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A Fancy Bloke posted:This should be a firing offense and should also bar him from ever serving as a police officer again but lol at the thought he'll face any type of appropriate punishment. I have a friend who works in this rear end in a top hat's department. I'll ask her how everyone is expecting this to go down. At 23 he has no seniority and zero political pull unless his last name is like Hubbell or something. Negligent shooting on Christmas Eve in the largest airport in Iowa... wouldn't surprise me if the Governor came down on his neck too, as much as Brandstad is otherwise a fucker. So yeah, I honestly think there's a chance he's fired for it.
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Dec 25, 2015 08:54
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A Fancy Bloke posted:This should be a firing offense and should also bar him from ever serving as a police officer again but lol at the thought he'll face any type of appropriate punishment. Aw, come on. If you carried a gun as a part of your job, you wouldn't stand in the break room of a crowded airport and yell, "You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me!?" and then try to quickdraw on the fridge? Uncool, bro.
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Dec 25, 2015 10:20
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fosborb posted:I have a friend who works in this rear end in a top hat's department. I'll ask her how everyone is expecting this to go down. But even so, it's not like he won't just go to another department. That's another problem.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:19
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A Fancy Bloke posted:But even so, it's not like he won't just go to another department. That's another problem. Can't say that I have a problem with that; I would have a problem if his position in that new department involved handling a firearm, since he has clearly proven himself too immature to be issued one. The lack of malice plays into my reasoning here -- I take a dimmer view of officers who abuse their fellow citizens getting such second chances, especially since they seem to go right back onto the streets instead of desk jockeying till retirement.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:12
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I'm surprised he didn't try to initially claim that he was stopping a terrorist who totally ran out that door before you got here, guys. I guess you have to be a 20-year veteran of the force before you start lying on impulse like that.
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Dec 25, 2015 19:54
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/neal-browder-fridoon-nehad-shootingquote:A San Diego police officer who shot and killed a man within seconds of exiting his car initially told investigators that he didn't see a weapon but said days later that he recalled thinking the man might be carrying a knife, according to a report released Wednesday. 
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Dec 26, 2015 04:48
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A very solid article from the NYT illustrating visually the problems with police ignoring complaints in CPD: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/15/us/chicago-police-officers-rarely-punished-for-civilian-complaints.html Some quotes from the limited text, but check out the graphic as it helps explain the scale of the issue: quote:6,931 Chicago police officers had at least one allegation of misconduct from 2011 to 2015. Allegations can be filed by a resident or another officer. Officer Jason Van Dyke, who is charged with murder for shooting Laquan McDonald 16 times, had four allegations with known outcomes during this time period.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:20
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chitoryu12 posted:Private sector workers get fired and disciplined for hearsay all the time. Do you believe that police officers deserve more protection than private sector workers currently receive? Ravenfood posted:Well, that's interesting, because a huge chunk of the complaints here are that cops enjoy extrajudicial legal protections that aren't afforded to other citizens. VitalSigns posted:"Ah but is there a statute anywhere that says DA's must get experts to testify on their buddy's behalf when they're unsuccessful in burying the issue from public opinion? No? Okay then it's not a special protection when that happens." Terraplane posted:I want the police to have at least the same accountability as normal people, if not more, yes. I don't think that's such an outrageous position. They already have powers and privileges far beyond that of a normal citizen, why should they have employee rights well above them as well? I think appointed or contracted public workers have a right to due process, which includes discipline being meted out in a timely manner, and protection from public sentiment. You want to change that because you don’t like the outcome in this case, but the result would be awful. What’s that, this public school teacher dresses in drag on the weekends? Is that really who we want teaching our children? He’s lost my trust as an educator. Have you seen his OKCupid profile? Or let’s say an employee is charged with some offense that shocks the conscience, but is found not guilty. Should the public be able to impeach them because they don’t trust them anymore? After all, everyone knows they did it. Also, the SFPD chief is appointed by the mayor, who is elected. In this case, the chief wants to discipline the officers, but can’t because the department failed to act within the statute of limitations. The statute of limitations was set by the state legislature, who are elected. I’m not seeing the lack of democracy here. A Fancy Bloke posted:Yes. Absolutely. I don't think it's insane to believe "police officer" is a career that should be held to the highest standard. When you have the ability to kill someone or deprive them of their civil rights as an agent of the state, with the assistance of lethal weaponry, you should be on your best behavior. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 22:40
