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spectralent posted:It's been being written for ages now, I think. I backed it and I don't think I have a backer copy yet. It's been sent to the backers, did you miss the update with it? It's still not available for sale or anything for people who didn't back it though.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:09
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The backer copies have been sent out, but all the peripheral stuff has been in development hell forever.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:10
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Huh; must've done. I'll dig through emails later.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:11
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Anything new in PbtA land? In other words, anything to add to the OP?
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Dec 21, 2015 00:05
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You can get an early draft of the Kill Six Billion Demons rpg if you support his Patreon, I suppose?
Megazver fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 00:12
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I've linked works in kickstarter so I suppose this is acceptable.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:15
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How would you give this game a marketing blurb? I've never read the comic before and don't know how to summarize a game based on it?
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Dec 21, 2015 00:39
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That's, uh, a good question.  Kill Six Billion Demons is a game of extraordinary and powerful wuxia beings and their struggle in the ruins of a multiverse inhabited by thousands of races and cultures and ruled by seven tyrant demiurges. It mixes the insanity of french comics and heavy metal covers with hinduist and gnostic mythology.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:11
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Alright, added to the OP.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:18
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Covok posted:How would you give this game a marketing blurb? I've never read the comic before and don't know how to summarize a game based on it? The gods have died, the angels shattered by the hand of man and all the 777,777 multiverses are spinning off the corpse of heaven. Try to survive as an angel forged of stone by humans, devils bound to mortal bodies through the power of the dread black flame, servants who were built to bring the universe to order or an ordinary human just trying to stay alive. Or the tagline for most of the series "Reach Heaven Through Violence"
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Dec 21, 2015 01:23
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^ That's p. good.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:26
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Yeah, that seems like it would work better. So, to those who got the playtest, is it the pits or actually good?
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Dec 21, 2015 01:28
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I haven't played it, but it's a fairly early draft. You could see for yourself.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:36
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Skimming it over, it doesn't look great. I'll admit I didn't read the whole thing, but some parts seemed a little messed up. Like, damage die seem like a poor choice and the moves make odd references like "can't talk for 1 minute." Might have just read the bad parts, but it doesn't feel like Abbadon (isn't that like the angel of hell) is playing to the system's strength.
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Dec 21, 2015 02:04
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It seems like they're doing the old mistake of adapting an existing *World game (DW in this case) instead of designing things specifically to the setting.
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Dec 21, 2015 02:11
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It's an understandable mistake, I suppose. It seems safer on paper to go with what works. That's why we got so many games that ape pre-existing games instead of going out and making something completely from scratch. Though, it would work out better if this were a FATE game or something similar which supports that style of design. That said, I don't know if that's necessarily what's happening here. Like I said, didn't read the whole thing.
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Dec 21, 2015 02:20
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Hey! I am Abbadon (guy who makes Kill Six Billion Demons), thanks for checking out my comic/weird RPG hack. The RPG has always been a side project for me to my comic (which consumes most of my time). I chose PbTA to try and write a game in because I love its core game philosophy of consequence and narrative. I did actually write an earlier version much closer to Dungeon World, but I found that I didn't like the combat flow in that very much. I did include damage die of a sort in this version just so there's a little bit of randomness in the damage and a system to interact with. It's still a glorified harm mechanic. I am a little hesitant to call it final because I feel like it makes the damage a little spiky, and I'm very open to changing things up. I've thought about re-writing some of the core moves/statistics to be more setting-specific, but I also want to keep it accessible - as much as I liked Apocalypse World (and it's probably my favorite RPG system), it was a royal pain in the rear end having to explain the difference between going aggro and seizing by force. If you have any feedback or pointers I'm very open to them - it's my first time writing a game system. I decided to write the RPG mainly because of interest.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:24
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Very few post *AW games use Seize/Aggro, even the new version doesn't use it. But the way you do combat in Fellowship, Monsterhearts, MoTW and Masks are all different without being confusing or swingy.
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Dec 26, 2015 20:02
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Operant posted:Hey! I am Abbadon (guy who makes Kill Six Billion Demons), thanks for checking out my comic/weird RPG hack. The RPG has always been a side project for me to my comic (which consumes most of my time). I chose PbTA to try and write a game in because I love its core game philosophy of consequence and narrative. Hello, Abbadon. Welcome to SA. I haven't had a chance to really read it through, but I'd love to give you some feedback when I get the chance. Until I have a chance to read it over, I am a little curious about one aspect you mentioned. I hope this does come off as rude and I'll admit it presumptuous of me to ask such a question before having a chance to sit down and check your work, but why do you feel that the damage system needs randomness? Most PbtA titles don't use damage dice and, personally, I'm not a fan of their inclusion in Dungeon World, though it was in-line with their goals (emulation of Basic D&D). I am bias due to this I'll admit, but I do feel that damage randomness doesn't tend to add things to these titles.
