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Ciprian Maricon posted:Turn away now. That's a good solid cube list and if you sleeve it up you're going to be finding yourself chasing down 100+ dollar cards for your unpowered 450 list before you even know what happened. thuly posted:I have a paper styborski cube, it's a good list and covers the history of the game pretty well. Black and red have felt pretty oppressive sometimes but it might have been poor play and variance. Thanks. The list already has a couple cards too rich for my blood in Chain Lightning and Maze of Ith. I've replaced them with a second Lightning Bolt and Mystifying Maze, respectively. I should probably just make a couple quick and dirty proxies though because those replacements aren't nearly as interesting.
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Oct 26, 2015 16:40
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I'd just find different cards than try to replicate their effects directly.
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Oct 26, 2015 16:41
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Turn away now. That's a good solid cube list and if you sleeve it up you're going to be finding yourself chasing down 100+ dollar cards for your
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Oct 27, 2015 00:21
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whydirt posted:I'd just find different cards than try to replicate their effects directly. I mean obviously it isn't a huge difference either way but there's a >ten good colorless lands and certainly lots of good burn to fill in those slots.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:14
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Spiderdrake posted:Yeah, part of the strategy behind cube is that if you have a card in your deck, or you've seen them play a card, you can mentally check off that it isn't available to them. Directly replacing cards (other than lands, which generally aren't part of that aspect of cube unless you're running a lot of land destruction) nullifies or confuses this. I guess I didn't give a lot of thought to breaking the singleton rule, but that makes good sense. I have a Searing Blood that I'd like to give a shot. Colorless land is harder, but I've got a few written down to look for at my LGS. E: Paliano, the High City looks like a pretty fun stand-in. It breaks the rarity restriction, but I don't see it being any more powerful than Maze of Ith is. wigglin fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 14:55
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Forgive me if some of the first couple of pages covered this, but is there a good "Building your first Cube" article that you guys would recommend? None of the Commander decks really excited me and I got turned on to the idea of building a Peasant Cube to play with friends.
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Nov 14, 2015 01:16
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IMO find a list on cube tutor you think is manageable and start there. There are some great lists out there and nothing is going to help you build a cube that you and your friends will enjoy more than just getting one together and playing it.
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Nov 14, 2015 02:48
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Ciprian Maricon posted:IMO find a list on cube tutor you think is manageable and start there. There are some great lists out there and nothing is going to help you build a cube that you and your friends will enjoy more than just getting one together and playing it. Yeah, I've been perusing some of the earlier lists and just noting cards I think would be cool to add and going from there.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:08
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bhsman posted:Forgive me if some of the first couple of pages covered this, but is there a good "Building your first Cube" article that you guys would recommend? None of the Commander decks really excited me and I got turned on to the idea of building a Peasant Cube to play with friends. Nothing really beats just figuring out what you and your friends like. I'd start with 55 cards in each color (with at least 20 creatures), 25 gold cards and 25 artifacts. Tune and tweak a lot. Don't have more than a couple cards in each color that are CMC 7 or more. With pauper, 2 for 1s are really valuable so try to make sure every color has about the same number of ways to get them. Beyond that, just toss in your favorite cards!
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Nov 14, 2015 03:09
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Nothing really beats just figuring out what you and your friends like. I'd start with 55 cards in each color (with at least 20 creatures), 25 gold cards and 25 artifacts. Tune and tweak a lot. Don't have more than a couple cards in each color that are CMC 7 or more. With pauper, 2 for 1s are really valuable so try to make sure every color has about the same number of ways to get them. Beyond that, just toss in your favorite cards! Yeah, I was aiming for something like that; I also wanted to have little subthemes if possible, but that can come as I add and remove cards. As for 2-for-1s, do you mean stuff like creatures with ETB effects?
