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les enfants Terrific!
Dec 12, 2008

SlicerDicer posted:

Ask yourself this as a Human Being.
If you ate something and it was known to give rampaging diarrhea would you continue to eat it?

I promise you thousands of people with lactose intolerance weigh out "well, I can deal with the shits for this little bit of milk" all the time and countless other human beings have gotten horrendously sick from chronic diarrhea because they refuse to stop eating/drinking actual poison or even literally just inserting it straight into their anus so this is probably the dumbest possible question because humans are dumb and terrible.

e: For a long time giving yourself a tapeworm, on purpose, was a diet trend. Colonics and coffee enemas are a current health fad. There are books that advise you use bleach suppositories to cure autism. These are all recommended by doctors who went to college at one point. Do not overestimate human ability to do stupid, literal poo poo.

les enfants Terrific! fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Dec 10, 2015

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SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Braki posted:

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about anymore but as I said earlier, that's great that your dog is doing well on this diet. A diet that consists solely of knucklebones and chicken leg quarters though is unlikely to be balanced, so again, I hope you're adding something else in there.

I'm going to address that quote by saying basically... I disagree. I didn't really understand the value of dental radiographs until I actually took a dental rotation during vet school with a veterinary dentist and learned firsthand that what you see on the surface doesn't reflect what occurs below the gumline. In fact, our veterinary dentist had to bring in her own dog for a dental due to a tooth fracture. The dog's teeth looked immaculate. After they took rads, they discovered the dog needed 7 extractions. I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find a vet who specializes in dentistry who will agree with your friend's statement. I don't think you're going to believe a single word I say though, you're pretty entrenched in your own stuff, so this is probably the last I'm going to say on this.

Like the ones who wanted to root around in my dogs mouth? pulling teeth that bones took out naturally? Yeah thats sane.

Or the dentists who go crown crazy on humans? Thats justified.. I went to dentist outside USA said my teeth were fine, dentist here wanted to do 3 crowns. I find this to be morally questionable.

You mention this word balanced, what do you advise for balanced? Explain balance and balanced? If you know so much about balanced then help me help my dog?

Atasnaya Vaflja posted:

I promise you thousands of people with lactose intolerance weigh out "well, I can deal with the shits for this little bit of milk" all the time and countless other human beings have gotten horrendously sick from chronic diarrhea because they refuse to stop eating/drinking actual poison or even literally just inserting it straight into their anus so this is probably the dumbest possible question because humans are dumb and terrible.

e: For a long time giving yourself a tapeworm, on purpose, was a diet trend. Colonics and coffee enemas are a current health fad. There are books that advise you use bleach suppositories to cure autism. These are all recommended by doctors who went to college at one point. Do not overestimate human ability to do stupid, literal poo poo.

Well yes there is that, however that is why I take a lot of things with healthy dose of skepticism. Simply look at linear regression done by earl butz and see human feeding chart is hosed. We still use that to this day? WTF?

If we cannot even take a objective look at human feeding without for profit companies trying to stifle things. How in the hell am I going to trust deregulated dog food industry?

SlicerDicer fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 10, 2015

les enfants Terrific!
Dec 12, 2008

SlicerDicer posted:

Like the ones who wanted to root around in my dogs mouth? pulling teeth that bones took out naturally? Yeah thats sane.

So it's better to have a dog's tooth torn out in a painful, monitored manner just because it's natural? I'm sorry, I'd rather my dog not risk splintering his own tooth into his gums and suffering infection just because it's "natural." I'd rather my dog be in a controlled environment where they can be sure that the tooth won't abscess when removed, where the dog won't be in undue pain, etc. etc.

Natural doesn't always mean better.


SlicerDicer posted:

Well yes there is that, however that is why I take a lot of things with healthy dose of skepticism. Simply look at linear regression done by earl butz and see human feeding chart is hosed. We still use that to this day? WTF?

If we cannot even take a objective look at human feeding without for profit companies trying to stifle things. How in the hell am I going to trust deregulated dog food industry?

That wasn't your original point and you know it. Your point was that humans wouldn't do that to themselves, why would they do that to their dogs??

You honestly sound like the kind of quack who believes in homeopathy and I would never, ever take any health advice from you and if your opinion is that you'd rather an animal break their teeth apart than have them extracted then you really honestly shouldn't own any because that's neglectful. Point blank.

