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Kai Tave posted:It's not just a case of getting Disney's approval to make up new ships, Disney actually made the Imperial Raider themselves after FFG asked them to. Does that mean it's canon now? It'd be neat to see it show up in Rebels.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:04
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What about the explicitly Legends ships in X-wing like the TIE Phantom and Defender? Doesn't that show that everything, both new and old canon is on the table?
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Dec 25, 2015 22:12
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Kilo147 posted:What about the explicitly Legends ships in X-wing like the TIE Phantom and Defender? Doesn't that show that everything, both new and old canon is on the table? All of the explicitly Legends ships in X-wing were either in production or released before Disney did the split.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:35
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Yvonmukluk posted:Does that mean it's canon now? It'd be neat to see it show up in Rebels. It is 100% Disney made and approved, so yes, technically the Raider is as canon as it gets. Whether Disney decides to use it in anything besides letting FFG make models of it is up to them. Kilo147 posted:What about the explicitly Legends ships in X-wing like the TIE Phantom and Defender? Doesn't that show that everything, both new and old canon is on the table? Disney lets FFG use old EU stuff with approval, nonetheless X-Wing isn't a barometer for "is this ship/pilot still considered canon?" because of that. Old canon is on the table if a new writer wants to use it for stuff and if Disney approves of it being used in stuff that they're considering "yo this is the real deal right here." So Disney could use any of that stuff if they wanted, but it's ultimately up to how they feel about it.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:36
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Kai Tave posted:Disney lets FFG use old EU stuff with approval, nonetheless X-Wing isn't a barometer for "is this ship/pilot still considered canon?" because of that. Old canon is on the table if a new writer wants to use it for stuff and if Disney approves of it being used in stuff that they're considering "yo this is the real deal right here." So Disney could use any of that stuff if they wanted, but it's ultimately up to how they feel about it. So how does this work from an organizational standpoint anyway? I sorta doubt Disney has a well-trained committee of IP stewards who can make this decision, and my gut is telling me that it's almost certainly some rear end in a top hat with a marketing degree who sits in his office and makes arbitrary decisions based on basically nothing when approving/denying NewCanon stuff.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:45
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Kai Tave posted:It's not just a case of getting Disney's approval to make up new ships, Disney actually made the Imperial Raider themselves after FFG asked them to. Im pretty sure ffg people worked on rhe design of it not just disney.
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Dec 25, 2015 22:53
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Drone posted:So how does this work from an organizational standpoint anyway? I sorta doubt Disney has a well-trained committee of IP stewards who can make this decision, and my gut is telling me that it's almost certainly some rear end in a top hat with a marketing degree who sits in his office and makes arbitrary decisions based on basically nothing when approving/denying NewCanon stuff. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle from what I've gathered.
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Dec 25, 2015 23:49
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There is still no reason to believe Disney would ever limit FFG only to canon material. They love money and the game is built on legends.
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Dec 26, 2015 00:07
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Any must read faqs or guides before starting your first imperial assault campaign? I've read the quick start rules and plan to run the imperial
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Dec 26, 2015 01:03
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Armada was made after the Disney acquisition and has multiple legends ships in it already (HWK-190, Assault Frigate, etc) I believe Disney doesn't care about canon in these sorts of products, only "authenticity".
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Dec 26, 2015 02:43
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Drone posted:So how does this work from an organizational standpoint anyway? I sorta doubt Disney has a well-trained committee of IP stewards who can make this decision, and my gut is telling me that it's almost certainly some rear end in a top hat with a marketing degree who sits in his office and makes arbitrary decisions based on basically nothing when approving/denying NewCanon stuff. Apparently that exactly what's happened, at least according to the PR. When the current CEO of Star Wars was named her first task was putting them together.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:08
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sarmhan posted:Armada was made after the Disney acquisition and has multiple legends ships in it already (HWK-190, Assault Frigate, etc) The "authenticity" thing is how it works for video games, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's how the tabletop stuff is set up too. Basically as long as it looks at feels like Star Wars, its fine.
