Davros1 posted:They could have completely removed the character of Dameron from the film and it wouldn't have affected the story one bit. Poe, the resistance, and Starkiller Base could have all been cut from the film and it would have been much better for it, yes. The movie would have worked much better as a smaller scale chase story about an AWOL stormtrooper, a woman with directions to the last Jedi in the galaxy, and an old man running from his past failures without all of the over-the-top doomsday poo poo and mujahideen-in-space angle. Krowley posted:Glad they didn't though, Poe owned Poe is superficially charming but utterly two-dimensional. He's pretty much just a wisecracking space dude who is utterly static and exists purely to deliver BB8 onto Jakku, a job that could have been accomplished by countless other narrative methods. If he'd been made more central that would be one thing, but he exists essentially as a bookending plot device with good looks and a smile. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 11:18
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Lovechop posted:let's all argue with the ugly disgusting goonlord who has 12k+ tweets about gamergate and refuses to acknowledge anything anyone says, i'm sure he will understand soon I don't agree with Mr. Bibs at all about Kylo, but shut the gently caress up, dude. You invoke Gamergate here knowing that it's a buzzword for goon ire (perhaps rightfully so; it's stupid and horrible), but one quick look at his Twitter shows that he's not a loving gator, which is pretty clearly the defamatory implication of your post. Also, it's loving creepy that you went out of your way to seek out his Twitter to dig up dirt.
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Dec 24, 2015 11:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ding ding ding. I think that even if you disregard the aesthetic (which you shouldn't, because it's important) they clearly come across as a Nazi allegory. A racially pure militaristic group with a völkisch reverence towards their forbears; aping things like the Death Star and Vader. They, or their leadership at least, are interested in the occult and scapegoat a secretive minority as being the cause for the massive defeat they suffered several decades prior. The "left-wing" interpretation doesn't really hold water; the New Republic and Resistance being bad and monarchist or whatever doesn't mean the First Order must be good in some way. MisterBibs posted:Say Kylo is threatening? go to Space Wizard Jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 portions from the CGI dude nobody has complained about because it's not the prequels anymore. Simon Pegg's character was a practical costume 
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Dec 24, 2015 11:23
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At this point Bibs is trolling himself as much as anyone else.
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Dec 24, 2015 11:24
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BrianWilly posted:MisterBibs is just changing words around to mean whatever he wants them to mean How does he do this ??????????
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Dec 24, 2015 11:41
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Ugh I loving love this movie but this thread/this internet has dragged down the whole experience so much. gently caress people.
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Dec 24, 2015 11:44
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Steve2911 posted:Ugh I loving love this movie but this thread/this internet has dragged down the whole experience so much. gently caress people. nah man it's still a good film  e: jivjov posted:I'd like to point out that Bibs was the first one to make a lovely gamergate comparison: yea that was the only reason i mentioned it, cuz he just sounds mentally unstable and weird. Lovechop fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 11:52
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Steve2911 posted:Ugh I loving love this movie but this thread/this internet has dragged down the whole experience so much. gently caress people. What does this mean? That other opinions are bumming you out so much it has a negative effect on your life? That you have trouble maintaining your positive feelings about the movie in the midst of negative ones? Sorry, this sounds ruder then I intend. I just don't get it
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Dec 24, 2015 12:07
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You ever see a movie you like, and all your friends just rag on it really hard? It may not change your opinion but it's kind of a bummer to see people you like poo poo on something you enjoyed.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:12
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Beefstew posted:I don't agree with Mr. Bibs at all about Kylo, but shut the gently caress up, dude. You invoke Gamergate here knowing that it's a buzzword for goon ire (perhaps rightfully so; it's stupid and horrible), but one quick look at his Twitter shows that he's not a loving gator, which is pretty clearly the defamatory implication of your post. Also, it's loving creepy that you went out of your way to seek out his Twitter to dig up dirt. I'd like to point out that Bibs was the first one to make a lovely gamergate comparison: MisterBibs posted:You are aware that there's a side in this discussion trying to paint Kylo as threatening? "Actually Kylo Is Threatening" is on par with "Actually It's About Ethics In X", as far as supportable theses are concerned.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:19
