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Dungeon Ecology posted:man, this Support X mechanic seems so but didn't you love bolster??? 
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Dec 29, 2015 23:50
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Dungeon Ecology posted:man, this Support X mechanic seems so Dollars to donuts it said "distribute <x> counters" at some point, then got rebalanced to this.
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Dec 29, 2015 23:52
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Dungeon Ecology posted:man, this Support X mechanic seems so Don't you remember how exciting Bolster was? At least it's note Fateful Hour.
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Dec 29, 2015 23:54
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Booklegger posted:So, from what I now know, there's like 3 cards in magic's history which actually set power and toughness in such a way that pump spells help. Sworn Defender, Shape Stealer, and Zegana.
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Dec 29, 2015 23:59
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So Support and Rally are both good in that they all seem worthless, until EVERYTHING in a deck has it. It will be a nightmare in limited, and if it is WG, the token/efficient creature combo...
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Dec 30, 2015 00:08
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/106384-Former-Wizards-of-the-Coast-Employee-Charged-With-Stealing-Rare-Magic-Cards I can't stop laughing at this.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:09
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Lancelot posted:Shape Stealer (http://magiccards.info/sok/en/55.html) isn't a copy effect, I didn't say it was. I was saying it wasn't one.  I was suggesting that the rarity of such non-copy effects is noteworthy.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:11
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Travel Preparations' new oracle text: Support 2 Flashback 1W There's something about giving abilities really boring keywords that makes the ability feel so much worse.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:12
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Do you have a source saying it's going to get erratad, or are you just being hyperbolic?
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Dec 30, 2015 00:15
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Foreskin Problems posted:Do you have a source saying it's going to get erratad, or are you just being hyperbolic? They don't errata things unless the change is evergreen, so he's just loving around because its functionally the same thing. as a 1GW spell that does: "Support 3." does sound like crap.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:30
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Support seems fine. It's not ultra exciting but it's a fairly clean and simple way to reward you for having multiple creatures out. All we've seen from it so far are "OK common" and "Sandsteppe Mastodon 2.0".
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Dec 30, 2015 00:40
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Sickening posted:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/106384-Former-Wizards-of-the-Coast-Employee-Charged-With-Stealing-Rare-Magic-Cards If I remember correctly there was another one of these recently where someone had stolen around 400 promo LotV's from Wizards proper and was trying to sell 5 to 10 of them at a time at a card shop in Renton, Wizards got involved and they busted the guy via eBay where he had listed 25 of them for sale at once.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:41
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Throwaway, "this could have been done without naming it" abilities aren't for us cynical, jaded types. They're for new and inexperienced players to understand that a subsection of cards in the set all do the same thing.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:43
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BJPaskoff posted:Throwaway, "this could have been done without naming it" abilities aren't for us cynical, jaded types. They're for new and inexperienced players to understand that a subsection of cards in the set all do the same thing. Some sets manage to survive without them. e:i.e., boring worded abilities as defined by me.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:49
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Devor posted:There's something about giving abilities really boring keywords that makes the ability feel so much worse. I think the problem is also devaluing the idea of "keywords" (including ability words, even if they are technically distinct). When there are/were only 2-3 keywords per block, each keyword (again, including ability words) could be distinct and felt interesting. They were something to get excited about, in a manner of speaking. When you decide that everything and its brother needs to be keyworded--including things that are very clearly not that interesting or prominent--the subconscious conclusion that builds up over time is that, all else being equal, a new set's keywords are nothing to get interested in. Which you'd think would be the opposite of the effect R&D would want to create. Now, I'm obviously not saying that something like cycling is mechanically super exciting, but in an era before keyword bloat, it at least stood alone with, IIRC, only echo or morph (depending on which block you're talking about) competing for attention in the keyword zeitgeist of the block. That sort of identity has been lost now, relatively speaking.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:52
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well my main issue is that +1/+1 counters are a design space that has been thoroughly explored already
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Dec 30, 2015 00:55
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Dungeon Ecology posted:well my main issue is that +1/+1 counters are a design space that has been thoroughly explored already And my nephew enjoys it every time. Seriously, +1/+1 counters are something that the vast majority of players are never going to get tired of and Wizards knows that.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:58
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I've made an entire cube around +1/+1 counters - there's a lot about it that's been done.
