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Saw the new starwar, enjoyed it. Liked that Luke's impossible-to-locate hideaway was just Scotland, v true to life. Maz was pretty great and I hope she returns, a light-side jabba type underworld tycoon character is pretty interesting. Did they include any textual reason for R2 turning back on or is it just one of those things? Unless... was R2 Luke's secret first apprentice all along????? 
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Dec 27, 2015 03:49
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Did they include any textual reason for R2 turning back on or is it just one of those things? Unless... was R2 Luke's secret first apprentice all along????? It was precipitated by Rey's arrival, but they never explicitly state that R2-D2 is Force-sensitive.
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Dec 27, 2015 03:56
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It'd be interesting if the force is Awakening for more than just your one/two/small handful of important characters—though maybe a bit of a stretch to expect JJ to tackle the implications of droid personhood. Does anyone have production photos or anything of the chunky yellow droid that is visible when Han tells Chewbacca to hurry up fixing the falcon before they leave for planet deathstar? The industrial-purpose droids are always some of my favorite star wars production designs. I'm also a huge fan of wry, centered Carrie Fisher and hope/expect that Leia will get more to do in the next movies now that the Harrison Ford Showcase Hour has been dispensed with. E: Also, I will mention that as a person generally unbothered by plot holes there is one major one that stuck out to me—how quickly the chrome storm trooper commander gave in and lowered the shield. We get repeated scenes entirely about various characters' interrogations and ability to resist interrogation, and then all it takes to convince the badass NO DEVIATION FROM BEHAVIORAL PROGRAMMING leader to enable the entire rebellion attack is shoving a gun in her face and sitting her down at a bigass console? What reason would she have to not just say no, or hit the silent alarm? I kept expecting a reversal or complication, but... nope. Maybe it's intentional subtextual commentary setting up the first order/its troops as paper tigers? HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 04:48
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punchymcpunch posted:Snoke will obviously have a "sinister English word with the first syllable cut off" name like all the other Siths. Star Wars evil people always have dumb birth names.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:06
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Hazo posted:I like how this rule sort of works for exactly two Sith names and people are still repeating this meme. Tyrannus = darth extraneous
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Dec 27, 2015 05:14
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HookedOnChthonics posted:It'd be interesting if the force is Awakening for more than just your one/two/small handful of important characters—though maybe a bit of a stretch to expect JJ to tackle the implications of droid personhood. Droids being somewhat force sensitive is not farch fetched. I think this will be the case with R2 and why he was litteraly awaken at the end... Perhaps somekind of Luke "mind" control. And for Phasma, I think it was a late addition to remove a big chunk of the plot where the resistance had their own super weapon. Added very late in the game as a reshoot. edit: The droid has some concepts drawings in the art of the force awakens(recommended read for anyone who liked this flick.) Viller fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 05:14
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Hmm, I had pretty much taken the movie at its word that Luke's exile was absolute, but I guess there's nothing but precedent for Skywalkers making big decisions based on feeling loved ones in pain from a galaxy away. That's really interesting about the opposing superweapons—I feel like there would be some real thematic meat to the idea that genocidal atomic weapon analogues are totally endemic to massive central governments 'good' or 'bad.'
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Dec 27, 2015 05:41
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Somewhere George Lucas is all, "See, you people thought coming up with cool outer space names was easy! Not so easy now, is it?"
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Dec 27, 2015 06:12
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Hmm, I had pretty much taken the movie at its word that Luke's exile was absolute, but I guess there's nothing but precedent for Skywalkers making big decisions based on feeling loved ones in pain from a galaxy away. Art book stuff: The concepts had the resistance's super weapon as being a massive ship with a huge armored front hull that could poke through Starkiller shields to "deliver" x-wings into the atmosphere. Called WarHammer. http://imgur.com/xN7FAK1 From earlier leaks I believe they also used this ship to destroy the shields, instead of Phasma turning them off. General Hux would had activated somekind of anti-air weapon at that point to get rid of it.
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Dec 27, 2015 06:15
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So, planning on seeing it this week (I know, I'm a scrub) but beforehand, my old man wants to know one important (for him) detail that I don't know if the thread mentioned- is the Wilhelm Scream in this movie?