LITERALLY A BIRD
Sep 27, 2008

I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

In the interest of keeping this chicken wings/AAFCO conspiracy debate productive, please include links to reputable sources in any further posts related to this derail. Thanks!

SlicerDicer
Oct 31, 2010

PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Atasnaya Vaflja posted:

You honestly sound like the kind of quack who believes in homeopathy and I would never, ever take any health advice from you and if your opinion is that you'd rather an animal break their teeth apart than have them extracted then you really honestly shouldn't own any because that's neglectful. Point blank.

If you wish I will post photos of the erupted teeth that were improper, that they were puppy teeth. That they did not come out in normal time frame so the puppy canine damaged the adult canine. By the time it was detected what was going on the damage was done. The teeth took a extra 2 months to come out naturally beyond normal. Removing puppy teeth via surgery was excessive, in fact the vet I was going to at the time was grossly overcharging was my point and creating problems that would not exist. Thanks for being judge, jury and executioner on me being a owner. No I do not believe in homeopathy, I do not believe in things not rooted in science.

When I had him neutered I had him get a gastropexy and he was fully examined and in good health.

Does this clarify? Do you still consider me to be neglectful?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

feld
Feb 11, 2008

Out of nowhere its.....

Feldman

Atasnaya Vaflja posted:

I promise you thousands of people with lactose intolerance weigh out "well, I can deal with the shits for this little bit of milk" all the time and countless other human beings have gotten horrendously sick from chronic diarrhea because they refuse to stop eating/drinking actual poison or even literally just inserting it straight into their anus so this is probably the dumbest possible question because humans are dumb and terrible.

e: For a long time giving yourself a tapeworm, on purpose, was a diet trend. Colonics and coffee enemas are a current health fad. There are books that advise you use bleach suppositories to cure autism. These are all recommended by doctors who went to college at one point. Do not overestimate human ability to do stupid, literal poo poo.

This argument is bogus. While many animals will kill themselves over pleasure, it's unethical to continue subjecting your pet to something that is clearly harmful. And your edit is doing nothing but reinforcing what we're saying: there is a lot of documentation and research out there that is bogus. Refusing to consider that pet nutrition is one of these areas is ridiculous.

One crisp morning last November I woke up to quite an unpleasant surprise. My dog had not been eating much for a few days, but that was "normal" ever since he was a puppy. He would eat only when he wanted to, and that was sometimes every few days. His bowel movements were irregular, which considering his eating pattern it seemed "normal" as well. My vet said his eating habits were "fine" as long as he wasn't starving himself. Being a Schnauzer and having it well documented that they can have sensitive bowels, I was also accustomed to the occasional diarrhea and emergency requests to go outside. It was just something I "accepted", never mind the obvious discomfort he had. Changing foods (Evo, Acana/Orijen, Nature's Variety) did not matter. Lowering protein "because it might be too rich" did not matter. He was still bouncing between constipation and diarrhea and even my vet felt this was "normal", but I failed to recognize this was what was happening. I used to get so angry with him when he would beg me to go outside and then not produce because I thought he was just annoying me to take him out. Little did I know he was suffering, and Giant Schnauzers have an incredible pain tolerance: they will not whine, whimper, or show weakness unless it's very serious. You have to constantly monitor their every move and study them for injuries.

Here I present you my body of research:



Yes, there are two amazing specimens about the size of my forearm in there. Incredible feat of engineering. I was laughing so hard while crying and dry heaving so forgot to get a better camera.

And now:



Regular, healthy, well-formed.



Additionally, his mouth went from "really needs a dental... NOW" to this within only three weeks of the diet change:



I only wish I had a "before" picture, but his molars looked like he had peanut brittle stuck to them. It was pretty terrible, but putting dogs under anesthesia is risky and we spent a fortune on a world-class non-invasive procedure to prevent him from dying from a heart issue (PDA) when he was a puppy. (Very few places in the USA are equipped to do non-invasive. Luckily, the local vet school specialized in it.) Complications from the anesthesia for a stupid dental cleaning causing his death? That would have been devastating. (Reminder: This does happen!)

