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you might not be likely to roll a 0 heal, but darkest dungeon has one of those RNGs that can feel hatred, so you will totally roll a 0 + bleed at the worst possible time.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:51
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paranoid randroid posted:you might not be likely to roll a 0 heal, but darkest dungeon has one of those RNGs that can feel hatred, so you will totally roll a 0 + bleed at the worst possible time. "My Tank is at Deaths Door, good thing my Occultist can jus-, oh, oh no, WHY?!"
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Dec 30, 2015 18:05
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Indecisive posted:I think you get a partial refund, i seem to remember getting 5g for a torch for example sullat posted:Very tiny. A tenth, I think. You're better off dumping them for more rubies. Or even crappy trinkets. Okey dokey, I'll trim down my shopping list a bit then. And I didn't listen to the torch shrine's warning... 
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Dec 30, 2015 18:05
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I also did the gimmick build with the backrow Man at Arms and it is a blast. Combined with a heal-specced Vestal you can heal an insane amount of HP on the MaA. And with him guarding up to two heroes at a time he can actually tank very well. Another good advantage you can also plan for is that he will block against stress dealers as well. So giving him a stress resistance trinket doesn't hurt because you can literally have a party of everybody being at 0 stress and your MaA being at 70. In this party comp I took a Houndmaster and used Therapy Dog on the stressed out Man at Arms.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:07
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Koboje posted:"My Tank is at Deaths Door, good thing my Occultist can jus-, oh, oh no, WHY?!" You could just roll a crit heal too, those were always fun.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:09
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paranoid randroid posted:you might not be likely to roll a 0 heal, but darkest dungeon has one of those RNGs that can feel hatred, so you will totally roll a 0 + bleed at the worst possible time. 
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Dec 30, 2015 18:12
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dogstile posted:You could just roll a crit heal too, those were always fun. i was a big fan of when crit heals were bugged so that the occultist could roll a critical 0 heal "i did sweet gently caress all, but i did it really good"
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Dec 30, 2015 18:17
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Do you think they are going to change class balance in the final version? Some of the classes feel way out of whack with the rest. They ask the community about this a lot, and I think highwayman, graverobber, leper, and jester consistently come up pretty low on the list. Especially jester, the poor bastard. I just haven't found a way to make him actually work.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:24
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grave robber and leper are cool and good as they are, imo. GRs are vicious crit machines that can hit everywhere and are highly mobile. lepers are brick walls that murder dudes, as long as you stick some steady boots on them to make sure they dont get pushed to the back by a cultist witch. ive personally never been able to get highwaymen to work for me, but people seem to think they are also cool and good. jester is the only class im completely baffled by. im not sure what his niche is supposed to be. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 18:33
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Operant posted:Do you think they are going to change class balance in the final version? Some of the classes feel way out of whack with the rest. They ask the community about this a lot, and I think highwayman, graverobber, leper, and jester consistently come up pretty low on the list. Especially jester, the poor bastard. I just haven't found a way to make him actually work. Could happen. They're still adjusting it now, after all. Why would they stop adjusting after release? Unless, of course, they're happy with it now. Who can say?