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Dec 27, 2015 06:23
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Viller posted:Art book stuff: The concepts had the resistance's super weapon as being a massive ship with a huge armored front hull that could poke through Starkiller shields to "deliver" x-wings into the atmosphere. Called WarHammer. http://imgur.com/xN7FAK1 From earlier leaks I believe they also used this ship to destroy the shields, instead of Phasma turning them off. General Hux would had activated somekind of anti-air weapon at that point to get rid of it. Thematically, it would have been interesting to explore. But I guess the question becomes if you do develop this technology, why would you ever stop using it? You'd get a situation where from then on, the good guys would always have a star destroyer buster. Even if it's destroyed, why stop using it against any new threat which comes up? If it gets destroyed, just rebuild it. It's somewhat the opposite problem of the bad guy super-weapon, because the bad guys would reach a point where they're defeated. While the good guys would win, and it's use stops right there. I guess it's something of the Death Star 2 effect. The Empire still had the infrastructure, it would have worked, so just rebuild it again. Teek fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 06:26
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VolticSurge posted:So, planning on seeing it this week (I know, I'm a scrub) but beforehand, my old man wants to know one important (for him) detail that I don't know if the thread mentioned- is the Wilhelm Scream in this movie? Yes
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Dec 27, 2015 06:28
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Teek posted:Thematically, it would have been interesting to explore. But I guess the question becomes if you do develop this technology, why would you ever stop using it? You'd get a situation where from then on, the good guys would always have a star destroyer buster. Even if it's destroyed, why stop using it against any new threat which comes up? I'm guessing it will be an idea explored in 8 or 9 after the remnants of the republic decide to fight the first order. Interessting stuff to explore there at the same time as the dark/light side of the force. Play in that grey area of politics/religion. Viller fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 06:30
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Snoke is a first name. His family name is Weederyday.
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Dec 27, 2015 08:13
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saw this movie again and i still liked it a lot (although i wish starkiller wasn't quite so unoriginal), it feels way tighter and concise the second time around when you're prepared for how fast the editing in the movie is. also noticed a couple cool world building things when hosnian gets blown up, you can actually see the republic fleet in orbit around the planet before the fleet and the planet are totally vaporised similarly, you can see the new AT-AT things on starkiller base in operation patrolling the planet when han, chewie and finn first land on the base, so there's actual patrolling and perimetre defense plans going on around the planet Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 08:17
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Hazo posted:I like how this rule sort of works for exactly two Sith names and people are still repeating this meme. You forgot (be)Traya and (aurus Rex)Tyranus.
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Dec 27, 2015 09:05
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Some choice clips from a very emotionally honest interview of George Lucas about his selling of the franchise to Disney. It sounds like it really was a hard decision for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hQVlRgFlU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEIrQUXm_hY Money quote: George Lucas posted:They [the Star Wars films] are my kids. I loved them. I created them. I'm very intimately involved with them... and I sold them to the white slavers who take these things and... And this might be the closest we'll ever get to hearing Lucas's true feelings about the new movies: George Lucas posted:The other thing that got abused, naturally in capitalist society, especially in an American point of view, which is the studios and everyone said, "Wow we can make a lot of money. This is the license to kill," and they did it, and of course the only way you can really do that is to not take chances. Only do something that's proven. You gotta remember that Star Wars came from nowhere. American Graffiti came from nowhere. There was nothing like it. Now, if you do anything that's not a sequel, or a TV series, or looks like one, they won't do it... That's the down side of (the influence of ) Star Wars (on Hollywood), and it really shows an enormous lack of imagination, and fear of creativity on the part of an industry. Sounds pretty on-target to me. edit: Seriously though, the entire interview is really really great. It's probably the best, most enlightening look into who George Lucas really is, as an artist and as a person, that I've ever seen. I'd recommend watching it even if you passionately hate the man and think he's a complete imbecile. At least then you can say that you hate him for actual, legitimate reasons. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 09:43
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Cnut the Great posted:Sounds pretty on-target to me. Not really. The argument boils down to "companies are safe with blockbusters" which is true but also not particularly meaningful. There are countless films like American Graffiti on the market. They don't make a billion dollars but neither did American Graffiti and there are still new IPs that show up. They just don't make a billion dollars. The flaw of the 'Hollywood does nothing but sequels and remakes' argument is that it isn't true. There are plenty of non-sequels or not-remakes. There are a lot of adaptations but that isn't anything new. There's certainly something to be said about the fact that the top grossing movies are almost all remakes, sequels or adaptations and what that means but there's plenty of room for lesser stuff. A new untested IP won't get a ridiculous Avengers-level budget but neither did the original Star Wars. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 10:07
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George Lucas posted:You gotta remember that Star Wars came from nowhere. American Graffiti came from nowhere. There was nothing like it. This is a very bold claim. His main point is pretty iffy: lots of movies were adapted from books or plays. 9 of the 10 best picture Oscars in the 60's went to movies that were adapted from another medium, and in the 70's, 8 of the 10 were adapted. It's always been easier to bank on an already-proven idea (or 40-year-old nostalgia, like Star Warses IV through VII did) . It's always been rewarded by both the cinema-going public and by critics. Get off my lawn, comic book movies and TV adaptations! punchymcpunch fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 10:10
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Cnut the Great posted:Some choice clips from a very emotionally honest interview of George Lucas about his selling of the franchise to Disney. It sounds like it really was a hard decision for him: Is there a transcript of this available?
