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Kurzon posted:Many of these are not strictly speaking plot holes, and many are poorly argued. That said, I'd like to throw in my biggest issues with the movie. According to wookiepedia, the planet that they turned into the weapon was in a system in the "Unknown Regions," implying that the First Order had info from the Empire that the Republic/Resistance did not (which makes sense). quote:BB8's piece of the map should have been enough to find Luke If the small piece of the map is in uncharted space, then there won't be any reference points to use to put the piece in context. Unless, of course, you could match it to galaxy map designed to fit with the piece.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:35
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Kurzon posted:A plot hole is an illogical event in the movie - things that are impossible or contradictory. Characters being stupid or crazy is not a plot hole. TheMaestroso posted:If the small piece of the map is in uncharted space, then there won't be any reference points to use to put the piece in context. Unless, of course, you could match it to galaxy map designed to fit with the piece. stev fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 16:38
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TheMaestroso posted:If the small piece of the map is in uncharted space, then there won't be any reference points to use to put the piece in context. Unless, of course, you could match it to galaxy map designed to fit with the piece. The issue people are having is that the chunk as depicted is about 10% of the entire galaxy. You shouldn't need a detailed survey to figure out where that is.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:48
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Simple headcanon: the one "piece" of the puzzle was a cryptographic key for the other. Having BB-8 display a physical region of the galaxy is a concession to doing things in a visual medium.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:00
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Wingnut Ninja posted:The issue people are having is that the chunk as depicted is about 10% of the entire galaxy. You shouldn't need a detailed survey to figure out where that is. Still, if it's all in uncharted space you still won't know where to look with just the piece. You would know it's in the uncharted regions, but you'd be blindly searching without more information to contextualize it. Galaxies are BIG. According to wookiepedia, about 100k light years wide. It's not exactly easy or quick to map out all of that.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:01
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Irl your smartphone probably has enough computing power to go over the general galactic map and find which segment of the galaxy corresponds to the chunk of the map BB-8 had. However, this is star wars and the map is a mcguffin.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:04
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How do you know it was 10%? A galaxy is comprised of billions and billions of stars.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:06
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They didn't have much time to pore over the map piece, they only recovered it halfway through the movie and then spent the rest of it occupied with other things. The piece they had may have been enough given some time but luckily R2 was around to fill in the rest.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:16
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TheMaestroso posted:Still, if it's all in uncharted space you still won't know where to look with just the piece. You would know it's in the uncharted regions, but you'd be blindly searching without more information to contextualize it.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:How do you know it was 10%? A galaxy is comprised of billions and billions of stars. Just going off of what it looks like when the two parts are projected together. It's a sizeable chunk of the galaxy. It's not really important, since emanresu tnuocca posted:this is star wars and the map is a mcguffin. I mean, they could have been like "oh it's encrypted but we don't have Luke's private key", but "one chunk of map plus other chunk of map" is easier for the average viewer to understand.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:21
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Given estimates of up to 100 billion star systems in the Milky Way, I'm going to go with "that was only a tiny, tiny chunk of the galaxy." Note also that our galaxy is sort of on the small side, too. It's not at all improbable that they would not have the portion depicted mapped in enough detail to recreate, or that Jedi of generations past altered maps to obscure the location of their first temple, or whatever. The single-sentence explanation offered in the movie works well enough to keep things going.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:31
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I find the quest to find plot holes in TFA to be somewhat odd given how many silly little tidbits and retcons there clearly are in the OT. I mean obviously Lucas never thought about the whole "Luke is Vader's son" thing during the writing of ANH, and Leia being Luke's twin is clearly shoehorned in ROTJ through the exposition of a force ghost. And really hiding Luke on some desolate planet is a good plan but how about changing his last name to something other than Skywalker? Vader obviously had no notion that Leia was his daughter when they first met, he wouldn't have known about Luke either had they just named him anything other than Skywalker... and wouldn't Vader think about looking for his long lost son with his last living relatives? Each of the star wars movies, all seven of them, has very stupid plot details that make very little sense and require a considerable amount of hand waving to explain; it's fortunate though that at least 4 Star Wars movies are really super fun to watch and manage to produce epic and memorable moments even when much of the plot is very silly.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:32
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You're ruining our fun.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:33
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They had all of the puzzle except for one piece. That makes no sense that they couldn't identify the position without it. It would make more sense if they had the piece R2 had, and were like...where the gently caress is this? And then they got the big chunk. In the movie it was like you're looking at a jigsaw puzzle of a kitten and not knowing what it was. "Here's the missing piece. Holy poo poo, it was a kitten this whole time!"
