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The Gerhardt kid might get a break.. especially since his entire family just took the fall. Attempted murder would be a worst case scenario, and he might get off even easier. I forget whether he's a juvenile or not. His sister, on the other hand, gave up information that got at least five people killed and almost more. And she knew that was exactly what she as doing. Sure, they were shits and criminals, and some of them were murderers, but that's a pretty wide swath for her to cut. I was surprised that the Solverson family got off so easily. Not a single tragic death, and their family friends were safe too I believe. Only Peggy's friend got totally screwed, and only Hanzee on the "bad" side put off his karma for another 20 years. The bad guys mostly got got or Mackeyed, and the good guys rode off into the sunset, at least for a little bit. Ed made some sketchy decisions, danced with the devil, and paid for it. Karmically, his wife's and his fate should have been reversed. I wonder if that's how the aliens wanted it, because they definitely meddled at the end there.
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Dec 20, 2015 05:02
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i don't know if this makes the show "good" but im enjoying hearing people's varying yet logical interpretations of different characters and their fates/arcs/motivations/etc. i like that they left some interesting ambiguities and grey areas for almost everyone. even for a character like hanzee where we now know what will happen to him in 25 years or so, there are still some unanswered questions regarding his motivations and his past. good poo poo imo
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Dec 20, 2015 05:44
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One particularly unusual thing this season was its running themes of female empowerment and women's turmoils within the male power structures of years gone by. The three main figureheads of that theme, Peggy, the Gerhardt matron and Simone, are controversial figures at best who used their chance at elevation for destructively selfish reasons and ultimately paid the price for their callous decisions. It's rare for such progressive concepts to be aligned mostly with the antagonists, for lack of better word.
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Dec 20, 2015 06:23
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MrBuddyLee posted:I was surprised that the Solverson family got off so easily. Not a single tragic death, and their family friends were safe too I believe.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:24
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hard counter posted:One particularly unusual thing this season was its running themes of female empowerment and women's turmoils within the male power structures of years gone by. The three main figureheads of that theme, Peggy, the Gerhardt matron and Simone, are controversial figures at best who used their chance at elevation for destructively selfish reasons and ultimately paid the price for their callous decisions. It's rare for such progressive concepts to be aligned mostly with the antagonists, for lack of better word. I thought Floyd was the female antagonist that seized power not because she wanted it, but because she felt she had to to keep her family from being run into the ground by Dodd's idiocy during open war. Her face after claiming temporary power I felt betrayed pain and duty, not pride and vanity. I thought her comeuppance was more of a cosmic reward for stubbornly refusing to accept the terms of a more globalized drug/human trafficking network. She and the rest of the Gerhardts were literally stepped on by Big Business. I agree with you on Peggy and Simone though.
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Dec 20, 2015 15:44
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hard counter posted:One particularly unusual thing this season was its running themes of female empowerment and women's turmoils within the male power structures of years gone by. The three main figureheads of that theme, Peggy, the Gerhardt matron and Simone, are controversial figures at best who used their chance at elevation for destructively selfish reasons and ultimately paid the price for their callous decisions. It's rare for such progressive concepts to be aligned mostly with the antagonists, for lack of better word. On the other hand Lou was always right and had plot armor, Hanzee was a persecuted Indian death machine, Mike Milligan won convincingly in every way, Ed was way saner and had the way better plan B when Peggy hit the Gerhardt boy, and Dodd had a pretty good point about strong arm tactics to fend off Kansas City. The downfall characters were the 1 episode dudes who died or looked stupid due to their own personality flaws like the police chief of South Dakota, that wormy detective dude that hung out with Lou, the Gerhardt boy that got hit by Peggy, and I guess the shop owner (snitches get stitches).