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Dec 27, 2015 10:21
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Bongo Bill posted:Is there a transcript of this available? Not that I can find.
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Dec 27, 2015 10:38
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punchymcpunch posted:This is a very bold claim. Well, it's also untrue because Star Wars is kind of a mix of a whole lot of cool stuff smashed together. Now, a case could be made that the new Star Wars movies are referencing Star Wars instead of other stuff and aren't as... varied? because of that. Instead of being inspired by Smaurai and WWII movies, the new movies are inspired by the old movies. Which is why I was so disppointed when that Star Wars remake of Seven Samurai turned out to be a false rumor.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:09
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While they certainly played it safe it would be neat to see the main line films getting some more inspiration and homages in the mix. Yes yes I know about Rogue One.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:17
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MonsieurChoc posted:Well, it's also untrue because Star Wars is kind of a mix of a whole lot of cool stuff smashed together. Well, he admits that in the interview. But his point is that those are his inspirations, and everyone has inspirations no matter what it is they're trying to do or make. Everything is a mix of a whole lot of stuff smashed together. "There is no new thing under the sun" and all that. But that doesn't mean he just copied everything and didn't try to do anything new. I don't see how anyone could argue that Star Wars wasn't something new. Mixing stuff together in a novel new way is doing something new. quote:Now, a case could be made that the new Star Wars movies are referencing Star Wars instead of other stuff and aren't as... varied? because of that. Instead of being inspired by Smaurai and WWII movies, the new movies are inspired by the old movies. This is basically the crux of the issue. Star Wars is now just cannibalizing itself. There's something incestuous about it. Even Dave Filoni, the head guy on The Clone Wars and Star Wars: Rebels, has said that the key to the success of those shows is that he always tries to look for inspiration from the stories that inspired Star Wars, not necessarily from Star Wars itself.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:33
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Viller posted:Droids being somewhat force sensitive is not farch fetched. I think this will be the case with R2 and why he was litteraly awaken at the end... Perhaps somekind of Luke "mind" control. Actually it's very farch fetched, it was always stated the force moves through living things only. It's why Grievous can't use force powers despite being trained, why ani was weaker as vader, etc.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:35
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Cnut the Great posted:But that doesn't mean he just copied everything and didn't try to do anything new. I don't see how anyone could argue that Star Wars wasn't something new. Mixing stuff together in a novel new way is doing something new. This mindset is kind of weird because it implies that the people creating these other works are not doing anything new. Frozen is based off a fairy tale but it is as much its own thing as it is an adaptation of the fairy tale and only has the barest similarities to it. Mad Max: Fury Road is a sequel but it is also something new. Cnut the Great posted:This is basically the crux of the issue. Star Wars is now just cannibalizing itself. There's something incestuous about it. This argument would hold more weight if the prequel trilogy wasn't doing basically the same thing, up to and including having forced justifications for having characters appear when they probably shouldn't. (Hi Chewbacca!) Star Wars cannibalizing itself began at least with the prequels which intentionally attempted for thematic resonance by returning to the same characters, planets and visual similarities as the original films. Lucas is in no position to judge about that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 11:38
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There's nothing incestuous about a sequel cannibalizing its own franchise, that's just what sequels are and how they work. There's also nothing weird about lifting the basic story beats wholesale from another movie and dropping in your own characters. It's weird to see Lucas complaining about this stuff, because people used to complain about Star Wars's relationship to Hidden Fortress, and it's the exact same argument. It seems really bizarre to me to use "Everything is a mix of a whole lot of stuff smashed together" as a reason to criticize remakes, sequels, and adaptations, since that is literally what they are, even the bad ones.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:53
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OxMan posted:Actually it's very farch fetched, it was always stated the force moves through living things only. It's why Grievous can't use force powers despite being trained, why ani was weaker as vader, etc. On the other hand, Yoda says the force can be felt in trees, rocks, and ships. Sure, trees are living...but not sentient beings. Rocks and ships are straight up inorganic.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:58
