|
You don't need to use every cheese tactic in the game to beat Tactics (or indeed anything I'd consider exploitative, like Mislead backstabs)
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 14:03 |
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:You don't need to use every cheese tactic in the game to beat Tactics (or indeed anything I'd consider exploitative, like Mislead backstabs) well hyperbole aside it is a lot less fair than SCS, you gotta admit that much
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
Dyna Soar posted:What do you think is bad about SCS, exactly? I just remember tactics making the battles unfairly hard while SCS has at least some sense in it. I mean you can make it unfairly hard if you want to, but if you just leave the default options on it's a challenge, not an impossible puzzle you need to use every cheese tactic in the game to solve. Improved Spiders are dumb and annoying. And there's that component that closes the cellar entrance to the Ogre Mage's hideout in Gullykin (in the house of the one Halfling that works with him), which unless you just Ctrl + J forces you to go through the entire Firewine Dungeon.  The buffed Beholders are pretty dumb because they can take your items away with telekinesis and do so regardless of LOS and distance. This includes the Shield of Balduran somehow. I don't remember much else about BG2, but I know there were some more bad components. Edit: I remember the upgraded Sahuagin being kind of lovely because there are just far too many of them for how much of an upgrade they all get. Just in general, going all the way with the pre-buffing settings makes Mage fights way too repetitive because there's not enough variety in their tactics and spellbooks. It just turns into a slog halfway through the game. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
Dyna Soar posted:well hyperbole aside it is a lot less fair than SCS, you gotta admit that much Well yeah that's the fun of it!
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
Wizard Styles posted:Well, just in BG1 you've got Silke, who pulls just about every trick a caster that has access to level 4 spells possibly could. Good thing that nobody cares about Garrick, because it makes him incredibly hard to recruit for quite a while. Silke wants you dead after you piss her off, she shouldn't have to hold back just because she's in Beregost. I usually don't bother with her anyway, she only has a Quarterstaff +1, it's not a huge prize. Improved Spiders are made a lot easier if you kill the Giant Spiders first, they're the ones with the Web ability. I actually like the Gullykin component, by far the biggest threat is the Human Mage and it lets you deal with him before you reach the Ogre-Mage. SCS does do some things very well, personally I find the Bandit Camp, Iron Throne and Davaeorn fights to be excellent and challenging encounters. I find the SCS Sahuagin City to be fairly straight-forward, they don't get buffed that much. The Tactics version is a lovely meat grinder though, thank god Weimer forgot to code a help script. Having the entire city attack you at once would make it virtually impossible. SCS Mages are a lot more varied than Tactics ones too, in Tactics every mage gets the exact same spellbook.That doesn't even cover the blatant cheating, like spawning potions at will or having uninterruptable insta-cast spells whenever they want. I agree somewhat with your point about the Beholders, the Telekinesis doesn't bother me since I remove the Shield of Balduran anyway, but they can be overwhelming. Apparently, they are vulnerable to blindness, which stops their casting and causes other beholders to prioritize removing it, which makes perfect sense when you think about it. I've not got round to trying it yet though. At least they get some variety in their spellbooks in SCS. In the Ironman I did last year, Tolgerias being a Conjurer gave me a completely different fight than the one I had with the Necromancer Lavok, despite them being virtually back to back, and both having access to HLA's. (Thanks to an optional SCS component) It was a great pair of fights, challenging even though I was a little bit over-levelled IIRC. biscuits and crazy fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Dec 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 21:30
|
|
|
Ilyich posted:Silke wants you dead after you piss her off, she shouldn't have to hold back just because she's in Beregost. I usually don't bother with her anyway, she only has a Quarterstaff +1, it's not a huge prize. Improved Spiders are made a lot easier if you kill the Giant Spiders first, they're the ones with the Web ability. I actually like the Gullykin component, by far the biggest threat is the Human Mage and it lets you deal with him before you reach the Ogre-Mage. SCS does do some things very well, personally I find the Bandit Camp, Iron Throne and Davaeorn fights to be excellent and challenging encounters. I usually just tank Beholders with Polymorph: Mustard Jelly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 23:04
|
|
|