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Nov 14, 2015 03:37
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bhsman posted:Forgive me if some of the first couple of pages covered this, but is there a good "Building your first Cube" article that you guys would recommend? None of the Commander decks really excited me and I got turned on to the idea of building a Peasant Cube to play with friends. The best cube-building article I ever read (for the development of my cube) is this one Removing Removal in Cube. It talks about asfan (which is essentially the number of a given type of card you see when you "fan out" a booster pack) for removal in Rise of the Eldrazi and Innistrad vs. the number Alex Ullman had in his cube at the time of writing (i.e. way more). I took this thinking and ran with it a little, to end up with some numbers I was happy with for removal, mana ramp, mana fixing and other such concerns. I did consider doing something similar with mana costs (and I still might), but I never got round to it. I based my removal per colour and mana ramp on the average of the two "best" draft environments (RoE and Innistrad), and the amount of colourless fixing on two multi-colour single set draft environments (KTK and RTR). The numbers I came out with are in the spreadsheet here: Peasant Asfan Sheet if you're interested in having a look. (On multi-coloured cards -- I explicitly added three cards of each two-colour pair, and then added some number of hybrid cards that I liked (counting them as half a card of each colour). The final list is here if you want to look at it: Modern Peasant Cube. I built it as "cards that were or are Modern legal, and don't cost a lot of money" (it started as "Modern", but I wanted to add Treasure Cruise and Bloodbraid Elf, and Preordain was cheaper than Serum Visions).
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Nov 16, 2015 11:27
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Death of Rats posted:The best cube-building article I ever read (for the development of my cube) is this one Removing Removal in Cube. It talks about asfan (which is essentially the number of a given type of card you see when you "fan out" a booster pack) for removal in Rise of the Eldrazi and Innistrad vs. the number Alex Ullman had in his cube at the time of writing (i.e. way more). I took this thinking and ran with it a little, to end up with some numbers I was happy with for removal, mana ramp, mana fixing and other such concerns. I did consider doing something similar with mana costs (and I still might), but I never got round to it. Oh wow, thanks for the links  I'll have to churn through all these later.
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Nov 16, 2015 14:55
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bhsman posted:Yeah, I was aiming for something like that; I also wanted to have little subthemes if possible, but that can come as I add and remove cards. As for 2-for-1s, do you mean stuff like creatures with ETB effects? Any way to get multiple cards worth of value on a single card- ETB effects certainly could count if both the creature and the effect individually feel about as powerful as a single card, but also stuff like straight card drawing spells, burn spells with dividable damage or multiple targets, or repeatable token generation. Normally in cube you can go hog wild but in Pauper too much value kind of distorts the draft and the decks it creates.
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Nov 16, 2015 17:19
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I still need to read through those links, but here is my first shot at an Eternal Peasant Cube for those of you interested. It feels kinda rough right now, but I tried to give each color a theme: -White: Tokens, tokens, and lots of tokens! Would you like some anthem effects with those tokens? An enchantment subtheme? Maybe some lifegain to go with it? Maybe some more TOKENS?!?! -Blue: You can either go with flying aggro, turtle up with drop some beaters, or even draft some Prowess dudes and go to town with tempo. -Black: Some Suicide Black-ish elements, but about halfway through I really liked the idea of adding Aristocrat elements, and I really like how it came out. Ironically this makes Black play very well with white and black. -Green: Tried to use Green to balance out the relative lack of artifact/enchantment answers, provide some fatties, some ramp, and also some aggro/turtle options. There's also a Landfall sub-theme that makes it play well with Red. -Red: There's burn, to be sure, but whether through creatures or spells with Y. Peezy and Guttersnipe backing up Kiln Fiend and Swiftspear. Also has some token generators to go with Black, White, and Green. Thoughts? Criticisms?