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Dec 27, 2015 17:33
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cosmicjim posted:They had all of the puzzle except for one piece. That makes no sense that they couldn't identify the position without it. It would make more sense if they had the piece R2 had, and were like...where the gently caress is this? And then they got the big chunk. Steve2911 posted:I could give you a map to my house, but unless you knew what street, town or country the house is in it won't be that much use. The piece BB8 had is basically a few circles with unnamed planets on them. Useful.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:36
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Kurzon posted:Many of these are not strictly speaking plot holes, and many are poorly argued. That said, I'd like to throw in my biggest issues with the movie. Actually the resistance did know about it, they've got schematics and poo poo already. Unless you're saying months went by in a scene cut or something while they went and got all that info? The only last minute thing to help their plan was Finn lying about knowing how to get the shields down for the attack. As other people have said, the galaxy is big and a small chunk of map isn't always useful. However, this is pretty clearly a movie convenience without creating some technobabel about why they need more info. People understand maps. Also, try taking a small chunk of a real map in a random part of where you're from and give it to someone else for them to figure out where it is at. They targeted a specific system to blow up, and then JJ likes his shots of planets blowing up. Not really a plot hole, just how the director likes to put that poo poo. It is pretty easy to argue that he shouldn't have, but if you watched star trek then as soon as you saw that going on you should have know it was just JJ. Edit: got about halfway through that list of "plot holes" before giving up because apparently the people who wrote that don't know how to pay attention to a movie. ZypherIM fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 17:39
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in canon maps unknown space is like literally half the galaxy, which that piece fits exactly into so it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to find the planet from reference alone it's been confirmed that luke wasn't on rakata prime so it's a new planet in the middle of uncharted areas, just they say in the movie Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 17:54
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cosmicjim posted:They had all of the puzzle except for one piece. That makes no sense that they couldn't identify the position without it. It would make more sense if they had the piece R2 had, and were like...where the gently caress is this? And then they got the big chunk. R2 went to sleep when Luke left. They found the last piece to the kitten puzzle and then found the rest of the puzzle in the attic, so to speak.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:56
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ZypherIM posted:Actually the resistance did know about it, they've got schematics and poo poo already. Unless you're saying months went by in a scene cut or something while they went and got all that info? The only last minute thing to help their plan was Finn lying about knowing how to get the shields down for the attack. ZypherIM posted:As other people have said, the galaxy is big and a small chunk of map isn't always useful. However, this is pretty clearly a movie convenience without creating some technobabel about why they need more info. People understand maps. Also, try taking a small chunk of a real map in a random part of where you're from and give it to someone else for them to figure out where it is at.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:57
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It was only on the 3rd time I've watched it that I realized Rey slash Kylo across the face. loving 3D makes things dark. I've seen it 3 times in 3D unfortunately. Really wanna see it 2d.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:06
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I'll have to pay attention when I get a chance to re-watch, but I was pretty sure they didn't send the recon after it attacked but just that that was their source of info. Yea they could have made it tiny and gone into how huge the galaxy is and how it'd take them X long to search through all the... Seriously it is a science fantasy movie, you should be able to suspend a tiny bit of belief that they skipped a bunch of boring explanation so that you felt a partial map wasn't a problem.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:13
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ThePutty posted:in canon maps unknown space is like literally half the galaxy, which that piece fits exactly into so it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to find the planet from reference alone This is inconsistent with the film, where Snoke assumes as a matter of course that having any piece of the map will lead them to Skywalker. So we should ignore any stupid bullshit about "uncharted space."
