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The Force isn't limited to select individuals. It is there for every living thing to trust in.
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Dec 23, 2015 15:02
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Danger posted:The Force isn't limited to select individuals. It is there for every living thing to trust in. Right, but some characters have Special Destinies, and those Special Destinies manifest as being good at the Force. Han seems to "believe" in the Force and trust in it during the interval separating Episodes VI and VII but he isn't choking out the weird Cthulu monsters he was smuggling Using space magic is pretty clearly a skill you need to cultivate
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Dec 23, 2015 15:14
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You don't think Rey is one of Lukes old apprentices but was ~~mind~~ wiped or just blocking the trauma out?
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Dec 23, 2015 15:23
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guts and bolts posted:Right, but some characters have Special Destinies, and those Special Destinies manifest as being good at the Force. Han seems to "believe" in the Force and trust in it during the interval separating Episodes VI and VII but he isn't choking out the weird Cthulu monsters he was smuggling Luke uses it just fine to destroy the Death Star with little practice.
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Dec 23, 2015 15:26
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hemale in pain posted:You don't think Rey is one of Lukes old apprentices but was ~~mind~~ wiped or just blocking the trauma out? I don't remember which thread I posted it in, but Kylo's behavior in TFA only makes any goddamn sense if he already knows Rey. Maybe she was getting cursory training early in life - as Jedi do, I guess - and then Kylo and Co. loving Luke's Jedi College up puts the kibash on that plan, so she winds up hidden on Jakku where she'll be safe. Or whatever. It's a pretty safe bet that Kylo Ren knows Rey somehow, hence his interest in recruiting and training her, and general attitude toward her especially during the interrogation scene. EDIT: cargohills posted:Luke uses it just fine to destroy the Death Star with little practice. To hit a target he already thought he could hit anyway? Again, if you're arguing about the specific space wizardry that Luke is capable versus Rey, you are sort of missing the point as to why certain people are kinda not into Rey, I think.
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Dec 23, 2015 15:29
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guts and bolts posted:I don't remember which thread I posted it in, but Kylo's behavior in TFA only makes any goddamn sense if he already knows Rey. Maybe she was getting cursory training early in life - as Jedi do, I guess - and then Kylo and Co. loving Luke's Jedi College up puts the kibash on that plan, so she winds up hidden on Jakku where she'll be safe. Or whatever. quote:
I think I'm missing the point because every time someone explains the contrast it makes zero sense.
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Dec 23, 2015 15:38
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It would have been dope if the moment han died chewie woulda detonated the charges, some of which still in hans backpack, loving kylo up a bit instead of the bowcaster bolt. Thats my fan fiction.
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Dec 23, 2015 15:44
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guts and bolts posted:Kylo's behavior in TFA only makes any goddamn sense if he already knows Rey. I just saw this last night, but didn't I see a scene where Rey is a little kid, being led away by Kylo, while her parents fly away in a ship? I mean that seemed not up for debate.
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Dec 23, 2015 15:50
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Quad posted:I just saw this last night, but didn't I see a scene where Rey is a little kid, being led away by Kylo, while her parents fly away in a ship? I mean that seemed not up for debate. I thought I saw something like that but do the characters ages make sense for that to work?
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Dec 23, 2015 16:04
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Quad posted:I just saw this last night, but didn't I see a scene where Rey is a little kid, being led away by Kylo, while her parents fly away in a ship? I mean that seemed not up for debate. I believe that in that scene the person holding her arm is the alien salvage dealer she works for in the beginning. Same fingers, same voice. But the flashback to Ren and his crew surrounded by bodies would imply that Rey was there for that. But then again she also appeared in that corridor where (supposedly) Luke and Vader fought in ESB, so maybe she doesn't have to have been present for all those visions.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:05
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Sorry if this has been discussed already: Is it obvious to everyone that Rey and Kylo are, probably cousins, or something? Rey has to be Luke's daughter, you don't set up every single aspect of Ep7 to be exactly like Ep4, including missing parents, without it leading up to a reveal about her parents. Rey will need an actual reason to fight the First Order other than just "they killed that guy I met a week ago" (or in Ep8, "because Luke said I probably should"), and since they made every possible choice the easiest way, that seems the most likely.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:11
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Quad posted:Sorry if this has been discussed already: I expect them to subvert some expectations in Episode VIII now that the stage is set and we've seen that they can do Star Wars "right."
