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Krispy Kareem posted:I wonder if car buying is one of those White Privilege things no one ever thinks about. If you're middle class and up, there's a good chance you'll either be given your first car or help purchasing one. A few years later, your next car will be significantly cheaper because you can trade-in your wholly owned first car. My first car was a vehicle that was sold for $299 two years after I started driving it and this isn't exactly uncommon. I think the junkyard got taken on that deal. Most people buying a first car shouldn't buy one that's expensive enough to have an onerous loan payment.
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Dec 30, 2015 16:46
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Cars are incredibly bad with money, but necessary for 95% of America.
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Dec 30, 2015 16:48
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Getting decent trade-in value on your car is generally BWM, unless you're trading in the two-seater because you had a kid or something.
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Dec 30, 2015 16:55
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I bought a 2010 Golf TDI back in late 2013 when gas was like $3.50 a gallon and before it was revealed that VW was cheating on emissions tests. That's pretty BWM
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Dec 30, 2015 17:00
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There's probably a pretty good correlation between the two given the over representation of minorities in the lower income/capital quartiles due to official segregationist policies designed to prevent them from attaining any economic standing which could be leveraged as political power against the interests of those who want o keep the system that way.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:11
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I bought a 2010 Golf TDI back in late 2013 when gas was like $3.50 a gallon and before it was revealed that VW was cheating on emissions tests. That's pretty BWM Sounds like bad luck.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:15
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Krispy Kareem posted:I wonder if car buying is one of those White Privilege things no one ever thinks about. If you're middle class and up, there's a good chance you'll either be given your first car or help purchasing one. A few years later, your next car will be significantly cheaper because you can trade-in your wholly owned first car. Or maybe, I don’t know, work hard and save money so that you can afford a car? I wasn’t given a car, my family is in no position to give me a car, and it *literally* never crossed my mind until your post that they should give me a car. But I suppose I am not as envious of others as you are. I can afford to buy a fancy car now, but I choose not to. GWM. What is with the tone of this entire thread such that not being given a car when you are 18 is some life tragedy and social injustice?
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Dec 30, 2015 17:17
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I'm trying to think of my history and money in/out of cars. Had a fairly middle class upbringing and had a few legs up, but nothing terribly extreme and follows the example of the first car being gifted. I drove the family's minivan until we couldn't work within everyone's schedules, and they bought me the Subaru. Outside of that, everything else was on me (insurance, etc). Oct 2006 - Apr 2007: 1997 Subaru Legacy Outback, $4000 (probably) Net: $0 (of my money) Apr 2007 - Jan 2008: 1996 Mazda Miata, $4200 (sold the Outback for $3800) Net: -$400 Feb 2008 - Now: 1994 Mazda Miata, $3400 (needed $1k in work immediately, insurance gave me $5725 for the 96 Miata) Net: +~$900 (bought back the totaled 96 and grabbed some parts off of it) Jan 2012 - Oct 2015: 2012 Mazda 2, $17000 for 60 months @ 2.99% (the Miata kept on blowing up, needed reliable transport, had a 720 Fico off of a $600 BoA credit card) Net: -$17000 Oct 2015 - Now: 2016 Mazda MX-5, $32000 (traded in the 2 for 1.5k more than what was owed on it, put some money down, financed 29k for 60mo @ 1.99%) Net: -$30500 Note, this doesn't include the endless heap of money I've thrown at the 94 Miata or the 93 Lexus SC300 endurance race car that I'm a 1/3rd owner in. Don't buy cars; buy a bicycle.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:20
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John Smith posted:Or maybe, I don’t know, work hard and save money so that you can afford a car? I wasn’t given a car, my family is in no position to give me a car, and it *literally* never crossed my mind until your post that they should give me a car. But I suppose I am not as envious of others as you are. I got a modest hand-me-down car to start off (as did most of my middle-class peers; some got several.) That meant I could slack off, not bother working hard at anything, and still live comfortably and accumulate substantial savings compared to most of my peers. Sorry that you had to do all that work that I never had to and never will, but it's ok, life's fair that way.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:24
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John Smith posted:What is with the tone of this entire thread such that not being given a car when you are 18 is some life tragedy and social injustice? It isn't; however, it does give people a leg up in terms of options when exiting high school. Much like everything else, there's a million ways to gently caress it up spectacularly, but someone who has access to reliable and personal transportation in America has more options opened up to them by default. I wish that public transit was significantly more robust in the states. People can and do make way without being gifted a car; however, buying a car when you are a dead broke teenager is next to an impossible feat without environmental factors making it feasible (eg: find employment within walking/biking distance of your residence).
