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NTRabbit posted:A few pages back, but this was covered when the new, approved by Disney, TFA edition of the Star Wars X-Wing miniatures game came out in September: the old craft was the T-65 X-Wing, the new one is the T-70 X-Wing, the engines are different, the S foils lock tighter, and the nose is sleeker and longer. Might be helpful to consider the T-65 to be an F-18A Hornet, and the T-70 an F-18E Super Hornet - looks kinda the same, but when you park them side by side you can see the difference, and when you crack open the panels the differences just multiply. Supposedly, even the T-70 is a former New Republic starfighter, with the unseen T-85 being the current-field X-wing in use with the New Republic fleet. Nessus posted:To be specific they blew up the New Republic capital, which apparently moves around. That wasn't Coruscant they blew up. It would have been great if this was explained, but political words outside of the opening crawl were probably considered too risky. I was probably imagining something like the Imperial Palace Frigate from Dune, where it transports the Emperor's throne room wherever he goes. But, it's probably like hosting the Olympics or the World Cup, the host planet gets selected and builds a bunch of administration buildings to seat the Senate and anchor the fleet. Old Kentucky Shark posted:To continue the analogy; Space-ISIS just nuked Space-Washington DC and the Space-Pentagon. The Republic isn't dead, but they are seriously crippled, and the New Order is in a position to blitzkrieg them. The other thing, like in some of these real-world analogies, is that there's probably sympathizers in the New Republic that don't think it's the best thing since Bantha-burgers. That at least with the Emperor, there was stability and pensions and not all these freaky aliens running around. People forget that one of the reasons why ISIS stomped Ramadi wasn't just because they scared the poo poo out of the people there, there's folks who secretly want them because it would be better than being run by Shia or Kurds, or why places like Crimea and Donbass in Ukraine fell with little resistance to the Russians. Pakled posted:Certain elements of the Legends EU can be made canon without it meaning that every part of the referenced work is also canon. Supposedly, Dark Troopers are a legit thing, since they've appeared in two video games since the reset, SW: Commander and Star Wars Uprising. It figures that something like "Experimental Power Armored Stormtroopers" would definitely be a thing from the EU worth saving, especially for video games. hobbesmaster posted:That isn't a plot hole. Yeah, Starkiller was this "all-or-nothing" Hail Mary play by the First Order. It's just that the first shot they get with it is probably the best one they got out of it, because they crippled the Republic. It would be like the Battle of the Bulge, except Hitler managed to push all the way to Paris instead of just breaking out of the Ardennes forest.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:10
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Ammanas posted:Super death laser planet only being able to shoot twice then its functionally useless is a good start They destroyed the entire New Republic senate along with probably a major chunk of the fleet in one shot. How is that "functionally useless", exactly? The Death Star was a weapon of terror designed to keep the Empire's star systems under tight control. Starkiller Base was a hail-mary weapon designed to pre-emptively cripple the New Republic.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:15
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hobbesmaster posted:What plot holes were there? Remember something not explicitly explained in the film is not necessarily a plot hole Maybe "really dumb elements" would be a better term for it. Things like all five planets that Starkiller targets being bizarrely close together (and if the capital of the new republic is literally within sight of Maz's place, why didn't Han just go there?). Or the generally ludicrously short time frames that a bunch of stuff happens in due to the frenetic editing. It's annoying, but I understand the need for a certain amount of visual shorthand, and the movie is drat good fun in spite of it.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:19
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Ammanas posted:Super death laser planet only being able to shoot twice then its functionally useless is a good start The planet can fairly obviously move. Wingnut Ninja posted:Maybe "really dumb elements" would be a better term for it. Things like all five planets that Starkiller targets being bizarrely close together (and if the capital of the new republic is literally within sight of Maz's place, why didn't Han just go there?). Or the generally ludicrously short time frames that a bunch of stuff happens in due to the frenetic editing. It's annoying, but I understand the need for a certain amount of visual shorthand, and the movie is drat good fun in spite of it. Starkiller Base fires weapons that move faster than light. So you can see them hundreds or thousands of parsecs away, because they move faster than light.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:19
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Effectronica posted:Starkiller Base fires weapons that move faster than light. So you can see them hundreds or thousands of parsecs away, because they move faster than light. I don't think that's the case. Ships move faster than light too, but you can't see a ship in hyperspace from another system. I think the only way it works is if the 5 planets Starkiller Base destroyed were all in the same star system as Maz's cantina.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:23