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ImpAtom posted:This mindset is kind of weird because it implies that the people creating these other works are not doing anything new. Frozen is based off a fairy tale but it is as much its own thing as it is an adaptation of the fairy tale and only has the barest similarities to it. Mad Max: Fury Road is a sequel but it is also something new. Of course they're doing something new. The question is if it's as new as it perhaps should or could be. You're insisting on being extremely literal, and missing the forest for the trees as a result. quote:This argument would hold more weight if the prequel trilogy wasn't doing basically the same thing, up to and including having forced justifications for having characters appear when they probably shouldn't. (Hi Chewbacca!) Okay, but that's not all they did. The prequels told very different stories from the originals, and in very different ways. There's nothing wrong with bringing back familiar characters and returning to familiar locations--when it makes sense. It's all part of the same story and setting, after all. (And it made sense to bring back Chewbacca. The battle was taking place on the Wookiee homeworld. Chewbacca is a Wookiee. He's old enough to have been around back then. And the OT tells us pretty much nothing about him aside from the fact that he's a big shaggy dog who hangs out with Han Solo and carries a crossbow. Thanks to Episode III, we now know that he witnessed firsthand the devastation that the Empire visited upon his people. We know he's fought beside Jedi before Luke. We now actually have some small idea of what makes Chewbacca tick. Is that not valuable?) Anyway, I don't think anyone's criticizing Disney for bringing back Han, Leia, and Luke--especially since they also took care to introduce a credible new generation of heroes at the same time. As far as I'm concerned, they handled it in a reasonable way that makes sense. But they also played it safe in a lot of ways--way safer than the prequels ever played it. I don't know how you can dispute that. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 12:00
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Cnut the Great posted:(And it made sense to bring back Chewbacca. The battle was taking place on the Wookiee homeworld. Chewbacca is a Wookiee. He was old enough to have been around back then. And the OT tells us pretty much nothing about him aside from the fact that he's a big shaggy dog who hangs out with Han Solo and carries a crossbow. Thanks to Episode III, we now know that he witnessed firsthand the devastation that the Empire visited upon his people. We know he's fought beside Jedi before Luke. We now actually have some small idea of what makes Chewbacca tick. Is that not valuable?) We never see the empire attack Kashyyyk though...it's the CIS in Episode III. Presumably the whole wookiee enslavement thing still happened, but we don't see it on-screen.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:03
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The robot bad men in the prequels are called CIS? That's... Odd.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:10
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Steve2911 posted:The robot bad men in the prequels are called CIS? That's... Odd. Confederacy of Independent Systems; or the Separatists. Edit: to be clear; the droid army from Episode I is just the Trade Federation's. From before the Separatist movement ever started. But then the Confederacy just went ahead and used the Trade Federation's army as their own.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:10
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Cnut the Great posted:Of course they're doing something new. The question is if it's as new as it perhaps should or could be. You're insisting on being extremely literal, and missing the forest for the trees as a result. No, I'm really not. The "there are too many sequels and adapations" thing comes up often and it's a genuinely hollow and meaningless complaint. It's also a little insulting because it kind of implies that merely being an adaptation means it can't say or do anything new, which is genuinely untrue. Even extremely close adaptations of works are not without thought or creative flare. The Shining is, on paper, extreme similar to its novel version but I think it's pretty degrading to Kubrick's version to imply that it being a closer-but-different adaptation somehow makes it 'lesser.' Schindler's List isn't any less meaningful because it is based off a book. The James Bond films are largely not recognizable as being adaptations and are their own thing. Even if you're talking about superhero films, it's a little weird to go "Well, he just made a Batman movie" as if Burton's Batman and Nolan's Batman are not completely different beasts. When it comes to sequels, is Creed somehow lesser because it is part of the Rocky franchise, despite the fact that it takes advantage of and makes use of the legacy of what came before to tell its story Cnut the Great posted:. But they also played it safe in a lot of ways--way safer than the prequels ever played it. I don't know how you can dispute that. I don't really agree. I think Kylo Ren is a genuinely risk. Doubling down on the idea that your big intimidating scary armored dude is ... well, Kylo Renish means you really risk alienating the audience, especially when you reveal he's Han and Leia's son and then have him murder Han. A poorly-executed usage of this particular twist risks the same sort of outrage you got when Alien 3 killed off Newt and Hicks. If the fans don't accept it you've kneecapped your franchise at the start while also killing off a beloved character which is a really hard thing to do well. Taking the end of Return of the Jedi and bringing it to "Luke failed, all the new Jedi were murdered by Han and Leia's kid who is the new Darth Vader, the heroic trinity are broken old people" is something that very very easily could have backfired on them. I don't think this is a mind-boggling twist but I do think it was an actual one and at least part of why they played safe in other areas. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 12:12