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Dead Reckoning posted:I think all workers deserve protection from unsubstantiated complaints. I don’t see the fact that some workers don’t have this protection as a good reason to strip it from others. Why do you? Because they aren't loving up people's lattes, people are getting killed. There's a world of difference and as people have repeatedly said and you've repeatedly ignored, we are not crabs in the same bucket as police. quote:If you think the problem is police receiving undue extralegal deference from prosecutors and superiors, why are you talking about stripping their written labor protections unless your thought process is, “anything that limits the rights of police officers is good?” Even if you admitted that you don’t give a single poo poo about workers’ rights, why do you think that making it easier for chiefs and prosecutors to go after police will make a difference if you think that the problem is that prosecutors and chiefs don’t want to discipline officers? It doesn’t make sense. Because cops have the ability to kill people as an agent of the state. That is different than any other of these jobs you keep trying to equate it to. quote:I think appointed or contracted public workers have a right to due process, which includes discipline being meted out in a timely manner, and protection from public sentiment. You want to change that because you don’t like the outcome in this case, but the result would be awful. What’s that, this public school teacher dresses in drag on the weekends? Is that really who we want teaching our children? He’s lost my trust as an educator. Have you seen his OKCupid profile? Or let’s say an employee is charged with some offense that shocks the conscience, but is found not guilty. Should the public be able to impeach them because they don’t trust them anymore? After all, everyone knows they did it. hey its going to sound like a broken record, but the only lead a teacher slings are in pencils for their student's hands. So yet again, not the same thing. quote:
Can't speak for that person, but as I said before, police should be held to the highest standard. They are in a completely unique position in that they use literal force (not taxes or bullshit) to enforce the will of the state.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:21
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Dead Reckoning posted:Words about worker rights Everything that you're saying is 100% my poo poo but this isn't the place for a debate on workers rights and I think that bringing it up is disingenuous. Police are not normal workers, full stop. Even ignoring the history where police were used as an arm of the state and their moneyed interests to break up strikes (and you shouldn't), that still doesn't account for the fact that even in 2015 being a police officer gives you unique and very important rights in the course of your normal job. Lumping police officers in with everyone else is bullshit because they are not like everyone else, by design.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:55
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http://www.post-gazette.com/news/na...es/201512240211quote:Douglas County sheriff’s deputies got the call around 8:20 p.m. Monday. The security guard for a mobile home park in Douglasville, Ga., said he had just been held at gunpoint for 45 minutes as he made his evening rounds. Security guard and Navy veteran peacefully disarms his son, while unarmed, and then gets shot and killed by the jumpy brave cops who show up. Then they managed to capture the son without killing him anyway, demonstrating that they killed the man for no reason.
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Dec 27, 2015 04:54
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ToastyPotato posted:http://www.post-gazette.com/news/na...es/201512240211 I love how immediately and ruthlessly the authorities blame the dead father for his own death. OF COOOOOURSE the dad who talked down his own son into disarming would then want to pick up the gun and point it at the officers for.... some reason. Right. Christ, what incompetent, cowardly, fucklechucks.
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Dec 27, 2015 05:10
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Why would the DoJ go after anyone for burning down a guy's house? They fuckin' love burning peoples' houses down. IIRC they still have the high score for teargas-based arson/murder. (76 women and children, FBI/ATF dream team #1!) I'd ask if they at least have fire trucks ready in case since those canisters seem to ignite unlike this Arizona rear end in a top hat but I'm not sure I want to know the answer. I at least assume they gear up BEFORE they they show up instead of in the guys front lawn. I'm sure that guys car they rolled their play tank over was when the parking brakes "failed" was paid for right? One of the neighbors interviewed thought it was some sort of prank, that they were going to go medevil on him with paintballs since he didn't see any sheriff or other law enforcement logos and them getting dressed up in front of the house because that kind of breaks the whole idea of a surprise raid on a gun runner. Wasn't till they started firing tear gas into every window that he realized it was real. Because of course warning neighbors you're about to storm a house full of illegal weapons is something you may want to warn them about. buttcoinbrony posted:Everything that you're saying is 100% my poo poo but this isn't the place for a debate on workers rights and I think that bringing it up is disingenuous. Police are not normal workers, full stop. Even ignoring the history where police were used as an arm of the state and their moneyed interests to break up strikes (and you shouldn't), that still doesn't account for the fact that even in 2015 being a police officer gives you unique and very important rights in the course of your normal job. Lumping police officers in with everyone else is bullshit because they are not like everyone else, by design. Yeah, at least compare jobs that carry heavier scrutiny and penalties. A doctor will have the DEA pawing through every script he ever wrote if they even think he writes too many C2 prescriptions. That's not even a 'rule' that can be followed and supposedly can be started by an anonymous tip, no signed/sworn statements! A couple months of patients in severe pain and a higher number of painkiller prescriptions is all it takes. Again second hand from sister in law but it's why doctors are so reluctant to give out opiates even if the patient needs them. There is no set number you hit that triggers in investigation, and during which you can't write any and the rules for taking away your privilege are apparently almost completely arbitrary. Doctors and especially surgeons have to carry massive insurance policies because of the high risk in something going wrong and being sued, or making a severe enough mistake (like killing someone!) and getting your license suspended or revoked. gently caress up bad enough and you're no longer a doctor. Murder a kid or a guy holding a toy in a store or a dude walking down the street with a pen and your department and justice system bend over backwards to keep you out of even losing your job much less jail far too often. Toasticle fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 05:12
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Chicago police managed to get in one more murdered young black man before the end of the year. Bonus: A neighbor, a grandmother was hit, accidentally police say, and killed as well. According to the local story quote:His father called police and then called his downstairs neighbor to open the door when officers arrived. It is not clear whether Jones had even finished opening up the door for them when officers fired at LeGrier who was charging down the stairs still carrying the bat. quote:In a statement released Saturday offering scant detail, Chicago police said they “were confronted by a combative subject” that resulted in “the discharging of the officer’s weapon.” Polygynous fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 00:04
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Ahh there is that lovely passive voice again.