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Dec 30, 2015 17:25
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I had to pay 100% of the cars I bought, maintenance, gas, and insurance, but I don't act like a massive prick about it. I act like a massive prick for other reasons.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:30
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Phone posted:It isn't; however, it does give people a leg up in terms of options when exiting high school. Much like everything else, there's a million ways to gently caress it up spectacularly, but someone who has access to reliable and personal transportation in America has more options opened up to them by default. I wish that public transit was significantly more robust in the states. I walked and got rides to mcdonalds when I was 16 until I could save up 500$ for an 82 toyota. I drove that thing for three years. This is 95 btw. If you're living with your parents, you don't generally have expenses. I grew up in a lower class neighborhood that was post-blue collar, and everyone had a car. lovely cars, sure, but we had them. We also all had after school jobs of some sort. When did 16 year olds stop working?
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Dec 30, 2015 17:34
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Gabriel Pope posted:I got a modest hand-me-down car to start off (as did most of my middle-class peers; some got several.) That meant I could slack off, not bother working hard at anything, and still live comfortably and accumulate substantial savings compared to most of my peers. Sorry that you had to do all that work that I never had to and never will, but it's ok, life's fair that way. Good for you, I hope you appreciate your parents’ kindness. Not a single cousin in my very extended (Asian) family was given a car, not even a piece of poo poo car. I went to a rather fancy school, and my classmates would be dropped off in Mercedes and BMWs while I took the bus. I did fancy those cool cars and wish I had one too, who wouldn’t? But I don’t have this boiling anger inside me that others are more well off than me that is apparently so common here. For content: my former boss bought a fancy apartment right around the peak of the housing boom. This is on top of his existing residential apartment. He has since been kind of stuck. I don't think he can service both apartments, but neither can he really afford to sell at a massive loss. Edit: Phone posted:People can and do make way without being gifted a car; however, buying a car when you are a dead broke teenager is next to an impossible feat without environmental factors making it feasible (eg: find employment within walking/biking distance of your residence). Borrow money? I borrowed over 20k in study loans by the time I graduated (the normal 4 years), and paid it off in *13* months. I am not humble bragging here. I am outright saying that I worked and saved. hanales posted:I walked and got rides to mcdonalds when I was 16 until I could save up 500$ for an 82 toyota. I drove that thing for three years. This is 95 btw. Glad to see that not everybody thinks that we are all entitled to a free car from our parents. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 30, 2015 17:37
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antiga posted:My first car was a vehicle that was sold for $299 two years after I started driving it and this isn't exactly uncommon. I think the junkyard got taken on that deal. Unfortunately, there's a price floor on boring, reliable cars. If you're a good amateur mechanic you might be able to spot and score something with easily fixed issues for a few hundred bucks, but most people don't have the knowledge or the tools. If they're poor, they're left with the options of spending all they have and a little more on something that technically runs and is likely to have them car shopping with all their savings again in a few months, or all they have and a lot more at a terrible interest rate on something that starts without horrible noises and might be reliable. Cars are a terrible poverty trap, in part because they're so necessary in so many places. As for the white privilege thing, scummy lots and Craigslist sellers tend to be equal-opportunity assholes. God help anybody with limited English skills who takes out financing at a buy-here-pay-here, though. E: hanales posted:I walked and got rides to mcdonalds when I was 16 until I could save up 500$ for an 82 toyota. I drove that thing for three years. This is 95 btw. Basic-level used cars have gotten a lot more expensive since the Great Recession and the final death of the stigma against small Japanese cars. A running 2002 Toyota with no major problems but plenty of beater-ish issues would be several times more expensive today, even adjusted for inflation. And, it'll be a lot harder to do mechanical work yourself. And, that's nice that you didn't have to pay your parents rent. There are a ton of kids who get jobs at 14 and don't get that luxury. Space Gopher fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 17:40
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Space Gopher posted:Unfortunately, there's a price floor on boring, reliable cars. If you're a good amateur mechanic you might be able to spot and score something with easily fixed issues for a few hundred bucks, but most people don't have the knowledge or the tools. If they're poor, they're left with the options of spending all they have and a little more on something that technically runs and is likely to have them car shopping with all their savings again in a few months, or all they have and a lot more at a terrible interest rate on something that starts without horrible noises and might be reliable. Cars are a terrible poverty trap, in part because they're so necessary in so many places. This is my sister
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Dec 30, 2015 17:43
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Employing 16 year olds is an expensive proposition. They have a poo poo load of restrictions and the manager gets to spend another 15 minutes figuring out next weeks' schedule, or you employ some mid-30s dude for the same pay but with none of the restrictions. That math is super easy to figure out. Also, to back up the claims of CL and the used car biz being a cesspool of nothingness: if your budget is sub-3k, all of your options become "has 4 tires in various states of wear and technically runs". If you double your budget up to $6k, you can now be picky with what you're getting and start looking for deals if you put in some sweat equity.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:58