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Dec 20, 2015 17:26
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Doltos posted:On the other hand Lou was always right and had plot armor, Hanzee was a persecuted Indian death machine, Mike Milligan won convincingly in every way, Ed was way saner and had the way better plan B when Peggy hit the Gerhardt boy, and Dodd had a pretty good point about strong arm tactics to fend off Kansas City. These are some... interesting interpretations. Mike Milligan didn't win. He did everything he was asked to do successfully and, for all intents and purposes, got poo poo on for it. He thought he was going to be a king, and instead he's an office drone. Meanwhile, Dodd is responsible for almost all of the bloodshed with Kansas City. Brad Garrett's character flat out tells Floyd that he would have been down with her deal if Dodd hadn't started a war. Dodd and Milligan were both artifacts of an older age and too wrapped up in their own identities to see it.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:02
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Doltos posted:that wormy detective dude that hung out with Lou I liked his character. He was a "go along to get along" kind of cop, completely unprepared to deal with the horror and violence that were unleashed in his tiny world, but he stepped up -- better late than never.
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Dec 20, 2015 22:41
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Paradoxish posted:These are some... interesting interpretations. Milligan totally won it's just that his outcome didn't work out. He utterly conquered the Gerhardt territory through constantly being in the right place at the right time (and getting a little luck on his side). He also took the steps necessary to avoid getting whacked too. Dodd on the other hand didn't want the deal. Floyd was trying to become a subsidiary of Kansas City and would have ended up in a Mike Milligan role. Dodd said gently caress that and decided to go to war, which again the outcome didn't work out, but the idea behind it wasn't right or wrong. North Dakota was Gerhardt territory, Kansas City would have had to fought years for it and may not have won on the cost to risk ratio. Dodd was prepared to shed blood for his dad's legacy, Floyd was prepared to sell it to protect her family. Either way Dodd's plan was working fine until Peggy snuck up on him somehow. He had his family in line, had just had a successful ambush against Kansas City, Hanzee had the whole thing figured out, and the only reason it keep going was because Hanzee betrayed Dodd.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:16
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Doltos posted:Milligan totally won it's just that his outcome didn't work out. He utterly conquered the Gerhardt territory through constantly being in the right place at the right time (and getting a little luck on his side). He also took the steps necessary to avoid getting whacked too. Yes, but to Milligan, the outcome was what determined whether he won or lost.
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Dec 21, 2015 03:14
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Doltos posted:Milligan totally won it's just that his outcome didn't work out. He utterly conquered the Gerhardt territory through constantly being in the right place at the right time (and getting a little luck on his side). He also took the steps necessary to avoid getting whacked too. Milligan's victory was sort of Pyrrhic. He succeeded in being the smartest and coolest (and tbh luckiest) guy in the trenches, but his only reward was an IBM Selectric, that banal piece of 1980s office hardware that just coincidentally set in motion the circumstances by which he was able to look like any kind of hero. It's a great bit of dramatic irony, and I'd love to see him show up in later Fargo stories.
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Dec 21, 2015 03:17
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The Milligan end felt almost too much like The Shield
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Dec 21, 2015 05:40
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Milligan should have negotiated for travel time + expenses. That way he could have visited his territories all he liked and still reaped the benefits of being a kingpin in Minnesota.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:12
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You should prob spoiler that, I'd hate to have run into that post in the middle of watching it. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 07:20
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Wafflecopper posted:You should prob spoiler that, I'd hate to have run into that post in the middle of watching it. Yeah, that's what happened to me when Sepinwall dropped the same reference in his review.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:33
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Wafflecopper posted:You should prob spoiler that, I'd hate to have run into that post in the middle of watching it.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:36
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KoRMaK posted:Why did you pick this post to respond like that to? Theres been tons of stuff already talked about in this thread. Also, why read the thread if you are worried about spoilers. Because it's a spoiler for an entirely different show. It'd be like if I spoiled The Force Awakens here. Nobody comes to this thread expecting they have to worry about that.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:04
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Wafflecopper posted:You should prob spoiler that, I'd hate to have run into that post in the middle of watching it. I would agree except that putting spoiler tags around the name of the show makes it impossible to know what is going to be spoiled if you un-spoiler it. It's Schrödinger's Spoiler: until you un-spoil the text, you don't know if the spoiler spoils a show you haven't seen/don't want spoiled or not, at which point it's too late.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:33
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Lutha Mahtin posted:Milligan's victory was sort of Pyrrhic. He succeeded in being the smartest and coolest (and tbh luckiest) guy in the trenches, but his only reward was an IBM Selectric, that banal piece of 1980s office hardware that just coincidentally set in motion the circumstances by which he was able to look like any kind of hero. It's a great bit of dramatic irony, and I'd love to see him show up in later Fargo stories. I assume that the typewriter was left over as a secretary had worked in that offices. "Bosses" never used typewriters - only secretaries did. You'd hand write something, or dictate it. That era was also transitioning from typewriters to word processors, again done by a special pool of workers. I know by the late 70's IT pros had computer terminals in their offices, connecting directly to IBM's running TSO for example, or other systems like Prime. I think they were also starting to be used with accounting. I wrote an 'interactive' budget entry system for TSO so departments to enter and 'play with' next year's budgets back in the late 70's. So if he was working with accounting, and they were a cutting edge corp, he should have a TSO terminal, maybe even a hard-copy one with the thermal paper. Internal email-systems (LAN based) didn't start showing up until the mid-80s, and then they were normally at a department level - not on everyone's desk.
