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Jordan7hm posted:
I'll be waiting with bated breath. (really hope one of said roguelikes is caves of qud)
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Dec 24, 2015 01:11
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Jordan7hm posted:(If you posted or sent me a list, I'm going to be giving away steam keys. I'll post the google doc link to the list of games when I get home. First come first serve type of thing. There are maybe 10 roguelike keys, but there are another ~350 to choose from because hey we like all kinds of games.)
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Dec 24, 2015 01:25
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madjackmcmad posted:I sent you some keys to hand out! Dibs on one of them. I want to try the full release of dungeonmans I played one of the old builds back when you were posting dev versions and it was crashing a fair amount so I don't think I've ever given it an honest try. Also I'm incredibly cheap.
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Dec 24, 2015 02:14
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drink_bleach posted:Dibs on one of them. I want to try the full release of dungeonmans I played one of the old builds back when you were posting dev versions and it was crashing a fair amount so I don't think I've ever given it an honest try. Also I'm incredibly cheap. Besides, it's on sale for $7.49 this week. I get 70% of that, then take out another 30% of the remainder for taxes and royalties, which means you can enjoy monster crushing adventure while knowing you've dropped a sweet tree fitty into the coffers of a hard working goon. http://store.steampowered.com/app/288120
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Dec 24, 2015 02:39
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madjackmcmad posted:Can you call dibs on unposted keys? i don't know if you can or want to talk about this, and it's a lil offtopic, but does the parade of sales and bundles for digitally distributed games ever work in favor of small indie developers? as an outsider nonbusiness person it looks like it could either be really good or really bad, especially for smaller developers who can't absorb big losses ps dungeonmans is one of a few games im trying to decide between for my allotted steam funds for this sale so i expect nothing less than a novella in reponse. gotta post post post to earn that half of a mcdonalds value meal here, buddy :P
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Dec 24, 2015 03:10
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The Steam sales are fine, in my opinion, because it gets some visibility, and if you're smart you price with the fact that you're going to be mostly selling while on sale in mind. It's the way the market works, so whatever. Bundles are just ways to sell your game for $0.01 a copy to people who would never buy your game, so they're a way to extract the final blood from your rock after it's baseline sales drop to 0, but basically not good for anything else to a small indie, unless you can somehow luck your way into one of the few standout bundles, like a CALL OF DUTY GAMES MEGABUNDLE or something.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:12
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i don't know if you can or want to talk about this, and it's a lil offtopic, but does the parade of sales and bundles for digitally distributed games ever work in favor of small indie developers? as an outsider nonbusiness person it looks like it could either be really good or really bad, especially for smaller developers who can't absorb big losses  Jeff Vogel, who has made a poo poo ton of asset-similar RPGs, subscribes to a theory that you keep your games at full price for long stretches, and only offer them on sale strategically. His bundles move large numbers because people actively wait until they can get a game from 2001 at half price. I like that. Of course, it requires you have lots of games to sell, and I'm not there yet. I can't novella because threadshitting and also I'm working on Demon Truck with a friend of mine over the holiday break so  pay me 
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Dec 24, 2015 03:22
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There are so many PC games out there and discover-ability is so bad that getting into a premiere bundle is a viable marketing expense (and in terms of accounting I'm pretty sure that larger companies would track it that way, which would also explain why you see big publisher bundles at year end), but that only works if you're actually in a high profile or targeted bundle. Even then, most of the games from a given bundle aren't going to be played. Most of the people buying the bundles (like me) are buying them for one game, and looking at the other games as things they may get around to trying for 10 minutes, or just idling for trading cards. That being said, I've definitely encouraged others to buy surprise hits from bundles that I've bought, or I've bought DLC or other games from a developer whose game I may never have bought standalone. I think targeted bundles work really well for this. A bundle of just roguelikes for example is going to sell worse than a bundle of lots of games + a roguelike, but the people buying it will be more likely to actually play the game, which is really what you're going for. ANYWAY... If you submitted a top 5 or 10 or whatever list to our roguelike POPULARITY contest, you are welcome to grab yourself some games from my own bundle list. This includes the 5 Dungeonmans keys that madjackmcmad was incredibly gracious enough to provide me with for this purpose. I'd like to take a minute to remind everyone that Dungeonmans (and Sproggiwood, and Caves of Qud, and according to others because I haven't played it yet Cogmind) is well worth your hard earned money, especially at sale time. These are good games. So the deal with the free games is that there are two lists in the attached link, one for premium games, one for base games. You can take 1 Premium game and whatever you want from the base games list (within a reasonable expectation of you actually installing if not diving deep into). The roguelikes are all in premiere (except one of them, I think). There are also some straight bundle keys in there, but you've got to look up what was in those yourself. Post here to claim it with your steam ID, and add me on steam. My steam id is: http://steamcommunity.com/id/7hm/ The giveaway document is located here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cLU51h82dxdYWoJFRsKG7ghymXMra3Ehu5dJdjZ_Em8/edit?usp=sharing I'll be around for the next few hours at least, and back on sometime tomorrow evening. e: If you didn't submit a list, you can still claim a base game. To people who actually want to talk roguelikes: sorry to poo poo up the thread for the next couple pages :/ Jordan7hm fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 03:44
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I'll pledge Sproggiwood and Caves of Qud keys to your holiday-cheer-filled-list-of-goodwill.