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Hat Thoughts posted:What does this mean? That other opinions are bumming you out so much it has a negative effect on your life? That you have trouble maintaining your positive feelings about the movie in the midst of negative ones? Sorry, this sounds ruder then I intend. I just don't get it It's the descending into pointless, bullshit arguments (not debates) over insignificant details between people who agree that they liked the film. Like, calm down.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:23
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CelticPredator posted:You ever see a movie you like, and all your friends just rag on it really hard? It may not change your opinion but it's kind of a bummer to see people you like poo poo on something you enjoyed. Haha, well, not really because most of my friends don't actually like watching movies, but sure yeah I get what you're saying.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:26
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Hat Thoughts posted:Haha, well, not really because most of my friends don't actually like watching movies, but sure yeah I get what you're saying. That just seems odd. I mean, I can understand not digging, like, a genre or style, but to just like a whole medium? Whoa.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:33
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No loving lie, I once served a customer who was buying a video game alongside his girlfriend / partner / wife / whatever, and she was riding him for being into such 'childish nonsense'. He seemed pretty down about it, and he wasn't buying some super weirdo game, so I made a friendly defence of it while I was bagging, saying it's just a hobby and it's basically the same as a movie in terms of entertainment. She death-stared me and told me "Well, I don't like any movies either. It's all fake. I don't get how you can like something that isn't real." The dude and I exchanged a glance that in one second said more than any evening of alcohol-soaked sympathy could ever say.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:39
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I once knew a girl like that. Hannah. She said she only liked reading textbooks because fiction was pointless. She was deeply crazy.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:41
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Like maybe she spent all her spare time cuddling orphans or something, but more than anything I was struck by just how inhuman a person who either didn't or couldn't be entertained by fiction felt. It just seems so fundamental to what makes us not only human beings, but a species possessing something close to a civilisation. Like, genre preferences, sure, but fiction as a whole? That's not someone who I'd want to spend any sort of time alone with.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:53
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I used to work with a guy who likes fiction, but only when everything in the story could happen in real life. The second anything on screen/in a book isn't grounded in reality he stops caring. This includes all animation and special effects. Otherwise he's great.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:13
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I think that Kylo is unthreatening and this is an issue. A primary purpose of the antagonist is to represent a threat to the actions, ideals and plans of the protagonists that they have to somehow overcome, helping to create a sense of tension and danger. If he isn't a credible threat (and in my eyes he isn't due to his constant failures) it undermines the nature of this type of action/adventure movie. I would like it if he was a humanised character that was flawed and obviously not living up to the idealised image he held of what he should be while still seeming competent and dangerous enough of a threat that I would be thinking "oh shiiiiiiit" when he inevitably crops back up in Ep 8. I understand some people feel that this is what was accomplished, but it didn't come across that way for me.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:48
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team overhead smash posted:I think that Kylo is unthreatening and this is an issue. Well, the film clearly shows Kylo being threatening.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:49
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jivjov posted:Well, the film clearly shows Kylo being threatening. It also shows stormtroopers being threatening but I didn't really believe that they posed a dire threat to the protagonists and the good guys winning the day either.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:52
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team overhead smash posted:It also shows stormtroopers being threatening but I didn't really believe that they posed a dire threat to the protagonists and the good guys winning the day either. The rank and file grunts are never a "dire threat" to protagonists. That's a pulp fiction trope, and has been part of Star Wars since the beginning. Although occasionally we get a TRAITOR!Trooper.