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Dec 27, 2015 04:12
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Why do most PBTA games not use random damage? I assumed from the ones I read (which to be fair is not many) that it was because they do not focus on combat, and I imagined that since K6BD does focus on that to a certain extent an element of randomness would avoid having the combatants plink away at each other inflicting a standard amount of damage, making combat predictable.
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Dec 27, 2015 09:21
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Operant posted:If you have any feedback or pointers I'm very open to them - it's my first time writing a game system. I decided to write the RPG mainly because of interest. Heya, I just applied to two Broken World playtests we're doing on SA and I did have a question - starting out with a ranged weapon (Great Gun in my case), do you begin with any ammunition? Didn't see anything about such in the rules. Side note, this would be my first *world game and it looks pretty rad to me!
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Dec 27, 2015 15:46
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paradoxGentleman posted:Why do most PBTA games not use random damage? I assumed from the ones I read (which to be fair is not many) that it was because they do not focus on combat, and I imagined that since K6BD does focus on that to a certain extent an element of randomness would avoid having the combatants plink away at each other inflicting a standard amount of damage, making combat predictable. Generally, if it has numerical damage at all (Some don't, exactly) the 'randomness' in damage comes from the attack roll. You might get an option to do more damage on a success, (or take less damage from your opponent as part of an exchange of blows. ) So there's still a random factor, it's just not 'let's add a second roll of the dice'.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:34
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Dungeon world has each class use a different die for their damage rolls so you might check that out but honestly the damage does not matter as much as the result of all the other rolls. But it's been done before.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:42
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Golden Bee posted:Very few post *AW games use Seize/Aggro, even the new version doesn't use it. But the way you do combat in Fellowship, Monsterhearts, MoTW and Masks are all different without being confusing or swingy. The new version of AW? If so, link or explanation would be appreciated.
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Dec 28, 2015 01:44
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AriTheDog posted:The new version of AW? If so, link or explanation would be appreciated. If you support Vincent Baker on his Patreon, you get early access to the second edition of Apocalypse World. I haven't read it but I hear there have been some fairly substantial changes (Driver and Operator being mashed into a single playbook, Maestro D' and Quarantine being upgraded to core playbooks)
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Dec 28, 2015 02:44
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So after having read the first 7 pages of this thread, I want to ask if I should consider turning The Next Project into a PbtA hack. I think it checks the boxes for "having a particular niche in mind" and already has math/mechanics that could probably be translated over. I just wonder if the game tries to do too little for it to make valuable/suitable use of what PbtA does. Or, conversely, would converting help the system grow in a constructive direction? 
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Dec 28, 2015 09:53
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So, I've been working on a pbta game recently. The idea came out of playing DnD4e, and reading some of the flavour text for the various later level powers, and paragon paths, and comparing it to the mechanics. Obviously, 4e is a rule-heavy game, and it communicates its fiction to the players via mechanics. This is fine, and 4e is great fun to build for and play, but the idea stuck with me of being able to represent and a Paragon-tier, or even low-Epic-tier hero with something other than more/bigger numbers. I'm trying for a feeling of the characters being overwhelmingly more powerful than everyone around them (no equal-level orcs and bandits!), so combat is only meaningful with something that would take a whole company or more of normal people to fight, and, of course, with individual bad guys who are as powerful and determined. So, something like a cross between Heroic Fantasy and Superheroes. Please have a look - it's in the early stages, and I really could use some advice, opinions, critique, and nitpicks. The draft is here
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Dec 31, 2015 01:47
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paradoxGentleman posted:Why do most PBTA games not use random damage? I assumed from the ones I read (which to be fair is not many) that it was because they do not focus on combat, and I imagined that since K6BD does focus on that to a certain extent an element of randomness would avoid having the combatants plink away at each other inflicting a standard amount of damage, making combat predictable. PBTA games aren't meant to have combat in the "two people plink away at each other" sense, because combat in PBTA must always be contextual. You can't "make a standard attack" without doing something, and that will likely imply future things. Like, take "I charge"; you're moving at speed at someone to harm them. So, maybe you hit, and knock the guy through something and end up outside, or you both tumble over and end up awkwardly close and struggling over a dagger, or you miss and overshoot and now your dagger's stuck in a wall. Even in combat, you need to do something to do it, which should mean your combat isn't a static pair of people flailing at each other.
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Dec 31, 2015 12:38
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It looks like AW: Dark Ages has, potentially, changed to AW: Fallen Empires. Or, at the very least, Vincent has released a Fantasy-AW game on his Patreon recently.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:06
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He also apparently handed off his notes for Dark Ages to Sage Latorra and John Harper to try and work up into something.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:14
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unseenlibrarian posted:He also apparently handed off his notes for Dark Ages to Sage Latorra and John Harper to try and work up into something. I wonder how that will turn out. DW: 2nd Edition, perhaps? On that subject matter, AW: Fallen Empire feels a lot like the AW: 2nd Edition preview from before with changes to make it a fantasy game. There might be too many, non-playbook moves.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:18
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Covok posted:I wonder how that will turn out. DW: 2nd Edition, perhaps? Fallen Empires is literally just a sword and sorcery rewrite of the base AW playbooks and moves. Most of them didn't change much mechanically but the Angel becoming the Bonepicker is pretty dope.