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Dec 24, 2015 03:46
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Jordan7hm posted:There are so many PC games out there and discover-ability is so bad that getting into a premiere bundle is a viable marketing expense (and in terms of accounting I'm pretty sure that larger companies would track it that way, which would also explain why you see big publisher bundles at year end), but that only works if you're actually in a high profile or targeted bundle. Even then, most of the games from a given bundle aren't going to be played. Most of the people buying the bundles (like me) are buying them for one game, and looking at the other games as things they may get around to trying for 10 minutes, or just idling for trading cards. That being said, I've definitely encouraged others to buy surprise hits from bundles that I've bought, or I've bought DLC or other games from a developer whose game I may never have bought standalone. I think targeted bundles work really well for this. A bundle of just roguelikes for example is going to sell worse than a bundle of lots of games + a roguelike, but the people buying it will be more likely to actually play the game, which is really what you're going for. I'll snag a Torchlight 2, 3089, and SPAZ. steamid http://steamcommunity.com/id/disastranagant/
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Dec 24, 2015 03:50
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I only have a top five, and I think the guy already finished collecting data, but I'm gonna post it anyways because I was too tired last time I thought of it. 1. DoomRL -- Low but non-zero randomness in combat, no food clock, adustable difficulty levels, highly readable ASCII and great-looking tiles, simple and meaningful inventory management, zero potential for scumming, and a decent variety of viable strategies -- DoomRL is still my gold standard for roguelike design. The worst I can say about it is the Dragonslayer, etc. stuff is dumb and the level generation is a little primitive. 2. ToME -- The poster child for good kitchen sink design; ToME is messy but balanced, because when it adds new features it iterates on them until they aren't disproportionately strong or weak compared to what's already there. This is especially true of class design, and least true of lategame level design; this is unfortunate for veteran players, but also sensible, because it means the most thoroughly tweaked content is the stuff newer players see over and over again. 3. Crypt of the Necrodancer -- See! Fully deterministic combat works! Also deserves props for its weapon/equipment system, which is full of simple but interesting trade-offs that make virtually any loadout justifiable, and for using its sprites to give information that would be difficult or impossible to convey via ASCII. 4. Cogmind -- I don't like combat in Cogmind one bit. Flat/linear % chance to hit mechanics are a blight on RPG design to begin with, especially when typical chances can fall below 50%, and Cogmind has too many modifiers on your hit chance to keep track of intuitively, let alone explicitly. The stealth gameplay makes up for it, though; the way enemies track you, communicate, and go about their business when they're not aware of you, combined with your powerful but fragile tools for detecting and avoiding them, is a lot of fun -- once you get past the early game where you're pretty much stuck shooting guys to get the parts you need to be stealthy in the first place. Also, Kyzrati deserves some kind of award for making a game where item destruction actually makes sense as a mechanic. 5. Caves of Qud -- Lots of stuff I'm ambivalent about, but as always, deserves special mention for the cleverness of the level design / generation. Character design is solid but most of the really interesting decisions happen at character creation, and not afterwards. Needs more active abilities and much flashier passives; 1% proc chances shouldn't be a thing unless they make the entire screen explode, and even then they're dubious. Desperately needs better documentation and real, specific numbers in skill descriptions. On the other hand, it almost certainly has the most and best quality-of-life features of any game in the ADOM/Nethack lineage. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 03:52
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Jordan7hm posted:There are so many PC games out there and discover-ability is so bad that getting into a premiere bundle is a viable marketing expense (and in terms of accounting I'm pretty sure that larger companies would track it that way, which would also explain why you see big publisher bundles at year end), but that only works if you're actually in a high profile or targeted bundle. Even then, most of the games from a given bundle aren't going to be played. Most of the people buying the bundles (like me) are buying them for one game, and looking at the other games as things they may get around to trying for 10 minutes, or just idling for trading cards. That being said, I've definitely encouraged others to buy surprise hits from bundles that I've bought, or I've bought DLC or other games from a developer whose game I may never have bought standalone. I think targeted bundles work really well for this. A bundle of just roguelikes for example is going to sell worse than a bundle of lots of games + a roguelike, but the people buying it will be more likely to actually play the game, which is really what you're going for. I'll claim Legend of Grimrock 2, Thanks! e - and Frozen Synapse Prime My profile: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198025787036/ Tax Inductions fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 03:52
