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Myrddin_Emrys posted:I don't think it was ever specifically said that 12 was the last Doctor she would know. In fact in the library, I'm sure she mentions that Tennant was much younger looking than the Doctor (she has just spent 24 years with) she knows who gave her the scredriver, and forgive me but Smith is younger than Tennant by my last reckoning. She goes on about the eyes. Younger eyes.
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Dec 27, 2015 18:56
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CommonShore posted:She goes on about the eyes. Younger eyes. Both Tennant and Smith have younger eyes than Capildis wrinkly, watery rheumy eyes, I think we are getting somewhere.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:02
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I finally got the time to finish up the first War Doctor set, and I was much more impressed with parts 2 and 3 than I was with the first one. Hurt gets to do his Captain Grumpy thing a lot more, and he genuinely starts to feel like "the man who couldn't be The Doctor". Hopefully they really explore that some more in the other 3 sets. I will say that the Last Great Time War doesn't feel too...wibbly although the Dalek's planet busting superweapon plan is pretty neat. I definitely hope that the next sets do a bit more with the concept of a war across time and space.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:05
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Both Tennant and Smith have younger eyes than Capildis wrinkly, watery rheumy eyes, I think we are getting somewhere. It came up a few times that Eleven's age didn't come through unless you looked him right in the eye, then it was clear that he was centuries/millenia/how ever much he's admitting to this series old.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:23
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Organza Quiz posted:It's just occurred to me that since this aired at 5.15 pm in the UK, that part (including the doctor's comment about not doing that in a restaurant) probably happened right when most people watching were eating their dinner. Nah most people have Christmas dinner about 2-3 PM
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Dec 27, 2015 21:01
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So.. What? The Doctor and River lived on the planet together for 24 years?
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Dec 27, 2015 21:22
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Carbon dioxide posted:I got someone on the other end of the line wondering if you secretly hate McGann, because he's suspiciously almost missing from all three gifs. Wasn't the original scene like that? Yeah it's how it was edited (I love McGann) - it cuts out just as 8 comes into frame for a reaction from the Doctor, then starts up again from McGann but quickly moves down. It's actually kind of cool, because the division between "Classic" and "Revival" Doctors explicitly both include McGann  DeafNote posted:merry christmas kids! The Ghost of Robert Holmes is satisfied for yet another year.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:39
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The_Doctor posted:So.. What? The Doctor and River lived on the planet together for 24 years? Or 5 minutes before he gets bored and fucks off like he usually does. Buggered off -Happily.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:54
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 It’s Christmas Day on a remote human colony and the Doctor is hiding from Christmas Carols and Comedy Antlers. But when a crashed spaceship calls upon the Doctor for help, he finds himself recruited into River Song’s squad and hurled into a fast and frantic chase across the galaxy. King Hydroflax is furious, and his giant Robot bodyguard is out-of-control and coming for them all! Will Nardole survive? And when will River Song work out who the Doctor is? All will be revealed on a starliner full of galactic super-villains and a destination the Doctor has been avoiding for a very long time... Peter Capaldi is the Doctor in The Husbands of River Song X X X X X Cast The Doctor - Peter Capaldi River Song - Alex Kingston Nardole - Matt Lucas King Hydroflax - Greg Davies Ramone - Phillip Rhys Flemming - Rowan Polonski Scratch - Robert Curtis Concierge - Anthony Cozens Alphonse - Chris Lew Kum Hoi Receptionist - Nicolle Smartt King Hydroflax's Body - Liam Cook Voice of Hydroflax - Nonso Anozie Written by: Steven Moffat Directed by: Douglas Mackinnon Broadcast: 25 December 2015 Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWwi_q2k9Ag Poster by: Stuart Manning Gifs by: J-Ru X X X X X  Christmas specials should be fun and relatively light-hearted, and The Husbands of River Song succeeds on both levels. A quick moving story about a criminal caper comes complete with tons of banter, a series of amusing moments, and antagonists