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Dec 30, 2015 00:59
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I am waiting for them to keyword "keywords" so the G-Raveyard Party creatures can all just function. It's annoying to read the phrase "The same is true for..." which ends up not being comprehensive most of the time (even within their printed standards), which means you actually DO need to keep checking when you play one or the other.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:00
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Ramos posted:And my nephew enjoys it every time. Stuff like Outlast is a much more interesting way of using them if you're attaching a keyword, imo.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:03
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Also having a bunch of +1/+1 counter themes in adjacent sets allows for more interesting standard brews to emerge. Like there's a semi-competitive Hardened Scales deck emerging that could benefit a lot from Support.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:05
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evolve, imo, is one of the coolest ways i've seen +1/+1 counters used. I ain't saying 'abolish +1/+1 counters,' I'm just sayin theres good design space around +1/+1 counters (evolve, undying, outlast) and then there's uninspired stuff like megamorph and bolster.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:07
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I like -1/-1 counters.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:07
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Angry Grimace posted:
I mean, keywording a simple mechanic does not actually reduce mental overhead. e:not always (trample etc prove otherwise) Rinkles fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 01:20
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[Put a +1/+1 counter on X target creatures] apparently needs a keyword. [Put X 1/1 colorless Eldrazi Scion creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have "Sacrifice this creature: Add {1} to your mana pool."] apparently does not.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:23
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I like -1/-1 counters. I loving loved Incremental Blight.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:24
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I like -1/-1 counters. Infect is still the best keyword. Rinkles posted:Stuff like Outlast is a much more interesting way of using them if you're attaching a keyword, imo. Disagree. Outlast was just "Board is clogged and now we have several turns to wait until my guys get inevitably bigger."
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Dec 30, 2015 01:26
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Ramos posted:Infect is still the best keyword. Actually, it's Wither. Shadowmoor block had some really cool stuff and it's too bad that the weird monocolor multicolor thing ended up defining its reputation.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:30
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Process could really use a keyword. I really think they were just flooded with keywords already (Rally, Devoid, Ingest, Landfall is returning but it counts) Do Melira and Everlasting Torment work the way I want them too? Gensuki fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 01:31
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BJPaskoff posted:Throwaway, "this could have been done without naming it" abilities aren't for us cynical, jaded types. They're for new and inexperienced players to understand that a subsection of cards in the set all do the same thing. It also helps with the problem Naya's 5-power-matters theme had: it lets people know there's a theme. Bant, Grixis, and Jund had keywords. Esper had something as distinct as colored artifacts. What did Naya have? Um, a shared condition and/or restriction on abilities. It reads awfully. Maro got tons of people asking him about Naya's mechanic since despite appearing on 20 cards it had no easy indicator. You can see the lesson from that in Temur's ferocious.  Ferocious is the same thing but with an ability word. That makes it much, much simpler to grasp. Wild Slash can't be prevented, Force Away loots, Feed the Clans doubles the life gain, all with the same condition clearly indicated. So cards have support X as an easy way of saying "put a counter on up to X other target creatures". With Nissa, Oran-Reif, and Munda's Vanguard all having mass counter placing effects too, I think spreading counters on the squad is a thing they're trying to do, and having a keyword is a clear way of having that.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:32
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Gensuki posted:Process could really use a keyword. I really think they were just flooded with keywords already (Rally, Devoid, Ingest, Landfall is returning, but it counts) Aren't all the eldrazi that have the process ability also have the Processor creature type?
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Dec 30, 2015 01:33
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Support seems fine. It's not ultra exciting but it's a fairly clean and simple way to reward you for having multiple creatures out. All we've seen from it so far are "OK common" and "Sandsteppe Mastodon 2.0". I think its actually pretty weird that Support means one thing on a creature and a different thing on a spell though. Bolster certainly didn't work like that.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:33
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Oraculum Animi posted:Aren't all the eldrazi that have the process ability also have the Processor creature type? It doesn't say how much you have to process, and it takes up like 3-4 lines of text if I am remembering it correctly, when it could say When you cast Ulamog's Nullifier, you may Process 2. If you do, Counter target spell. (to Process 2, put two cards your opponents own from exile into their graveyards) This would let you have some of the bigger/rare cards be less text heavy, and might let them make more since the cards are a bit less wordy over all.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:38
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Lottery of Babylon posted:[Put a +1/+1 counter on X target creatures] apparently needs a keyword. The original Spawn didn't have a keyword either. They may not want token making to be a keyword.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:40
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i think i remember them saying that they wanted to keyword process, but with all processors already having Devoid plus the reminder text for devoid, they didn't feel they had enough room for everything, thus, the creature type Processor.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:41
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Ramos posted:Outlast was just "Board is clogged and now we have several turns to wait until my guys get inevitably bigger." That's really flavorful and imo makes Bolster better.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:41
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Dungeon Ecology posted:i think i remember them saying that they wanted to keyword process, but with all processors already having Devoid plus the reminder text for devoid, they didn't feel they had enough room for everything, thus, the creature type Processor.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:54
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Gensuki posted:It doesn't say how much you have to process, and it takes up like 3-4 lines of text if I am remembering it correctly, when it could say  Nullifier's ability happens on ETB.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:58
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Gensuki posted:Process could really use a keyword. I really think they were just flooded with keywords already (Rally, Devoid, Ingest, Landfall is returning but it counts) It depends on how you want them to work. You can still die to damage if that is what you want to happen.
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Dec 30, 2015 02:09
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End of Life Guy posted:That's really flavorful and imo makes Bolster better. Support runs supplies to the foot soldiers so they can fight better. Flavorful and makes going wide better.
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Dec 30, 2015 02:09
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