to do with it too. http://www.employment.gov.au/restart
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Dec 22, 2015 03:12
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKRQD04dviU
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Dec 22, 2015 04:18
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You Am I posted:The Federal Anti-Environment Minister has approved the Abbot Point coal port expansion: So... what? is it going ahead? Isn't it? I keep reading articles that contradict each other; last week they were saying that it was unlikely that they would be able to secure the environmental permissions to go ahead, now they're saying it will? But before that, there were a ton of articles suggesting that financiers and banks were pulling out but now I guess they've secured the capital? And then there was the environmental impact to a species of skink that made Abbott want to change the requirements to get environmental approval but I thought changes to those laws weren't passed yet? Is there any one source that documents all the different threats to this expansion to date and how each were resolved? Does it look like, in the end, its going to go through? Because the series of articles that have pre-dated this news article implied strongly that all of these problems, in aggregate, were insurmountable but now this article says, nope, it's going ahead. It's so confusing and I thought I was relatively well-read on this expansion.
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Dec 22, 2015 05:06
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Whether or not it goes ahead, when a major project flip-flops this much you can bet it's going to be a disaster. Usually if a big project makes a good amount of business sense, it gets rubber stamped through.
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Dec 22, 2015 05:20
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Serrath posted:So... what? is it going ahead? Isn't it? I keep reading articles that contradict each other; last week they were saying that it was unlikely that they would be able to secure the environmental permissions to go ahead, now they're saying it will? But before that, there were a ton of articles suggesting that financiers and banks were pulling out but now I guess they've secured the capital? And then there was the environmental impact to a species of skink that made Abbott want to change the requirements to get environmental approval but I thought changes to those laws weren't passed yet? You might be confused because the Abbot Point Coal Terminal is a separate but semi-connected project to Adani Coal Mine (which itself is probably broken up into a bunch of different but connected projects)
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Dec 22, 2015 05:50
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Going to ask the NSW government for a grant to develop https://www.noice.com.au as part of their anti-drugs strategy What do we say to drugs? NoIce
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Dec 22, 2015 06:03
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Dec 22, 2015 06:39
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Moody's looks like downgrading Abbot Point / Adani because coal is doing so poo poo in the market.
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Dec 22, 2015 06:47
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Why is it up to random bloggers to unearth astroturfing organisations like the Amy Gillett Foundation instead of professionals working in our media? https://medium.com/@lastwheel/foxes-in-charge-of-the-hen-house-6b503f34da15#.h9pbjxec8
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Dec 22, 2015 06:51
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Did I miss something or does that piece not offer any explanation as to why these titans of industry have conspired to stomp on the throats of cyclists?
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Dec 22, 2015 07:12
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my stepdads beer posted:Why is it up to random bloggers to unearth astroturfing organisations like the Amy Gillett Foundation instead of professionals working in our media? Because the media are complicit in it?
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Dec 22, 2015 07:12
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Did I miss something or does that piece not offer any explanation as to why these titans of industry have conspired to stomp on the throats of cyclists? I'm guessing it's mostly because the people with the money to make this poo poo happen aren't the type that would profit from cyclists. But are the types that would profit from cars.
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Dec 22, 2015 08:18
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If working full time in a 5 of 7 day roster, should penalty rates be applied to sundays?
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Dec 22, 2015 08:21
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#thereABD posted:Woolworths targets Chinese shoppers with new online store on Tmall Global site
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Dec 22, 2015 08:23
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