So feel free to slap a [citation needed] sticker on everything we say, but there is not a significant peer-reviewed independent body of research out there that damns RMB feeding. Instead you will find Purina, Mars, Hills, Iams, or Del Monte behind every bit of anti-raw research. And as a special bonus they send their own vets to teach nutrition courses at Vet schools. The conflict of interest is here staggering, but you're welcome to avert your gaze and carry on with what you're doing.

However, if you want suggestions on the best way to start a RMB diet do not hesitate to contact me. I'd gladly help you and your dog transition.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015
lmao u posted ur dogs turds on the internet

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."

feld posted:

Just wanted to note that I've been feeding my dogs raw for the last year. They had not been to the vet in 11 months. When my vet asked for an update about their diet he was y vet was confused and concerned about feeding raw and surprised at the results:

"Did you get their teeth cleaned? How did they get so clean?"
"Do you make it yourself?"
"Is this the pre-made raw stuff from a pet store?"
"Do they get vegetables and vitamin supplements?"

Also my 7yo beagle has always had worrying results from blood tests -- usually liver enzyme issues. It would bounce from slightly elevated to REALLY elevated and concerning. Changing dog food would sometimes improve it a little, sometimes a lot, but it was never normalized.

I let him do another blood test because my dog has not been on his suggested medication for nearly 18 months.

Results?

Total bilirubin: normal
Cholesterol: normal
Albumin: normal
Blood glucose: normal
GGT: normal

He was gobsmacked.


If you're curious, their diet is mainly chicken leg quarters (thigh and leg attached) and pork neck bones. Occasionally they get fish. No vegetables or other filler and no offal (organ meat) as wild dogs don't eat that either -- they consume meat and bone except small prey they may eat whole (rabbits, mice, etc). Keep in mind that dogs are not humans: they have not lost the ability to manufacture their own vitamin needs. Cats, however, need taurine or they will die.

Dog breath? gone.
Teeth? Shiny white and clean!
Anal gland issues? gone.
Constitution? normal (giant schnauzers have digestion issues -- well documented, but he's been perfect since going raw)
Water intake? normal. no more gorging on water after feeding, and they stay well hydrated as muscle tissue is 70% water
Energy levels? Fantastic! I've never seen so much energy in them, and my 7yo beagle acts like a puppy again!


Cost: cheap, but you have to know where to source your food. Buy in bulk (40lb cases, or 10lb bags) and look for deals. Look where a restaurant would buy. You'd be surprised how much overhead there is on meat! I routinely get chicken leg quarters for $0.39/lb - $0.79/lb and pork neck bones from $0.89/lb - $1.09/lb. I feed ~3lbs a day. I fast them once or twice a week. This is normal and healthy. They don't need food every day. Fasting is hugely beneficial for the immune system.

I used to feed Acana/Orijen back when I could get it around $75 and the dogs would go through a bag in 3 weeks, so roughly $100/mo. Dog dental treats ~$10/mo. Dental cleanings were ~$300/dog and once a year, so that's about $50/mo averaged over the year. Add that up and it's about $160/mo. Even at $1.09/lb I'm still under $100/mo, but I'm usually on the low end at $40-$50. Feeding raw is not expensive.

tl;dr processed dog food is garbage. "let food be thy medicine"

I'm not going to argue on the internet about this and try to make you all converts or you'll quickly dry up my sources of raw food. But if you're skeptical, consider this scenario:

"My that's a nice pet snake you have there. It would be a lot healthier if you fed it this new biologically complete snake kibble."

Yeah, sounds like a load of horse poo poo doesn't it?

:wave: bye for now and keep posting cute dog and cat pictures

I'm looking forward to your peer reviewed paper in a respectable journal.

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015
the other day i gave my pit bulls bones and some guts from the goat i slaughtered and they pooped half bone, half kibble turds

i then collected the turds in biowaste baggies and dissected them with forceps and a scalpel, photographing them from multiple angles, weighing them, tasting them, and testing their response to exposure to various temperature extremes

conclusion??????????: im gay

paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


Wait, are you seriously feeding a raw diet that's just muscle and bone, no organs?

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."

