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Helene Bergerot is a very nice lady with an unenviable job but she can't really do anything.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:52
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so this is happening edit-beaten Lunsku posted:The L3 maintaining magicjudges.org (a third party judge site I understand) has suspended it in protest: Madmarker fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 21:53
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Did none of you aside from Zoness try to look at this without immediately demonizing WotC? Like, it seems pretty clear to me that what happened was: there were a bunch of leaks for a few sets now (eg this had been happening before OGW, in like, I dunno, KTK and DTK: maybe they revealed mantis rider or something). WotC learned that all of the people in this group knew about the leaks and told no one. So in response, in order to send a message that not telling on leakers will get you in trouble (though not legal trouble), they gave these people who deliberately refused to reveal the leak source a short suspension. Which is, uh, something they're well in their rights to do: judges aren't employees, regardless of the morality of that, and the DCI is allowed to unilaterally ban someone for any reason. They gave the actual leakers a much longer ban, so it seems like they exercised a bit of discretion. Is it probably a dumb move? Yeah. It looks like they tried to get everyone who knew about earlier leaks (like the theoretical KTK one I mentioned) and knew about the Wastes/Kozilek leak but said nothing. They apparently also got a bunch of people who had no clue about earlier leaks. I haven't actually seen any of the judges categorically deny that they knew about a source of leaks and didn't tell WotC, so this is just being charitable to the judges' point of view. It would be nice if WotC would actually say more than "this was happening over multiple sets", because it's also possible that they meant "these people were leaking stuff from multiple sets, and we banned everyone who ever associated with them" instead of the much more reasonable possibility I outlined above.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:59
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tbh the main ridiculously early leak i remember was the origins chandra one with like no corresponding event for it to be leaked either
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Dec 22, 2015 22:01
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I figure there had to be 1-2 card leaks in every spoiler season, and am way too uninvested in this to actually check
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Dec 22, 2015 22:05
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Several judges have mentioned that their ban came with no formal notice of investigation, which is a little odd considering some of the accused may have something to say to defend themselves? The reaction's a bit Judge Dredd to me.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:07
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GeneX posted:So in response, in order to send a message that not telling on leakers will get you in trouble (though not legal trouble), they gave these people who deliberately refused to reveal the leak source a short suspension. Which is, uh, something they're well in their rights to do: judges aren't employees, regardless of the morality of that, and the DCI is allowed to unilaterally ban someone for any reason. They gave the actual leakers a much longer ban, so it seems like they exercised a bit of discretion. Except that those involved, both in the chat room and on other social media, have stated that their knowledge of the leak was as tenuous as any who have had it linked on any other forms of social media. That is patently ridiculous, and is being treated with the respect and candor it deserves.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:14
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GeneX posted:Like, it seems pretty clear to me that what happened was: there were a bunch of leaks for a few sets now (eg this had been happening before OGW, in like, I dunno, KTK and DTK: maybe they revealed mantis rider or something). WotC learned that all of the people in this group knew about the leaks and told no one. This is not what happened hth.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:14
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Okay, cool, then it's a game of he-said/she-said.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:17
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GeneX posted:Did none of you aside from Zoness try to look at this without immediately demonizing WotC? Sorry no one liked your article last week, Trick.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:20
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the truly egregious part is that one of the judges suspended, upon seeing the leak in a Facebook group, immediately contacted Wizards to report it and try to help them find the source. No good deed, and so on.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:24
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lmao ocassional pro player Roberto Gonzales has been banned three years, he claims it was for tweeting a picture of the Kozilek leak
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Dec 22, 2015 22:28
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the truly egregious part is that one of the judges suspended, upon seeing the leak in a Facebook group, immediately contacted Wizards to report it and try to help them find the source. No good deed, and so on. He technically did spread knowledge of the leak around, even if it was to WoTC themselves!
