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I'd say go for more aggressive. A paring knife isn't gonna be on the receiving end of too much impact so it should be fine.
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Dec 18, 2015 21:21
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Thoht posted:I'd say go for more aggressive. A paring knife isn't gonna be on the receiving end of too much impact so it should be fine. Blade geometry is about metal hardness, a Wusthof can't maintain a 15 degree angle at only 53-58 HRC. 20 degrees is what you'll want. I can go put an obscene 10-12 degree angle on one of my loaner German knives, edge will roll right over after a few uses. e: paring knives usually get used for things that are known to shorten the life of your edge, such as tomato skin, apples, etc.
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Dec 18, 2015 21:28
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There was some Bob Kramer chat a while ago, which reminded me to take some data the last time I used my dad's knives. Time to report. My dad has two of those Bob Kramer made my Henckels knives (7" santoku and 6" chefs) and I wasn't a big fan of either. For the 7" santoku, the rivet on the right side nearest to the blade sticks out *just* enough that it kept chafing my middle finger. The rest of the rivets and handle are satisfactory. It isn't completely smooth, but none if it is distracting except for the aforementioned rivet. The santoku is very heavy at 240 g and the balance point is at the back end of the brass collar (maybe 1/2 inch back from where the steel starts). This wasn't comfortable for me, but it may be for you. Compare this to my 8" Shun chef's knife, which has a mass of 207 g and the balance point is right about where the heel meets the handle. The 6" chef knife doesn't have any rivet problems, but the blade is a bit wonky. It looks like a 15 degree angle on both sides, but the angle isn't centered. It looks like a check mark if you can imagine that. Overall, for $300 a knife, I think it is too much money considering the QC problems. Yeah, sure, maybe he should have returned them as soon as he got them. I know that they are separate knives purchased a few months apart, so maybe these were just some bad apples. Even if they were finished nicely, I still wouldn't pay that much for them because they are both so loving heavy. They're awkward to handle because they want to tilt back into your hand which makes cutting feel weird. I can get some more detailed info on those knives if you want, just let me know.
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Dec 21, 2015 10:38
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TATPants posted:There was some Bob Kramer chat a while ago, which reminded me to take some data the last time I used my dad's knives. Time to report. Those both sound much worse than my Konosuke Ginsan 240mm or Shiro Kamo R2 240mm from CKTG which cost $330 and $240 respectively. Also CKTG has a bunch of Shiro Kamo R2 210mm and 240mm in stock right now, I highly recommend those knives.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:00
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TATPants posted:Overall, for $300 a knife, I think it is too much money considering the QC problems. It's also too much money for a stubby little 7" knife.
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Dec 21, 2015 18:11
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TATPants posted:The 6" chef knife doesn't have any rivet problems, but the blade is a bit wonky. It looks like a 15 degree angle on both sides, but the angle isn't centered. It looks like a check mark if you can imagine that. My guess would be it's an intentionally asymmetrical bevel. It's not uncommon at all. My cheap fujiwara sujihiki is 70/30 iirc.
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Dec 21, 2015 21:35
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I was just listening to the Cooking Issues podcast and there was an episode where Dave Arnold mentioned that Japanese knives often have an asymmetrical bevel
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Dec 21, 2015 21:45
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Steve Yun posted:I was just listening to the Cooking Issues podcast and there was an episode where Dave Arnold mentioned that Japanese knives often have an asymmetrical bevel I suspected that might be the case. I just thought it was a bit odd that the chef's knife had the asymmetry but the santoku's edge was even.
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Dec 21, 2015 22:38
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TATPants posted:I suspected that might be the case. I just thought it was a bit odd that the chef's knife had the asymmetry but the santoku's edge was even. Was it urasuki or just a normal asymmetric grind (back bevel)? Urasuki: 
deimos fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 20:00
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deimos posted:Was it urasuki or just a normal asymmetric grind (back bevel)? Neat geometry there, but I don't think that's what it was. I'll take a closer look and post some pictures in a few days.
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Dec 23, 2015 01:59
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Anything I should do to this before I start using it? I've heard about forcing a patina on carbon steel, but with some of it already black I wasn't sure if I should do that.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:21
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:Anything I should do to this before I start using it? I've heard about forcing a patina on carbon steel, but with some of it already black I wasn't sure if I should do that. The black part is a kurouchi finish, but that does not look like a very strong one so it will wear off over time. For a test try chopping up an onion and taste it, if you get some weird metallic flavors you might want to force a patina, otherwise you can just let the patina form on it's own over time.