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Dec 24, 2015 14:09
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He's not an "oh shiiiiit" kind of villain, he's more of a wild card type villain, like Ellis in Die Hard. Ellis couldn't beat up John McClane, but he is a genuine threat to him because he could just gently caress everything up and get everyone killed at any moment. Kylo Ren could gently caress everything up and get everyone killed.
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Dec 24, 2015 14:11
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I love Kylo but I don't get it how it's controversial at all to say he's a chump. Though Bibs makes some good points I also don't get how this ruins the movie for him.
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Dec 24, 2015 14:36
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team overhead smash posted:I think that Kylo is unthreatening and this is an issue. That dude is fairly competent. He could have killed Rey at least 3 times. He needed her alive. And due to Force bullshit he was unable to get what he needed from her before he was going to kill her. The only time she beat him was after Chewie shot him with a Bowcaster that they literally spent the entire movie building up as a badass weapon. Finn pushed him a bit. and then he had her on the ropes while still not trying to kill her but persuade her to join him until more Force Bullshit happened, and she was able to counter him. Dude was unstable and dangerous as hell. It's his unstableness, injuries and the Rey's force awakening bullshit that allows her to survive, and eventually turn the tables. But his goal in these cases wasn't to kill her, it was always capture/mind break/seduce to the Dark Side.
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Dec 24, 2015 14:45
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My other favorite thing about star wars "fans" is using "cgi" as a sort of "mumble mumble bad" while having no idea what that even refers to in almost any sense. I'm not talking about children, though, the actual star wars fans who trust in the force.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:02
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Ok, it's great if you think Kylo Ren is unthreatening, good for you. But that's the minority opinion for multiple reasons, most of which have already been mentioned here. So basically gently caress
teagone fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 15:22
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I really loved the fact that Kylo was shown to be flawed in ways Vader never was. He's clearly dangerous. He's got a menace about him and obviously a great mastery of the force. But he's also obviously inexperienced and conflicted, and that makes him a much more engaging villain than if he'd just been an unstoppable dark side machine. I kind of like the idea of having a set of movies where all the main forcey dudes are either relative novices or weary old-timers.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:28
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Zero VGS posted:Considering even Disney thought they needed to shrink the black guy on the Chinese version of the poster... Getting eaten by rolling tentacle monsters
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Dec 24, 2015 15:31
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gohmak posted:Getting eaten by rolling tentacle monsters something something hentai.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:35
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teagone posted:Ok, it's great if you think Kylo Ren is unthreatening, good for you. But that's the minority opinion for multiple reasons, most of which have already been mentioned here. So basically gently caress The whole conversation was really dumb because whether or not Kylo Ren spooked you personally on a physical level has little to do with how effective his character is. I'd say what he is -the wayward, angry son you failed- is meant to be more discomfiting than his magic tricks.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:35
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It's fine to make the claim that Kylo is unthreatening, but include that in a holistic reading of the film because it has meaning.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:38
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net cafe scandal posted:I love Kylo but I don't get it how it's controversial at all to say he's a chump. Though Bibs makes some good points I also don't get how this ruins the movie for him. It isn't controversial because Kylo is specifically portrayed as a chump (which is abundantly clear during the face reveal). But LOL if this movie was ruined in anyway for anyone. Only peeps that don't like it are worthless garbage focusing on tiny dents in the marble and blowing them up to say the statue is broken into 9001 pieces.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:39
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Lovechop posted:let's all argue with the ugly disgusting goonlord who has 12k+ tweets about gamergate and refuses to acknowledge anything anyone says, i'm sure he will understand soon I don't remember if it was The Dark Knight Rises or one of the Star Trek movies, but he pulled this same poo poo for with a bone he had to pick for one of those movies too a while ago. And as you can expect it went on, and on, and on... This fellow will argue until he's twisted everything around so much that he actually is right (even if it contradicts the original point he was trying to make) or "wins" because people realize the futility of arguing with such a person. Anyways I'm still yet to see the movie for another time but I think the idea of a first Jedi Temple, despite somewhat a reference to prequel lore, is pretty cool. It looks cool, it doesn't have the taint of being "the room of expository dialogue where we hear about other things we should be watching happen in the movie" (not yet at least), and maybe it'll be the place where we see some cool Empire-esque revelations about the Force go down. I would love some further development on the mysticism and spirituality involved. Didn't Jorge talk way back when about his plan for a third trilogy centering around Force mysticism and development beyond good-dark dichotomy? I know he wrote treatments for these and Disney basically said no thanks, but there's bound to be a few good ideas he had that either made it into TFA or upcoming films. The Golden Gael fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 15:46
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If you don't get slightly aroused at the sight of Adam Driver then I don't know what to say.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:51
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Vintersorg posted:If you don't get slightly aroused at the sight of Adam Driver then I don't know what to say. Agreed. He's was fun to watch.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:52
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The cast in this movie loving owned.
