|
ZypherIM posted:I think the chick kenobi was hitting up in clone wars was mandalorian  please tell me this show isn't canon
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 03:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:00 |
|
|
Ok, second viewing done. A few thoughts. First, why is every theatre packed with fat nerds in capes? Second -- Snoke and Max von Sydow must be old acquaintances. For one, Han and Leia recall & discuss Snoke; Han warns Ben that Snoke is "using him for his [Ben's] power and will discard him when done" -- so Snoke was around, and publicly known, during Ben's training/turning. Sydow, before being killed, is remarked to "have aged" (paraphrase) by Kylo/Ben; and Sydow tells Ben/Kylo something about his roots. So, we have been given huge, if subtle, foreshadowing for a preceding relationship between Sydow and Snoke. I'd suggest Sydow is Rey's father or guardian, a 2nd-gen Kenobi (Rey being the third), because the Skywalker lineage is so damned obvious it seems begging for a twist. On the other hand, Rey is a natural and studied pilot, and Ben Kenobi is famous for hating piloting/flying. So, maybe not. Maybe she's a nobody. Still TBD. But otherwise: why is Sydow hiding/hanging (whichever) on Jakku? Another Kenobi/Luke parallel. Why does Sydow suddenly have Luke's whereabouts; how did the First Order discover the Resistance was close to getting this -- with precisely enough detail to interrupt Poe's plan? On that note: Snoke demanded BB-8's destruction if the actual map couldn't be secured. Finding Luke isn't a priority for Snoke, but "preventing the rise of the jedi" is a top priority (quote, referencing need to bring Rey to Snoke - directed at Kylo, after her capture & resisting interrogation). Snoke knows an awful lot, and is an absentee hologram leader who was once well acquainted with a general in the resistance. What does this imply about his origins? Next- Porkins 2.0 briefly reports that he scouted Starkiller base -- that's how the Resistance knows about the solar oscillator, which prevents Starkiller base from exploding when it's charging. And despite Han's worries about being tracked by the First Order, there is a brief dialogue mention involving Hux that a "resistance scout was tracked to the ____ system" (forgot the name). So Snacks Wexley is to blame for the Resistance's impending destruction... However, why is the Star Wars universe suddenly so small? I'll accept the hand-waving that SK-Base's doomsday weaponry is bright enough to be visible from many, many systems away (neglecting, even, speed of light etc. etc.). That said -- Kylo Ren is aboard a star destroy orbiting SK-Base when the weapon is fired; Han & co. are watching planetary destruction from Maz's base; literally 5 minutes later Ren is dismounting a shuttle 90 feet from Maz's castle. How loving small is the galaxy, then? Ok, on that note -- Snoke emphasizes, and Hux echoes repeatedly, that priority No. 1 is preventing the Luke-map from reaching the Resistance. What sort of laid-back leader is Snoke to permit Ren to clear Maz's planet (which has been run by her for 1,000 years, according to Han, so there's another lazy Yoda parallel) instead of, say, just obliterating the loving thing? It's not like the Resistance lacked options or means. Yeah, plot plot plot, movie needs to have a reason to exist, but still. At the very least, Hux being not an idiot (Am I setting myself up for contradiction?) would use Ren's selfish maneuvering to mount a power play of his own (Ren's obsessed with the map, clear from multiple angles). Hux is no fan of Ren. His supreme confidence in the power of SK-Base is a nice ANH/Tarkin echo that is actually played played through, rather than spoon fed to the audience. He'd clearly be happier with Ren out of the way. And ironically if Ren weren't involved, the First Order would've been successful in their attempts to end the Resistance. Lastly, Last scene: I counted six transitions to/from Rey and Luke before the helicopter vantage shot. Six. In the theatre I was laughing a bit, waiting for the credits as I counted, then JJ leaned over from the seat next to me and started jabbing me in the ribs and bits of half-chewed popcorn bounced off my face as he whispered, "get it? get it?" Zeris fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
Roman Reigns posted:
100% canon
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
Roman Reigns posted:
its one of the few things that is. well according to the new star map alot of the kotor planets are canon. so who knows 
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 03:58
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Han/Leia's kid is right out I think, since they are open about their evil kid and regret sending him off, it seems way out of character to have hidden a daughter on a desert imperial world and never mention her. On the other hand, the movie went out of its way to paint Rey and Han as equals when it comes to mechanical skill. Maybe it runs in the family?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 03:59
|
|
|
Zeris posted:
I'm dumb and don't know anything about how movies are made, or scenes are put together. Please explain this to my stupid brain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
Can't Rey just be a super cool new person who just grew up a strong independent woman who don't need no Skywalker/Kenobi blood? That would be the best thing. Also I imagined that Finn was basically an REMF Marine; even the hardest of hardcore "every one of you is a rifleman first" Marines have cooks/REMFs. It's totally possible to be brought up in the Stormtroopers having hand-to-hand/sword/blaster training and still be a guard/sanitation/programmer guy. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:On the other hand, the movie went out of its way to paint Rey and Han as equals when it comes to mechanical skill. Maybe it runs in the family?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:07
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:I'm dumb and don't know anything about how movies are made, or scenes are put together. He's trying to say that JJ was beating us over the head with the fact that Luke and Rey are related. I don't necessarily see it that way, because I think the idea was for us to see these as similar characters, not (exclusively) as father/daughter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:07
|
|
|
Zeris posted:However, why is the Star Wars universe suddenly so small? I'll accept the hand-waving that SK-Base's doomsday weaponry is bright enough to be visible from many, many systems away (neglecting, even, speed of light etc. etc.). That said -- Kylo Ren is aboard a star destroy orbiting SK-Base when the weapon is fired; Han & co. are watching planetary destruction from Maz's base; literally 5 minutes later Ren is dismounting a shuttle 90 feet from Maz's castle. How loving small is the galaxy, then? It's explicitly stated the weapon is faster than light, and the only thing we know about where Kylo is when it's fired is that he can see the bolt arcing across his field of view. His ship is not shown anywhere near the starkiller, or anything else for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
Everblight posted:Can't Rey just be a super cool new person who just grew up a strong independent woman who don't need no Skywalker/Kenobi blood? That would be the best thing. Turns out Rey is the descendant from Obiwan and Padme. Of course Padme didn't die, (who dies from losing the will to live?) she went and hung out with Obi on Tatooine. The Force is strong in my family. My Father has it. I have it. My sister has it. My other half-sister also has it. Goffer fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:I'm dumb and don't know anything about how movies are made, or scenes are put together. Shot of Rey looking at Luke Shot of Luke turning around Shot of Rey looking at Luke, grabbing lightsaber, holding it out Shot of Luke looking at it, showing emotion Shot of Rey still holding lightsaber, showing emotion Shot of Luke, showing more emotion helicopter
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:He's trying to say that JJ was beating us over the head with the fact that Luke and Rey are related. I don't necessarily see it that way, because I think the idea was for us to see these as similar characters, not (exclusively) as father/daughter. Beating us over the head with emotions, not necessarily father/daughter relationship. My argument is that it was heavy handed, and detracted from the joy of the story because it was too "loud" for the point being made (that we're supposed to recognize their emotional climax).