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Dec 25, 2015 23:33
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Hey folks, first time poster in knife land. My Mercer Genesis decided to go on to greener pastures at some point before Any recommendations for a mid-range paring knife and peeler? Are ceramic peelers worthwhile?
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Dec 27, 2015 12:12
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Kaleidoscopic Gaze posted:Hey folks, first time poster in knife land. My Mercer Genesis decided to go on to greener pastures at some point before For a paring knife there is always the Tojiro one, though some people feel it's too flexible. MAC also makes a couple models of paring knife, one of which is pretty cheap, you can find all of them on CKTG along with many other brands and makers. For peelers I love my Kuhn Rikon peeler, it's very durable and plenty sharp, but because it uses deep serrations it's very hard to cut yourself if you slip or something, like with frigging potatoes. 
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Dec 27, 2015 13:25
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I would like to upgrade my current WMF chef's knife (20cm blade I think) with a Tojiro DP gyuto. I know I want a longer blade, but I'm stuck between the 24cm and 27cm. Any particular reason to go for either, beyond the initial impression of the handling? Also, I've dabbled a bit in sharpening, using oil and waterstones with mixed to good results. I like the process and the results well enough to stick with the waterstones and try to get good and efficient at it. I'm looking at buying a 240/800 grit, a 1000/3000 grit and a 5000 grit stone. I want everyday sharp knives, not super sperglord sharp knives - do I need an even higher grit stone for polishing or should I be ok?
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Dec 27, 2015 14:07
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Serendipitaet posted:I would like to upgrade my current WMF chef's knife (20cm blade I think) with a Tojiro DP gyuto. I know I want a longer blade, but I'm stuck between the 24cm and 27cm. Any particular reason to go for either, beyond the initial impression of the handling? I've always found 240mm to be a good size since it fits in most work spaces but does not feel small. As for stones you are probably fine with just a low grit stone for removing lots of metal when needed, a medium grit one like 1k for normal sharpening and a higher grit one like a 4k for refining the edge at the end. Really the 4k is unnecessary but I like how sharp it gets the knife at the end. Other than that you will want a diamond plate or something to keep the stones level, that can also replace the lower grit stone for serious metal removal but I don't like the feel of a diamond plate on my knives so I got a lower grit stone too.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:36
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I've always found 240mm to be a good size since it fits in most work spaces but does not feel small. As for stones you are probably fine with just a low grit stone for removing lots of metal when needed, a medium grit one like 1k for normal sharpening and a higher grit one like a 4k for refining the edge at the end. Really the 4k is unnecessary but I like how sharp it gets the knife at the end. Other than that you will want a diamond plate or something to keep the stones level, that can also replace the lower grit stone for serious metal removal but I don't like the feel of a diamond plate on my knives so I got a lower grit stone too. Thanks, I'll see if I can get to compare them in person and then decide what I like better. Also thanks for the input on the stones. I went with a 220, a 1k and a 5k and will see where that gets me. Time to go thrift shopping to get some practice knives.
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Dec 28, 2015 18:07
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Serendipitaet posted:Thanks, I'll see if I can get to compare them in person and then decide what I like better. One thing to keep in mind with your practice knives is that they will be much "faster" than the Tojiro because the steel used in them will be many times softer.
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Dec 28, 2015 18:52
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Just want to give praise to the Victorinox granton slicer. For anyone that is thinking about getting an accessory knife for the occasional bigass piece of meat, it really rocks. In fact, I liked it so much that I want to get a boning knife from them as well 
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Dec 29, 2015 00:24
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All of my knives besides my chefs knife are Victorinox. I don't use a 14" slicer enough to spend a million dollars on it.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:28
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I got a Tojiro DP gyuto for Christmas but it's not particularly sharp out of the box. Any recommendations for my first water stones for this knife?