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Pakled posted:I don't think that's the case. Ships move faster than light too, but you can't see a ship in hyperspace from another system. I think the only way it works is if the 5 planets Starkiller Base destroyed were all in the same star system as Maz's cantina. Only in a world where science works as we know it, which clearly isn't in the case in Star Wars. Different physics, different assumptions.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:24
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Pakled posted:I don't think that's the case. Ships move faster than light too, but you can't see a ship in hyperspace from another system. I think the only way it works is if the 5 planets Starkiller Base destroyed were all in the same star system as Maz's cantina. They explain that the weapon moves faster than light. Clearly, if you shoot a laser gun faster than light, it's visible in a way that ships aren't. Looks neat and provides some nice imagery.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:26
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Things like all five planets that Starkiller targets being bizarrely close together There's this thing called a "moon", and some planets have more than one. quote:(and if the capital of the new republic is literally within sight of Maz's place, why didn't Han just go there?). There's two "good side" factions: New Republic and Resistance. New Republic merely "tolerates" the Resistance, having signed a peace treaty with the Empire and not wanting it to be ruined by over-zealous guerrilla fighters. Han Solo was a war hero, but didn't have much to gain by going to the New Republic (especially since he had broken up with Leia and gone back to smuggling).
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Dec 27, 2015 05:26
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OxMan posted:I worded that really badly. I meant to say having the first line be fearless snark from Poe so early in the movie undermined him much more than Leia did Vader. Like the movie told me off the bat not to worry about discount Revan. Again, I understand what they were going for, i just felt they took it too far too soon. Now as for the second point, I think that's just a difference in how we view your average jedi knight/master, but I'd say the movies support the nigh unkillable jedi since USUALLY the only time a jedi dies/loses in a fair fight is against dark side users, or top tier bounty hunters, outside of being blindsided by 66. A bunch of Jedi die in the first fight at Geonosis, which I think is kind of a clearer idea of how Jedis are supposed to be viewed in large-scale battles. They're a serious threat that must be addressed but the way they're potrayed as most effective is as members of strike teams. If you send a Jedi/a pair of Jedi in they can use their powers and abilities effectively but in a full-scale battle they're less effective. The Jedi are viewed as unkillable but the actuality doesn't seem to match up. (Anakin says nobody can kill a Jedi and Qui-Gon sadly says that he wishes it were so.) The impression I get from the films (and I think they back this up) is that a Force user is a serious threat but they're not going to go Dynasty Warriors on anyone. (I know there's errata stuff like The Force Unleashed or the Clone Wars animated cartoon that present them this way but I think it's fair to say that stuff is at least somewhat exaggerated and not really how they are portrayed in the films. Wingnut Ninja posted:Maybe "really dumb elements" would be a better term for it. Things like all five planets that Starkiller targets being bizarrely close together (and if the capital of the new republic is literally within sight of Maz's place, why didn't Han just go there?). Or the generally ludicrously short time frames that a bunch of stuff happens in due to the frenetic editing. It's annoying, but I understand the need for a certain amount of visual shorthand, and the movie is drat good fun in spite of it. The five planets were all in the same system, they mention they're just targeting a specific system.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:Only in a world where science works as we know it, which clearly isn't in the case in Star Wars. Different physics, different assumptions. This important. A plot hole is when a movie (or story) violates its own rules.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:36
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Ammanas posted:Super death laser planet only being able to shoot twice then its functionally useless is a good start You don't know how many stars there were in those system or whether Stark Iller base could be moved to a different system.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:42
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enraged_camel posted:There's this thing called a "moon", and some planets have more than one Even for moons they're shown claustrophobically close together. It's the same deal as Spock seeing Vulcan get destroyed in Star Trek: The Star Trek; it looks really impressive without making much sense.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:47
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Arglebargle III posted:Stark Iller base New name for Iron Man's hideout coined.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:48
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 "S-T-A-R-K-I-L-L-E-R B-A-S-E.....that spells MOON."