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Added you as IAMCRAIG. Also I'll take a caves of qud copy! If not, then valkyria chronicles. edit: Also for reg games, Spacechem, The bard's tale and steamworld dig (if that isn't too much) double edit: Snatch up the King's Bounty games if you liked heroes of might and magic at all, the translations can be spotty at times, but overall they're pretty fun games. Pumpkinreaper fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 03:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I only have a top five, and I think the guy already finished collecting data, but I'm gonna post it anyways because I was too tired last time I thought of it. These change no results that I've disclosed yet (actually they reinforce the winner), so I am going to make an executive decision and count them. e: Given the fact I also said you could qualify for a game, I'm going to absolutely cut it off here. No more entries after you. Jordan7hm fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 03:56
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i'd like valkyria chronicles and paper sorcerer, thanks! http://steamcommunity.com/id/andrew_smash/
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Dec 24, 2015 03:58
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Mr. Wednesday posted:Zardo's game is by far the easiest shortcut ( hadn't occurred to me before seeing you do it but holding on to a spear and planting it in the floor to stand on while the blocks are cycling would make the arcade a lot less stressful. or do the skull blocks destroy it?
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Dec 24, 2015 04:15
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) and guarantees 3 chest drops which can be pretty great. Fatal Flight is probably the hardest unless you get lucky with the level gen, and only rarely has any resources you can actually reach .Soul Crossing can be pretty tough too, especially if Zardo himself shows up, which is quite likely in that area. I usually skip the shortcuts these days, the normal path has a better resources/danger ratio in my opinion and I need those berries!
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lets hang out posted:hadn't occurred to me before seeing you do it but holding on to a spear and planting it in the floor to stand on while the blocks are cycling would make the arcade a lot less stressful. or do the skull blocks destroy it? The red skull blocks destroy any items that touch it as well as you. At the end of my video you can see my bitchbane being fried from contact even though I was holding it. I didn't immediately notice what happened so I crawled back down to look for it ;_; The winchshot is the best item for the arcade but it can get fried too.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:18
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Jordan7hm posted:
The crafting system in The Pit often gets touted but I think it actually exacerbates its biggest problem, which is that successful runs are extremely loot dependent. No matter how smart you play, some runs inevitably result in failure because you simply couldn't find sufficiently scaled gear to survive the later floors due to RNG. It's a very disheartening way to lose, even with the understanding that you can keep replaying. The issue with the increased crafting recipes from the Gold Edition and other DLCs is that it further reduces your chances of getting that crucial piece of armor or weaponry by polluting the loot tables with even more crafting components. Yes, you have the potential of creating some powerful gear on your own, but more often you're stuck with an inventory of components that only might result in something useful. A lot of the game is just slowly losing to attrition, where you have to do goofy poo poo like preserving your starting gear because of the real possibility of not finding anything better in a run. An update to the game introduced the ability to bank stats and loot from one playthrough to a subsequent playthrough in an ostensible attempt to make things easier, but it just feels like introducing grind as a band-aid for the larger problem of RNG.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:20
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I don't do bundles anymore because I'd rather just pay for the 1-2 games in it I actually want to play. Almost all indie titles I'm actually interested in don't end up in bundles anymore anyway.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:20
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Mr. Wednesday posted:The red skull blocks destroy any items that touch it as well as you. At the end of my video you can see my bitchbane being fried from contact even though I was holding it. I didn't immediately notice what happened so I crawled back down to look for it ;_; The winchshot is the best item for the arcade but it can get fried too. that is so harsh 
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Dec 24, 2015 04:21
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moot the hopple posted:The crafting system in The Pit often gets touted but I think it actually exacerbates its biggest problem, which is that successful runs are extremely loot dependent. No matter how smart you play, some runs inevitably result in failure because you simply couldn't find sufficiently scaled gear to survive the later floors due to RNG. It's a very disheartening way to lose, even with the understanding that you can keep replaying. Yeah, there's a ridiculous amount of crafting recipes that you can only find rarely with a high deciphering skill while looking at message logs (either through searching desks or hacking into computers, which both are further skill investments) and it really doesn't help that they require specific crafting stations which themselves are uncommon to rare. Also banking exp and items is crap since you can only take them out if you make a character and choose to begin from that specific floor, otherwise you get nothing. Overall it's fun, but it has too many systems that work against eachother to make the game harder than it should/needs to be.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:24
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Oh did I forget to post a list? Oh well it was just going to be an alternating list of Dungeonmans and Azure Dreams anyway. Maybe a Caves of Qud thrown in for good measure.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:28
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Emong posted:Oh did I forget to post a list? Oh well it was just going to be an alternating list of Dungeonmans and Azure Dreams anyway. Maybe a Caves of Qud thrown in for good measure. You fool! Azure Dreams could have placed!