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Dec 22, 2015 22:29
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GeneX posted:Okay, cool, then it's a game of he-said/she-said. Except it isnt? WotC stated that those who neither actively distributed or obtained the leak in the first place were suspended. This was because they failed to report leaks to Wizards in the past. Why is it the job of anyone but employees to do this? Why, when one person did take part in this proactive search for spoilers, were they suspended as well? There was no policy in place for judges to police social media for spoilers, and it seems pretty silly to even think about.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:30
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Sorry no one liked your article last week, Trick. Oh dear god no also that article was hilariously stupid pandering and WotC would be viewed better if they stopped trying to pretend that it's a moral imperative to not leak wizard cardboard pictures, but let's stay on the subject of what may or may not be another hilarious fuckup
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Dec 22, 2015 22:31
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Dec 22, 2015 22:31
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Patrick Chapin: Leaks are equivalent to arson. E:^^ 
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Dec 22, 2015 22:32
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the mind that played thought scour to enable gurmag angler
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Dec 22, 2015 22:32
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Deofuta posted:Except it isnt? WotC stated that those who neither actively distributed or obtained the leak in the first place were suspended. This was because they failed to report leaks to Wizards in the past. This is actually a leap of logic. The past sets thing isn't clear which is annoying on its own but it's not directly tied to any other activity either.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:33
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GeneX posted:Did none of you aside from Zoness try to look at this without immediately demonizing WotC? WotC is a multi-million dollar brand, not your friend. No one is accusing them of illegal activity, they're just being disproportionately massive dicks over some pictures of cardboard.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:35
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 Someone compare it to dealing ecstasy in response please
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Dec 22, 2015 22:36
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GeneX posted:
Just innovate.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:37
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Zoness posted:This is actually a leap of logic. The past sets thing isn't clear which is annoying on its own but it's not directly tied to any other activity either. I just read all the statements again and that is true, but then why were those who did not take actively take part in the spreading/obtaining of the spoilers suspended? If we do not extrapolate a reason from what is presented, then perhaps WotC should provide a reason. Obviously they do not have to provide one, but failing to do so can lead to ramifications seen today.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:37
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Pat Chapin: With respect Maro, perhaps this is a man that you don't fully understand, either. A long time ago, I was on Reddit. We were trying to build hype for a new set by slowly revealing cards. But our cards were being leaked by a judge. So, we went looking for the leaks. One day, I saw a child tweeting a picture of Kozilek, the Great Distortion. The leaker had been posting them on Twitter. Mark Rosewater: So why leak them? Pat Chapin: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:38
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Deofuta posted:I just read all the statements again and that is true, but then why were those who did not take actively take part in the spreading/obtaining of the spoilers suspended? If we do not extrapolate a reason from what is presented, then perhaps WotC should provide a reason. Obviously they do not have to provide a reason, but failing to do so can lead to ramifications seen today. Yeah I hope no one's arguing that WotC shouldn't have seen this coming/shouldn't be a hell of a lot more forthright about things like this getting a man named "trick" to write an article praising the moral righteousness of snitching and then banning a bunch of people with little explanation is pretty bad these are equally bad things, btw, trick is a bad nickname
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Dec 22, 2015 22:40
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during all of this remember that the great crime that was perpetrated was sharing an image of a game piece on social media
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Dec 22, 2015 22:42
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 Patrick Sullivan is just too loving likable. Also, tinfoil time. One of the guys who was suspended for 3 years has a podcast. http://mtgfocus.tumblr.com/post/135426608808/mtg-focus-episode-38-leaky-pipes About 35 minutes in they start talking about the leak. I feel like his opinions on this leak from the broadcast might have had something to do with his ban. Sickening fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 22:42
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Ciprian Maricon posted:during all of this remember that the great crime that was perpetrated was sharing an image of a game piece on social media if it were a crime people would go to jail and that would be a lot funnier tbh
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Dec 22, 2015 22:43
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Basically WotC sucks at handling everything and their PR is non-existent. This isn't news.Sickening posted:
This is good poo poo.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:43
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Somebody link the facebook thing already.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:45
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Bugsy posted:Somebody link the facebook thing already. Almost all the judge groups are closed group.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:46
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Sickening posted:
MTGFocus is the twitter account that first posted the leaks, isn't it?
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Dec 22, 2015 22:58
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:MTGFocus is the twitter account that first posted the leaks, isn't it? If you mean posted the leaks, you mean talk about it on twitter, then probably. Funny enough is that he called magic "his career" and in that podcast I linked he talked about how if he was banned it would kill his livelihood. Sickening fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 23:00
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i sent a jpeg of kozilek to my friend on gmail does that mean im a terrorist or whatever? 
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Dec 22, 2015 23:10
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GeneX posted:
If wotc were competent, they'd have iced the leaker from inside a jail cell. - Patrick "The Butcher" Chapin
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Dec 22, 2015 23:11
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Dungeon Ecology posted:i sent a jpeg of kozilek to my friend on gmail does that mean im a terrorist or whatever? I and every other Judge who posts are currently filling out your suspension as I type, lest we too be banned for failing to staunchly defend Wizards intellectual property.
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Dec 22, 2015 23:14
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I and every other Judge who posts are currently filling out your suspension as I type, lest we too be banned for failing to staunchly defend Wizards intellectual property. Joke's on you, your report of his suspension will be used as evidence against you.
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Dec 22, 2015 23:27
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Snacksmaniac posted:It still boils down to less than minimum wage, especially considering travel IIRC> SCG pays L2 judges a little over $150 per day to work at an Open Series event. I'm not saying you should quit your job and travel around the country to judge Magic for a living, but I don't really think the pay is unreasonably low.
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Dec 22, 2015 23:28
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Pepper Crab posted:SCG pays L2 judges a little over $150 per day to work at an Open Series event. I'm not saying you should quit your job and travel around the country to judge Magic for a living, but I don't really think the pay is unreasonably low. unless food and travel are also covered and they only work 8 hours on each day that seems really low to be honest On the other hand $150 to hang out w/ magic players and officiate some nerds is reasonable, depends on how fun the judging part is to you I guess.
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Dec 22, 2015 23:34
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Chill la Chill posted:Now is a great time to get into force of will which p much plays the same but is improved. Before all your cardboard is worthless. Just repeating this because of how true it is.
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Dec 22, 2015 23:37
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