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Dec 27, 2015 05:49
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Saw the movie, finally. It was good, but felt a little callback heavy, hopefully the next two will have their own things going on. I assume there's some sort of redemption arc for Kylo Ren in the cards, although with what he did at the end of the movie, I wouldn't be too sour if the arc's climax featured Rey delivering a pithy variant on "No" and shooting him in the face.
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Dec 27, 2015 06:38
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With Finn "breaking" his programming in 7, I wonder if we'll get a situation where he bros out with Poe for all of episode 8 but then gets captured by Phasma at the end. He's then given "re-education" and is made loyal to the Order again which sets up Rey trying to save him going into 9. If you really want to play up the angst, he could kill off another of the returning/new main leads. That particular plot line has been done before in other movies and shows (Hunger Games? Battlestar Galactica?), which might be a strike against it though.
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Dec 27, 2015 06:45
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Ren's goal in life is to be like Darth Vader. I think he will accomplish that in his death and that his redemption will be a sacrifice.
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Dec 27, 2015 06:55
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Pyrolocutus posted:Saw the movie, finally. It was good, but felt a little callback heavy, hopefully the next two will have their own things going on. I doubt Ren will be redeemed, he's just not full-on babyeating dark side yet. As much as he wishes he could be.
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Dec 27, 2015 06:59
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Teek posted:With Finn "breaking" his programming in 7, I wonder if we'll get a situation where he bros out with Poe for all of episode 8 but then gets captured by Phasma at the end. He's then given "re-education" and is made loyal to the Order again which sets up Rey trying to save him going into 9. If you really want to play up the angst, he could kill off another of the returning/new main leads. That particular plot line has been done before in other movies and shows (Hunger Games? Battlestar Galactica?), which might be a strike against it though. This is what I predict sorta. Being unconscious is going to cause him to revert to his programming and episode 8 will see him break out as captured stormtrooper basically. It would certainly be cool if they did something like that.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:00
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TheMaestroso posted:May have missed this being mentioned, but after seeing the movie for the second time I don't think Rey has a special bloodline (that we know about). When Maz talks to her after the Force vision she says that Rey knows that going back to Jakku is pointless, because she's waiting for a family that won't return (implying they're dead - this would mean no Luke or Leia relations). Maz then basically says that Luke can take the place of guidance and family she's been missing. I think this helps make the ending scene more powerful, because it shows that she accepts her loss and wants to move forward.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:03
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Probably already covered before in the thread, but does anyone else speculating on the next Star Wars installment being a reverse take on Luke's training adventures with Yoda? Ren is being summoned back to spend time with Snoke to finish his training. I'm assuming this will be featured significantly the next installment. Might be a bit tedious to see both the dark side training along with Rey's instruction at the hands of Luke. Maybe it all ends up with Ren cutting his training short with Snoke ala Luke and somehow is redeemed with episode 9 having a redeemed Ren helping finish off Snoke and the First Order once and for all and apologizing to and/or rehabilitating Luke's self esteem after his supposed Jedi training gently caress up and getting the Jedi training program back in place.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:07
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I think Luke isn't gonna make it to ep 9.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:08
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Mark Hamill will get main title billing for standing around as a force ghost for a few minutes.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:10
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The Ninth Layer posted:I sorta got the opposite impression when Maz pulls out the lightsaber and goes "this was Luke's saber and before that it was his father's" and the unspoken implication is that now it's Rey's because she's next in the Skywalker line. I suppose we will find out in ep 8 when Luke gets some lines. If it's another repeat of the previous trilogy, Luke and Rey will fall for each other until they find out the truth in Episode 9.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:11
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Personally I think it'd be p lovely if Luke gets Kenobi'd rather than Yoda'd, which makes me wonder what was Yoda's secret to longevity, like was he just not on the radar enough of the dark side or didn't get into many situations jeopardizing his life or was he just that badass a Jedi?