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Dec 23, 2015 16:13
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JesustheDarkLord posted:I expect them to subvert some expectations in Episode VIII now that the stage is set and we've seen that they can do Star Wars "right." I felt like a dog in a new house the whole time. 15 minutes of change, introducing new characters, and then the movie went "oh nononono, come back, it's ok... sh.... look! look, a person hiding info in a droid! See? It's still Star Wars. Yeah... you're ok... shhh.... Look the droid is in a desert now! Don't be scared, it's just A New Hope, see? Yeah... no, I know, all this new stuff is scary, huh? It's ok, here, watch A New Hope again..." I get that the shortest path to the most money is to make the exact same thing and trick people into believing it's new. And I liked it, I mean, it's hard not to smile when someone is tickling you. But it was SUCH a template that I'm surprised I don't see more reviews upset about how they chose to not take any risks at all.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:19
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JesustheDarkLord posted:I expect them to subvert some expectations in Episode VIII now that the stage is set and we've seen that they can do Star Wars "right." Have Disney really subverted expectations with any of their recent major franchise films? Given the huge amount of money TFA has made playing I can't see them taking big risks with the sequel. What seems a lot more likely is the spinoff films will function in a similar way to the Netflix MCU shows, playing to a slightly older audience and taking more risks or at least going in different directions.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:23
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guts and bolts posted:I think Rey catches an inordinate amount of flak from corners of the internet because TFA has her as essentially the main protagonist instead of it being more of an ensemble, or her being the Leia successor; having a girl being the lead in your space opera nerd movie is, I think, obviously going to generate idiotic, only-vaguely-veiled sexism. Rey is not that distractingly gifted by the narrative. A few things: Rey being more "powerful" than Luke is partially a symptom of a general sense of power inflation. ANH was a ragtag bunch of nobodies against the Keystone Cops; TFA is about living legends and their gifted heirs taking on the Waffen SS. Han and Chewie are both better and stronger than they were in the OT, Poe is a better pilot than Han or Luke, etc. Even the random stormtroopers and TIE fighters are more competent in TFA than they were in the OT. The overall feel of the movie is much different and Rey does not stand out that badly in the context of the movie she's in. Moreover, Rey's victories are about her personal struggle with Kylo Ren. Other people get to save the galaxy, she just gets to save herself (and needs help to even do that much.) And importantly, Kylo Ren is NOT Vader. It's demonstrated pretty thoroughly that his role of "Vader analogue" is just a facade, especially in the context of his relationship to Rey. The OT was about Luke struggling to measure up to and eventually surpass his father, "the pupil has become the master" and all that. But Kylo Ren is not in any way a father figure--they even demonstrate him attempting to usurp that role ("let me train you!!!") and failing, just to drive the point home. Kylo and Rey are being set up as rivals, opposite but equal. They also seem like they're both going to be a lot more ambivalent about the whole good/evil dichotomy: remember that the Jedi were important not because they were the only ones ever capable of figuring out how to use the force but because they were dedicated to keeping force users from being corrupted by its power. This all sets up an entirely different dynamic for this trilogy and opens up a lot of new territory for the sequel to explore, assuming they don't gently caress it up. (I agree that if they reverse course and decide to retread Empire with Kylo as Vader 2.0 it's gonna be a major turd.) I do agree that the mind trick was a bit much; I would've been happier if Kylo Ren would've at least demoed it in front of Rey at some point. The force pull didn't bother me nearly as much, it seems like a more intuitive power and it's narratively important for Rey to show off her power in front of Kylo.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:24
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Quad posted:I get that the shortest path to the most money is to make the exact same thing and trick people into believing it's new. And I liked it, I mean, it's hard not to smile when someone is tickling you. But it was SUCH a template that I'm surprised I don't see more reviews upset about how they chose to not take any risks at all. Star wars is heading towards being 40 years old. At some point it's okay to tell a similar story written to a new generation. It's not like they haven't made a bunch of other movies with different stories since the originals. It's not like the original star wars was original to begin with with it's plot structure.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:30
