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GoGoGadgetChris posted:If you're game, I would love to see you outline the story arc and major plot points. I'm curious how accurate you'll be having seen "pretty much all of the movie" He should do a Toxx so we can finally ban him when the movie comes out.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:36
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computer parts posted:Oh, so if a trailer hypes you up then that's ok, but if a trailer makes a movie seem like poo poo, then it doesn't count and you can't judge until you watch the movie. What? No. When a trailer gets you hyped it's doing it's job - which is making you want to pay money to see the movie. If the trailer makes the movie seem like poo poo it failed to achieve that same intended purpose, but obviously when we're talking about films in existing franchises people might hold out hope despite a bad trailer. All of that's totally separate from whether the trailer is an accurate representation of the film. Hulk Krogan fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 21:38
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Waffles Inc. posted:"you want to go home and rethink your life" is basically a mindwipe No
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Dec 31, 2015 21:38
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On the topic on Ren and Rey, when the first order officer informs Ren that they failed to get BB8 and it got away in the Falcon he didn't seem to care that much until 'the girl' is mentioned, at which point he flips out and force chokes the officer, not sure if that's because he's aware of Rey (or someone force sensitive/someone from his past) being on the planet, or more because there is someone else helping BB8 and Finn
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Dec 31, 2015 21:41
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Corbae posted:On the topic on Ren and Rey, when the first order officer informs Ren that they failed to get BB8 and it got away in the Falcon he didn't seem to care that much until 'the girl' is mentioned, at which point he flips out and force chokes the officer, not sure if that's because he's aware of Rey (or someone force sensitive/someone from his past) being on the planet, or more because there is someone else helping BB8 and Finn Yeah, I get the impression that it can't just be that there's somebody else helping. "What girl?!" seems to imply greater significance.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:44
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I just wanted him to follow that up with, "...is she hot?" "Sir, we don't know, we didn't get a good look..." Ren goes nuts and destroys the consoles
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Dec 31, 2015 21:48
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is it not? what's the difference between using the force to tell you to start a brand new life and using the force to make someone forget about their old life? or is your no just because it's from the prequels?????
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Dec 31, 2015 21:58
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:If you're game, I would love to see you outline the story arc and major plot points. I'm curious how accurate you'll be having seen "pretty much all of the movie" There's some attack, Bucky is implicated in the attack. Cap doesn't fully believe it's him, goes off to find Bucky, discovers he (Bucky) is being framed. Meanwhile, (probably) as a response to the attack there's a call to restrict/monitor superheroes. Tony Stark supports it, a few others are at the very least ambivalent to it (Black Widow, Black Panther*, etc). Cap is against it, and he's backed up by Bucky, Falcon, Hawkeye, etc. Because of this and because he won't hand over Bucky, Cap & co are deemed fugitives. Eventually, Tony Stark comes down to capture Cap & Bucky, they fight. It will eventually turn out that the original attack and the surveillance scheme is masterminded by some third party, probably Hydra**. Cap & Tony will forgive their grievances (at least temporarily), fight the actual bad guys, and return to the status quo. *I don't know his name from the trailer, but he is depicted in the trailer fighting Cap's side. **I'll admit I cheated here because supposedly the guy from Winter Soldier is coming back to commit the attack but it being a false flag isn't really a stretch given the "spy thriller" atmosphere of Winter Soldier.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:17
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Who the gently caress is Bucky. I had no idea.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:18
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Waffles Inc. posted:is it not? Trolling? A mind-wipe is terribly unethical, as it basically erases your identity, or takes away your sense of self. "Rethinking your life" is ethical, and even allows people to retain some form of freewill.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:18
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Hulk Krogan posted:What? No. When a trailer gets you hyped it's doing it's job - which is making you want to pay money to see the movie. If the trailer makes the movie seem like poo poo it failed to achieve that same intended purpose, but obviously when we're talking about films in existing franchises people might hold out hope despite a bad trailer. I would say (to get back on topic) that TFA's trailers did a pretty good job representing the film. euphronius posted:Who the gently caress is Bucky. I had no idea. The bad guy/titular character from Winter Soldier who is secretly Cap's BFF from WW2.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:19
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euphronius posted:Who the gently caress is Bucky. I had no idea. Did you not watch any of the Cap movies?