AsYouWish posted:

the other day i gave my pit bulls bones and some guts from the goat i slaughtered and they pooped half bone, half kibble turds

i then collected the turds in biowaste baggies and dissected them with forceps and a scalpel, photographing them from multiple angles, weighing them, tasting them, and testing their response to exposure to various temperature extremes

conclusion??????????: im gay

This is more intelligible and about as scientific as the earlier turd post. I'm going to photograph my dog making GBS threads too, and we can be poo poo photo buds.

Sock Weasel
Sep 13, 2010

SlicerDicer posted:

If you wish I will post photos of the erupted teeth that were improper, that they were puppy teeth. That they did not come out in normal time frame so the puppy canine damaged the adult canine. By the time it was detected what was going on the damage was done. The teeth took a extra 2 months to come out naturally beyond normal.

Wait, the puppy tooth was in there for two months after diagnosis or..? If I'm reading this right then a stuck puppy tooth was causing problems enough to damage the adult tooth but

SlicerDicer posted:

Removing puppy teeth via surgery was excessive, in fact the vet I was going to at the time was grossly overcharging was my point and creating problems that would not exist.

Okay. :downs:

les enfants Terrific!
Dec 12, 2008

feld posted:

[Picture of a something that looks like raw ground up sausage stuck on a cheap rawhide which feld claims came out of a dog's rear end in a top hat]

Regular, healthy, well-formed.

Lying is a sin.

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

In the interest of keeping this chicken wings/AAFCO conspiracy debate productive, please include links to reputable sources in any further posts related to this derail. Thanks!

Sources:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Lying
http://www.bible-topics.com/Lying.html

les enfants Terrific! fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Dec 12, 2015

AsYouWish
Nov 28, 2015
ive fed raw for years and raise my own livestock to raw feed my dogs and literally even i think ur fkkn batshit hth

les enfants Terrific!
Dec 12, 2008
Serious post: That dog's teeth are busted up and those are some pale gums. That isn't a healthy mouth by any means.

Your dog needs offal of some kind because muscle on its own isn't enough to sustain it. The bones you're giving it is destroying its teeth; They're chipped and worn down because of the diet you think is working miracles for dentition.

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm

Also, by ending your post with "your vets are sponsored by Big Kibble, maaaan" makes you sound paranoid and weird.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003575/
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm373757.htm
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/FAQs/Pages/Raw-Pet-Foods-and-the-AVMA-Policy-FAQ.aspx

You're more likely to poison or upset your animal nutritionally with a raw diet if you don't know what you're doing than you are if you feed kibble, because kibbles are premade with recipes and formulas that at least resemble something approaching balance. If you know what you're doing? It can be great! If you're going in blind and just going "well, heh, wild animals eat like this!" without really understanding how nutritional needs work you can screw up your animal.

les enfants Terrific! fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Dec 12, 2015

Terraplane
Aug 16, 2007

And when I mash down on your little starter, then your spark plug will give me fire.

lambeth posted:

One of my cats was recently diagnosed with crystals. However, he seems to be allergic to something in both the Hill's C/D and Royal Canin SO, as they both make him scratch like crazy. My vet now wants to switch him to Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Hydrolyzed Protein dry food. She said the protein in it is soy protein, and while I guess that's good for ruling out what he's allergic to, is it ok to feed a cat soy protein? I thought cats only got nutrients from meat protein. Please help me, Internet, I can't find anything on it besides crazy cat ladies going on about raw food diets.

A bit late, but one of my cats has been on the HP food for about 5 years now and he's done well. He's playful, energetic, smart (as cats go), has a healthy coat, and doesn't poo poo bioweapons anymore so it's been a good thing for him.

Is Solid Gold Katz n Flocken still a good food? I've got another cat who isn't really into his current food and I'd like to find him something that he likes more that is also good for him. This one is fairly young, trim, and doesn't have any allergies that I know about so anything should work, so long as it's tasty and healthy.

Dogwood Fleet
Sep 14, 2013

Petey posted:

What's the resolution / latest thinking on Kirkland brand dog foods, especially for puppies / dogs you are new to? I've read every page of this thread and the relevant DogAdvisor page, but it's still not clear to me if it is considered a high/moderate/low quality food, or what people's experiences have been.

Looking at it because it's less expensive, but also because I already buy all my own food from Costco, so I could do grocery shopping for my (not-yet-gotten-but-still-in-planning-stages) dog at the same time as me.