that manage to unnerve while being amusing and unique. And perhaps most importantly, this story helps to close the narrative arc (possibly?) on an important and beloved character. It's Christmas 5343 AD, on the planet of Mendorax Dellora, and there's an intergalactic warlord in desperate need of a surgeon. But what he gets is the Doctor, who isn't in the mood to put up with an homicidal, genocidal maniac with a killer headache. The cause of the headache, one of the most priceless diamonds in the entire universe that became embedded in his brain, doesn't even raise one of the Doctor's attack eyebrows. What does get his attention however is the doting and attentative wife of said warlord – one River Song. The Doctor is happy to see River, but she isn't happy to see him. In fact, she doesn't recognize him at all...  In many ways, the 2014 special Last Christmas felt like the true finale for Series 8. It tied directly into that season by closing the book on Danny Pink while reigniting the Twelve/Clara dynamic which appeared to have come to an end due to the events of Death in Heaven. In contrast, The Husbands of River Song is a stand alone episode. There is no mention of Clara, Missy, Davros, the Daleks, or the Time Lords. There's no huge galaxy destroying threat or any danger of the Web of Time unraveling or any chrono-shenanigans (outside of River). It's just the Doctor and River in one of their oft-mentioned off-screen adventures that the viewers are finally allowed to take part in. According to Steven Moffat himself, there was a very good chance that The Husbands of River Song would have been his last episode of Doctor Who as showrunner, changing his mind at the last minute to come back for another season. Considering the near perfection of Heaven Sent and an incredibly solid follow-up with Hell Bent, an episode such as The Husbands of River Song could have been seen as a silly way to go out. But to me it would have been an appropriate story to end Moffat's tenure as it encompasses the best of Moffat's writing and storytelling abilities while also touching upon one of the most discussed aspects of his time as showrunner. To me, Moffat has a gift when it comes to writing dialogue. His early 00's sitcom Coupling struck a chord with me because of the interactions between the characters in terms of dialogue and monologue while also managing to convey a sense of camaraderie between them. It was also incredibly funny. The Husbands of River Song follows in that vein, showcasing the relationship between the Doctor and an unsuspecting River through both banter and their reactions to each other. From the very beginning of the episode, the comedy of errors begins with the Doctor annoyed that River doesn't recognize him and River ticked off that the Doctor keeps insisting they know each other. No one does annoyed like Peter Capaldi and very few people do “will you please be quiet” like Alex Kingston, and the more the Doctor tries to drop a hint to River that he IS the Doctor, River casually blows him off or interrupts him with something much more important and the cycle continues. There are so many little moments such as River casually mentioning she steals the TARDIS all the time and the Doctor never knows about it...  ...or the Doctor and River trying to rescue the other while the space liner is crashing...   ...or by instantly going back to their feisty flirting as soon as River realizes who she's standing next to... quote:
Or an absolutely perfect response by the Doctor when River warns him that the inside of the TARDIS is a bit less...snug than he would think. Click here for the whole thing in gif form. Moffat also adds a unique villain to the proceedings. While Lord Hydroflax (played to hammy perfection by Greg Davies) may not have long-term staying power, the idea of a suit of sentient power armor who casually swaps out one head for another whenever a direct link to information is...required. It's a horrifying concept when one things about it, but Moffat plays it for laughs. The space liner that provides the setting for the second half of the episode could have come out of a Douglas Adams novel – a high-price luxury cruise where the price of admission is several billion credits and confirmed galactic atrocities, including the buyers for the Halassi Androvar diamond...  Moffat's script combined with the directing of Douglas Mackinnon (Time Heist, Flatline) makes for an enjoyable episode that serves as a fine Christmas special that contains a few memorable moments, but there's nothing to set it as a classic when compared to Last Christmas or A Christmas Carol...though there's also nothing that makes it as dreadful as Voyage of the Damned. It's not until the last 15 minutes that The Husbands of River Song drops the emotional hammer with its attempt to close the story arc for River.  