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Dec 24, 2015 15:54
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What a good movie. That's my main takeaway from this. It had a distinct lack of self-importance. It was simply a good movie. No Star Wars movie can ever be as "important" as the first one. It's just not possible. At the time, nobody had ever seen anything like it before. The prequels were all about self-importance. Lucas was obviously aware that Star Wars was considered important, but perhaps didn't grasp the exact nature of its importance. It was important in a meta way, because of its moment in film history. The plot itself was nothing special; it was just a good movie with good characters, moments, art direction, and action scenes. Lucas's first mistake with the prequels was thinking they should be all about the plot, all about explaining the workings of the Star Wars universe. He believed that was the important part. Of course, his bigger, more significant mistake was that he's simply not good at making plot-heavy movies. Midichlorians were the worst example, but really, the whole drat movies were Midichlorians. TFA is the opposite extreme, almost to a fault. There's literally almost no exposition at all after the opening text crawl. I actually might've liked just one or two scenes in the Republic government office or whatever, just to show some people saying "how about that New Order, I'm glad the Resistance is around, hopefully we don't get attacked" or something. But overall, Abrams took the right approach here. My only real complaint was the final space battle, if you can call it that. (Clearly Abrams has a bit of a fetish for space ships doing stuff on planets instead of in space.) The final saber fight was great. But the destruction of Starkiller didn't really give us anything comparable to, or better than, either Death Star sequence. I think it was written well enough, with the more character-based "ground" mission complementing the larger-scale ship attack. But it lacked something in execution. I didn't really feel anything when it blew up.
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Dec 24, 2015 16:07
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gohmak posted:Getting eaten by rolling tentacle monsters Or flying X-Wings. Kinda want to see the other X-Wing pilots developing as a background ensemble over the trilogy. Have them be Poe's buddies and show up in all the space battles.
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Dec 24, 2015 16:22
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Sir Lemming posted:TFA is the opposite extreme, almost to a fault. There's literally almost no exposition at all after the opening text crawl. I actually might've liked just one or two scenes in the Republic government office or whatever, just to show some people saying "how about that New Order, I'm glad the Resistance is around, hopefully we don't get attacked" or something. But overall, Abrams took the right approach here. Thing is, Abrams had literally shot scenes with that same expository intent in mind. There's that one shot of the folks on Hosnian Prime reacting to their imminent doom, but the camera is plainly focused on one woman dressed up in a Resistance uniform; she was apparently supposed to be Leia's aide, and we would have seen her, had they not cut her scenes, petitioning the Senate for more concrete assistance against the First Order. But as one might imagine, that would have taken away from the pacing of the kids encountering Han Solo and going to Maz's watering hole, plus I personally think that X-Wings dropping in to kick rear end is a better introduction to the Resistance than Senate procedures. Can't wait to see it as a deleted scene, though. Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 17:32
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Right... First Order. I had a feeling they weren't the guys who wrote "Blue Monday" but I was blanking on the exact name.
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Dec 24, 2015 17:34
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