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Dec 24, 2015 04:34
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Jordan7hm posted:These change no results that I've disclosed yet (actually they reinforce the winner), so I am going to make an executive decision and count them. Thanks! I'd like to request a Sproggiwood key to http://steamcommunity.com/id/TuxedoCatfish It'll be interesting to see how Unormal and company do with something a little more focused and small-scale than Qud.
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Dec 24, 2015 04:53
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I picked up Dungeonmans at full price a couple of weeks ago, and now somehow I have 38 hours in it. Castle of the Winds is one of my favourite all time games and this seems to scratch the same itch. I was hot and cold on Dredmor's humour, but Dungeonmans hits just the right spot for me (I particularly enjoy the interactions with the Librarian). I just lost my level 12 Bannermans so maybe a mourning break is in store. Good thing I just bought Caves of Qud...
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Dec 24, 2015 04:54
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I'm not sure I fully understand the criticism of the Pit. How is not finding the gear you need any different than whatever unfair bullshit happens to ruin your run in another roguelike?
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Dec 24, 2015 04:58
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm not sure I fully understand the criticism of the Pit. How is not finding the gear you need any different than whatever unfair bullshit happens to ruin your run in another roguelike? A good roguelike should usually kill you because you made bad decisions, not because the RNG was in a bad mood. If the RNG is in a bad mood, then it should kill you in interesting ways (like "surprise! That kobold mage just summoned URGGZOB, DREAD DESTROYER OF WORLDS"), not by just slowly grinding you into the dirt without giving you any tools to deal with it.
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Dec 24, 2015 05:04
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There's a difference between unfair bullshit that kills you immediately (already bad, of course) and unfair bullshit that means you've already lost but won't actually get to a game over state for another half-hour. I haven't played The Pit but equipment death spirals in general tend to be the latter.
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Dec 24, 2015 05:07
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I meant to post a list, but slipped my mind due to work. I'm real bad at roguelikes anyway. 1: Caves of Qud - I just love the crazy dumb poo poo you can do with mutations and whatnot, and the setting is refreshingly distinct from most sword-and-sorcery RLs., also Unormal and HoL are Good Guys. 2: Dungeonmans - It's fun and cute, and madjack is also Good Guy tier. 3: Cogmind - Another neat setting, and Kyzranti is up there with the others. 4: TOME - Needs shortened, and to be less spiky, but the sheer breadth of classes and races put it up there in my book as someone who will never win, and so tends to play a bunch of different characters that splat/get abandoned because I want to try something else. 5: Sil - Haven't played it a ton, but what I have played of it was fun. I just realized that a large part of how I rate roguelikes has more to do with the dev than with the game  I also sent my extra copy of Frozen Cortex to Jordan for distribution. In my opinion Synapse was superior, but it would have just sat in my inventory otherwise, and it is a good game! I saw Mark of the Ninja on the list, it's fantastic, highly recommended if you like stealth and/or platformer games.