Yeah, that should work quite well. SCS Beholders will eventually change target to something they can hurt, if the behaviour of other creatures with SCS AI is any indication, but you should be able to get one of two down by the time that happens. They've not got all that much HP.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Well yeah that's the fun of it! Ilyich posted:Silke wants you dead after you piss her off, she shouldn't have to hold back just because she's in Beregost. I usually don't bother with her anyway, she only has a Quarterstaff +1, it's not a huge prize. Improved Spiders are made a lot easier if you kill the Giant Spiders first, they're the ones with the Web ability. I actually like the Gullykin component, by far the biggest threat is the Human Mage and it lets you deal with him before you reach the Ogre-Mage. SCS does do some things very well, personally I find the Bandit Camp, Iron Throne and Davaeorn fights to be excellent and challenging encounters. My issue with the Ogre Mage being impossible to reach directly is that Firewine Dungeon loving sucks due to the pathfinding being completely unable to handle the place, which in combination with lots of spawn traps just leads to constant attrition by Kobold Commandos. I wouldn't even go down there anymore without the teleport cheat. I don't really disagree about the Spiders and Sahuagin, they're doable, but when I installed those components I felt like I was wasting my time fighting those. More busywork than a challenge, which is also what my issue with excessive prebuffing Mages comes down to. Tolgerias is fun (I don't remember much about Lavok), but there are so many high-level Mages in the game, and at some point, going through stripping the same defensive spells while ducking/enduring the same debuffs and status effects over and over gets old. Like, I usually just feel done with SCS Liches after the second one, but there are, I don't know, 8 or 9 in total? This is in part an issue with BG2's encounter design, which isn't perfect and sometimes outright terrible, but I would have preferred SCS just giving the mages adds or other special abilities and weaker spell selections instead of just the same old spell routines. amanasleep posted:I usually just tank Beholders with Polymorph: Mustard Jelly. But Beholder fights are mostly binary and never all that interesting; you either know how to deal with them or you need to make too many saving throws. So I'll happily just leave them as they are and just by the shield. It's not like I miss out on amazing tactical challenges that way. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 00:12
|
|
|
How much longer until the new prequal is coming out? Any new news on that front at all?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 01:49
|
|
|
I like SCS in BG1, it adds challenge and variety imo. My problem is half way through BG2 when all the mages start to get access to high level spells it starts to get very samey because the number of useful or effective spells drops off. Lower levels there's a lot more variety because they could go with fireball, lightning bolt, confusion (or the low level version I can't remember the name), or maybe they have invisibility memorised instead, or some charm spells, etc. Higher levels its the same protection spells, the same damage spells, the same disabling spells and by TOB every mage has the spell slots to have all of them, plus the same spells stored in the same way in sequencers and contingencies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 01:49
|
|
|
SaavikSpocksDaddy posted:After purchasing Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 from GOG, I went onto their forums and looked up the mods for the games. Maybe try the widescreen mod? Did you buy the old versions or the Extended Editions? If you have EE I don't think those mods are compatible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 02:19
|
|
|
How's Neverwinter Nights 2? I hear Mask of the Betrayer is exceptional Obsidian fare, but what about the first bioware campaign? Also, I don't like hyperdifficult CRPGs - I play them for story, not to grind against unrelenting game mechanics - are they especially hard?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 17:52
|
|
|
Radio Talmudist posted:How's Neverwinter Nights 2? I hear Mask of the Betrayer is exceptional Obsidian fare, but what about the first bioware campaign? Also, I don't like hyperdifficult CRPGs - I play them for story, not to grind against unrelenting game mechanics - are they especially hard? The main campaign is ok but nothing to write home about. I think it's ugly as gently caress and the engine is poo poo, reasons why I never finished the OC or tried either of the expansions. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 17:54
|
|
|
Radio Talmudist posted:How's Neverwinter Nights 2? I hear Mask of the Betrayer is exceptional Obsidian fare, but what about the first bioware campaign? Also, I don't like hyperdifficult CRPGs - I play them for story, not to grind against unrelenting game mechanics - are they especially hard? Neverwinter Nights 2 vanilla is still Obsidian, it's just Obsidian trying to be Bioware. It's long and not very interesting - a few interesting ideas, but Act 1 is very long and very dull. If you can power through Act 1, especially the completely pointless ORCSORCSORCS diversion, Acts 2 and 3 are more interesting and better paced.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