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Dec 27, 2015 18:14
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Kurzon posted:No they didn't. It's explicitly stated in the dialogue that they sent a reconnaissance ship right after Starkiller destroyed the Republic. Is it said that the map is the whole galaxy? I was under the impression that the whole map is only part of a few systems in the unknown regions of the galaxy, wich is why its impossible to figure out where it is with only BB8's piece.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:14
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TFA just hit the 1 billion dollar mark. 544 million of that is in the United States alone.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:17
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Effectronica posted:This is inconsistent with the film, where Snoke assumes as a matter of course that having any piece of the map will lead them to Skywalker. So we should ignore any stupid bullshit about "uncharted space." Also pretty sure that they state the only missing info they have is what Poe gets from the dude at the start?
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Dec 27, 2015 18:22
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Effectronica posted:This is inconsistent with the film, where Snoke assumes as a matter of course that having any piece of the map will lead them to Skywalker. So we should ignore any stupid bullshit about "uncharted space." but they literally say it's in uncharted space in the movie. like, it's an actual line han says when they're talking about the missing portions of the map. the first order already have the map except for that hole, just like the resistance in the end, so they need it just as much for that very reason
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Dec 27, 2015 18:23
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I said come in! posted:TFA just hit the 1 billion dollar mark. 544 million of that is in the United States alone. All that money should have went to homeless veterans. Space Hitler has already won.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:33
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I said come in! posted:TFA just hit the 1 billion dollar mark. 544 million of that is in the United States alone. The golden question: will it make 1 billion domestic?
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Dec 27, 2015 18:41
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Immortan posted:The golden question: will it make 1 billion domestic? Probably not unless it's in theaters for 3 months.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:43
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Immortan posted:The golden question: will it make 1 billion domestic? I just want to see it surpass Avatar which it seems like it will.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:48
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computer parts posted:Probably not unless it's in theaters for 3 months. So that's a Yes, then.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:49
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Map chat: it's probably not entirely consistent with the movie but I kinda figured the full map doesn't just pinpoint Luke's location but also the necessary hyperspace route to get there. I assume that's what those orange lines were anyway
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Dec 27, 2015 19:00
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I said come in! posted:I just want to see it surpass Avatar which it seems like it will. Yeah I don't generally give a poo poo about box office figures, but Avatar being the most successful movie of all time is just poo poo.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:02
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Krowley posted:Map chat: it's probably not entirely consistent with the movie but I kinda figured the full map doesn't just pinpoint Luke's location but also the necessary hyperspace route to get there. That, and BB8's chunk of map was like 20% of a galaxy. How many billions of worlds would have been in that area?
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Dec 27, 2015 19:04
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I said come in! posted:I just want to see it surpass Avatar which it seems like it will. It definitely will domestic. Don't think so worldwide.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:17
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Maybe it's just me but when Rey goes apeshit on Kylo it feels like she's losing herself in the power and letting herself fall far, very aggressive and almost enjoying it. Maybe it wasn't or it was subtle but the next movie would probably check this out.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:23
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I said come in! posted:I just want to see it surpass Avatar which it seems like it will. I don't. gently caress a JJ Abrams and Avatar is better than this flick.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:25
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Oligopsony posted:Simple headcanon: the one "piece" of the puzzle was a cryptographic key for the other. Having BB-8 display a physical region of the galaxy is a concession to doing things in a visual medium.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:42
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Gatts posted:I don't. gently caress a JJ Abrams and Avatar is better than this flick. Dances With Wolves in Space is not better than this movie.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:44
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Biggest movie of all time is still Gone with the Wind though. 
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Dec 27, 2015 19:48
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