One of the most discussed aspects of Steven Moffat's time as showrunner, and really as his time as a television writer, has been how he writes and handles woman. Moffat has introduced several female characters to the Who canon – River Song, Amy Pond, Clara Oswald. And there have also been the supporting characters in the form of Missy, Ashildr/Me, and Jenny/Lady Vastra. On one hand, these characters have been strong, independent, capable of solving problems and saving the day on their own without a man's help, and were never afraid to call the Doctor out when the situation demanded it. But on the other hand, it always seem liked the entire lives of these characters revolved around the Doctor. I don't mean in the “well, they're in the same episode sharing the same plot” kind of way, but in the way that the Doctor was the center of their entire lives. Missy is eternally obsessed with him and seems to have taken it up a notch in her female regeneration (no male ego my tuchus). Amy Pond spent her entire childhood and a good bit of her adulthood waiting for him to show up. Jenny and Lady Vastra seems to have all kind of off-screen adventures of their own (get on it, Big Finish!) but the only time they're been independent of the Doctor was when they just happened to be investigating the same utopian community in The Crimson Horror, and even then their time on screen seemed to say “we're just placeholders until Matt Smith shows up.” Now there's River, who was conceived on the TARDIS itself, born and raised to kill the Doctor, and has associated with him often enough that the mere mention of her name is enough to make a Dalek ask for mercy. River is a character who has seen it all, done it all, is smart and clever enough to almost give the Doctor a run for his money, and has had tons of off-screen adventures both with and without the Doctor. The Husbands of River Song could have been a chance to see one of her solo adventures. More importantly, it would have been a chance to see River WITHOUT the Doctor. And there are several moments where we see just that, where we see just how ruthless River can be. She's willing to simply scoop out Hydroflax's brain because she's “married to the diamond,” and she's awfully nonplussed with how another husband of hers, Ramon, ends up with his heads on Hydroflax's robot body, but it doesn't matter since she erased his memories of their marriage because he was getting annoying. And she casually steals the TARDIS out from the Doctor's nose, implying she's done so time and before, go so far as to call him “The Damsel” since he always needs rescuing even though he's no one special.  This all puts River's relationship with the Doctor in a whole new light. For all the flirting and banter, it could be possible that River was using the Doctor the entire time and she was good enough for him to fall for it. This could have been a very interesting plot thread to follow, as it also could have meant River recognized the Twelfth Doctor and was just stringing him along the entire time. But then, when she's run out of options and Hydroflax's body is demanding the Doctor... quote:
...the truth comes out. Now, it could not be the truth. The whole thing also could have been River overplaying her hand on purpose and the Doctor finally catching her off guard. But it still means that no matter what happens, the Doctor is always on River's mind and she, dare I say, pines for him. This would be fine within the confines of a single episode or a series with River as a full-time companion. But for a character who we've been told is known across the entire universe and has done all these awesome things...it's classic Moffat – a strong female character whose existence revolves around a male figure in some capacity. But it IS a very powerful and emotional moment, with Capaldi putting so much emotion into two small, quiet words, and from there the Doctor and River show kicks in to great effect, all the way to the very end of the episode where much like Christmas everything it tied together into a neat little bow. The last few minutes are the heart of the episode because of the planet the pair are standing on. River knows its name, Darillium, and knows its where she spends her final night with the Doctor. It's where the Doctor gives her the sonic screwdriver she'll use to save him in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead. And it's where... quote:
  Random Thoughts - A sonic trowel. Now I've seen nearly everything. - There was a picture of the War Doctor in the wallet. I've never wanted a War Doctor/River story until that very moment. - Stuart Manning has once again done a GREAT job with the posters this year. They're available for prints at his website. - Hello Professor Song...   Cobi's Synopsis – A fun and light-hearted episode with an emotional coda, The Husbands of River Song makes great use of Peter Capaldi and Alex Kingston with a caper-style story that wraps a ribbon around the story arc for River Song.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:18
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I still don't know if season 9 is better or worse than season 8. Or season 5.