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Nov 17, 2015 07:04
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bhsman posted:I still need to read through those links, but here is my first shot at an Eternal Peasant Cube for those of you interested. It feels kinda rough right now, but I tried to give each color a theme: I just did a quick test draft of this cube, and grabbed about four reanimator effects (Exhume, Animate Dead and Makeshift Mannequin were picks 1-3; Reanimate came later). I didn't see many dredge or loot effects to go with it, so I looked through your list -- you only have Gather the Pack, Hymn (ish), Zombie Infestation, Merfolk Looter and Enclave Cryptologist to support these cards. Maybe add a couple of others? (I like Rotting Rats, Raven's Crime, Smallpox, Erebos's Emissary, Twisted Abomination and Gathan Raiders for a mono-black approach (Gathan Raiders is colourless for all intents and purposes)). Also, I found the two shrines (Shrine of Loyal Legions and Shrine of Burning Rage) and any control magic effects (Control Magic, Mind Control) to be ridiculously powerful in my cube, so they might want looking at. Otherwise, looks good. I can see some good stuff in the draft packs that could lead down some nice archetype paths, so that's cool.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:39
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Death of Rats posted:I just did a quick test draft of this cube, and grabbed about four reanimator effects (Exhume, Animate Dead and Makeshift Mannequin were picks 1-3; Reanimate came later). I didn't see many dredge or loot effects to go with it, so I looked through your list -- you only have Gather the Pack, Hymn (ish), Zombie Infestation, Merfolk Looter and Enclave Cryptologist to support these cards. Maybe add a couple of others? (I like Rotting Rats, Raven's Crime, Smallpox, Erebos's Emissary, Twisted Abomination and Gathan Raiders for a mono-black approach (Gathan Raiders is colourless for all intents and purposes)). Also, I found the two shrines (Shrine of Loyal Legions and Shrine of Burning Rage) and any control magic effects (Control Magic, Mind Control) to be ridiculously powerful in my cube, so they might want looking at. Otherwise, looks good. I can see some good stuff in the draft packs that could lead down some nice archetype paths, so that's cool. Thanks for this; I went ahead and removed a few cards and replaced them with: -Careful Study -Torrent of Souls -Smallpox -Tormenting Voice -Skirk Ridge Exhumer With Extract from Darkness and Torrent of Souls, a reanimator archetype can start with black and splash red and/or blue. When I have time later, I'll see about adding Twisted Abomination and Gathan Raiders (which I'll consider red just to keep things straightforward).
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Nov 17, 2015 16:45
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I would also consider a cycle of two color lands- fixing seems a little light at the moment. I'm not sure if your tri lands are intended to tap for every color or if people are supposed to fight over them for their two color decks, but right now even if you just want to play two colors you can't really prioritize fixing meaningfully.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:19
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tallkidwithglasses posted:I would also consider a cycle of two color lands- fixing seems a little light at the moment. I'm not sure if your tri lands are intended to tap for every color or if people are supposed to fight over them for their two color decks, but right now even if you just want to play two colors you can't really prioritize fixing meaningfully. I think at the time I was borrowing from another goon's Cube (that, unfortunately, I've forgotten which one); I liked the idea of giving anyone who forces Grixis a decent land, though as you say it may lead to people fighting over better lands between shared colors. EDIT: I went ahead and replaced them with the Khans 2-color lifegain lands; are those considered to be too good for certain strategies over others and should be replaced with guildgates? Is it worth having two copies of them instead of only 1 apiece? bhsman fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 17:55
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The refuges/khans lands are fine, the world doesn't end when someone gains a point of life. I think the tri lands are fine too, but if you only have them then they're really just gonna be a dimir guildgate most of the time and not actually support three colors. If you have all 10 khans lands and all 10 tri lands then three color decks are probably draftable.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:36
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tallkidwithglasses posted:The refuges/khans lands are fine, the world doesn't end when someone gains a point of life. I think the tri lands are fine too, but if you only have them then they're really just gonna be a dimir guildgate most of the time and not actually support three colors. If you have all 10 khans lands and all 10 tri lands then three color decks are probably draftable. I replaced the trilands with the Khan-lands for now, though I may go back and add them later (along with appropriate shard/wedge-cards to promote it) if I decide to expand the cube beyond 360 cards. As an aside, what is an appropriate amount of basic lands to keep on hand for a 360 cube? Assuming I'll have 8 players at most for a session.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:24
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bhsman posted:As an aside, what is an appropriate amount of basic lands to keep on hand for a 360 cube? Assuming I'll have 8 players at most for a session. 30-35 should be adequate, depending on how heavily you support mono vs multicolor.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:10
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Some Numbers posted:30-35 should be adequate, depending on how heavily you support mono vs multicolor. That's much less than I expected, actually.  I guess I expected a number in the 40-50 range, but thank you either way. 