I buy Kirkland dog food and my dog is pretty good at pooping. I can post pics if you like.


edit: Kirkland dry dog food is pretty good as far as dog food goes. One of the wet food types hits five stars on Dog Food Advisor. It's in a tier where I wouldn't worry about it.

Dogwood Fleet fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Dec 13, 2015

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe
I'm about to start transitioning my cat onto higher quality food (got suckered into Science Diet because I didn't do enough research, and just discovered this thread). Part of what I might try to do is to get her onto entirely canned versus a mixture of canned and dry food. I didn't see anything in the OP about that transition; does anyone have suggestions about how to manage that successfully, or should I just be tapering off her supply of kibble gradually?

e: Also, I was originally thinking about getting Wellness brand food, but after reading the last couple pages of the thread I'm just not sure what to do. It seems like a lot of the "Excellent" brands from the OP have been discontinued/bought out/lowered in quality in the last little while. I don't want to get the cat started on something that might decline or disappear in the next couple of years. Seems like Chicken Soup brand might still be okay? Any advice on brands would also be appreciated.

Soaring Kestrel fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Dec 28, 2015

lambeth
Aug 31, 2009
You can taper off by adding a little more of the new food and a little less of the old food each day over a week or two. I usually start my cats off with a few pieces separately to make sure they like it and then start tapering the next day.

Solid Gold seems to still be good quality food, though not all stores sell it.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

lambeth posted:

You can taper off by adding a little more of the new food and a little less of the old food each day over a week or two. I usually start my cats off with a few pieces separately to make sure they like it and then start tapering the next day.

Solid Gold seems to still be good quality food, though not all stores sell it.

Thanks much. There's so much information about switching from dry to dry, or from wet to wet, but not as much from one to the other. Very appreciated.

I'll see if I can get my hands on some Solid Gold. If nothing else it looks like PetFlow has it, but I'll stop by my local store this week and see if they carry it so I can make sure she'll eat it. :)

e: Oh, hey, they have a store locator. That's handy!

Soaring Kestrel fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 29, 2015

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Flying Leatherman posted:

I'm about to start transitioning my cat onto higher quality food (got suckered into Science Diet because I didn't do enough research, and just discovered this thread). Part of what I might try to do is to get her onto entirely canned versus a mixture of canned and dry food. I didn't see anything in the OP about that transition; does anyone have suggestions about how to manage that successfully, or should I just be tapering off her supply of kibble gradually?

e: Also, I was originally thinking about getting Wellness brand food, but after reading the last couple pages of the thread I'm just not sure what to do. It seems like a lot of the "Excellent" brands from the OP have been discontinued/bought out/lowered in quality in the last little while. I don't want to get the cat started on something that might decline or disappear in the next couple of years. Seems like Chicken Soup brand might still be okay? Any advice on brands would also be appreciated.

I've tried multiple times to get my cats on canned diets, so maybe this will help you.

Some cats are stupidly picky about texture, and there are lots of different textures to be found in canned cat food. If you suspect your cat might be picky, start with little cans and get a variety of different textures. (Other cats are awesome and will devour anything that resembles wet food, so maybe you won't have any trouble.)

Some foods may have a detrimental effect on your cat long after you've switched to it. I tried a Tiki Cat flavor for about 8 months, and the cat who was on that food had to have 2 dentals with multiple extractions during that time. Her teeth were disintegrating. We thought it was just a genetic problem, but I've since switched her off of Tiki Cat and she hasn't had to have an extraction in over a year now. My vet wondered if it was from the food, so I tried contacting Tiki Cat to ask about Vitamin D levels in that flavor, and they replied with the % of the contents that's allowed to be their added Vitamin D. AAFCO standards for that vitamin are in IU/kg, not a %. I asked them for the IU/kg. They didn't know the IU/kg of Vitamin D in their food, and couldn't find it out. They only know the %. (That's not typical - every other pet food company I asked was able to provide the IU/kg by phone/email, if it wasn't already on their website.) So make sure you monitor how your cat responds to any food change over time.

Canned food even from the same brand might change without warning. I had a cat on Wellness Core for a few months. One day, he abruptly refused to eat it. I contacted Wellness, and they informed me that their protein sources change seasonally based on availability. Even if you get used to a brand/flavor, it may not be the same in 3 months, and the cat may refuse to eat it then.