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Dec 29, 2015 09:32
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Tacier posted:I got a Tojiro DP gyuto for Christmas but it's not particularly sharp out of the box. Any recommendations for my first water stones for this knife? Do you have a budget in mind? EDIT: Others will disagree, but I would maintain that the quintessential waterstone is the King waterstone. I don't see them on CKTG, but I did find some on Lee Valley. They have a set of King stones that fit the typical set, with your main sharpening stone typically being between 800 and 1200 and your stropping/polishing stone typically being between 3000-8000. To its credit, King is the favored brand of Murray Carter, whose skills with them are formidable enough to shave with a spoon. Plus, less than $55 is about as cheap as you can hope to get a set of separate stones. Prices tend to go up from there. I'm pandering to probably myself any not one goddamn soul more on the forum when I say that when I asked Jason Bosman/knifenut to pick the "one stone to rule them all" it was the Shapton Pro. You're looking at $120 for a pair of them, though, and tack on another ~60 if you want something for really heavy duty work. They're far from the only option, though. Shapton also makes the Glass Stones which also enjoy a reputation as working well with a wide variety of steels. The Naniwa Professional series was also recommended to me, but in the particular context that the 1k would work well with my Arashiyama 6k. The Arashiyama 1k and 6k are what I use and love, but after searching desperately, even to the third page of Google, I couldn't find them for sale. The Arashiyama 1k was nice because it was only a little more expensive than the King, but a lot better, according to recommendations from Jason Bosman and CKTG. In general with waterstones, I usually suggest separate stones. There are combination stones out there for the trying, but it seems like the consensus I remember seeing is that with waterstones they're not a good idea. You tend to use the workhorse grit (800-1200 grit) a lot more than the polishing grit, and waterstones will wear considerably faster than oilstones or diamond stones. What ends up happening is that you wear out one half of the stone much more quickly than the other half. Though it occurs to me that you might be able to wear out the workhorse side, then replace it with a proper separate stone of the appropriate grit when it wears out. It also occurs to me that I'm several drinks into a bottle of some Haitian rum and that idea is probably retarded. The only other warning I might offer is from the same Jason Bosman against Naniwa Super Stones. He said they're good for razors, but not for working knives. And take that suggestion as nothing more than a stranger quoting another stranger that the first stranger trusts. In short, if you want to keep costs down, get King. If you want better performance, get something else that isn't Super Stones. Glockamole fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 22:15
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Glockamole posted:Stone talk Thanks! I'll probably grab some of those King stones.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:47
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For what it's worth, there are a variety of King double stones for sale on Amazon. I'm using a King 250/1000 stone ($25 amazon prime), have had it for 2-3 years now and use it somewhat regularly when the ceramic honing rod doesn't seem to help. Then again I'm not polishing the blade beyond that 1000 grit so the sharpness isn't as fine and may not last quite as long as if I had a wider set of stones. King also makes a double sided 800/4000 stone for $35 bucks. I'm going to give an Edge Pro knockoff a try for a while and see if I like it (have a few smaller knives that were giving me trouble on a freehand stone) and if I don't then I'll probably pickup the 800/4000.
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Dec 30, 2015 23:55
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King has a ton of stones, but I think the King combos are usually smaller than the singles. Depends on what model, of course. Depending on how big the knives are that you plan to sharpen, it can be beneficial to get the larger stones. One more combo to consider, if you want one, is the King 800/6000 combo (PB-04) as well - $30 on Amazon. It says for carbon steel in the description, but I've used it on a number of stainless knives too (including a DP) and it works just fine. On the DP I will almost always follow up the 6000 with just a few swipes on a strop. I like the edge the strop gives much more than the 6000 on its own. Since King makes so many stones you really need to pay attention to what you're buying. For example, King 6000 S-1 vs King 6000 S-3. Both are King 6000 grit stones, but the S-1 is a larger stone. The S-3 is the same size as the PB-04. The single grit King Deluxe 800 or 1200 are larger than the PB-04/S-3. One thing I don't like about combo stones is that the mud from the coarse side will run onto the finishing side, so you've gotta clean it off before you move on. If you're doing multiple knives then you either do them all on one grit first, then the move up, or wash away a bunch of mud. The other thing is that since you flip the stone over, the face of one is the base of the other. Since lower grits tend to wear faster than finer grits, you have to flatten the coarse side to get a nice base for the finishing side. With a single grit stone, if you use only one side, the base side will always be flat and stable. You can argue about how flat you should keep the stone anyway, but that's another argument. Keep in mind that the Shaptons, for example, are splash and go stones, and are actually negatively impacted by extended soaking. The King 800/1000/1200 can be kept soaking. This depends on the manufacturing method of the stone/bonding agent.