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Dec 27, 2015 23:52
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Hey echoplez, is the diner a fully built set or an actual location used when in America? Because someone needs to their hand swatted for not turning on the granita machine. 
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Dec 27, 2015 23:53
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:I don't think it was ever specifically said that 12 was the last Doctor she would know. In fact in the library, I'm sure she mentions that Tennant was much younger looking than the Doctor (she has just spent 24 years with) she knows who gave her the scredriver, and forgive me but Smith is younger than Tennant by my last reckoning. She says "Your eyes! You're younger than I've ever seen you." It could be taken several ways, but most of those we now know are not true. Tennant is a little older than Smith and doesn't look younger. With the upcoming Big Finish series she gets to see even earlier versions, probably before her death, so Tennant isn't the youngest she's ever seen the Doctor full stop. The only way the statement is still true is if that is the youngest she's ever seen 10. 10 may have seen her a few more times off screen before regenerating into 11, and this is the first time 10 has seen her, so he's young for 10. This also seems to be the only time she met Donna. So perhaps the other times she met 10 were after Donna's loss, an event that made 10 sad and 'older' looking. It's still a bit shaky. Unless 10 had a lot of offscreen adventures he didn't live very long or age very much at all. He burned through 2 regenerations in just a few years. But it seems to be the best explanation for her reaction that still works. Of course at the time Moffett probably planned for 10 to have more on-screen adventures with River. It just didn't work out that way.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:51
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From what I remember Moffat was expecting to take over while Tennant was still around and was going to start with him crashing in Amy's garden looking agitated and flying away or something, and then coming back looking normal and it would be eventually revealed that the initial crash was right before his regeneration. The next time River shows up is in Time Of Angels and it doesn't seem like it's just their second meeting then, so I figure Moffat's just been having their action figures snogging this whole time and occasionally gets around to writing it down.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:56
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Rhyno posted:Hey echoplez, is the diner a fully built set or an actual location used when in America? The diner is a faux American diner in Cardiff, about a couple of hundred feet from the Doctor Who studio. http://www.eddiesdiner.co.uk/
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Dec 28, 2015 02:58
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The_Doctor posted:The diner is a faux American diner in Cardiff, about a couple of hundred feet from the Doctor Who studio. Neat!
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Dec 28, 2015 03:07
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"24 years." I'm... I'm not crying! It's just the wind 
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Dec 28, 2015 03:41
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jivjov posted:I finally got the time to finish up the first War Doctor set, and I was much more impressed with parts 2 and 3 than I was with the first one. Hurt gets to do his Captain Grumpy thing a lot more, and he genuinely starts to feel like "the man who couldn't be The Doctor". Hopefully they really explore that some more in the other 3 sets. I will say that the Last Great Time War doesn't feel too...wibbly although the Dalek's planet busting superweapon plan is pretty neat. I definitely hope that the next sets do a bit more with the concept of a war across time and space. I'm most of the way through part 1 myself. It's my first Big Finish audio, and so far it's a lot of (very minor spoiler) napping and drinking juice.. So I'm glad to hear things are going to pick up.
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Dec 28, 2015 03:51
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The street set from the start of this episode is the same as in Face the Raven (and a few other episodes) isn't it?
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Dec 28, 2015 04:18
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The street set from the start of this episode is the same as in Face the Raven (and a few other episodes) isn't it? Yeah, just redressed somewhat. This isn't the first time (or last) where sets are reused. ABC's Shonda Rhimes shows and ALl the CW super hero shows use the same sets.
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Dec 28, 2015 04:49
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I really lied The Husbands of River Song and personal I find my enjoyment of any given Mat Smith episode is directly related to how little it has to do with River. Defiantly my favorite Dr.Who Christmas special; I really liked how we finally got to see the Doctor knowing more than River and I think Capaldi has better chemistry with Kingston than she did with Tennant or Smith.
side_burned fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 05:26
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NowonSA posted:I'm most of the way through part 1 myself. It's my first Big Finish audio, and so far it's a lot of (very minor spoiler) napping and drinking juice.. So I'm glad to hear things are going to pick up. Yeah; part 1 leads with an awful lot of setup, sadly.