One of the vets here said something that has stuck with me:
The best food for a cat is the one it does well on.

Reik
Mar 8, 2004

Flying Leatherman posted:

Thanks much. There's so much information about switching from dry to dry, or from wet to wet, but not as much from one to the other. Very appreciated.

I'll see if I can get my hands on some Solid Gold. If nothing else it looks like PetFlow has it, but I'll stop by my local store this week and see if they carry it so I can make sure she'll eat it. :)

e: Oh, hey, they have a store locator. That's handy!

If they have the chain Pet Supplies Plus in your area they seem to have most of the top brands of cat food.

IdeoPhanthus
Oct 22, 2004

So how up to date is the list in the OP now? Is it still at all reliable? I just got caught up on the thread (the last 120 posts or so), and I'm seeing complaints about some of the top dry cat food brands. We've been feeding Wellness Core original for years now, but I recently got a sample size bag of Natures Variety Instinct raw boost and the cats seemed to love it. Between the past few pages having complaints about Wellness, and the list being out of date, and Amazon having a coupon plus subscribe & save for Nature's Variety (and it's a few bucks cheaper)...I'm wondering if I should switch (because of possible Wellness issues) or just keep them on it. What are the current opinions on both dry foods?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

lambeth posted:

Solid Gold seems to still be good quality food, though not all stores sell it.

Wow.

Got my cat some Solid Gold wet food (they didn't have any small trial bags for the kibble, unfortunately - maybe next time), and she absolutely destroyed it.

So there's a vote for that, I guess.

Reik
Mar 8, 2004
I've been looking in to cat food a lot lately since one of our cats came back with high creatinine levels, there's a really good chart for wet foods here:

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

As far as dry foods good, if they have to be on dry food, just look at the ingredients. Are the first 8 or so ingredients anything other than an animal? If so, you might want to switch. As far as their guaranteed analysis, you want to keep a good balance of fat and protein. When a cat eats their prey they eat pretty much the whole thing, fat included. Fat is also much easier to digest for cats.

Flying Leatherman posted:

Wow.

Got my cat some Solid Gold wet food (they didn't have any small trial bags for the kibble, unfortunately - maybe next time), and she absolutely destroyed it.

So there's a vote for that, I guess.

The only thing negative I've found about Solid Gold is that it has carrageenan in it and a lot of people are saying that's bad for your cat.

Nevileen
Jan 4, 2008
switched my dog from a weird dog food brand (I...forgot the name of it but it was not the greatest) to Fromm Adult Gold, and she absolutely loves it. Only problem is that she's gaining a bit more weight than she normally would (probably because she's actually eating it instead of half-heartedly munching at it once in a while) and I'm worried I'm feeding her too much. Her ideal weight is supposed to be around 20-21 pounds, and I've been feeding her about a cup a day. Should I lower it slightly (maybe to 3/4ths?)? I talked to the vet about it, and she said that since my dog is neutered, she can tend to gain weight a little more easily. Or do I just have to take her for longer walks to compensate?

I will say this is my first dog, so sorry if this seems a little stupid. Oh, and before you ask - she would NOT eat the small breed variety. It was loving baffling to me but no, adult or bust.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Feeding less is fine, walking more is also fine. My 80 lb dog gets 2 cups of fromm gold and maintains his weight well on it. Different dogs have different metabolisms so the guidelines are really just guesses.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008

by Shine
Kitten question (two, roughly 19 weeks, 4.5 and 5lbs):
Am I crazy for mixing water into wet food? It's just a bit, but the cats are eating only wet food now (currently trader joe's chicken, turkey and rice dinner). I transitioned them off of the mixed wet/dry diet they were on before I adopted them last week, and they have not missed the dry food one bit, or complained at all about the water being mixed in.
Also: am I feeding them enough/too much? They are currently getting about a can each per day (spread over 4 feeding times), which should be about 180 calories.

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.