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Dec 28, 2015 00:41
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There's a lawsuit in California that may be the beginning of the end of the cash bail systemquote:Crystal Patterson didn't have the cash or assets to post $150,000 bail and get out of jail after her arrest for assault in October. It's blindingly obvious what the system is, but I won't be the least bit shocked if all the settled law on the matter just so happens to gently caress over the poor real hard. Strange how that happens so often.
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Dec 28, 2015 07:37
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PostNouveau posted:There's a lawsuit in California that may be the beginning of the end of the cash bail system That article is really bad and it's not clear what exactly they're challenging. Bail bondsman for example, aren't legal in all states, but if they're challenging the concept of bail in general I don't understand what they could possibly be basing it on. Not only is the concept of bail explicitly mentioned in the constitution, it's settled law that you don't have a right to receive it at all.
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Dec 28, 2015 08:37
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Jarmak posted:That article is really bad and it's not clear what exactly they're challenging.
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Dec 28, 2015 10:42
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A Fancy Bloke posted:Because they aren't loving up people's lattes, people are getting killed. Good point. No more labor protections for publicly employed medical workers. After all, they're not just making french fries, their jobs involve matters of life and death. Also, say goodbye to your union air traffic controllers. People get killed when you screw up. I understand the thought process that goes into your position, it's just that it's a horrible one. Stripping cops of labor rights is not going to "fix" the system, however you imagine that looks like.
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Dec 28, 2015 13:39
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None of those people have legal authority over other regular people up to and including legally shooting them to death. Feel free to argue the point on its own merits rather than making false equivalences.
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Dec 28, 2015 13:59
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And none of them essentially have self-governance over their own improprieities to the massive scale that police do.
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Dec 28, 2015 14:06
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And beyond that allies in the criminal justice system that will manipulate it to exonerate them if it even gets that far.
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Dec 28, 2015 14:10
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ToastyPotato posted:Ahh there is that lovely passive voice again. Did they mean to make it sound like something completely different? "I'm so sorry, that's never happened to me before." "Don't worry... studies show... 3 in 10 officers have problems with... premature discharge." *dies sexually unsatisfied*
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Dec 28, 2015 14:34
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The Insect Court posted:Good point. No more labor protections for publicly employed medical workers. After all, they're not just making french fries, their jobs involve matters of life and death. Neither of these are equivalent because they are not wielding weapons, nor are they employed as agents of the state to enforce the will of said state. It's not even close to the same thing. That being said, it turns out that malpractice is a thing that is actually heavily investigated and punished (often with the revocation of a medical license if found guilty) and if your negligence crashes a plane while air-traffic controlling you'll likely lose your job also, so what is your loving point anyhow? quote:I understand the thought process that goes into your position, it's just that it's a horrible one. Stripping cops of labor rights is not going to "fix" the system, however you imagine that looks like. I'd argue that being employed as a police officer should be a privilege, not a right, due to the (once again) totally unique power they wield.
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Dec 28, 2015 15:15
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It looks like there is surveillance footage of the double police shooting in Chicago. The bad news is the police have possession of it and we all know how the CPD handles surveillance video. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...-12-27-22-39-04quote:Adam also said police took the hard drive of a home-security camera from across the street, but it was unknown if it or other cameras in the neighborhood captured the shootings.
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Dec 28, 2015 15:16
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Cops are kinda like Vampires but instead of just not being visible on photographs or video, the sections where they would be there just mysteriously disappear entirely.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 15:27
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Man if only there were an organization that investigated the police that wasn't the police.