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Nov 18, 2015 17:43
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bhsman posted:That's much less than I expected, actually. If your colors are deep enough that two players can draft mono with no non-basics, they'll need ~17 each, which is 34. If that's the case, it's unlikely that anyone else will be in that color.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:00
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Some Numbers posted:If your colors are deep enough that two players can draft mono with no non-basics, they'll need ~17 each, which is 34. Oh, definitely, but 2 players is the minimum; if I wanted the cube to support 8 players, should I have somewhere in the range I mentioned? Etc.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:32
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bhsman posted:Oh, definitely, but 2 players is the minimum; if I wanted the cube to support 8 players, should I have somewhere in the range I mentioned? Etc. There's no way in hell that all 8 players are in the same mono color unless you have a monored cube or something like that. They are saying 30-34 of each basic.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:35
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Oh, poo poo, did I not make that explicit? Yeah, 30-35 of each basic.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:52
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kirtar posted:There's no way in hell that all 8 players are in the same mono color unless you have a monored cube or something like that. They are saying 30-34 of each basic. I know he meant basic, I guess I was worried about, say, 4+ players going for a certain color and wanting 7-8 copies of that basic, but I guess even then 35 would be adequate. Admittedly I only just wrote up the list for my cube so I'll admit to not knowing how that usually plays out.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:18
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How many different archetypes should a 360-card cube support? I figure 8 is the minimum so that each drafter has potentially a deck to themselves but I'm wondering how many different decks I could support using cards that work in multiple decks (and thus the value of picking such cards changes). Any ideas?
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Nov 24, 2015 09:39
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igota75 posted:How many different archetypes should a 360-card cube support? I figure 8 is the minimum so that each drafter has potentially a deck to themselves but I'm wondering how many different decks I could support using cards that work in multiple decks (and thus the value of picking such cards changes). Any ideas? igota75 posted:How many different archetypes should a 360-card cube support? I figure 8 is the minimum so that each drafter has potentially a deck to themselves but I'm wondering how many different decks I could support using cards that work in multiple decks (and thus the value of picking such cards changes). Any ideas? I think some common good advice is to narrow down rough ideas for what each of your colour pairs is doing. The problem people often have as a result is that the themes they've chosen are too mechanically isolated from each other (maybe they want GB to be 'graveyard shenanigans' but no other colour pair interacts with that space - the graveyard deck will always be GB, and not GR, or UB, or some other variation). Drafters having 'decks to themselves' isn't necessarily good either, some competition for resources is a good thing as it leads to more unique decks week after week.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:49
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Hi. Anyone have any comments on my weird cube? I've been working on it for a while and only recently came to a version I'm reasonably satisfied with. http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/44268 It's a 540 card cube with heavy synergy based decks. The archetypes are defined across three colors; decks are expected to be between two and three colors. The power level of the cube is relatively low. The archetypes are: WUB Artifacts WUR Prowess WUG +1/+1 counters WBR Pump aggro WBG Enchantments WRG Heroic UBR Saboteur / 'deals combat damage to a player' UBG Dredge URG Landfall BRG Token Sac What do you think? Any cards that seem too strong or too weak relative to the Cube power level? Anything I'm badly missing? Advice?
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Dec 19, 2015 03:04
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I did a couple practice drafts and I really really like the power level- there's a bunch of weird junk that will actually get played and it really feels like the decks that win will be synergistic. That being said, I'd trim out archetypes a little- if you're in two colors of enchantments it's really hard to actually get a critical mass of enchantments, it feels like all of the aggro decks and the enchantments deck will be fighting like crazy for auras (since there's so much prowess and heroic) and I never saw close to enough artifacts or graveyard cards to make me feel comfortable in going all in on them. I'd consider supporting something like creature tokens and 1/+1 counters in every color and then artifacts, auras and graveyard amongst color pairs or something.
tallkidwithglasses fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 16:59
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Any advice for a Kamigawa cube?
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Dec 19, 2015 17:02
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tallkidwithglasses posted:I did a couple practice drafts and I really really like the power level- there's a bunch of weird junk that will actually get played and it really feels like the decks that win will be synergistic. That being said, I'd trim out archetypes a little- if you're in two colors of enchantments it's really hard to actually get a critical mass of enchantments, it feels like all of the aggro decks and the enchantments deck will be fighting like crazy for auras (since there's so much prowess and heroic) and I never saw close to enough artifacts or graveyard cards to make me feel comfortable in going all in on them. I'd consider supporting something like creature tokens and 1/+1 counters in every color and then artifacts, auras and graveyard amongst color pairs or something. That makes a lot of sense. The more heavy synergy decks don't have a lot of overlap and don't come together that often while the aggressive decks with light synergy have so much overlap between them that they don't end up feeling as focused. I like the idea of moving the archetypes around like you suggest, though it'll take some thought on how best to implement it.