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Dec 26, 2015 03:08
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Drone posted:So how does this work from an organizational standpoint anyway? I sorta doubt Disney has a well-trained committee of IP stewards who can make this decision, and my gut is telling me that it's almost certainly some rear end in a top hat with a marketing degree who sits in his office and makes arbitrary decisions based on basically nothing when approving/denying NewCanon stuff. Here's what's canon, as in 100% Disney approved "this is the real deal going forward" canon: 1). Every movie, prequels included. 2). Every animated feature post-prequels, which is mainly the Clone Wars stuff and Rebels. 3). The Marvel comics published following Disney's acquisition of the property. 4). Novels published post-Disney. The trend here is that things that get the canon stamp of approval are the movies and animated series' along with material produced with Disney's approval/directly by them following their acquisition of the franchise. There doesn't really need to be someone making arbitrary decisions because the only real decision at this point is "did Disney commission this y/n?" Disney vets everything...Chuck Wendig who just recently wrote Star Wars: Aftermath talked about it, how Disney put out the call for someone to write a novel bridging RotJ and Episode 7 and how they reviewed his manuscript as he went forward...so there's no rear end in a top hat waiting to "decanonize" things because frankly anything that Disney hasn't given a thumbs up to upon review at this point is assumed to be non-canon until stated otherwise. This is different than Disney throwing everything from the EU into the garbage and telling people they can't ever speak of it again. That stuff they presumably handle on a case by case basis. FFG says "we'd like to continue making games that draw from the EU using this and this and this" and Disney looks it over and goes "sure, okay." This is why if you ever see pictures of pre-release models from upcoming X-Wing or Armada waves there's usually a placard next to them saying something like "pending approval." If Kevin J. Anderson calls up Disney and says "I have a great idea for a new series of Star Wars novels where the Yuzhan Vong get infected by that Sith zombie disease" then Disney will probably say no.
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Dec 26, 2015 10:40
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Kai Tave posted:This is different than Disney throwing everything from the EU into the garbage and telling people they can't ever speak of it again. That stuff they presumably handle on a case by case basis. FFG says "we'd like to continue making games that draw from the EU using this and this and this" and Disney looks it over and goes "sure, okay." This is why if you ever see pictures of pre-release models from upcoming X-Wing or Armada waves there's usually a placard next to them saying something like "pending approval." If Kevin J. Anderson calls up Disney and says "I have a great idea for a new series of Star Wars novels where the Yuzhan Vong get infected by that Sith zombie disease" then Disney will probably say no. Theyve been doing that since the beginning, before Disney ever bought star wars. 
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Dec 26, 2015 11:10
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zVxTeflon posted:Theyve been doing that since the beginning, before Disney ever bought star wars. Sure, but that doesn't change anything I said. They still have to get approved by the licensor for everything they do (as do most licensees), which now happens to be Disney and presumably Disney is okay with them continuing to use old EU stuff for their games or else we wouldn't have gotten Wave 7 of X-Wing among other things. But that doesn't mean that if FFG pitched something that Disney had a severe aversion to that they might not get told "no, find something else to use."
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Dec 26, 2015 11:51
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Ugleb posted:It did look pretty drat big to me. Not Super Star Destroyer big, but someone was over compensating. It's apparently 2.9km to the ISDs 1.6km, presumably lifted from one of the new, Disney Star Wars Canon Committee approved companion books. The mini star destroyer in Rebels is an Imperial Light Cruiser, rebadged and modified from the Republic Arquitens light cruiser, and if I had any real money I'd bet on this ship coming very soon as the Imperial answer to the Nebulon B, at least in terms of base size. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 12:05
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Id imagine armada will get a gozanti as well eventually, probably as a small base carrier type with a good squadron command rating and not much else.
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Dec 26, 2015 13:56
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Kai Tave posted:Sure, but that doesn't change anything I said. They still have to get approved by the licensor for everything they do (as do most licensees), which now happens to be Disney and presumably Disney is okay with them continuing to use old EU stuff for their games or else we wouldn't have gotten Wave 7 of X-Wing among other things. But that doesn't mean that if FFG pitched something that Disney had a severe aversion to that they might not get told "no, find something else to use." But this is the way it's always been. Lucasfilm has always had final say. Nothing has changed when it comes to FFG.