Radio Talmudist posted:How's Neverwinter Nights 2? I hear Mask of the Betrayer is exceptional Obsidian fare, but what about the first bioware campaign? Also, I don't like hyperdifficult CRPGs - I play them for story, not to grind against unrelenting game mechanics - are they especially hard? Yeah, as everyone else said the first act is pretty brutal to get through, just turn down the difficulty and run through it. Then turn the difficulty back up to wherever you want it to be from act2 onwards. You can make some retardedly overpowered characters if you read the guides, something like a monk-red dragon disciple is easy and will wreck everything. I actually really like the story and found it to be pretty cool (act 1 excepted) just don't get attached to any of the obviously evil characters, in fact try to stick with the good guys, it's another one of the games major failings unfortunately. I'm the kind of person who usually plays an evil party so it ruined part of it for me but I've still played through it a few times since I'm a big DND nerd. You can read spoilers if you really want to play some of the evil dudes and figure out which ones are alright to keep. Mask of the betrayer is great as long as you mod out the starvation mechanic that they put in there for some stupid reason. But there is a magical college that is a huge pain in the rear end but totally skippable if you use a few cheats. You do need to read some spoilers ahead of time though because there are a few NPC's that can be added to the party who are awesome but easily missed, and right at the very beginning of the game. SoZ really changes a lot of the core mechanics and it's really necessary to use a few mods to make resting available anywhere and a thing called the rod of meta preppa that makes it so you don't have to constantly recast your buffs. Without those it would turn into a big slog since you would be having to constantly go back and rest and rebuff every time you load a new area. And again some spoilers are useful because the crafting mechanic in SoZ is completely different than the prior games. I think the story and stuff is still pretty great though and had a lot of fun with it once I got rid of the super annoying game mechanics. Also without mods you need two healers in the party instead of just one since resting is so much more infrequent. Washout fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Dec 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 20:20
|
|
|
NWN2 is generally good but very flawed (although it does have some extremely cool moments and set pieces). MOTB is a lot more interesting although it still has some questionable decisions. MOTB's characters are much better than base NWN2's - the original cast tends to feel very underdeveloped.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 21:59
|
|
|
I liked the base campaign's stable of walking clichés better than the weirdoes you got for followers in MotB. MotB in general just felt like it was way up its own rear end to me, while the base campaign was just dumb fun, which I was cool with. I realize that there aren't too many who share that opinion, though, MotB seems to be well-regarded generally or at least has a lot of vocal apostles. NWN2 in general is an okay game overall, both the base campaign and MotB have a lot of ups and downs. Also: Radio Talmudist posted:Also, I don't like hyperdifficult CRPGs - I play them for story, not to grind against unrelenting game mechanics - are they especially hard?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 22:13
|
|
Wizard Styles posted:I liked the base campaign's stable of walking clichés better than the weirdoes you got for followers in MotB. MotB in general just felt like it was way up its own rear end to me, while the base campaign was just dumb fun, which I was cool with. I realize that there aren't too many who share that opinion, though, MotB seems to be well-regarded generally or at least has a lot of vocal apostles. No, I agree. It's kind of the same as KOTOR2 - sure, it's interesting to see an exploration of the world the characters live in and the philosophy there, but it's also just kind of... yeah, up its own rear end.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
MOTB has the problem where its central conflict is so far removed from actual human experience that it's hard to relate to anything. I think maybe the writers got too caught up with asking questions about the cosmology of Forgotten Realms (but it may be more interesting if you care about that). That being said I didn't feel the starvation mechanic was overly restrictive, in the worst case you can suck it up and take the experience penalty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 22:41
|
|
|
To me, the inherent weirdness of MotB was one of its strongest aspects. Far too many fantasy settings are content with inserting a few magical creatures into a pseudo-medieval landscape and calling it a day, but here the developers succeeded in creating a world and characters that feel truly alien while still tying them to very basic, relatable human concepts, such as love, justice, and the fear of death. It's very much a story that requires you to play along, but it's very rewarding if you're willing to do so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 22:52
|
|
|
Don't get me wrong, I liked MOTB's central conflict - the idea of whether the Wall of the Faithless should exist or not - but I felt it was completely undermined when Kelemvor shows up and goes 'But Thou Can't' when you try to destroy it.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 22:57