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Dec 30, 2015 18:45
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On the other hand...  But yes, always keep a
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Dec 30, 2015 19:04
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Also Vestal are prima donnas that won't work with a guy just because he's a terrifying abomination that is shunned by the Light. Still, for dudes that deal AoE damage, being able to give 3-4 hp to everyone to get off death's door is quite valuable.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:10
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the vestal has capital-I Issues, tho. its the crusader who is just a huge snotty mcsnotterson about the whole situation. seriously the vestals affliction barks are really terrible to read.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:17
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Haha whoever said hunger needs some tweaking is right. I just had a leper die from starvation because he was too full.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:23
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Pavlov posted:Haha whoever said hunger needs some tweaking is right. I just had a leper die from starvation because he was too full. hunger seems like the one thing that should be predictable unless one of your dudes is a glutton.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:44
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Just finished the first boss, the Necromancer apprentice. This game really gives the feeling of "One More Dungeon before I stop" as my adventurers try desperately to survive. Had a good laugh though when I escaped from a battle with 3 people left, and one of them had a heart attack > death, which lead to the second, which lead to the third, which lead to a total party wipe. It was a bunch of new guys though, so no loss there.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:49
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Pavlov posted:Haha whoever said hunger needs some tweaking is right. I just had a leper die from starvation because he was too full. yeah that's literally what happened to my team once, had to actually pull out of a run due to that happening late. Panfilo posted:I also did the gimmick build with the backrow Man at Arms and it is a blast. Combined with a heal-specced Vestal you can heal an insane amount of HP on the MaA. And with him guarding up to two heroes at a time he can actually tank very well. I didn't think about putting stress items on him, good idea. currently I forgot what his other item is but the only reason I roll him in the back is because of that legendary relic that grants insane heal/Prot stats on him in rank 4. Operant posted:Do you think they are going to change class balance in the final version? Some of the classes feel way out of whack with the rest. They ask the community about this a lot, and I think highwayman, graverobber, leper, and jester consistently come up pretty low on the list. Especially jester, the poor bastard. I just haven't found a way to make him actually work. I think Leper and even Grave Robber have their niches, Jesters def are tough to use, but Highwayman??? First I've heard that he's a low-tier option. Then again, people say Leper is trash but I only put him on buff-teams (Jester/MaA wdoing speed+accuracy buffs for him own). For Highwayman, I've consistently been using Point-Blank Shot as a first strike to pop big damage, move him back one, then use the big crits from Tracking Shot, Clean Guns, the normal Pistol Shot. If you want, you can even use Duelist's Advance+Point Blank Shot, which is an awesome combo. I don't know how people feel about Grapeshot but it's a fairly decent mop-up I have on one gunner. If anything, they buffed him a bit by having Tracking Shot keep the stat-up even if it misses. He's actually saved my rear end with the front/back row options in big boss fights; PBShot alone against Hag was my saving grace.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:51
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MinibarMatchman posted:
I had grapeshot miss all three enemies four times in a row once, and I've been leery of it ever since
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Dec 30, 2015 19:56
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MinibarMatchman posted:
Highwayman used to be super powerful but the change to damage calculation for AOEs nerfed him pretty hard. It used to be you'd stack +damage% on him and spam Grapeshot; having never had any sort of utility, now that he's lost that trick he's not particularly great at anything. He has some use on shuffle teams, especially if you can get him to Point Blank Shot a lot, but other than that he's pretty much just going to sit in slot 2-3 and hit people for fairly average damage. A couple of tweaks would make him great - I think adding a Mark to Tracking Shot would be good, though he'd want another thing or two - but as it stands, while he's not a bad character, there's just not much reason to pick him over someone else. Glidergun fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 20:29
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Since we're sort of talking about it here, is there a go-to guide I can read while I'm at work on what classes are good when? Top example being Jester--I have no real idea what they're used for besides shuffling the hell out of your own party order 
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Dec 30, 2015 20:30
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Jester has a really good single-target stress heal if the rest of your team is capable enough of handling fights on their own. Bring him along in rank 4 and let him keep your entire party at 0 stress for the entire dungeon. It's more of a strategic long-term move since it means you don't have to bench your guys at the bar back in the Hamlet. His actual damage dealing skills aren't that good, but Finale looks really cool.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:32
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Pattonesque posted:I had grapeshot miss all three enemies four times in a row once, and I've been leery of it ever since I noticed that with blanket fire. Are some AoE attacks set up so that if one misses, they all miss?
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Dec 30, 2015 20:39
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Boing posted:Jester has a really good single-target stress heal if the rest of your team is capable enough of handling fights on their own. Bring him along in rank 4 and let him keep your entire party at 0 stress for the entire dungeon. It's more of a strategic long-term move since it means you don't have to bench your guys at the bar back in the Hamlet. If the rest of your team is capable of handling fights on their own, you don't really need a stress healer (and the Houndmaster is just as good for keeping stress down on average, with a lot more functionality.) The "best" use of Jester is to stick him in rank 2-3 for Weald/Warrens runs and have him spam Harvest and Slice Off. That way he's at least an acceptable attacker, and he still helps out on stress by racking up crits. He's still not appreciably better than other alternatives, though.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:40
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I'll never understand why the hunger events are random. After all these years of roguelikes, I figured that we've probably more or less solved the idea of a food clock. Why reinvent the wheel, exactly?Glidergun posted:Highwayman used to be super powerful but the change to damage calculation for AOEs nerfed him pretty hard. It used to be you'd stack +damage% on him and spam Grapeshot; having never had any sort of utility, now that he's lost that trick he's not particularly great at anything. He has some use on shuffle teams, especially if you can get him to Point Blank Shot a lot, but other than that he's pretty much just going to sit in slot 2-3 and hit people for fairly average damage. They also beat down pretty heavily on his best trinkets, the Gunslinger's Buckle and the Focus Ring, and then doubled down by not letting you just wear two of either of them. His single target damage is lower than the Grave Robber's and especially the Arbalest at range, and why would you ever use him in melee over the half-dozen other melee classes? RIP Dismas. Bleu fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 20:41
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paranoid randroid posted:the vestal has capital-I Issues, tho. its the crusader who is just a huge snotty mcsnotterson about the whole situation. To bring this back for a second: these religious folks have no problem running elbows with murderers for hire, profaner of tombs and a freakin' occultist, but stick them next to someone who most certainly did not ask to be turned into a goat demon and is trying his level best not to murder everyone and suddenly they turn their noses up. Tu quoque, Leper? You that should know more than anyone else what it means to be shunned?