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Dec 26, 2015 14:32
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lenoon posted:Id imagine armada will get a gozanti as well eventually, probably as a small base carrier type with a good squadron command rating and not much else. Gozanti might show up as a squadron like the Rogues, but I doubt it will be a full ship: they're barely bigger than the Ghost. I certainly hope we get those baby cruisers, though: I quite like them.
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Dec 26, 2015 15:14
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Strobe posted:All of the explicitly Legends ships in X-wing were either in production or released before Disney did the split. COunterpoint: The Mist-Hunter is a legends ship as is Punishing One.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:37
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bunnyofdoom posted:COunterpoint: The Mist-Hunter is a legends ship as is Punishing One. Yeah, I think like in everything else, FFG takes what they like from the EU and discards what they don't.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:39
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alg posted:But this is the way it's always been. Lucasfilm has always had final say. Nothing has changed when it comes to FFG. The difference likely comes down to the degree of "EU permissiveness" between Lucasfilm and Disney with regards to old canon stuff. Lucas greenlit the Yuzhan Vong for instance, there were a bunch of novels about that poo poo, so if FFG decided they really, really wanted to add Yuzhan Vong to their games then why would Lucasfilm say no when they were the basis of a huge multi-book storyline? Meanwhile Disney probably doesn't want people associating Star Wars with a bunch of Hellraiser-by-way-of-Dark-Eldar S&M aliens flying around in ships that look like squashed turds (oh, and Palpatine was right). Disney let Chuck Wendig namedrop Black Sun in that new novel of his so hey, a criminal organization named Black Sun is canon again, but all the details surrounding Black Sun that were in Shadows of the Empire like Prince Xizor the rape-lizard and his assassin/sexbot sidekick are still in the ???????????????? category until further notice.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:17
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Remember, TCW is canon. And they did have black sun in that. So, z-95's are cannon too.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:26
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bunnyofdoom posted:Remember, TCW is canon. And they did have black sun in that. So, z-95's are cannon too. I haven't actually watched any of the Clone Wars animated stuff, but from what I recall hearing it also features characters like Dengar and Bossk which is how they've been "recanonized" as more than single scene silent background extras from Empire Strikes Back, but I don't know how much of their Clone Wars appearance jives with the stuff that was written about them in the EU novels.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:39
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Kai Tave posted:I haven't actually watched any of the Clone Wars animated stuff, but from what I recall hearing it also features characters like Dengar and Bossk which is how they've been "recanonized" as more than single scene silent background extras from Empire Strikes Back, but I don't know how much of their Clone Wars appearance jives with the stuff that was written about them in the EU novels. In TCW they were part of a bounty hunter team being paid to escort a train with precious cargo, the team was background for the growth of a young Boba Fett, and the partial redemption of ex-sith Asajj Ventress. Dengar was also in a later episode without any lines, where he and some other Bounty Hunters were guarding the Hutts, before they got their poo poo absolutely kicked in by Dath Maul and Savage. I think Dengar may have been the first one thrown off the train, but that was because he was at the back, though he took out half a dozen of them hand to hand and with grenades first. Isn't he some kind of comic relief in the EU? Bossk is just big and angry, I think that probably checks out.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:03
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FFGs StarWars games themselves are not "cannon" (which is why an ewok deck can fight and beat star destroyer deck in the LCG)
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Dec 27, 2015 00:34
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zVxTeflon posted:FFGs StarWars games themselves are not "cannon" (which is why an ewok deck can fight and beat star destroyer deck in the LCG) Seeing as a cannon is a large projective weapon, I don't think anyone is expecting a game to be one of those.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:37
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jivjov posted:Seeing as a cannon is a large projective weapon, I don't think anyone is expecting a game to be one of those. Well this line of discussion was certainly a large bore
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Dec 27, 2015 00:54
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NTRabbit posted:Bossk is just big and angry, I think that probably checks out. Whenever I think of Bossk I think of this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VBoB5zuOFg
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Dec 27, 2015 00:57
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canyoneer posted:Well this line of discussion was certainly a large bore 