Nevileen posted:

switched my dog from a weird dog food brand (I...forgot the name of it but it was not the greatest) to Fromm Adult Gold, and she absolutely loves it. Only problem is that she's gaining a bit more weight than she normally would (probably because she's actually eating it instead of half-heartedly munching at it once in a while) and I'm worried I'm feeding her too much. Her ideal weight is supposed to be around 20-21 pounds, and I've been feeding her about a cup a day. Should I lower it slightly (maybe to 3/4ths?)? I talked to the vet about it, and she said that since my dog is neutered, she can tend to gain weight a little more easily. Or do I just have to take her for longer walks to compensate?

I will say this is my first dog, so sorry if this seems a little stupid. Oh, and before you ask - she would NOT eat the small breed variety. It was loving baffling to me but no, adult or bust.

Figuring out how much to feed is really a trial and error type thing. My 40-45 lb dogs are on Acana and only get a cup a day and one of them could stand to lose a few pounds so now he gets 2/3rds of a cup a day. With the higher quality foods like Fromm you don't need to feed as much since there's less filler crap in them, so I'd recommend tapering down till she's at a good weight then hold steady on however much is enough to maintain without gaining/losing any weight.

The blue bunny
May 29, 2013

365 Nog Hogger posted:

Kitten question (two, roughly 19 weeks, 4.5 and 5lbs):
Am I crazy for mixing water into wet food? It's just a bit, but the cats are eating only wet food now (currently trader joe's chicken, turkey and rice dinner). I transitioned them off of the mixed wet/dry diet they were on before I adopted them last week, and they have not missed the dry food one bit, or complained at all about the water being mixed in.
Also: am I feeding them enough/too much? They are currently getting about a can each per day (spread over 4 feeding times), which should be about 180 calories.

I mix extra water into my cats wet food.

180 calories might be a little low for a kitten. From memory they need 500 because of their crazy energy and rapid growth. When mine was a kitten, my vet said feed as much as she will eat. i started to restrict food at about 7mths when she was starting to grow side ways.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
I adopted a cat yesterday from my shelter, and they were feeding her dry Science Diet :barf: I obviously want to get her off of that poo poo ASAP, preferably to a good wet food. I know you're supposed to introduce new food slowly however, so for now I'm keeping the food she's familiar with until she's a bit more comfortable with her new home.

My question is: does the stress for getting new food compound if I'm switching not just from dry to wet, but also high to low carb/filler? Can I slowly transition her straight from the dry SD to wet Blue Buffalo, for example, or should I first go from bad to good dry food, then from good dry to good wet?

The blue bunny
May 29, 2013

Sydin posted:

I adopted a cat yesterday from my shelter, and they were feeding her dry Science Diet :barf: I obviously want to get her off of that poo poo ASAP, preferably to a good wet food. I know you're supposed to introduce new food slowly however, so for now I'm keeping the food she's familiar with until she's a bit more comfortable with her new home.

My question is: does the stress for getting new food compound if I'm switching not just from dry to wet, but also high to low carb/filler? Can I slowly transition her straight from the dry SD to wet Blue Buffalo, for example, or should I first go from bad to good dry food, then from good dry to good wet?

The transition will depend on the cat, give her a bit and see how she acts eg kibble as a treat. I personally would just give the cat some wet food. For my cat i would give her half a can of wet food and see if she eats it. My cat is a fussy eater and if she doesn't touch a food the first time there is no way in hell is she going to ever eat it. I would recommend changing one food at a time so you can isolate which is causing issues in the litter box, vomiting etc.


Find a pet food store that allows you to return and get a refund on opened dry food that your cat doesn't like. The slow transition is about feeding a food the cat that it is protesting against eating and preventing kitty upset tummy.

ohnobugs
Feb 22, 2003


Sydin posted:

I adopted a cat yesterday from my shelter, and they were feeding her dry Science Diet :barf: I obviously want to get her off of that poo poo ASAP, preferably to a good wet food. I know you're supposed to introduce new food slowly however, so for now I'm keeping the food she's familiar with until she's a bit more comfortable with her new home.

My question is: does the stress for getting new food compound if I'm switching not just from dry to wet, but also high to low carb/filler? Can I slowly transition her straight from the dry SD to wet Blue Buffalo, for example, or should I first go from bad to good dry food, then from good dry to good wet?

