Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

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HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Ainsley McTree posted:

It's probably symbolic of something.

for a real trip, try to follow the lines of sight in Las Meninas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Meninas
who's looking where? who's in the mirror? what's on the easel?

# ? Dec 26, 2015 16:42

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:53

Ainsley McTree: Feb 19, 2004

HEY GAL posted:

for a real trip, try to follow the lines of sight in Las Meninas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Meninas
who's looking where? who's in the mirror? what's on the easel?

And who's the man on the stairs? This painting is the original Lost.

I went to the prado and probably spent a good 30 minutes gawking at that thing. It's even more impressive full size. I now have a poster of it hanging in my room so I guess you could say I know a thing or two about fine art

# ? Dec 26, 2015 16:47

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Belated Merry Christmas, milhist goons. I had The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Neptune's Inferno, and Shattered Sword under the tree this year. :hist101:

# ? Dec 26, 2015 17:21

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

HEY GAL posted:

that's about the number of first names i have, and then i also have two last names

Velasquez is all about the people staring at people. But I think he's supposed to be looking at you, because the artist himself is among the Spanish, on the far far right, with the pointed moustache.

I to got 4 names + surname. And the king-numbers, is indeed just the way we do it.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 18:00

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

100 Years Ago

Back to Lieutenant-Commander Spicer-Simson on Lake Tanganyika, who continues doing his part to make the war more silly by first leading a church parade and then a major naval battle while wearing a skirt. (He's fighting Germans whose boat boasts a large gun from Konigsberg in the bows, which has been installed next to the ship's goat.) Meanwhile, General Joffre suggests that the British Army might like to do something near the Somme, Flora Sandes continues the march, and Robert Palmer is preparing to move up-river with the relief effort.

Ainsley McTree posted:

It's probably symbolic of something.

It's a face that should be entirely recognisable to anyone who's tried street photography...

# ? Dec 26, 2015 18:37

hogmartin: Mar 27, 2007

Cythereal posted:

Belated Merry Christmas, milhist goons. I had The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Neptune's Inferno, and Shattered Sword under the tree this year.

Just finished the Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, definitely a good one. My only objection is that the author writes about like 40 sailors, it can get rough trying to remember if this one is the Oklahoma farmboy or the Pittsburgh street kid. Well worth reading though.

e: also Shattered Sword owns.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 19:04

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Trin Tragula posted:

It's a face that should be entirely recognisable to anyone who's tried street photography...

What I love about that musketeer is how very Dutch he looks. If the roommate I used to have grew his hair out and cultivated one of those 17th century beard/moustache hybrids, they could be brothers. (Breda-fort's guys are on the left, and he's one of them; the victors are on the right.)

Ainsley McTree posted:

And who's the man on the stairs? This painting is the original Lost.

I went to the prado and probably spent a good 30 minutes gawking at that thing. It's even more impressive full size. I now have a poster of it hanging in my room so I guess you could say I know a thing or two about fine art

art...is good

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 26, 2015

# ? Dec 26, 2015 19:15

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

hogmartin posted:

Just finished the Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, definitely a good one. My only objection is that the author writes about like 40 sailors, it can get rough trying to remember if this one is the Oklahoma farmboy or the Pittsburgh street kid. Well worth reading though.

e: also Shattered Sword owns.

Yup, I've read all three from my local library and decided to get my own copies.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 19:21

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Trin Tragula posted:

100 Years Ago

Back to Lieutenant-Commander Spicer-Simson on Lake Tanganyika, who continues doing his part to make the war more silly by first leading a church parade and then a major naval battle while wearing a skirt. (He's fighting Germans whose boat boasts a large gun from Konigsberg in the bows, which has been installed next to the ship's goat.) Meanwhile, General Joffre suggests that the British Army might like to do something near the Somme, Flora Sandes continues the march, and Robert Palmer is preparing to move up-river with the relief effort.