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Jan 1, 2016 18:16
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Any links to fallen empires?
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Jan 1, 2016 23:30
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Josef bugman posted:Any links to fallen empires? Can't. It's behind a patreon paywall and we aren't supposed to give links out. It isn't much, to be honest. It really is just a reskinned AW 2nd Edition with some tweaks. It's...underwhelming.
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Jan 1, 2016 23:36
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Ah thats fine then, was just wondering if there was something with a Kickstarter I could help (missed out on the Urban shadows one and still a bit miffed at that).
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Jan 2, 2016 00:54
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GimpInBlack posted:D'aww, thanks. I had a ton of fun [MOTW]. I'm definitely not opposed to running it again over Roll20 or Hangouts or something, but funny enough I might be a few weeks away from another international, cross-continental move (going back the other way this time). But if you (and any of the other players who might read this) shoot me an email at my screen name on gmail, I'll let you know how stuff shakes out and see if we can't schedule something. Hey, reminder to do this.
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Jan 2, 2016 02:50
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You know, a thing occurred to me as I was reading Urban Shadows. PbtA games are all about the fiction and the conversation, so why not use them to create overarching fictions? A lot of the basic moves are still in a traditional elfgaming mode where they deal with micro situations. The most egregious example of this is the harm move. It is basically D&D "do I hit the dude?" shoved awkwardly into a narrative box, which leads to weird poo poo like punching a guy causes more guys to spawn from nowhere. Since if you don't have king-hell harm, a fight can take a few unleash actions, you can potentially get a narrative hydra situation. A way to solve that would be to make your harm move affect a generic "enemy side" and then more dudes = less harm dealt. Another way, working on the macro level, would be to make the harm move work like a Seize By Force that doesn't need a flowchart to adjudicate: you roll once for the entire scene, then narrate what you do based off of the move. There are also situations where it feels like moves would be better suited as setup for a player to get more narrative control of an unplotted instance. Read A Blank immediately comes to mind: instead of it being "on a hit, you only get X," if the move was a macro narrative one, it would be "on a hit, you get to make up/the MC lets you know X" and you'd play to find out what happens with that. If you wanted more, you could use the Manipulate move (for a person) or something like DW's Spout Lore (for a sitch). Also, if the moves were broad like that, then the MC would have solid mechanical rules for their Moves. I believe that would make being MC for a PbtA game easier and create a more engaging play experience for the MC. Hell, if you took it far enough, you could turn the PbtA games into a no or rotating GM system. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 07:24
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I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but that's sort of how my game, Dungeon Bastards, has handled its move structure and how Vincent is experimenting with AW: 2nd Edition. Since I don't know if I can talk about Vincent's work in detail, I'll talk about my own title. My game handled the "1 move to 1 scene" by basically just giving you big, overarching effects to a move that narrate out once a move happens. It's inspired by pbta, not pbta, so it runs off a "once a move triggers, you resolve it and use your successes (if any) to narrate out effects from a list provided by the move." For example: My Dumb Writting posted:Ain't You Tough poo poo? Like I said, I don't know if I can talk a lot about AW: 2nd Edition, but it is moving in a more, mostly, macro-move direction. Or, I suppose, one could argue the opposite depending on how you played AW. See, I do feel one can do a 1 move to 1 scene approach with Apocalypse World. Later PbtA games, I feel, have added a more micro nature to moves. But, AW always gave me the vibe that you could end things on just one move. Let things play out from there, you know? Another goon on here keeps saying that, in AW, you shouldn't roll too often and that's what a lot of later PbtA titles got wrong, his words. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by macro moves, of course.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:48
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Yup, my game tends to have character moves resolve conflicts too. For example, here's Legacy's fighting move:Fiercely Assault posted:When you use violence to hurt, capture or drive off your enemies, roll +Force. On a hit, you've achieved your goal – they're wounded, bound or fleeing. On a 7-9, choose one from your list and the GM chooses two from theirs. On a 10+, choose two from your list and the GM chooses one from theirs. Weapons don't directly affect the mechanics of this move - they work on a tag-based system that determine when you can use this move, and what extra effects they have when used.
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Jan 2, 2016 09:29
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Covok posted:Can't. It's behind a patreon paywall and we aren't supposed to give links out. I though it was fine  The real innovation in the work is the horse-riding mechanisms, which are actually pretty cool. Based on the failures of past attempts (i.e., Driver playbook in AW), VIncent is trying to get a handle on how to do chase and chase/combat scenes correctly in PbtA, and that's totally worthwhile. What's more, his work is headed in the right direction! That is to say: it's headed in the direction of some of the cyberpunk hacks. (And that's a serious improvement! His previous draft of AW2 had horrible hold/spend for each group in the chase!) At any rate, it's a neat foundation, and the rules were certainly worth my patreon money. 
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