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Dec 21, 2015 15:18
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centaurtainment posted:I would agree except that putting spoiler tags around the name of the show makes it impossible to know what is going to be spoiled if you un-spoiler it. It's Schrödinger's Spoiler: until you un-spoil the text, you don't know if the spoiler spoils a show you haven't seen/don't want spoiled or not, at which point it's too late. hmm if only there were more than one way to arrange words in the english language Did anyone else feel that Mike Milligan's ending was similar in a lot of ways to (spoilers for older HBO show) Mackey's from The Shield? Thanks a lot, by the way guys I was using this Christmas break to catch up on The Shield so really, it's great to have found out the ending to the very last episode, having just finished season 2, while perusing the Fargo thread. Much appreciated 
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Dec 21, 2015 19:06
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speshl guy posted:hmm if only there were more than one way to arrange words in the english language I mean, yeah, but that's not as funny. Better to just say up front "spoilers for The Shield" and then spoiler out the rest of the text in the post.
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Dec 21, 2015 19:16
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PowerBuilder3 posted:I assume that the typewriter was left over as a secretary had worked in that offices. "Bosses" never used typewriters - only secretaries did. You'd hand write something, or dictate it. i would guess that a show so rich with allusions and symbolism probably used the typewriter model that kicked off Milligan's rise to hero status as a symbol of irony. your idea of the show writers commissioning a huge expensive survey of American office workers from the late 70s about what objects they had in their office relative to their job position, in order to design the set for a one minute epilogue scene in their show, is interesting too though
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Dec 21, 2015 19:38
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i would guess that a show so rich with allusions and symbolism probably used the typewriter model that kicked off Milligan's rise to hero status as a symbol of irony. your idea of the show writers commissioning a huge expensive survey of American office workers from the late 70s about what objects they had in their office relative to their job position, in order to design the set for a one minute epilogue scene in their show, is interesting too though I like to think it's symbolic Mike got an unexpected surprise both early in the season and at the end. One was literally up the rear end. The second more figurative. speshl guy posted:hmm if only there were more than one way to arrange words in the english language I know. I got pissy when someone told me who shot J.R. Is there a set number of years since a show aired when we're allowed to discuss details without spoilers? Because The Shield ended 7 years ago.
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Dec 21, 2015 20:06
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Krispy Kareem posted:Is there a set number of years since a show aired when we're allowed to discuss details without spoilers? Because The Shield ended 7 years ago. I'd say standard 'don't be a dick' rules apply. If something's completely, unavoidably absorbed by culture to the point that it's impossible not to know, then whatever. But if there's a chance someone doesn't know then what's the harm in black barring it? 7 years isn't that loving long. I've never seen an episode of The Shield and I probably never will, but I don't think everyone and anyone has carte blanche to decide what is and isn't ok to spoil.
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Dec 21, 2015 20:11
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Colonel Henry Blake's helicopter crashed into a mountain. There were no survivors.