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
I am perfectly willing to believe that Rey is a Skywalker, mainly because I am willing to believe she's related to Natalie Portman.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:23
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:On the other hand, the movie went out of its way to paint Rey and Han as equals when it comes to mechanical skill. Maybe it runs in the family? The thing is there are plenty of people shown to have technical savvy, so that is the only thing going on. The fact that neither Han nor Leia even hint about having other children is pretty big, and regrets about not keeping Ben close to home and that that might be part of the reason he fell to the dark side.. why the gently caress would they dump their other kid on a random imperial planet and not keep her somewhere near? Luke could have a reason to stick his kid into hiding, but knowing about Snoke I also have trouble seeing him stashing his kid in imperial territory. If Obiwon didn't know he had a kid, I can easily see a mandalorian dumping their kid on a desert planet for 15 years to "toughen them up" or some poo poo like that. The universe has always been as big as the plot needs, and hyperspace has always moved at the speed of plot. The only thing is, with everyone together in 1 group, there is no other group to cut away to to create the illusion that it is taking time. They might have been able to move some more scenes inside the falcon to pull the trick that ANH does with luke's training bit though. Maybe some stuff got cut?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:23
|
|
|
Kenobi was pretty comfortable in the Mos Eisley Cantina, like he was a regular there for some time. Maybe he thought it was his duty to repopulate the galaxy with his force sensitive babies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:28
|
|
|
Roman Reigns posted:
It is, but the odds of the films utilizing anything from secondary material in any significant way, let alone as the lead's origin, is zip. Film is the primary medium of Star Wars. Other media like cartoons, comics, and novels draw on the movies for a setting and cast to tell other stories with; it doesn't go the other way around. Motto fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:28
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:It's explicitly stated the weapon is faster than light, and the only thing we know about where Kylo is when it's fired is that he can see the bolt arcing across his field of view. His ship is not shown anywhere near the starkiller, or anything else for that matter. Less concerned about the weapon. And after all if it's faster than light, that actually makes sense w/ respect to its effects' visibility on planets like Maz's and Hosnian Prime (whose citizens watched it impact other nearby planets before their own demise). Ok, so Kylo Ren is 95% of the way to Maz's planet before they fire the Starkiller weapon? 98%? This goes back in the other direction, too-- General Leia receives news on a little circuitboard-looking news chip (or whatever) that SK-Base is charging again, for a shot at the Resistance base. Wait, what? They just finished their briefing to stage an attack on the base. And suddenly the Resistance has the ability to tell, up-to-the-second, when SK-Base is charging and where it's aiming? That would've been a useful line of intel to use, say, any time in the decade preceding its firing. Ok, energy signatures, whatever. Less concerned about the Star Wars universe technicalities, and more concerned about the hand-waving in storytelling we are being asked to swallow to carry the story forward. Mostly it's frustrating because I don't think it's all necessary to tell the story we've got before us. Look I am criticizing, mainly, JJ here. The above mentioned elements could've been revealed in their respective contexts with the same dramatic effect -- Leia et al didn't need to know (just yet; when the X-wings arrived they could've phoned home with improved observations) that the base was targeting them. The point I'm making is the already loosey goosey flexible physics of Star Wars are totally abandoned for a sloppily aimed-for A+ on storytelling, by JJ, rather than settling for just an A (see earlier point, revealing dramatic steps within respective contexts). I still had fun watching the movie. I paid to watch it twice. I will watch it many more times. But man, some of these moves on JJ's part seem poorly thought out, or poorly vetted. Or maybe ep VIII will prove there was a reason for everything that doesn't make sense now. Within a few minutes, real-time: Ren watches Starkiller Base fire its death volley to end the Republic, Han & Maz & Finn watch planets kaboom, Ren arrives on Maz's planet, X-Wings arrive on Maz's planet, rescue ensues. Zeris fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Roman Reigns posted:If you don't mind me asking, what are the factors pushing for Rey being a Kenobi? The greatest factor of all: wild speculation. Roman Reigns posted:
That show started 4 years before Disney bought Lucasfilm, so considering that they dumped that show and started a new one post-buyout I think it's safe to assume that its canon was flushed with all the other EU poo poo. The only possible exception is the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars miniseries, which aired between episode 2 and 3 and was supposed to tie into the latter, but even that's not really essential (and I think the other Clone Wars series was meant to zero that out). raditts fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:37