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Dec 23, 2015 16:37
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Spoeank posted:I feel like I'm definitely falling for the trap but how can TFA be fundamentally flawed (an ANH remake) and a few script revisions away from greatness At least for me, it's fundamentally flawed because of the Death Star plot (which isn't even that bad, it just doesn't belong in this story). Take that out, use the additional space to slow down the pacing, introduce some character interaction moments, and you've got a legitimately great film. Like, Han & Leia meeting and interacting were the high points of character interaction. Though I will admit that Finn & Rey hyped as gently caress after fleeing the Tie Fighters on Jakku was pretty good too, in a different way.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:38
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Everyone I've spoken to who dislikes the movie dislikes it on the grounds that it isn't novel enough or is too much of a re-tread of ANH, which doesn't seem like a very valid criticism. Novelty alone doesn't make or break a film. I guess the meme is "Star Wars fans hate Star Wars" but I'm thinking it would be more accurately phrased as "Star Wars fans don't understand why they like the OT".
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Dec 23, 2015 16:50
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the trump tutelage posted:Everyone I've spoken to who dislikes the movie dislikes it on the grounds that it isn't novel enough or is too much of a re-tread of ANH, which doesn't seem like a very valid criticism. Seems valid to me? I like the movie but I almost groaned at a couple of callbacks. They were just there to tick a checkbox.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:58
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Kylo going from reaching in and trying to dig out Rey's memories while she tries to block him out to her pushing back and him looking like he's trying to fend her off is one of my favorite shots in this good, fun movie.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:04
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Nothing owns more then when a bunch of nerds feed of each other's butt hurt and make a nice stew.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:07
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PaganGoatPants posted:Seems valid to me? I like the movie but I almost groaned at a couple of callbacks. They were just there to tick a checkbox. "The film wasn't original enough" is such an open-ended statement that it's basically meaningless. What is "original"? What is "enough"? Especially in the context of a franchise film?
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Dec 23, 2015 17:13
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Danger posted:It's a necessary element of Star Wars fans to completely misunderstand the meaning of the Force and really just actively disliking Star Wars. The only true Star Wars fans are children, so often grown men will try to become children to claim Star Wars fandom but they are of course false fans. The men are of course doomed from the start, for even the True Star Wars Fans do not like Star Wars. No one does. How does this franchise even make money? That's the true mystery of the Force.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:14
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the trump tutelage posted:Everyone I've spoken to who dislikes the movie dislikes it on the grounds that it isn't novel enough or is too much of a re-tread of ANH, which doesn't seem like a very valid criticism.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:15
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the trump tutelage posted:How many sequels have their been that weren't either re-hashes of the original or re-hashes of some other film? I think it depends on how well it integrates into the story. A callback can have new thematic meaning depending on the context, or it can just be "hey guys, remember this?" For example, Rocky Balboa borrows a lot of its basic structure from Rocky, including the ending. Yet because we're looking at a guy at the end of his career rather than the beginning, it takes on a whole new meaning. RBA Starblade posted:The men are of course doomed from the start, for even the True Star Wars Fans do not like Star Wars. No one does. How does this franchise even make money? That's the true mystery of the Force. It's because people have an idea of Star Wars, and they like what that idea is. Basically, this article: http://www.theonion.com/article/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c-2849 but with "Star Wars" in place of "Constitution".