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Dec 27, 2015 01:20
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Kai Tave posted:The difference likely comes down to the degree of "EU permissiveness" between Lucasfilm and Disney with regards to old canon stuff. Lucas greenlit the Yuzhan Vong for instance, there were a bunch of novels about that poo poo, so if FFG decided they really, really wanted to add Yuzhan Vong to their games then why would Lucasfilm say no when they were the basis of a huge multi-book storyline? Meanwhile Disney probably doesn't want people associating Star Wars with a bunch of Hellraiser-by-way-of-Dark-Eldar S&M aliens flying around in ships that look like squashed turds (oh, and Palpatine was right). Disney let Chuck Wendig namedrop Black Sun in that new novel of his so hey, a criminal organization named Black Sun is canon again, but all the details surrounding Black Sun that were in Shadows of the Empire like Prince Xizor the rape-lizard and his assassin/sexbot sidekick are still in the ???????????????? category until further notice. EU stuff was never canon.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:21
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alg posted:EU stuff was never canon. There was a hierarchy of canon: G-Canon was the films and anything established by Lucas himself. T-Canon was Clone Wars and other TV stuff that never actually materialized C-Canon was the majority of books, novels, game plots, etc. S-canon is a bunch of older stuff like the first run of Marvel comics, old RPG sourcebooks etc N-canon was the only Non Canon stuff, including deliberately non canonical stuff like What If stories, as well as things that got de canonized. Things were canonical until such time as something higher up the hierarchy invalidated it.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:33
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alg posted:EU stuff was never canon. Lucas himself put The Force Unleased video games on par with the movies for "what is canon," and I'm pretty sure Shadows of the Empire was given the same consideration. And in general terms, EU stuff may have been varying degrees of canon but most creators wound up treating it like it was all one big pile of common stuff to draw on which is why early Star Wars novel writers got sent stacks of West End Games RPG supplements as bibles and why people are up in arms over how the animated Rebels changed the history of things like the B-Wing. NTRabbit posted:In TCW they were part of a bounty hunter team being paid to escort a train with precious cargo, the team was background for the growth of a young Boba Fett, and the partial redemption of ex-sith Asajj Ventress. Dengar was also in a later episode without any lines, where he and some other Bounty Hunters were guarding the Hutts, before they got their poo poo absolutely kicked in by Dath Maul and Savage. In the EU Dengar is a hotshot pilot and bounty hunter who gets hosed up in a crash and Imperial scientists mess around with his brain. He's the opposite of a comic relief character because he's had pretty much all emotions burned out of him.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:35
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Kai Tave posted:why people are up in arms over how the animated Rebels changed the history of things like the B-Wing. Rebels was never part of the old Legends continuity; whatever Rebels says is the history of the B-Wing is the Canonical history of the B-Wing, because Rebels is part of the new Story Group canon, in which there is no hierarchy. Every canon source is exactly as canon as every other source.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:39
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jivjov posted:Rebels was never part of the old Legends continuity; whatever Rebels says is the history of the B-Wing is the Canonical history of the B-Wing, because Rebels is part of the new Story Group canon, in which there is no hierarchy. Every canon source is exactly as canon as every other source. Yes, that's my point, people are complaining because Disney is doing their own thing instead of abiding by 30-some-odd years of accumulated pseudohistory.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:47
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jivjov posted:There was a hierarchy of canon: And Leland Chee has said that these always really existed as either film or not film continuities, separated.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:48
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alg posted:And Leland Chee has said that these always really existed as either film or not film continuities, separated. Correct; all the live action numbered films were G-canon. The clone wars movie was T-Canon. The ewok movies were C-canon.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:50
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This was a stupid argument even back when it halfway mattered. It has only gotten more stupid the longer it's been since Disney took over.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:51
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So is anyone actually getting any games in? Anything coming up they are grabbing?
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Dec 27, 2015 02:45
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Whenever I think of Bossk I think of this- You and I are friends.
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Dec 27, 2015 03:14
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