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John Smith posted:Good for you, I hope you appreciate your parents’ kindness. Not a single cousin in my very extended (Asian) family was given a car, not even a piece of poo poo car. Lol you're a privileged piece of poo poo and you can't even see it.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:02
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My parents helped my brother and sister get cars for around $1000 when they turned 16. 6 years later when I turned 16 they wouldn't allow me to have a license or buy my own car. I worked constantly from 16 -18 (no joke, I put in something like 100 hour weeks during the summers and clocked 40 hour on top of school during the year) and saved up money and moved to a city with a bus system since I was hosed on the not being allowed to drive thing. It's nice because I learned to live my life with out a car but jesus christ it was tough in Memphis to have no car. Walking 2 miles to work in humid heat stroke weather has made me truly appreciate the cold gray rain of the PNW. So overall I guess my parents ended up becoming and made me GWM but only because they were huge assholes and hated their youngest child.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:03
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Krispy Kareem posted:I wonder if car buying is one of those White Privilege things no one ever thinks about. If you're middle class and up, there's a good chance you'll either be given your first car or help purchasing one. A few years later, your next car will be significantly cheaper because you can trade-in your wholly owned first car. It definitely is. I bought two of the last 3 vehicles I've owned off my dad, both for $500, when they were worth way way more than that. It's one of those hidden transactions where I was basically given 3-4 grand without thinking about it. I'm also in a bad position now where a baby is about to arrive and the only vehicles the family has is a '99 camry and '05 vibe, both of which need major work, but I don't want to get a newer used car that might also need major work, and also don't want a new car that's expensive! Maybe I can just convince my wife to take the bus for several extra hours a day. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 18:12
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Phone posted:People can and do make way without being gifted a car; however, buying a car when you are a dead broke teenager is next to an impossible feat without environmental factors making it feasible (eg: find employment within walking/biking distance of your residence). Personally, I hope to buy my kids an old, but serviceable car that they can learn to fix and repair on their own. Not sure how well this will pan out, but I think it'll be a great way to teach them about car maintenance. This is all assuming that there aren't fleets of on-demand, self-driving Uberbots by that time, of course! melon cat fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 18:43
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I'm the fourth of five kids in my family. Shuffling around kids to different appointments, sports practices, clubs, etc. is a pain in the rear end for a parent of two children, let alone five. I understand I was privileged growing up, though. 1st kid: Jeep Cherokee when he was 16 2nd kid: 1995 Ford Probe 3rd kid: 1995 Ford Probe 4th kid (me): 1995 Ford Probe 5th kid: 1995 Ford Probe I got the Probe back when I was a sophomore in college, since I was then living off campus. Kids 1, 2 and 3 bought used cars when they were sophomores (VW Jetta, '96 Mustang and '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee, respectively). Kid #5 got kid #1's Jetta when she was 26 when kid #1 bought himself a new car. I drove that '95 Probe from 2001-2005. The drivers side door wouldn't open anymore. The A/C and stereo system didn't work. Finally, it just died. I got a 2005 Jeep Liberty, drove it for 10 years when it died, and upgraded to a Jeep Cherokee in 2015. I'll drive it til it dies.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:12
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hey everyone no one cares about your cars or when or how you bought them or how quickly you paid them off
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Dec 30, 2015 19:42
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Phone posted:Employing 16 year olds is an expensive proposition. They have a poo poo load of restrictions and the manager gets to spend another 15 minutes figuring out next weeks' schedule, or you employ some mid-30s dude Lot's of mid-30s dudes doing that 4-11 shift at your local fast food joint? Also, you just described my 82 corolla. I never put tires on it. I don't think I ever even changed the oil. There was a hole rusted through the driver's side floor. Do you guys think an 8 dollar an hour job when you live at home can't get you a serviceable used car to tool around your local town in, you guys have a weird expectation. It's not like you need to take a lot of cross country trips or commute 90 miles a day at 16. Now when we're talking about extreme poverty, that's a different story, but the vast majority of americans do not live in extreme poverty, just like the vast majority of americans don't live in extreme wealth.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:50
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Lady Gaza posted:hey everyone no one cares about your cars or when or how you bought them or how quickly you paid them off
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Dec 30, 2015 20:01
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Lady Gaza posted:hey everyone no one cares about your cars or when or how you bought them or how quickly you paid them off Seriously. All car chat is bad chat kids.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:02
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hanales posted:Lot's of mid-30s dudes doing that 4-11 shift at your local fast food joint? How much can one banana cost? 10 dollars?