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Dec 21, 2015 20:33
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Someone posted a much more significant spoiler to Sopranos a page or two back and no one ga e a poo poo. Saying two episodes are similar isn't really going to mean anything. Calm down, people
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Dec 21, 2015 20:38
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Steve2911 posted:7 years isn't that loving long. I've never seen an episode of The Shield and I probably never will, but I don't think everyone and anyone has carte blanche to decide what is and isn't ok to spoil. The bigger issue that nobody has pointed out is: The Shield wasn't on HBO, it was on FX! C'mon guys, it was the first of their original shows and basically directly lead to stuff like Fargo! It also makes the original spoiler hilariously more inaccurate, since you could be sitting there wracking your brain over what non-existent HBO show could be getting spoiled.
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Dec 21, 2015 20:45
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Guy A. Person posted:The bigger issue that nobody has pointed out is: The Shield wasn't on HBO, it was on FX! C'mon guys, it was the first of their original shows and basically directly lead to stuff like Fargo! I get The Shield mixed up with that other critically acclaimed show that I never watched - The Wire. Wire spoiler! Omar dies. Maybe that's where the HBO confusion comes in.
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Dec 21, 2015 20:56
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I just watched both seasons in the span of 30 hours. I guess the show was kinda good. But Season 2 was way better than season 1, which dragged on a bit and felt like it took itself to serious. In season 2 the show embraced how absurd some parts where. That stupid "real story" bullshit really got on my nerves though. Probably one of the best 20 shows I watched this year.
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Dec 21, 2015 21:36
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Air is lava! posted:That stupid "real story" bullshit really got on my nerves though. It's literally just the opening credits. Why's that a problem?
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Dec 21, 2015 21:49
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Air is lava! posted:In season 2 the show embraced how absurd some parts where. hmm 
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Dec 21, 2015 21:57
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I just hate it when a fictional thing keeps claiming that it's real. And this show goes out of its way just to tell you explicitly how real it is. I don't know if anyone actually believes that stuff, but to me it just feels like a silly lie. I don't want to be lied to by the opening credits. If you dislike stuff like that, it can be really annoying to see it twenty times in short succesion. The unneccesary split screens where great, though. That isn't really a contradiction, if that's what you are implying. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 22:02
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Air is lava! posted:I just hate it when a fictional thing keeps claiming that it's real. And this show goes out of its way just to tell you explicitly how real it is. I don't know if anyone actually believes that stuff, but to me it just feels like a silly lie. I don't want to be lied to by the opening credits. i really hate watching law and order. that fucker has said "these are their stories" hundreds of times buy its not cops and lawyers on the show, they're only actors!!!!
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Dec 21, 2015 22:07
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Air is lava! posted:I just hate it when a fictional thing keeps claiming that it's real. And this show goes out of its way just to tell you explicitly how real it is. I don't know if anyone actually believes that stuff, but to me it just feels like a silly lie. I don't want to be lied to by the opening credits. Spoiler: It's not trying to convince you or lie to you. It's just for fun, and because the movie did it. Again, for fun.
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Dec 21, 2015 22:10
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Air is lava! posted:I just hate it when a fictional thing keeps claiming that it's real. And this show goes out of its way just to tell you explicitly how real it is. I don't know if anyone actually believes that stuff, but to me it just feels like a silly lie. I don't want to be lied to by the opening credits. Sarcasm aside, does it help that the show does this as a nod to the film Fargo?
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Dec 21, 2015 22:11
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I wonder if the type writer was from the guy the young Gerhardt was trying to form a business with.
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Dec 21, 2015 23:22
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I don't know what you guys are talking about, all of this actually happened. You aren't allowed to lie about this kind of thing
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Dec 22, 2015 00:15
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DID SOME MOTHERFUCKER SERIOUSLY JUST SPOIL *M*A*S*H* FOR ME? *flips over table* Also, the shield aired on FX, not HBO.
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Dec 24, 2015 08:18
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I was more upset at Sepinwall for doing it, since this past summer on his podcast he advocated for The Shield and his recommendation (and especially his assessment of its finale as one of the best ever) is what kickstarted me watching it. Then he drops a finale spoiler in his Fargo review. I feel like I have some right to be pissed about that.
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Dec 24, 2015 08:58
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The Korean War is so ignored they had to make it Vietnam to grab people's interest. There I spoiled MASH for you.
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Dec 24, 2015 10:39
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