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Dec 28, 2015 06:02
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The reason the Doctor has "young eyes" in Silence in the Library is because it's the only time he meets River where he doesn't know how she dies. It's not to do with the literal age of the actor's eyesockets. It's restated later that this is a (tragic) metaphor for friendship - "one day I'll meet him and he won't know who I am" etc. Caring for someone means confronting their mortality.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:20
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Finished listening to the rest of the River Song audio set! I'm not going to say anything in any detail but I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case anyway (it's only appropriate). Like I said before, the first two are serviceable little adventures where River's basically written as a female Doctor. I'm still not quite sure where they fall in her timeline, from what she says about her life it feels like it's relatively early but characters call her "Professor" so it can't be that early. Maybe just after getting out of Storm Cage? I guess it doesn't make too much difference. Anyway, the third episode is uh... it's not quite as much misery porn as Lidster goes for but it's not far off. It's an interesting concept but it's also just kind of depressing to listen to. Luckily, the fourth episode is actually really great, not just because it has Paul McGann in it but that certainly doesn't hurt. It's the first episode where it really feels like they're taking advantage of the differences between River's approach to problems and the Doctor's, and I liked their solution to the fact that Eight isn't meant to meet River yet. There's also a moment I really liked where River is especially pissed off that the bad guys are interfering with Eight in particular since he's the nicest one out of them. It draws together the other episodes properly, which makes them better in retrospect. It's kind of a pity that these were written before the Christmas special but released after it, because it says explicitly at the end of the set that their view of what River gets up to is mostly running around solving mysteries and fighting evil, i.e. exactly what the Doctor does. Hopefully if they do any more they can take into account the fact that she's actually still a thief and a smuggler as well as making the occasional foray into fighting evil, because personally I find that much more interesting.
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Dec 28, 2015 12:13
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The street set from the start of this episode is the same as in Face the Raven (and a few other episodes) isn't it? It's only been used for Face The Raven (and ep 12 if you count the flashbacks), and was redressed with new signs/shopfronts for Xmas. I'm glad we reused it - even if it was obvious - as it was a very nice set. It's a same they didn't see many of the signs, I did a lot of it in the old railway sign style (with some Thunderbirds thrown in, why not). Den of Geek seem to think that one of the shop fronts was named after Jamie Mathieson, but it wasn't, I named it after myself. Interestingly, no-one seems to have picked up on the much more blatant redresses we've done over this series, but I suppose that means we hid it ok.
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Dec 28, 2015 12:34
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echoplex posted:Interestingly, no-one seems to have picked up on the much more blatant redresses we've done over this series, but I suppose that means we hid it ok. Do we get a hint? 
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Dec 28, 2015 14:03
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I thought it was amusing that River suggested that she frequently borrows the TARDIS without the Doctor knowing, returning it one second after she takes it.
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Dec 28, 2015 14:07
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Rhyno posted:Yeah, just redressed somewhat. This isn't the first time (or last) where sets are reused. ABC's Shonda Rhimes shows and ALl the CW super hero shows use the same sets. I remember when I visited Los Angeles I went on a studio tour where the guide was saying, "Now, this set was x's house in Pretty Little Liars, and it also y's house in True Blood!"