These lake-battles (aside from people being actually killed) almost seem like some 1980s university comedy, except in Africa, in 1915.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 20:28

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

HEY GAL posted:

Velasquez is all about the people staring at people. But I think he's supposed to be looking at you, because the artist himself is among the Spanish, on the far far right, with the pointed moustache.

I like that you point out people not by the color of their clothing, but by their mustache.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 21:00

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

Merry Christmas, military history thread, I received Shigeru Mizuki's Hitler.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 21:01

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Chamale posted:

Merry Christmas, military history thread, I received Shigeru Mizuki's Hitler.

"For Christmas, I got Hitler."

# ? Dec 26, 2015 21:02

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

chitoryu12 posted:

"For Christmas, I got Hitler."

-Stalin in 1941

(could also be Churchill in 1941, I guess)

Nenonen fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Dec 26, 2015

# ? Dec 26, 2015 21:04

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

chitoryu12 posted:

I like that you point out people not by the color of their clothing, but by their mustache.

every day they're like
: {-

# ? Dec 26, 2015 21:13

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Chamale posted:

Merry Christmas, military history thread, I received Shigeru Mizuki's Hitler.

Give me your address, I'll send you a copy of Osamu Tezuka's Adolf.

Onward Towards Our Noble Deaths is great too. Rest in peace, Mr. Shigeru.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 21:22

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

HEY GAL posted:

that's about the number of first names i have, and then i also have two last names

Velasquez is all about the people staring at people. But I think he's supposed to be looking at you, because the artist himself is among the Spanish, on the far far right, with the pointed moustache.

That's insane. What is your name?

Fe: Just message me if you don't want to be doxxed by goonlords.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:00

Eela6: May 25, 2007; Shredded Hen

Hi. I'm really interested in the numeracy of soldiers (that is, their math literacy). Eg, for all you experts (hey gal, etc.) , how much math do your soldiers know? How about the officers? Basic arithmetic skills seem like they would be the foundation of logistics. Do they use ciphers or other mathematical codes to conceal or compress information?

- Artillery seems hard without calculus. When does modern artillery start? Is it formal and calculus-based, or are there 'shortcuts' people use that were good enough?

Sorry this is so vague. I'm not exactly sure how to word what I'm asking. Our modern military-industrial system is so deeply connected to mathematics (it's one of the primary employers for mathematicians) and I'm kind of wondering if it's always been the case. Thank you for your time.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:36

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

I'm pretty sure that their cannons were so imprecise that composition of firing tables would be an exercise in futility.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:41

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

I found the wiki page for indirect fire very educational back when I was a cannonhead.

Basically, modern artillery was always about learning math, though artillerymen themselves could just use short-cut tools developed by mathematicians. Also, you could approximate targets by knowing the terrain really well, gauging your powder charge and use range sticks and observers.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:43

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Ensign Expendable posted:

I'm pretty sure that their cannons were so imprecise that composition of firing tables would be an exercise in futility.

actually, gunner math was extremely cool and good in this period, but it wasn't calculus, it was geometry.

All together now:
∠ NCB (the one on the left) is known. (Is that a C? I dunno.)
∠ AEJ is known. (At least, I think that's a J.)
The length of line CBE is known.
Therefore you can find the length of line CDN, which is the range of the cannon on the left, and line EJN, the range of the cannon on the right.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Dec 26, 2015

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:49

Hazzard: Mar 16, 2013

HEY GAL posted:

actually, gunner math was extremely cool and good in this period, but it wasn't calculus, it was geometry.

All together now:
∠ NCB (the one on the left) is known.
∠ AEJ is known.
The length of line CBE is known.
Therefore you can find the length of line CDN, which is the range of the cannon on the left, and line EJN, the range of the cannon on the right.

Is there anywhere it be read? I feel like being a maths nerd.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:56

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Hazzard posted:

Is there anywhere it be read? I feel like being a maths nerd.

euclid's elements

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:56

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

actually, gunner math was extremely cool and good in this period, but it wasn't calculus, it was geometry.