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Dec 28, 2015 15:31
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Jarmak posted:That article is really bad and it's not clear what exactly they're challenging. Bail bondsman for example, aren't legal in all states, but if they're challenging the concept of bail in general I don't understand what they could possibly be basing it on. Not only is the concept of bail explicitly mentioned in the constitution, it's settled law that you don't have a right to receive it at all. Bail as it is now is absurd and obviously a way to keep poor people locked up while exempting anyone with resources from the same hardship. If cash bail is necessary, it should be a percentage of assets so a person's means don't enter into it. That really should be the case for all criminal penalties, fines included. The "justice" system we have now with regard to payments to courts grinds the already poor deeper into poverty without impacting those who have the ability to pay.
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Dec 28, 2015 15:59
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The Insect Court posted:Good point. No more labor protections for publicly employed medical workers. After all, they're not just making french fries, their jobs involve matters of life and death.
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Dec 28, 2015 16:10
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This idea that cops that cops should't be investigated or disaplined because of complaints is simple to understand once you realize that the people arguing it, as always, simply don't want or expect cops to be held to any professional standards. Because in jobs that have standards, getting complaints means you're doing a bad job, and labor protections do not mean that you're protected for doing a bad job.
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Dec 28, 2015 16:58
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PostNouveau posted:There's a lawsuit in California that may be the beginning of the end of the cash bail system Doesn't the bond company get their bond back when the charges are dropped? So the only money that should be owed to them is the agreed interest, right?
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Dec 28, 2015 17:04
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The Locator posted:Doesn't the bond company get their bond back when the charges are dropped? So the only money that should be owed to them is the agreed interest, right? Nope. You are paying a bondsman a fee of 8-10% of your bond amount for them to put up the other 90%. Edit: I don't know specifics in her case but in Florida if you have enough assets for the 10% (but not the 100% otherwise you wouldn't need a bondsman) like say your car you can give them the title as assurance you'll pay the money. You still have to pay it which is where the interest is probably from but until she coughs up the entire 15k thats probably the interest charges. Toasticle fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 17:36
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Dr Pepper posted:This idea that cops that cops should't be investigated or disaplined because of complaints is simple to understand once you realize that the people arguing it, as always, simply don't want or expect cops to be held to any professional standards. If you're a customer service agent and a few people fill out a survey negatively, you can be sure that at the very least your management will look into what's going on and give you some remedial training. The idea that an employer would have to go out and get a sworn affidavit from the people complaining just to investigate the issue is ridiculous, and has nothing to do with workers' rights. It just insulates bad employees from any sort of scrutiny. Even more hilarious, imagine the response if customer service agents threatened and intimidated people trying to leave bad reviews like cops do.
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Dec 28, 2015 19:46
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Even more hilarious, imagine the response if customer service agents threatened and intimidated people trying to leave bad reviews like cops do. I take it you have never tried to cancel a telecom service.
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Dec 28, 2015 19:51
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Cuyahoga County Prosecutor is going to make an announcement at 2 pm EST regarding the grand jury investigation into the murder of Tamir Rice. The family has said they don't expect an indictment. A livestream of the announcement can be found here http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/12/cuyahoga_county_prosecutor_to.html
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Dec 28, 2015 19:52
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Murderion posted:Did they mean to make it sound like something completely different? Why do you think so many of their wives leave them? 
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Dec 28, 2015 19:54
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Jarmak posted:That article is really bad and it's not clear what exactly they're challenging. Bail bondsman for example, aren't legal in all states, but if they're challenging the concept of bail in general I don't understand what they could possibly be basing it on. Not only is the concept of bail explicitly mentioned in the constitution, it's settled law that you don't have a right to receive it at all. I'm curious why you included the fact that bail is explicitly mentioned in the constitution, but decided not to explain that the mention is this: "Excessive bail shall not be required ..." It seems like the second part of the fact might be key to understanding the significance of the first, in the context of a lawsuit about excessive bail. e: in any case what constitutes excessive bail in these terms is already settled case law, the Supreme Court in Shack v Boyle found that any imposition beyond what is reasonably certain to compel the accused to appear is not constitutional. With respect to the case at question, habitually imposing bail in the amount of ten times what any person accused can afford on the assumption that they can just go to the bondsman anyway (and forfeit all their money to him whether guilty or not) doesn't pass that test. Schenck v. U.S. fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 20:03
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BloodFeastIslandMan posted:Cuyahoga County Prosecutor is going to make an announcement at 2 pm EST regarding the grand jury investigation into the murder of Tamir Rice. The family has said they don't expect an indictment. A livestream of the announcement can be found here http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/12/cuyahoga_county_prosecutor_to.html no charges, quelle surprise
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Dec 28, 2015 20:05
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"indisputable that Tamir was drawing his gun" 
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Dec 28, 2015 20:07
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:"indisputable that Tamir was drawing his gun" He's playing defense attorney, like the DAs always seem to. But police get no special privilege!!
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Dec 28, 2015 20:10
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