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Dec 30, 2015 20:44
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Boing posted:Jester has a really good single-target stress heal if the rest of your team is capable enough of handling fights on their own. Bring him along in rank 4 and let him keep your entire party at 0 stress for the entire dungeon. It's more of a strategic long-term move since it means you don't have to bench your guys at the bar back in the Hamlet. I've found this works really well with an Abomination in the party. I've also used a Jester in an "everyone moves all the time anyway so gently caress your position-swapping monsters" experiment, and it worked out reasonably well. (Both the Jester and the experiment.) Though it's been long enough I can't recall exactly what I did. I think I had a Grave Robber using shadow fade and that lunge ability, a Highwayman with his move skills and...possibly a Crusader? I think I was after someone that could function half-decently as a healer and still have some mobility, but I remember that being the weakest bit of the party.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:44
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paradoxGentleman posted:To bring this back for a second: these religious folks have no problem running elbows with murderers for hire, profaner of tombs and a freakin' occultist, but stick them next to someone who most certainly did not ask to be turned into a goat demon and is trying his level best not to murder everyone and suddenly they turn their noses up. well i mean a murderers mostly just this guy, yknow? you can tsk at him behind his back and make passive aggressive offers to pray for him. but the abomination is an actual-factual abomination who turns into a looming beast in the umbra and no no no no no no no no nonon ononono mother please no
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Dec 30, 2015 20:55
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So I picked this game up during the steam sale and I think I hate it. The difficulty just seems so artificial. You never see percentages for characters to disarm traps, spot traps, hit enemies (other than manually looking at ability/weapon accuracy and enemy dodge) you just randomly bumble around dungeons and get diseased, have heart attacks and poke yourself with rusty needles. The combat is somewhat interesting but the stress mechanics are just obnoxious. It feels like someone made a game with XCOM Long War's fatigue mechanic front and center. Or am I just awful at this game? I just feel like I wasted 10 bucks.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:58
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paradoxGentleman posted:To bring this back for a second: these religious folks have no problem running elbows with murderers for hire, profaner of tombs and a freakin' occultist, but stick them next to someone who most certainly did not ask to be turned into a goat demon and is trying his level best not to murder everyone and suddenly they turn their noses up. Look, they're bad people, but they're just people. They die, they get their divinely mandated punishment for all eternity, and maybe not everything's fine but everything's going like it's supposed to. People are fallible and capable of choice, some people will abuse that to be total shitbags to everyone or grasp at things outside their purview, and they will get their just deserts eventually. But that thing is a demon wearing the shell of a man. You can even see it pop out when it's nominally "human" to spit foul humors at things. I will have no truck with such a perversion. Glidergun fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 21:03
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fennesz posted:So I picked this game up during the steam sale and I think I hate it. The difficulty just seems so artificial. You never see percentages for characters to disarm traps, spot traps, hit enemies (other than manually looking at ability/weapon accuracy and enemy dodge) you just randomly bumble around dungeons and get diseased, have heart attacks and poke yourself with rusty needles. The combat is somewhat interesting but the stress mechanics are just obnoxious. It feels like someone made a game with XCOM Long War's fatigue mechanic front and center. You disarm traps and spot them as long as you have the stats for it + the Torch level is enough to enable you to scout them. The percentages that matter for the most part are all the resistances listed under every enemy. I don't know how you'd get heart attacks that often early on though unless you're not prepping enough or running into some awful luck. The stress mechanics can all be dealt with and are a firm brick in the game's wall, though--as you get stronger and level up your items/skills/weapons/armor, the real test is more about keeping stress down since you'll be eventually (hopefully) getting stronger than a decent chunk of your foes. If the stress mechanic ain't your thing then you ought to probably do a refund.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:09