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Dec 28, 2015 14:24
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Organza Quiz posted:Finished listening to the rest of the River Song audio set! I'm not going to say anything in any detail but I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case anyway (it's only appropriate). She does say in the christmas special that she is 200 years old. Probably the first 50-60 of that are from before she regenerated into River, assuming she took the long way round to get from america 1969 to meet up with young Amy and Rory. Even allowing for years in Stormcage, that still leaves a hell of a long time for her to have solo adventures. Plenty of time for both good guy missions and naughty capers. We don't really know how naughty she was being in the christmas special. Yeah, she was willing to murder her husband, but he was a genocidal maniac: the Doctor might not be willing to kill him but you don't need to be a bad guy to want to see him dead. Then we see her hanging out on the murder cruise, which looks very bad, except she is there then specifically because she knows it is going to crash. So she is selling the diamond to people who are presumably real bastards, and planning to use crash to protect herself. She probably also planned to leave with both the money and the diamond in the crash which isn't fair play, but again she's dealing with genocidal bastards. Her plan gets derailed by a date with the Doctor, so we never find out what her goal was. What did she plan to do with 100 billion credits? That sounds like quite a lot. After selling the diamond to people who were about to die in a meteor crash, what did she plan to do with it? Maybe she meant to return it to those nice people she talked about earlier, she was just milking for some villain cash first. Part of the charm of the story is we're dropped into the middle with no explanation, and River is lying constantly so we never quite learn what is going on.
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Dec 28, 2015 15:02
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Organza Quiz posted:[spoiler] What was it?
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Dec 28, 2015 17:39
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Argue posted:What was it?
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Dec 28, 2015 19:02
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I just saw the episode and hopefully someone can help me if I missed it. Why can't River understand he's the Doctor? He straight up tells her?
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Dec 28, 2015 19:40
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She just doesn't believe him. She knows the number of regenerations he should have (hence the wallet) and his face isn't any of them.
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Dec 28, 2015 19:41
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CobiWann posted:She just doesn't believe him. She knows the number of regenerations he should have (hence the wallet) and his face isn't any of them. Yeah. They actually explain this, although it's kind of a throwaway line: "Even he has his limits." River doesn't know it's possible to get a new set of regenerations because she doesn't know anything about the actual Time Lords, so when she sees a guy not in her wallet, she doesn't even consider the possibility it's the Doctor.
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Dec 28, 2015 20:26
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River was good here because it's actually a River episode instead of a random episode where River also shows up for no reason. (Okay I know that also describes Let's Kill Hitler but still.)
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Dec 29, 2015 02:27
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Just watched the Christmas special. A bit silly, but it is a Christmas special. I think it was good enough.
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Dec 29, 2015 02:38
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Got around to it at last and wow. Moffat has increasingly come to rely on the quality of his actors and done very character-focused pieces. I think that pays off here. All the things that have been minorly irritating about River's character (her knowing everything and the odd way Season 6's conflicts were resolved and so on) are set aside and I get why she keeps coming back, because Alex Kingston is that drat wonderful. And seeing her interact with Capaldi (who is becoming my favorite Doctor ever despite my previous firm resolution that they're all equally wonderful chaps) was just heartmelting. All the plot business IMO was ancilliary to that last scene of them together and it was SOOOOO drat good and so adorable. It is the perfect finale for them as characters and I am glad for it.
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Dec 29, 2015 04:43
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just saw it the exploding head part and the peeling head open part give me high hopes for the upcoming Peter Jackson episode
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Dec 29, 2015 05:00
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echoplex posted:It's only been used for Face The Raven (and ep 12 if you count the flashbacks), and was redressed with new signs/shopfronts for Xmas. I'm glad we reused it - even if it was obvious - as it was a very nice set. It's a same they didn't see many of the signs, I did a lot of it in the old railway sign style (with some Thunderbirds thrown in, why not). Den of Geek seem to think that one of the shop fronts was named after Jamie Mathieson, but it wasn't, I named it after myself. To be fair, as baldly obvious as it was to me, it was the only redress I noticed all season... I'm also going to go on the record here and say with chemistry that good between Kingston and Capaldi, I'd be down with River coming back as much as Missy. 
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Dec 29, 2015 06:29
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Astroman posted:I'm also going to go on the record here and say with chemistry that good between Kingston and Capaldi, I'd be down with River coming back as much as Missy. Imagine if The Moment was River Song instead of Rose.
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Dec 29, 2015 06:36
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computer parts posted:Imagine if The Moment was River Song instead of Rose. Good money says she was unavailable or else she'd have been in the 50th.
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Dec 29, 2015 06:37
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