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Dec 30, 2015 20:16
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Haifisch posted:Lots of last minute competition for the Worst Humblebrag award.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:39
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Nitrox posted:I also found a bag of heroin inside the smashed car, which brought the entire cost of this operation down by another 200. I'll take my award off the air, thank you.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:02
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Never thought I'd see a BFC/TCC crossover that wasn't inherently BWM but you've done it. that needs its own reward.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:02
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For content, my aunt bought a new Xbox One for my cousin, with a bunch of games and accessories for christmas. Probably 400-500 bucks all said and done. My cousin is 7.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:36
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Seven year olds play video games, you know.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:51
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I agree that's BWM, but just because it's an XBox One. He'll be wanting a PS4 instead within a year and a half, tops.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:52
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hanales posted:When did 16 year olds stop working? When Starbucks, McDonalds and Target discovered adults would work just as cheaply as teenagers and would put up with even more bullshit. I don't know where you live but everywhere I go in the USA the kind of jobs that teenagers stereotypically do are staffed by middle aged adults. It's depressing as gently caress.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:24
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the talent deficit posted:When Starbucks, McDonalds and Target discovered adults would work just as cheaply as teenagers and would put up with even more bullshit. I don't know where you live but everywhere I go in the USA the kind of jobs that teenagers stereotypically do are staffed by middle aged adults. It's depressing as gently caress.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:33
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CelestialScribe posted:Seven year olds play video games, you know. That's part of the BWM, she doesn't play games. She had a Wii that never got used. More context is necessary. This kid has more poo poo than can fit into their house. So they got a new house. The sheer amount of stuff my cousin has is mind boggling to me. And it's not even long term use stuff. It's whatever the hottest toys or latest fad is.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:42
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Phone posted:Employing 16 year olds is an expensive proposition. They have a poo poo load of restrictions and the manager gets to spend another 15 minutes figuring out next weeks' schedule, or you employ some mid-30s dude This is true, I can remember my first not-under-the-table job at 16 in the US and they got fined some stupid amount of money if we were a minute late clocking out for our lunch or something. I worked like 60 hours during the week of Spring Break (tourism/hospitality, so they were slammed) and they similarly got fined. Doesn't matter got paid  the talent deficit posted:When Starbucks, McDonalds and Target discovered adults would work just as cheaply as teenagers and would put up with even more bullshit. I don't know where you live but everywhere I go in the USA the kind of jobs that teenagers stereotypically do are staffed by middle aged adults. It's depressing as gently caress. Here in Australia, there is a separate, lower minimum wage for juniors, which IMO makes a lot of sense and I think has been suggested by a number of people arguing for raising the federal minimum wage in the US as well. Of course, some employers are cheapskates and once the kid turns 18 they suddenly don't have any hours for them, but that's kind of bound to happen. The downside I've found is that it seems to raise the expectation among employers for new hires to have previous experience (as a junior) in the role, as an adult who moved here I had zero luck "breaking in" to the exciting world of hospitality/service while on a student visa because it seemed the only employers who were willing to train were also only willing to pay junior rates.
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Dec 31, 2015 00:02
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Pompous Rhombus posted:This is true, I can remember my first not-under-the-table job at 16 in the US and they got fined some stupid amount of money if we were a minute late clocking out for our lunch or something. I worked like 60 hours during the week of Spring Break (tourism/hospitality, so they were slammed) and they similarly got fined. Doesn't matter got paid In the US if you work in the "Entertainment Industry" IE- a movie theater - they don't even have to pay OT and the minors thing is pretty glossed over. I always got 5.00 an hour regardless of how many hours I put in and it seemed like no one was auditing ages or anything. Tri state area movie chain.
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Dec 31, 2015 00:09
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When I was about to hit driving age, I started openly browsing those used car flyers, and made sure to show my parents all of the various death traps within my 16 year old budget. Suddenly I only had to come up with a down payment.
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Dec 31, 2015 00:22
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Krispy Kareem posted:I wonder if car buying is one of those White Privilege things no one ever thinks about. If you're middle class and up, there's a good chance you'll either be given your first car or help purchasing one. A few years later, your next car will be significantly cheaper because you can trade-in your wholly owned first car. My parents were lower - mid lower class and bought me my first 2 cars while I was in college. Both were beaters for under $1500. They did allow me to keep the ~$300 from scrapping both of them though
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Dec 31, 2015 00:33
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sparkmaster posted:For content, my aunt bought a new Xbox One for my cousin, with a bunch of games and accessories for christmas. Probably 400-500 bucks all said and done. Everyone I know who played video games at a young age is a programmer now and making bank, so GWM. edit- code equity
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Dec 31, 2015 00:35
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