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I'm honestly expecting Red Hook to implement a unique stress event for the Abomination where he turns on the party and you have to put him down.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:15
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fennesz posted:So I picked this game up during the steam sale and I think I hate it. The difficulty just seems so artificial. You never see percentages for characters to disarm traps, spot traps, hit enemies (other than manually looking at ability/weapon accuracy and enemy dodge) you just randomly bumble around dungeons and get diseased, have heart attacks and poke yourself with rusty needles. The combat is somewhat interesting but the stress mechanics are just obnoxious. It feels like someone made a game with XCOM Long War's fatigue mechanic front and center. tbqh you sound awful at the game, but that's no reason to hate on you for it. It may just not be for you.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:18
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Best use of a jester I've found so far is in a farming squad for the stress reduction. Basically a group that you're going to run up to level 3 and then dump because they're just getting you some basic income or buying some weeks while higher level guys take a break. His party buff is pretty nice, so I usually drop a couple rounds of that and then mop up any stress bits. Bleed attacks in general I'm not a big fan of, they lack the crit modifiers normal attacks usually get but also don't stack up the damage like blight attacks do. The other good use for a jester I can see is to let a party with an abomination hulk out basically every fight, but I still haven't had the classes show up to let me try it in practice. Food events aren't a food clock, they're a random bad event. The point is that you need some sort of supplies, and then you're balancing how long you have with how much food you have left. Unless you're eating a ton of food for healing then you shouldn't really run into not having enough food for an event. I think part of the problem with graverobber and highwayman is that they used to be the most reliable at being able to hit back spots, but a lot of the new classes are able to do that as well and have better scaling on abilities. Graverobber is in a better spot because they gave her a round of buffs. Leper needs something that'd make you want to take him in the front line over your other options, and being able to heal/destress himself isn't a big enough deal. The rest of his stuff someone else will do better and hit more spots. The occultist is my favorite healer, mostly because when you don't need a heal he has a much better skill list than the vestal. He has a really high natural crit rate and surprisingly good scaling on his abilities. His heal with his crit rate probably makes his average heal higher than the vestal, but it isn't as on-demand so you have to account for that. After a few levels people start to have enough hp that it is easier to work with as well. Consider bringing someone with an on-demand heal to pull people off death's door like plague doctor or arbalest. A party to try out is arbalest-occultist-man at arms-hellion. This is sort of a half-way marking party with really strong camp buffs. There are a couple of ways to use up the 12 units of time, but at the very least you want to self-damage buff arbalest and man-at-arms buff the hellion. Occultist can give another +20% dmg to someone, hellion can self-buff 10% crit, or man-at-arms can self buff damage or do some dodge buffing. Hellion can hit all 4 enemy spots with strong attacks, man-at-arms can hit/stun spots 1-3 and defend people, arbalest has a reliable heal and an amazing mark attack, occultist is able to provide heals/mark/dmg/utility. In general you only mark big enemies because the occultist attacks are strong enough that you're using them, but mark/debuff dodge can be really nice to guarantee someone dies. edit: fennesz: The stress mechanic is there to give something besides hp damage. It is part of the game to deal with learning to handle that and juggling overall roster and stuff. Trap disarm is listed on character sheet, to-hit shows when you have the attack highlighted before you actually attack the enemy, and to spot traps you need to have a scouting thing happen in a room. That reveals a certain amount of map. Most things you can interact with using a supply item to remove chances for rusty needles and things. Having trouble with heart attacks just tells me you haven't grok'd the combat yet. Do you play roguelikes at all?