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Dec 27, 2015 07:14
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Rip Testes posted:Personally I think it'd be p lovely if Luke gets Kenobi'd rather than Yoda'd, which makes me wonder what was Yoda's secret to longevity, like was he just not on the radar enough of the dark side or didn't get into many situations jeopardizing his life or was he just that badass a Jedi? I just assume his species lives a long rear end time.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:15
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I just assume his species lives a long rear end time. Interesting he never ended up on the wrong end of a saber fight despite the greater odds of this happening given his life span.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:17
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Rip Testes posted:Personally I think it'd be p lovely if Luke gets Kenobi'd rather than Yoda'd, which makes me wonder what was Yoda's secret to longevity, like was he just not on the radar enough of the dark side or didn't get into many situations jeopardizing his life or was he just that badass a Jedi? A. The galaxy was relatively peaceful prior to The Phantom Menace and so on, so the odds of random Jedi death were low B. Nine hundred year fiend, smokin' dagobah green C. He's just that good with the Force and succeeded where Windu failed D. both A and C E. All of the above
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Dec 27, 2015 07:22
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TheMaestroso posted:May have missed this being mentioned, but after seeing the movie for the second time I don't think Rey has a special bloodline (that we know about). When Maz talks to her after the Force vision she says that Rey knows that going back to Jakku is pointless, because she's waiting for a family that won't return (implying they're dead - this would mean no Luke or Leia relations). Maz then basically says that Luke can take the place of guidance and family she's been missing. I think this helps make the ending scene more powerful, because it shows that she accepts her loss and wants to move forward. I hope this is true. Having Rey be related to Luke or Leia would be incredibly predictable & anti-climatic.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:32
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Rip Testes posted:Interesting he never ended up on the wrong end of a saber fight despite the greater odds of this happening given his life span. Well the Jedi were at peace for a thousand years before the Clone Wars. And in my head canon Yoda never used a lightsaber anyway.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:39
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I saw the movie the other day and I have to say it was pretty good. The two main things I'd say were weaknesses is that I thought it was about 20 minutes too long, and Rey was a little too omnicompetent, and I feel like her character could have used a bit more in the way of a flaw. However, I think the next movies will help expand her character. I think Finn was probably slightly more interesting, but I think I'm just a bit of a sucker for the cowardly lion type. I had two questions though, why was Maz fairly insistent that Finn use the lightsaber as a weapon, and when all those planets were destroyed was the screaming the victims of the massacre or the people witnessing it? When I first saw it I thought it was the former but I'm not sure.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:45
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Immortan posted:I hope this is true. Having Rey be related to Luke or Leia would be incredibly predictable & anti-climatic. Isn't it painfully obvious that he is Leia and Han's son?
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Dec 27, 2015 07:45
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Wish I'd seen this thread first instead of the other one. Saw it today, generally thought it was good, if a little bit explicit in reshuffling the aesthetics and popular beats of the OT. Thought Carrie Fisher's wry, composed Leia was awesome and look forward to her role in the next two. My only story complaint is that after multiple scenes centered on characters' capacity to withstand interrogation the supposedly-badass Commander Phasma is coerced into enabling the rebel attack extremely easily and with no complications, which Viller in the other thread informs me was a late reshoot to cover an omitted rebel superweapon, so  And does anyone have any production shots of the cool yellow maintenance droid from the shot where Han tells Chewbacca to speed up repair of the Falcon before they leave for the superweapon planet? Thing immediately struck me as the new gonk droid 
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Dec 27, 2015 07:51
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Technetium posted:Isn't it painfully obvious that he is Leia and Han's son?
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Dec 27, 2015 08:03
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Wish I'd seen this thread first instead of the other one. Saw it today, generally thought it was good, if a little bit explicit in reshuffling the aesthetics and popular beats of the OT. Thought Carrie Fisher's wry, composed Leia was awesome and look forward to her role in the next two. My only story complaint is that after multiple scenes centered on characters' capacity to withstand interrogation the supposedly-badass Commander Phasma is coerced into enabling the rebel attack extremely easily and with no complications, which Viller in the other thread informs me was a late reshoot to cover an omitted rebel superweapon, so What is the other thread up to anyway? Seems stupid to have two threads now.