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Dec 31, 2015 04:03
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One more thing, when you say it's not particularly sharp, are you saying this because the edge is not great (can it not slice newspaper, for example) or is it not performing well in use (something like dragging or sticking when cutting up an onion)? FWIW, I wasn't very impressed with my DP's real use performance OOTB, but the edge itself was quite sharp.
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Dec 31, 2015 05:32
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I'm getting married in the fall and my fiancé wants to put a new chefs knife on our registry. Is there anything professional grade in 10inch at crate and barrel or bed bath and beyond? I remember the chef and cooks at every restaurant I worked at having knives that were special ordered hundreds of dollars and poo poo. That's fine if I'm paying for it, but I don't rang that stuff on there, and would rather pick it up myself.
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Jan 1, 2016 15:44
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always be closing posted:I'm getting married in the fall and my fiancé wants to put a new chefs knife on our registry. Is there anything professional grade in 10inch at crate and barrel or bed bath and beyond? Looking at both of them and they mostly carry crap. Probably your best bet is a Shun classic from BB&B, but I think it's a waste of money and you would be better served adding some other stuff to the registry and getting a good knife from CKTG.
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Jan 1, 2016 16:25
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Looking at both of them and they mostly carry crap. Probably your best bet is a Shun classic from BB&B, but I think it's a waste of money and you would be better served adding some other stuff to the registry and getting a good knife from CKTG. Thanks.
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Jan 1, 2016 20:06
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So I was thinking of getting a whetstone and learning how to sharpen my knives, any recommendations? Ive got a few Tojiro knives if that matters. Edit; Obviously I wont buy the overpriced endorsed one but is this legit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU ColHannibal fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 23:26
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ColHannibal posted:So I was thinking of getting a whetstone and learning how to sharpen my knives, any recommendations? His explanation and technique are both legitimate and accurate. That said, there is more than one "legitimate" waterstone technique and technique for stones in general. You can scroll up a bit for some suggestions from me and an addendum from Scott808 for waterstones. Did you have certain brands or types already in mind?
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Jan 3, 2016 00:35
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Glockamole posted:His explanation and technique are both legitimate and accurate. That said, there is more than one "legitimate" waterstone technique and technique for stones in general. Nope, I saw the huge gap in price of them on Amazon so I figured I would come here as this thread has also steered me right on knifes,blocks and magnetic storage blocks. I never let my knives go crazy dull so I figure I could get by with a 1000 and a 5000, and a leather block for finishing? I already have a polished steel rod I use for honing.
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Jan 3, 2016 01:08
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ColHannibal posted:Nope, I saw the huge gap in price of them on Amazon so I figured I would come here as this thread has also steered me right on knifes,blocks and magnetic storage blocks. I'd say your instincts serve you well. You don't even really need the leather, though a few passes on it after the 5k certainly won't hurt anything. I don't remember if it's here, TFR, or Blade Forums that I remember reading that Amazon isn't the best source of stones. I'd heard that they're prone to handling them more roughly than a dedicated supplier like CKTG, Sharpening Supplies, or one of the other sites that deal with knives and sharpening in particular. That said, I did get an XXC DMT stone from there that came to me in good condition.
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Jan 3, 2016 03:22
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ColHannibal posted:So I was thinking of getting a whetstone and learning how to sharpen my knives, any recommendations? Nothing he says in that video is outright wrong but I'd say that you should buy an Edge Pro knockoff and some good stones for it from CKTG instead. I say this because maintaining a specific angle when using traditional waterstones is a skill that you hone(haha)through years of regular practice. If you want to make good use of that set in the video you should be prepared to set aside 2-3 hours every day for practice and to buy a sacrificial knife to practice on since frequent sharpening will wear down a knife faster than you would think. Devices like the Edge Pro maintain the angle for you which makes the whole process much, much easier.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:05
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Yeah, I bought the videos from Murray Carter, and took detailed notes. I bought the equipment, everything. At the end of the day, using the Edge Pro knockoff was faster, easier and more accurate b/c I didn't want to dedicate the time it took to become a 7th generation blademaster like Carter-san.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:34
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Ok so I've seen the advice buy an edge pro knockoff and good stones, but that does not solve my original problem of what to get. Can somebody post what exactly to get? There are so many more edge pro stones than whetstone sit looks like.