I think you might be overthinking it a little. Basically you'd be going through the introducing new food period twice if you introduce the cat to a new dry food and then to a new wet food. Unless you plan on feeding both just go ahead and make a nice, slow transition to the wet food you want to feed.

Masey
Aug 22, 2006
Pancakes.
One of our cats, Flash, recently developed a vomiting fit and skin irritability/hair loss. So after working with our veterinarian on some food trials and other things we officially got the go ahead to get chicken/poultry-free wet food for our cats. So far so good, we switched them all kind of successfully to Wellness Whitefish, Salmon, & Herring formula which contains no chicken products as far as we are aware. However the cats don't seem nearly as enthused about this food as they had their previous brand, Merrick. So can anyone recommend me chicken free (we've been avoiding all birds and eggs to be on the safe side) high-protein canned foods for my cats so we don't have to switch to a prescription formula? Our veterinarian strictly told us he'd rather us find a non PX food for a few reasons.

GoodBee
Apr 8, 2004


Try adding a little water and microwaving the food for a little. That seems to make it smell worse and cats seem to like that more.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

The blue bunny posted:

The transition will depend on the cat, give her a bit and see how she acts eg kibble as a treat. I personally would just give the cat some wet food. For my cat i would give her half a can of wet food and see if she eats it. My cat is a fussy eater and if she doesn't touch a food the first time there is no way in hell is she going to ever eat it. I would recommend changing one food at a time so you can isolate which is causing issues in the litter box, vomiting etc.


Find a pet food store that allows you to return and get a refund on opened dry food that your cat doesn't like. The slow transition is about feeding a food the cat that it is protesting against eating and preventing kitty upset tummy.

AuntBuck posted:

I think you might be overthinking it a little. Basically you'd be going through the introducing new food period twice if you introduce the cat to a new dry food and then to a new wet food. Unless you plan on feeding both just go ahead and make a nice, slow transition to the wet food you want to feed.

I probably am overthinking it. :shobon: Thanks - I'll go out and buy a few different types of canned and see what I can coax her into eating.

GoodBee
Apr 8, 2004


Sydin posted:

I probably am overthinking it. :shobon: Thanks - I'll go out and buy a few different types of canned and see what I can coax her into eating.

It might not be a problem. My cats eat pretty much anything ever.

Reik
Mar 8, 2004

Masey posted:

One of our cats, Flash, recently developed a vomiting fit and skin irritability/hair loss. So after working with our veterinarian on some food trials and other things we officially got the go ahead to get chicken/poultry-free wet food for our cats. So far so good, we switched them all kind of successfully to Wellness Whitefish, Salmon, & Herring formula which contains no chicken products as far as we are aware. However the cats don't seem nearly as enthused about this food as they had their previous brand, Merrick. So can anyone recommend me chicken free (we've been avoiding all birds and eggs to be on the safe side) high-protein canned foods for my cats so we don't have to switch to a prescription formula? Our veterinarian strictly told us he'd rather us find a non PX food for a few reasons.

Tiki cat and Weruva have a lot of good seafood flavors. We feed our cats "Cats in the Kitchen" brand "La Isla Bonita" flavor. Its one of the lines by Weruva. It's lower in phosphorous and it's about 55/45 protein/fat with good quality proteins.

Tiki Cat Gourmet Carnivore 2 flavors: Tilapia and Seabass. The standard Tiki Cat line can be very high protein with low fat so I try to avoid it.

Weruva Truluxe 4 flavors: Kawa Booty, Honor Roll, Pretty In Pink, and Meow Me a River.

Cats in the Kitchen 2 flavors: Kitty Gone Wild, La Isla Bonita.

You can double check those but none of them appear to have any chicken or poultry with good macro nutrient breakdowns.

Reik fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Feb 4, 2016

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
Well, good news: she loving loves the wet Blue Buffalo. She wanted to eat it so bad she'd barely let me get it out of the can and into her bowl before going at it. :stare:

It's certainly funny having a cat that couldn't care less about catnip or tuna, but will do literal backflips for anything chicken flavored.

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Irritated Goat
Mar 12, 2005

This post is pathetic.
Ok. Super dumb but whatever. Our little 10 yr old kitty eats 1 half of wet a day and dry food out all the time. We're considering moving to 2 wet a day because he's kinda whiny. What's a decent meal plan we can do for him?



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