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Dec 30, 2015 21:25
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fennesz posted:It feels like someone made a game with XCOM Long War's fatigue mechanic front and center. Well, yes, pretty much exactly that. Once you get your footing the stress gets a lot more manageable and you won't have to spend so much time and money treating stress, but you still pretty much need a rotating roster of 10+ characters. If that's not your kind of game, you probably just wasted 10 bucks.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:35
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ZypherIM posted:Best use of a jester I've found so far is in a farming squad for the stress reduction. Basically a group that you're going to run up to level 3 and then dump because they're just getting you some basic income or buying some weeks while higher level guys take a break. His party buff is pretty nice, so I usually drop a couple rounds of that and then mop up any stress bits. Bleed attacks in general I'm not a big fan of, they lack the crit modifiers normal attacks usually get but also don't stack up the damage like blight attacks do. This complaint makes no sense. With the Jester's base crit, Slice Off is about the highest crit attack in the game short of conditional attacks like Lunge/Finale/marked Sniper Shot. Blight attacks do barely more DOT than bleed attacks but have way, way less upfront damage.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:43
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I'll also add that I had built up like 5 vestals for high level runs but then started playing with my 2 occult guys and I really love their skillset. the tentacle pull in particular is loving great because it's such a reliable mover, can completely ruin an enemy's attacks by dragging just two guys from the back into the forefront. And of course Weakness Curse is loving awesome for bosses or big things. Bad Seafood posted:I'm honestly expecting Red Hook to implement a unique stress event for the Abomination where he turns on the party and you have to put him down. this would be amazing, I can't imagine how hosed it would be if he just goes feral and kills your party at the very end of the Darkest Dungeon. They should def save it for like, close to a heart attack or something. Besides the stress he gives, the strength of his attacks and that auto-regen after fights makes Abomination pretty strong. Adding one more monstrous "what-if" for his stress would be nice.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:44
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fennesz posted:So I picked this game up during the steam sale and I think I hate it. The difficulty just seems so artificial. You never see percentages for characters to disarm traps, spot traps, hit enemies (other than manually looking at ability/weapon accuracy and enemy dodge) you just randomly bumble around dungeons and get diseased, have heart attacks and poke yourself with rusty needles. The combat is somewhat interesting but the stress mechanics are just obnoxious. It feels like someone made a game with XCOM Long War's fatigue mechanic front and center. All of the things you have just mentioned are in the game!  On the character screen, the character has a "Resistances" stat, one of which is "Traps". Hovering over that gives a disarm chance.  In battle, if you pick an attack and hover over an enemy, the stat box in the lower left will tell you what the attack does.  Stress is a bitch to deal with, especially early game. There is absolutely no penalty for taking 4 fresh-off-the-cart adventurers, shoving them in a dungeon with no supplies, retreating before they all die, and then booting them out of your crew. Camping really helps with stress resist, as does getting the skills, trinkets, and levels to kill things fast. The first thing I level in town is the stagecoach - 4 people every turn is fantastic, as is getting a larger roster so you can hold on to more people who will be good once you have the spare cash to help them. After that, the abbey's Cloister for stress relief on good dudes and the Guild to make characters more powerful.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:45
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Gabriel Pope posted:This complaint makes no sense. With the Jester's base crit, Slice Off is about the highest crit attack in the game short of conditional attacks like Lunge/Finale/marked Sniper Shot. Blight attacks do barely more DOT than bleed attacks but have way, way less upfront damage. I'm glad you picked the only really non-poo poo bleed skill to use for the example. Yes, slice off is a solid skill because it is pretty much stronger than all the other bleed skills. Other ones I use tend to be for a different reason and they just happen to cause bleed, like if-it-bleeds. Honestly I don't even use a lot of blight effects, but in general if I'm using a dot it is for a high prot enemy, which often is going to tank the damage the person with a bleed effect can do anyways (low base damage, damage penalty on attack, combined with prot). If you have any stuns around it is pretty easy to pull an extra turn of dot damage out as well. Side note, poo poo like this is really hard to go compare because the various wiki sites are absolute poo poo at keeping their numbers up to date.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:22
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Why do people specifically recommend the Cloister and Bar for upgrades, rather than the other two for each location? How high do you want people to get before you bother unlocking skills or upgrading skills and weapons on them? Does the game have a clock, like XCom's constantly-upgrading adversaries, or if you get right hosed can you always keep on trucking?
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Dec 30, 2015 22:25
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Bad Seafood posted:I'm honestly expecting Red Hook to implement a unique stress event for the Abomination where he turns on the party and you have to put him down. That'd be pretty great. It'd also be pretty cool if when he dies he hulks out and joins the other team. Although then they'd probably need to add some other unique stress events to other classes to round it out.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:29
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