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Jan 3, 2016 17:53
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This is a intro question so sorry if it's asked all the time (I checked a couple pages but didn't see it), but I have one of those standard basic level 8-inch Victorinox Fibrox chef knives. I saw that it's sharpened at a 15 degree angle, but I was looking at sharpeners and see a good one (or what I think is a good one) with the lowest angle guide being 17 degrees. Does the 2 degrees matter much, in this case, or would that be fine?
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Jan 3, 2016 18:20
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Nothing he says in that video is outright wrong but I'd say that you should buy an Edge Pro knockoff and some good stones for it from CKTG instead. I say this because maintaining a specific angle when using traditional waterstones is a skill that you hone(haha)through years of regular practice. If you want to make good use of that set in the video you should be prepared to set aside 2-3 hours every day for practice and to buy a sacrificial knife to practice on since frequent sharpening will wear down a knife faster than you would think. Devices like the Edge Pro maintain the angle for you which makes the whole process much, much easier. It's been a long time since I started out, but I find it difficult to believe it took hours a day or years or both to be good at sharpening (then again, I might be a lovely sharpener and just unaware of it). Even now, when I treat sharpening like a meditation, I'd need to really find a groove to go past an hour, and probably an amphetamine to go past 2. The practice knife thing is probably true (I just practiced on what I had at the time), and needing practice is absolutely true. But I would wager that a few hours over the course of a few days would be enough to at least get the hang of sharpening. Hed posted:Yeah, I bought the videos from Murray Carter, and took detailed notes. I bought the equipment, everything. At the end of the day, using the Edge Pro knockoff was faster, easier and more accurate b/c I didn't want to dedicate the time it took to become a 7th generation blademaster like Carter-san. I feel like this sort of undermines the point of his approach. A lot of his approach is trying it out and developing a feel. In fact, I think his whole point is that it's not as hard as we initially think it is to develop that feel. I don't doubt that the Edge Pro will make a knife sharper than I have the skill to at this point, but I feel like I see a regard toward sharpening like it's some sort of mystical skill like focusing chi to break a brick or catching an arrow out of the air or Beyond that, you still run into issues with Edge Pro or other similar systems. The stones can still wear unevenly, especially waterstones. I could be wrong having never used one, but they seem like really long knives it would be hard to keep a consistent angle. If a specific angle is important, it seems like it'd be hard to consistently determine over a range of knives of varying thicknesses and widths. And I don't know how all the setup and takedown in any way makes an Edge Pro easier to use than bench stones. That said, I've been wrong about a lot of things. I thought for sure I'd see Season 2 of Firefly released on HD DVD during the Gore Administration, so I'm open to why my view
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Jan 3, 2016 19:23
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Glockamole posted:It's been a long time since I started out, but I find it difficult to believe it took hours a day or years or both to be good at sharpening (then again, I might be a lovely sharpener and just unaware of it). Even now, when I treat sharpening like a meditation, I'd need to really find a groove to go past an hour, and probably an amphetamine to go past 2. The practice knife thing is probably true (I just practiced on what I had at the time), and needing practice is absolutely true. But I would wager that a few hours over the course of a few days would be enough to at least get the hang of sharpening. Oh, you can certainly learn how to get some sort of edge on traditional stones within a few days with some practice, I've done it myself, but the EP will give similar results to what you get from a pro sharpener who sharpens for a living with a fraction of the work. Getting really good with traditional stones is a long road, so people should know that up front before they spend a couple hundred dollars on stones and stuff. Glockamole posted:I don't doubt that the Edge Pro will make a knife sharper than I have the skill to at this point, but I feel like I see a regard toward sharpening like it's some sort of mystical skill like focusing chi to break a brick or catching an arrow out of the air or Actually maintaining consistent angles over different knives and such is pretty easy, I just use a electronic angle cube to measure the angle needed. As for setup and take down it takes maybe ten minutes to set up my EP and about the same time to setup my waterstones, plus the traditional stones I use need soaking so that adds a good bit of waiting time, though you can avoid that by using stones like the Shapton Pro or Glass stones.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:20
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Years to learn how to sharpen a knife?! Just watch some videos on youtube for stone sharpening and have at it. I bought various grit stones on https://www.chefknivestogo.com and practiced on my older Wustof to get the technique down. You get a feel and sound of the blade sharpening with practice, it's not hard at all.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:32
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