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Dec 27, 2015 08:07
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The Ninth Layer posted:I think Luke isn't gonna make it to ep 9. Mark Hamill seems to really love Star Wars and I'm sure he doesn't mind the work. Why kill him off now? He could be around till hes 80 like guiness and lee.
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Dec 27, 2015 08:37
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Saw the movie, was pleasantly diverted duration its duration, but that's it. I'm already forgetting everything that happened in it. It was as rote and unexceptional as I expected it to be. Alas, I do sincerely believe that the much derided prequel series will be of more interest to future generations. Despite the flaws of those movies -- and there were plenty--they were still made by a creative genius with a vision. The Force Awakens gets right all those little things Lucas got wrong (acting, stilted dialogue, etc) but it lacks the vision and world-building and tragic grandeur of that series. "The Force Awakens" may be a box office winner, but it doesn't merit the rapturous love that the original trilogy so richly deserved. Lucas shouldn't have sold the rights to Star Wars. He should have stubbornly kept making Star Wars films. Better that Lucas makes another epic failure out of the material than J.J Abrams make some rote and pedestrian fluff out of it. Congrats, nerds. Your ceaseless and unhinged criticism of the prequel trilogy led a visionary genius to handing off his intellectual property to mediocrities like J.J Abrams. I hope you reconsider your praise for this new Star Wars films whenever it gets released on DVD and you find yourself not so eager to own it or even watch it ever again.
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Dec 27, 2015 08:39
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Gorelab posted:I saw the movie the other day and I have to say it was pretty good. The two main things I'd say were weaknesses is that I thought it was about 20 minutes too long, and Rey was a little too omnicompetent, and I feel like her character could have used a bit more in the way of a flaw. However, I think the next movies will help expand her character. I think Finn was probably slightly more interesting, but I think I'm just a bit of a sucker for the cowardly lion type. Really? I think it's the exact opposite: it was 135 minutes long, but could have used another 20, if not 30 minutes of character and universe-building. They really should have taken the time to explain in more detail the current state of galactic politics, for example. Just by reading the posts in this thread you can tell a lot of people are quite a bit confused about New Republic vs. Resistance etc. A scene where Leia contacts the New Republic senate and asks them for help in the battle against Starkiller Base, and get accused of paranoid warmongering -- followed by Starkiller Base firing and destroying the Senate -- would have cleared a lot of things up (e.g. the question of "why did they attack Starkiller Base with just two X-Wing squadrons and no capital ships?"). Poe and Phasma could also have used more screen time and fleshing out. The first Lord of the Rings movie was 178 minutes for that reason: huge universe, lots of characters to build and a complex background to explain. TFA could really have used some scenes that are the LOTR-equivalent of Bilbo's going away party and Gandalf's fireworks. Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 08:46
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starry skies above posted:Saw the movie, was pleasantly diverted duration its duration, but that's it. I'm already forgetting everything that happened in it. It was as rote and unexceptional as I expected it to be. Alas, I do sincerely believe that the much derided prequel series will be of more interest to future generations. Despite the flaws of those movies -- and there were plenty--they were still made by a creative genius with a vision. The Force Awakens gets right all those little things Lucas got wrong (acting, stilted dialogue, etc) but it lacks the vision and world-building and tragic grandeur of that series. "The Force Awakens" may be a box office winner, but it doesn't merit the rapturous love that the original trilogy so richly deserved. Lucas shouldn't have sold the rights to Star Wars. He should have stubbornly kept making Star Wars films. Better that Lucas makes another epic failure out of the material than J.J Abrams make some rote and pedestrian fluff out of it. Congrats, nerds. Your ceaseless and unhinged criticism of the prequel trilogy led a visionary genius to handing off his intellectual property to mediocrities like J.J Abrams. I hope you reconsider your praise for this new Star Wars films whenever it gets released on DVD and you find yourself not so eager to own it or even watch it ever again. Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna keep being happy with it. Thanks, though.
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Dec 27, 2015 08:49
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So in ep 8 the love triangleof Finn/Rey and Finn/Poe will be given more screen time right?
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Dec 27, 2015 08:50
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wins.