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Dec 24, 2015 05:10
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm not sure I fully understand the criticism of the Pit. How is not finding the gear you need any different than whatever unfair bullshit happens to ruin your run in another roguelike? You start with very limited equipment which deteriorates as you use it, usually at a rate faster than you acquire new equipment unless you win the lottery and find the right set of items to craft with AND a crafting station while also knowing the recipe (or looking it up on the wiki). Said crafting stations are rare (cooking ones not so much) and you can actually fail to craft anything at all and destroy said mats unless you have been investing skill points into the specific skill needed to craft it (and you likely will not have the skill to have a decently high chance of crafting it, even with items to boost it further). Also another problem with equipment degradation in it is that armour breaks incredibly fast. This is a very bad thing because the odds are already very much against you and the rarity of equipment/crafting mats I mentioned before. Not all characters can wear the same kind of armour either and it'll drop regardless of whom you pick. There's even one character that dies over time if it isn't wearing specialized armour because it's a space dolphin that's dehydrating. Good luck finding replacement armour that's one of the few it can wear AND not die from exposure. (To be fair, it's a very fun hero to play as, but if you lose your armour, you have probably lost the game, even more so with the psychic space dolphin). But yeah, in games like ADOM where your sword of +8d8 bullshit can be destroyed, it at least has the decency to drop weapons and armour regularly. The Pit can be fun, but it's designed to be unfair which makes bad luck a death sentence. Also been playing Caves of Qud and looking at all the mutations. I laughed a little when I looked at the beak mutation's description of "occasionally peck opponents". Still debating making Goro or a bird man, also wish I could take more than one negative mutation, then again that could make things get a little crazy.
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Dec 24, 2015 05:41
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Would it be possible to get Dungeonmans and Zafehouse Diaries? Thanks! http://steamcommunity.com/id/smileyfax
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Dec 24, 2015 06:19
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I'll grab Frozen Cortex and Monaco: What's Yours Is Mine http://steamcommunity.com/id/birdpudding/ Thank you
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Dec 24, 2015 06:24
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Sproggiwood is really good and would have made my list if I'd played it before. The little indicator of how much damage you'll do if you attack a particular enemy might be my favorite thing ever.
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Dec 24, 2015 06:27
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Using my holiday vacation weeks to prototype a System Shock/Alien Isolation inspired FPS roguelike/lite. Running around in the Redrock/Sproggiwood builder: Though I eventually aspire to generate doombsp style levels, not just blocks/voxels. My belly is full of voxelspace FPSs, personally. Unity is making it pretty drat easy to get a working mockup going. 
Unormal fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 06:29
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Unormal posted:Using my holiday vacation weeks to prototype a System Shock/Alien Isolation inspired FPS roguelike/lite. Running around in the Redrock/Sproggiwood builder: this makes me think of eldritch, except involving more sci-fi elements than lovecraft. that's a good comparison, mind you. eldritch does a good job for what it is.
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Dec 24, 2015 06:34
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So that's how it is, Cogmind starts getting a few more votes after the tallying is done  Nah it's okay, it's pricey for now and not in a lotta hands yet. A majority of people who've "backed" the alpha aren't even playing yet, heh. Speaking of seeing it in more hands... I promised a key, but I'm too poor to have SA PMs, so Jordan7hm could you gmail me at gridsagegames? I have a couple things for you...
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Dec 24, 2015 06:36
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Unormal posted:Using my holiday vacation weeks to prototype a System Shock/Alien Isolation inspired FPS roguelike/lite. What. WHAT. 
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Dec 24, 2015 06:39
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Unormal posted:Using my holiday vacation weeks to prototype a System Shock/Alien Isolation inspired FPS roguelike/lite. Running around in the Redrock/Sproggiwood builder: I see Christmas has come early this year.
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Dec 24, 2015 06:45
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Kyzrati posted:So that's how it is, Cogmind starts getting a few more votes after the tallying is done Have done - my email is my name @ gmail so it should be pretty obviously me. (And I'm counting Lprsti99's post despite my earlier edit. Another vote for Cogmind. )... So everyone up to now should have received their request. If for some reason you didn't, let me know over steam or here. I'll post the next list of roguelikes tomorrow and be on to hand out more keys later in the day.
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Dec 24, 2015 07:09
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Jordan7hm posted:Have done - my email is my name @ gmail so it should be pretty obviously me. Has anyone told you you're a saint? If it's still available, I might swipe System Shock 2. Always wanted to play that. http://steamcommunity.com/id/DoctorLime/
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Dec 24, 2015 07:22
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