All together now:
∠ NCB (the one on the left) is known. (Is that a C? I dunno.)
∠ AEJ is known. (At least, I think that's a J.)
The length of line CBE is known.
Therefore you can find the length of line CDN, which is the range of the cannon on the left, and line EJN, the range of the cannon on the right.

Oh yeah, range estimation would work, I meant a table like for figuring out how to angle your gun when aiming at a target X meters away and Y meters below you while the wind is blowing at Z m/s.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 22:58

Kafouille: Nov 5, 2004; Think Fast !

Finding out the range is only useful if you have some idea of what the drop of your gun is like at a given range, so they must have had something like that.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:02

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Ensign Expendable posted:

Oh yeah, range estimation would work, I meant a table like for figuring out how to angle your gun when aiming at a target X meters away and Y meters below you while the wind is blowing at Z m/s.

walk it closer to the target by watching the puff of dirt from every missed hit. According to Gunpowder and Galleys, a really good early modern gunner was capable of target-shooting, it's just there weren't that many of them because it's a lifetime commitment to their weird guild/alchemist-like thing.

Edit: And fortresses are all math.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Dec 26, 2015

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:03

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

Could you fire with the entire battery once you got a gun ranged in, or did they all have to be walked on target individually?

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:09

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

HEY GAL posted:

actually, gunner math was extremely cool and good in this period, but it wasn't calculus, it was geometry.

All together now:
∠ NCB (the one on the left) is known. (Is that a C? I dunno.)
∠ AEJ is known. (At least, I think that's a J.)
The length of line CBE is known.
Therefore you can find the length of line CDN, which is the range of the cannon on the left, and line EJN, the range of the cannon on the right.

It's not as fun as determining the drag coefficient of your every so slightly imperfect spheres.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:09

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Ensign Expendable posted:

Could you fire with the entire battery once you got a gun ranged in, or did they all have to be walked on target individually?

every gun is different, depending on the army you might not even have standard sizes yet

edit: you study industrial war. this is...artisanally-handcrafted war.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:10

BurningStone: Jun 3, 2011

HEY GAL posted:

every gun is different, depending on the army you might not even have standard sizes yet

edit: you study industrial war. this is...artisanally-handcrafted war.

The high quality custom made war, for rich people. Not that mass produced crap.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:13

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

BurningStone posted:

The high quality custom made war, for rich people. Not that mass produced crap.

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:17

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Authentic 16th century gunsmiths lovingly craft each individual barrel in our traditional forge. Each cannonball is meticulously measured and honed -by hand- to custom fit the gun.

*angle grinder sparks flying off a culverin*

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:22

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

Hazzard posted:

Is there anywhere it be read? I feel like being a maths nerd.

This specific example is Law of Sines stuff, since finding the last angle is easy and then you can set up the appropriate ratios

# ? Dec 26, 2015 23:40

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

Cythereal posted:

Belated Merry Christmas, milhist goons. I had The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Neptune's Inferno, and Shattered Sword under the tree this year.

I too got The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, Neptune's Inferno,, but I already had Shattered Sword.

# ? Dec 27, 2015 00:03

hogmartin: Mar 27, 2007

Quick run-down on Neptune's Inferno - should I get it? Of the books recently mentioned it's the one I don't have and I'd be interested in some new text.

# ? Dec 27, 2015 01:24

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

trying to figure out where the guys on all these muster rolls come from, found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayn

quote:

The second County of Sayn emerged as a partition of Sponheim-Sayn in 1283 (the other partition being Sayn-Homburg). It was notable for its numerous co-reigns, and it endured until 1608 when it was inherited by the Counts of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn. A lack of clear heirs of William III of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn led to the temporary annexation of the comital territories by the Archbishop of Cologne until the succession was decided. In 1648 following the Thirty Years' War, the County was divided between Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn-Altenkirchen and Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hachenburg.

Both of the county-lets went to women, and one of them was a title that descended only through the female line, which is cool. I guess if there's a type of inheritance out there, some German at some time has tried it.

# ? Dec 27, 2015 01:35