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Something that I really wish we got to see more of is the effect of the Separatist movement outside of the Clone War itself and Sith machinations. The Clone Wars cartoon gave us a couple brief glimpses of the Separatist government, and some of the now-Legends novels poked around there a bit...but it's a huge missed opportunity that all we really get to see of the CIS is the droid army and the Techno Union/Banking Clan/Trade Federation leadership. I think it'd be really interesting to explore how Dooku/Palpatine exploited already existing actual tensions to make the Separatist movement happen.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:18
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Cnut the Great posted:Well, he admits that in the interview. But his point is that those are his inspirations, and everyone has inspirations no matter what it is they're trying to do or make. Everything is a mix of a whole lot of stuff smashed together. "There is no new thing under the sun" and all that. This x1000. Lucas is a man who knows his Joseph Campbell. TFA in turn is the original trilogy mashed up and rearranged (and occasionally subverted), but it still hits all the points of The Hero's Journey, because everything does. It simultaneously "gets these story beats out of the way" for uncharted waters in VIII and IX, while reinforcing the idea that J.J. is as inspired by the original Star Wars as he is Monomyth.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:26
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some more star wars views. warning: views ahead I just watched the first two movies of the original series after seeing TFA. I posted when I saw ANH and didn't really like it, but here are some more specific points now that i've seen both. Empire was all right! New Hope is kind of boring. Here are more specfic opinions. I'll separate them out by movie. A New Hope: - None of the characters stand out at all, except for Han Solo and even then he isn't amazing, he's just kind of interesting - The actual space battles are the worst part of the film. 15 mins of a bunch of nobodies shooting at models from the same cockpit camera angle intercut with explosions. Really lost interest at this. - The ending felt really flat for me, it was just so tidy and simple, and I didn't really feel for the accomplishment of the characters since I didn't think any of them were that good - Darth Vader looks like a wee toy, and he only does one cool thing in the movie (i find your lack of faith disturbing) Empire: - The characters are better written. Luke still blows until the ending, but Han and Leia are better and I'm invested in them succeeding in whatever stupid crap they're trying to do. - Vader is better defined, we get a full look at his lifestyle and some insight into his motivations regarding Luke, since he is his Dad and you begin to build this picture of who Vader is - Luke is still a goober - Something I noticed in the first one, but remembered in this one is, the reason I thought I didn't like Star Wars all these years is cos I thought it was a bunch of stupid CGI poo poo aliens going 'beep da wing wong' and both of these movies have entire segments like that, and those suck - C3PO sucks. I was happy when he got blasted up and sad when Chewbacca repaired him. He's a racist little victorian pill. - The intro to this movie is a lot better than the original, I was interested right away rather than in ANH when it took like 40 minutes for me to care. - The ending is super ambiguous and I like that. It makes it seem like Luke might actually be thinking about turning to the dark side, Han is still hosed in that space coffin. Nothing is really resolved at all. Thinking about em overall, The Force Awakens is better than both of these movies.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:36
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jivjov posted:We never see the empire attack Kashyyyk though...it's the CIS in Episode III. Presumably the whole wookiee enslavement thing still happened, but we don't see it on-screen. They're not technically the Empire yet at that point. But the Order 66-ified clone troopers turn on the Jedi, and we see that the Wookiees (represented by Chewbacca and Tarfful) sided with the Jedi. It's pretty clear that, in doing so, the Wookiees made themselves enemies of the new regime and as a result were forced onto the margins of society, which is where we find Chewbacca in Episode IV, having fallen from his once lofty position as a leader of his people on Kashyyyk. Now he's just first mate to a broke, narcissistic rear end in a top hat with delusions of grandeur on a cramped, two-bit smuggling ship. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 12:52
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real_slime posted:
Luke being goober and the villain being uncool are not problems, or accidents. Do you understand characterisation
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Dec 27, 2015 13:09
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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Millennial
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Dec 27, 2015 13:10
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He doesn't even own a TV.
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Dec 27, 2015 13:12
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