|
|
|
Roman Reigns posted:If you don't mind me asking, what are the factors pushing for Rey being a Kenobi? * Ewan McGreggor's voice in her force vision (actor that played obi wan) * At the end of the movie she's giving Luke his light saber (It's not becoming her own like it was passed down a family line) * Apparently Obi Wan did have a love interest when he was younger (some mandalorian princess during the clone wars) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lGETyUkjdo I'm not saying I agree with it. But this is some of the things people have been saying.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
Zeris posted:Within a few minutes, real-time: Yes. Both Republic and First Order agents had been watching for the reappearance of the fugitives. We see them both call their respective governments. Some time passes, and the weapon is fired. Kylo and a "division" of Stormtroopers arrive mere minutes before a Resistance fighter squadron. I don't understand why the weapon firing in this time frame is implausible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:45
|
|
|
I don't think anyone besides Karen Traviss would be happy to have Rey turn out to be part MandalorianDapper_Swindler posted:well did obi-wan ever gently caress anyone? He doesn't seem like the type who would break the code. i mean maybe he hosed some barfly while watching after luke, but other then that. I dont think he has any siblings. unless you go by very very old pre-prequel canon that said owen lars was his brother. i mean maybe the obi won spin offs will explain it. I was pretty disappointed by AOTC revealing that Owen was literally Luke's uncle (step uncle?) by marriage since it was way more interesting of an idea to have Owen be Kenobi's brother who hates that he became a jedi and desperately wants to keep Luke away from him. With Jakku being a battleground it would have been interesting to have her parents being Imperials or Imp syphathizers who hid out on the planet before being arrested by the New Republic, explaining her British/Imperial accent. This would be an interesting tweak to her backstory and give some reason for her to not be fully on board with the Resistance. Sushi in Yiddish fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:47
|
|
|
Watermelon City posted:Obi-wan would have been a pretty old dad for that to be true. Rey would also be 40 by the time TFA starts. Do the people suggesting this, or that she is Dooku's granddaughter or something, not understand age or time?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:51
|
|
|
It is that she was obiwon's granddaughter, not daughter. Which only requires his kid to have a kid at around 20. Not sure why anyone is confused by that haha.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Rey would also be 40 by the time TFA starts. Do the people suggesting this, or that she is Dooku's granddaughter or something, not understand age or time? Grand daughter is what people are talking about. ZypherIM posted:It is that she was obiwon's granddaughter, not daughter. Which only requires his kid to have a kid at around 20. Yeah.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:54
|
|
|
I am pretty sure Rey is a Skywalker. In her flashback you can clearly hear Max Von Sydow's character saying "come with me, girl." She was probably dropped off there to keep her from Snoke and Ren.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:56
|
|
|
raditts posted:The greatest factor of all: wild speculation. it's entirely canon
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 04:58
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Rey would also be 40 by the time TFA starts. Do the people suggesting this, or that she is Dooku's granddaughter or something, not understand age or time? I understand accents. Obi Wan talked funny and so does Rey. She can be his grandbaby. If Jango and Boba can sound identical then so can the clan Kenobi. Dialects are genetic, right? Did Obi Wan ever do the "hand stretched out give me that drat lasersword" move in the movies?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:00
|
|
|
Rey is Luke and Leia's baby. It's pretty obvious people. He didn't find out they were related for quite awhile, and siblings who weren't raised together frequently become sexually attracted when they finally meet. It also explains why Han and Leia broke up. She was dumped on the planet because Luke and Leia were ashamed of their incest baby. Kylo Ren found out about his baby sister being abandoned, and blamed his dad. He even said he wasn't much of a father.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:01
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:I am pretty sure Rey is a Skywalker. In her flashback you can clearly hear Max Von Sydow's character saying "come with me, girl." She was probably dropped off there to keep her from Snoke and Ren. Not sure why you're using spoiler tags. Another thing that lends credence to Rey being a Skywalker is that in the flashback, you see Kylo and his gang kill a Jedi, and then it's them vs. Rey. Except it was probably 5-year-old Rey, and we'll most likely find out in the next movie how she managed to escape.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
raditts posted:
Nope Lucas was heavily involved in it and Disney stated it was still canon after the buy out. The new series Rebels is even made by a lot of the same people and has characters from the Clone Wars show up in it. The series also gave me appreciation for a lot of Prequel characters. (Minus Dooku who I was always fond of if only because of Christopher Lee.) The show was good and it brought Darth Maul back to life and did stuff with him. (And as of the new canon he is still alive.) It's successor series Rebels is also good. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Rey is Luke and Leia's baby. Got to be this. When force users have incest babies you don't get birth defects but over-powered force users. This is their destiny.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:I am pretty sure Rey is a Skywalker. In her flashback you can clearly hear Max Von Sydow's character saying "come with me, girl." She was probably dropped off there to keep her from Snoke and Ren. We're in the spoiler thread, it is ok man. I'm still not sure why you'd hide her on an imperial world to hide her from Snoke, instead of somewhere else that isn't under their control.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Yes. Both Republic and First Order agents had been watching for the reappearance of the fugitives. We see them both call their respective governments. Some time passes, and the weapon is fired. Kylo and a "division" of Stormtroopers arrive mere minutes before a Resistance fighter squadron. I don't understand why the weapon firing in this time frame is implausible. You don't have to understand whether it's implausible, since that is not my argument. It's just weak storytelling for all the coincidences to line up at once. For instance, we don't have issues that SK-Base's fracturing separates Ren and Rey right as she is about to deliver a killing blow. It's necessary for good storytelling, and if we're being honest with ourselves, we'd be disappointed to see Ren die so soon in this trilogy -- his arc is clearly aiming further than a single film can support. On the other hand, it seems odd that the huge world-killing device under construction for...years? Decades? Is seemingly fired on whimsical suggestion by Hux. The dialogue is, more or less, "Hey Snoke, I think it's time to shoot the thing we spend all this time and money building, to kill the government supporting the resistenace who might get Luke's info which you have said would be a Very Bad Thing to have happen". Snoke says yeah. Then Ren goes and, instead of following through with Snoke's intent (cripple/kill Resistance, prevent Luke's whereabouts from reaching them), tries to have his cake and eat it too. And it spectacularly backfires. This gives us a very entertaining sequence of events, but it comes at the cost of poo poo making any sense. Also you state "some time passes" which is bullshit. Three seconds pass. Han goes outside to look for Rey, and sees explosions, and TIE fighters are overhead shortly. They don't have time to catch up or look for Rey before they're in a battle. It's bad storytelling. Enjoyable, but bad storytelling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:We're in the spoiler thread, it is ok man. Was Jakku under anybody's control? I thought it was too much of a poo poo-hole to really warrant that kind of permanent attention.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:07
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Was Jakku under anybody's control? I thought it was too much of a poo poo-hole to really warrant that kind of permanent attention. According to other posters summarizing supplementary material, Jakku is the site where the Rebellion struck the finishing blow to the Empire. I imagine it's some middle-of-nowhere planet like Tatooine where the only resource of significant value is leftover battle wreckage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:09
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Rey is Luke and Leia's baby. Did anyone think to take a close look at how many fingers she has?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:11
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Was Jakku under anybody's control? I thought it was too much of a poo poo-hole to really warrant that kind of permanent attention. Apparently it was the site of the final battle of the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant. The Imperial Remnant wanted to take it to prove they still had stuff going for them by taking the planet. (Guess they were going to turn it into a base or something) The New Republic attacked and decisively defeated the Remnant resulting in the Remnant surrendering and a treaty being signed between them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:11
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:The force ghost of Luke's hand should get its own novel series. quote:It was 11 ABY, seven years after the Battle of Endor. At the Palace of the New Republic on Coruscant, a four-year-old Anakin Solo was having trouble sleeping. His mother Leia Organa Solo persuaded Han Solo to talk to Anakin, since he was unwilling to confide in his mother.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:00 |
|
|
ZypherIM posted:We're in the spoiler thread, it is ok man. I guess we'll need to find out from Luke in the next movie. I assume because he didn't want Leia to know she was there either, since Leia may be able to sense her. I thought Jakku was pretty far from Republic/Resistance as well as First Order space.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 05:12
|
|