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Dec 19, 2015 18:56
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Myriad Truths posted:Hi. Anyone have any comments on my weird cube? I've been working on it for a while and only recently came to a version I'm reasonably satisfied with. -enchantments in the graveyard -enchantments on the battlefield (Heroic crossover, good!) -cheating into play big enchantments, which you don't have This is a dicy proposition at 450 because you can't be sure you'll have rewards and enablers together in the first place, but if your rewards are all enabled different ways, the synergy will come together even less frequently. I'd also think about reading this really excellent Grillo_Parlante essay, Learning from Pauper: Rethinking Archetype Design. Some of the stuff he says there is relevant and he's way better at saying it than I am. His points about Heroic in particular are spot-on; Cube is frequently a combat-step format (at lower power especially!) and integrating Heroic into your environment in a way that's copacetic with your Enchantment theme will go wonders for the viability of your aggressive decks. The biggest failing of Alara block was that the Esper artifact theme isolated it mechanically from other colours, so you're either drafting Esper.dec or something with an artifact or two somewhere. Overall, though, I really like what I see. A Fires/Haste theme is pretty sweet and might work well with your other archetype theatres. Four Score posted:Any advice for a Kamigawa cube? Lots of out-of-block Spirits, maybe errata Splice so it works on Sorceries and not just Arcane Sorceries? Is this singleton (if so you probably can't support Dampen Thought, which is a shame, because it's one of the better examples of integrated combo in a Limited format) or a "set cube" where you run duplicates of each common/uncommon (the idea being to create a 'kamigawa draft simulator')? either way, it's probably going to be a really grindy format?
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Dec 23, 2015 22:52
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Four Score posted:Any advice for a Kamigawa cube? Probably leave out Umexawa's Jitte.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:17
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Aston posted:Probably leave out Umexawa's Jitte. Just put a bunch in so everybody gets at least one.
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Dec 25, 2015 21:39
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Anyone else having trouble editing their cubes on CubeTutor the last day or so?
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Dec 30, 2015 06:47
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whydirt posted:Anyone else having trouble editing their cubes on CubeTutor the last day or so? Worked fine for me recently. Also the new price function on cubetutor is both fun and alarming. Any cards people have their eyes on from the new set? I wish, wish, wish that flickerdrazi didn't require colorless mana and there doesn't seem enough reason to support colorless really. I also wish that flashback goblin didn't have to compete with Siege Gang, Thundermaw, Zealous Conscripts, Sarkhan, and Kiki-Jiki in my cube. Will probably try him anyway.
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Jan 9, 2016 04:45
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Pontius Pilate posted:Any cards people have their eyes on from the new set? Between allies, colorless mana requirements and support, this set has million blank cards for cube. Maybe the UR 1/3 prowess guy makes it if you support blue tempo and spells matter? Looking forward to wtwlf's review anyway. e: we do get our 9th 2/1 for B in black 
aborn fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 15:19
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Pontius Pilate posted:Any cards people have their eyes on from the new set? I wish, wish, wish that flickerdrazi didn't require colorless mana and there doesn't seem enough reason to support colorless really. I also wish that flashback goblin didn't have to compete with Siege Gang, Thundermaw, Zealous Conscripts, Sarkhan, and Kiki-Jiki in my cube. Will probably try him anyway. It is kinda of meh set given a lot of the stuff that might be interesting falls into weird categories or has weird wordings. The new ally producing equipment is very cubey though, I think? It's cheap and it constantly vomits out threats that threaten to vomit out more threats as well as letting you go wide and having synergy with various cards. Eh. Maybe not. Isn't colorless support just having utility lands in your cube? Mutavault, moth lands, various permutations of waste land, filters I guess all support colorless pretty handily.
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Jan 9, 2016 15:30
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