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Dec 23, 2015 17:17
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Some people are calling Kylo "Darth Emo" but this is a disservice because, unlike moody suburban teenagers, Kylo has gone through some genuinely serious poo poo, which so far is know to include betraying his family and murdering his fellow padawans.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:22
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RBA Starblade posted:The men are of course doomed from the start, for even the True Star Wars Fans do not like Star Wars. No one does. How does this franchise even make money? That's the true mystery of the Force. The answer, of course, is the dark side; or as Lacan defined the 'death drive'.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:23
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Instead of merging Poe with Finn, Poe and BB-8 should get their own movie. Poe was awesome, and I'd like Poe to do more stuff.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:37
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I think the best explanation for Rey being so quick to pick up on flying the Falcon is that she's actually Lando's daughter.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:05
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precision posted:I think the best explanation for Rey being so quick to pick up on flying the Falcon is that she's actually Lando's daughter. lando and han's daughter, that is why lando is wearing hans clothing in empire strikes back just randomly in one scene.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:08
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Rey is Nien Nunb's long lost daughter, actually.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:08
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Was I the only one who was actually annoyed at what they did with Chewie in here? Having him boast and flirt and sass off? Like, I get that the dialogue had to be "updated" and have funny little quips, and most of them worked (though I'm still a bit iffy on the implication that R2 calls 3P0 a nonce), but I could do without "funny Chewie". That said, as someone who saw the entire OT in theaters (granted, I was only 2 for ANH and Jedi is the only one I clearly remember the theater experience of) I was perfectly happy with this movie. It's a good little movie. The cultural baggage it has dragging it down is detracting from the praise it should be getting for being just fundamentally decent and having actual heart for a blockbuster (not coincidentally, the same thing happened with Star Trek 2009).
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Dec 23, 2015 18:15
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Maz Kanata has a brilliant opening. "Where's my boyfriend? I like that Wookie".
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Dec 23, 2015 18:18
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precision posted:Was I the only one who was actually annoyed at what they did with Chewie in here? Having him boast and flirt and sass off? Like, I get that the dialogue had to be "updated" and have funny little quips, and most of them worked (though I'm still a bit iffy on the implication that R2 calls 3P0 a nonce), but I could do without "funny Chewie". What, as opposed to having him be a bumbling comic relief sidekick like in the OT?
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Dec 23, 2015 18:19
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Gabriel Pope posted:What, as opposed to having him be a bumbling comic relief sidekick like in the OT? Well, I'd say he was more like a loyal shaggy dog than bumbling. He had heart in the OT, like the hug when he finds him in Jabba's palace.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:21
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precision posted:Well, I'd say he was more like a loyal shaggy dog than bumbling. He had heart in the OT, like the hug when he finds him in Jabba's palace. He had heart in TFA too. Going on a rampage after Han's death, worrying over Finn, and getting that moment where he's grieving over Han after they return.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:32
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precision posted:though I'm still a bit iffy on the implication that R2 calls 3P0 a nonce Have you seen any of the other Star Wars movies? If this bothers you, you might want to skip them.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:46
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Re: Rey "figuring out" grabbing the saber: Luke was never told about any specific abilities that the force brings (except for when he trains with the laser ball) until he goes Yoda. In that time he does a force pull of his saber. IMMERSION RUINED 
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Dec 23, 2015 18:52
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Boogaleeboo posted:4 billion dollars isn't a stupid justification. they've made $600 million off a $4 billion dollar franchise purchase and a $500 million total movie budget in a week, so giving the star wars name a soft reboot in a modern format pretty much worked. for me it proves disney could really only do a nostalgic modern action blockbuster to make back what they spent (because  ). it's definitely a flawed movie because of that, but gently caress it, i thought the characters totally made up for it and i really want to see more of them with a smarter director which is what we're gettingthen again the phantom menace made a billion over it's life, but i guess disney had to ensure this movie would work and make fuckloads of money Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 18:53
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