|
|
|
IIRC there was originally supposed to be an ending where you tear down the wall Pink Floyd-style, but Obsidian never went through with it because they figured Wizard of the Coast would veto the idea anyway. Of course, then 4th edition came out and did away with the wall entirely, so maybe it could have worked.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2015 23:00
|
|
|
Lt. Danger did a very good LP of MotB if you don't want to play it: http://lparchive.org/Neverwinter-Nights-2-Mask-of-the-Betrayer/ especially the discussion about the different endings was cool imo
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 10:43
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:Don't get me wrong, I liked MOTB's central conflict - the idea of whether the Wall of the Faithless should exist or not This isn't the central conflict, it's a romance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 10:55
|
|
|
Well I'm starting my Iron Man run even though the thread isn't up yet. I'm itching to play and can't wait any longer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 15:37
|
|
|
It's this time of the year again, time to spend hours rolling for perfect attributes scores and get two-shoted by random wolves.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 15:55
|
|
|
I got a 90 and 18/00 after about an hour.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 16:36
|
|
|
i just used a character editor
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 16:41
|
|
|
Iretep posted:i just used a character editor
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 16:45
|
|
|
Wizard Styles posted:I don't know why anyone would roll for stats, honestly. Using Shadowkeeper isn't even cheating in the sense of getting something the game doesn't intend you to have, just saving time. Choosing a stat level like 90 and then distributing the stats is a 100% legit method of character creation in P&P. It's like choosing a difficulty level. Rolling stats does not legitimize your SP game experience in any way. I guess some people like the feeling of getting a "lucky" stat roll, but it's really just a function of time and endurance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:02
|
|
|
amanasleep posted:Choosing a stat level like 90 and then distributing the stats is a 100% legit method of character creation in P&P. It's like choosing a difficulty level. Rolling stats does not legitimize your SP game experience in any way. I guess some people like the feeling of getting a "lucky" stat roll, but it's really just a function of time and endurance. There is a reason Baldur's Gate 2 was the last of the Bioware/Obsidian games to use random stat rolling and point buy became the standard.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
I just distribute stats depending on how powerful the class I picked is. Like, my current Fighter/Illusionist has physical stats of STR 14, DEX 16, CON 18, which is more or less in line with what Jaheira gets in BG2. So serviceable stats for a very powerful multiclass combination. When I played BG1 as a Beastmaster I just said gently caress it and set everything to max.amanasleep posted:I guess some people like the feeling of getting a "lucky" stat roll, but it's really just a function of time and endurance. If you're just gonna reroll until you get the stats you want anyway, though, yeah...it's not luck anymore if you're forcing it. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:12
|
|
|
Made it to Nashkel and killed the assassin so things are going well. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:19
|
|
|
I usually spend around tend minutes to roll stats and use the highest, this time I got a 91, which is great because I'm going to play the good old solo F/M/T.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:21
|
|
|
Just pick the first stat distribution you get
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
netcat posted:Just pick the first stat distribution you get Or do whatever you want in your SP game. It just weirds me out that people post about re-rolling BG stats for 2 hours like it's supposed to be impressive. When I come into the Infinity Engine thread I want to hear 'bout dat fantasy gaming action, not self-enforced tedium.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:54
|
|
|
amanasleep posted:Or do whatever you want in your SP game. It just weirds me out that people post about re-rolling BG stats for 2 hours like it's supposed to be impressive. When I come into the Infinity Engine thread I want to hear 'bout dat fantasy gaming action, not self-enforced tedium. And half the thread will be murdered within an hour of character creation anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 17:57
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:And half the thread will be murdered within an hour of character creation anyway. "Great Opening Deaths" is a good and cool topic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
amanasleep posted:When I come into the Infinity Engine thread I want to hear 'bout dat fantasy gaming action, not self-enforced tedium. Dungeon-be-gone is mandatory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 14:03 |
|
|
sebzilla posted:Dungeon-be-gone is mandatory. A very nice mod, with surprisingly professional queer VA.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2015 18:47
|
|