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Dec 31, 2015 22:20
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crowoutofcontext posted:Trolling? i'm not trolling how is "you don't want to sell me death sticks" followed by "you want to go home and rethink your life" not a radical re-shaping of that dude's identity? a "mind wipe" of his former self. just because we all would probably agree that being a drug dealer is a bad way of life, what if that guy was just selling death sticks on the side to finance his space-wife's space-chemo or some poo poo? I mean, likely not, but I would argue that Obi-Wan unilaterally deciding to upend that dude's life on a whim is just as unethical as erasing memories either way, the difference between a mindwipe on the level of what would be required for Rey and what happens to that dude is all in the writing "you will forget everything you've seen and wait on jakku for your family" how would that not be a mind wipe?
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Dec 31, 2015 22:23
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space breaking bad
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Dec 31, 2015 22:23
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enraged_camel posted:I just wanted him to follow that up with, "...is she hot?" what a bad post
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Dec 31, 2015 22:27
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Waffles Inc. posted:i'm not trolling Obi Wan didn't force him to upend his life, he just made him go home and think about it.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:31
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Waffles Inc. posted:how is "you don't want to sell me death sticks" followed by "you want to go home and rethink your life" not a radical re-shaping of that dude's identity? a "mind wipe" of his former self. I guess for me, "rethinking" your life doesn't necessarily imply radically changing yourself afterwards. It gives you the time to maybe choose which habits you should change and tweak but doesn't erase your personality and upload another one. Maybe the guy "rethinks his life" and continues to sell death-sticks but not to bearded stoic guys in robes. Obi-Wan's moral culpability is akin to Dr.Phil organizing a forced intervention to some drug-dealer/addict, while the equivalent to a mind-wipe would be to covertly induce a coma and electrocute the guys brains until he wakes up not knowing who his mother, father, wife was. In fact, taking your example, if Obi-Wan mind wiped the guy he would forget his beloved, cancer-ridden wife who would die somewhere begging for her husband.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:39
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The crocodile tears for George "invented the summer blockbuster and merchandising tie ins " for Disney not respecting his child (white sla res) are pretty hilarious and dumb. I wouldn't call him a hack, but lets not pretend he is some starving artist doing art for art's sake. He's an artist who has monitized his craft, good for him. As to the new order, more attention needs to be paid to the international market. Their steel helmed imagery is Nazi as hell, but Kylo Ren's first scene is unit 731 as gently caress. Then the New Order Pearl Harbors the New Republic. But given their tolerance of the New Order, the New Republic is basically Manchuria. Both the Resistence and the New Republic are of the Rebellion but which one is the true inheritor of that legacy? Plus, Ray is pretty clearly modeled on Zhao Yiman.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:47
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crowoutofcontext posted:I guess for me, "rethinking" your life doesn't necessarily imply radically changing yourself afterwards. It gives you the time to maybe choose which habits you should change and tweak but doesn't erase your personality and upload another one. Maybe the guy "rethinks his life" and continues to sell death-sticks but not to bearded stoic guys in robes. Obi-Wan's moral culpability is akin to Dr.Phil organizing a forced intervention to some drug-dealer/addict, while the equivalent to a mind-wipe would be to covertly induce a coma and electrocute the guys brains until he wakes up not knowing who his mother, father, wife was. totally see where you're coming from, along a certain train of thought--but I think semantically there's a sort of added command along with "rethink your life" if your mother catches you shooting up heroin and tells you to rethink your life, the implication is for you to quit shooting up heroin. i always read that scene as Obi-Wan telling that guy to stop dealing drugs either way, regardless of the ethics or Obi-Wan's true intent, i still don't think it's a stretch from "you want to go home and rethink your life" to "you want to forget about what you saw and wait for your family here on Jakku" i mean the force convinces stormtroopers of some ridiculous poo poo, and it also makes luke hallucinate
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Dec 31, 2015 22:49
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I'm 100% hopeful that Rey is from a completely unrelated lineage to anybody in previous movies. I'd be a great juxtaposition with a Kylo "Blood is Life" Ren to have Rey have no meaningful history to her family and still defeat him. Snoke also better be like a Force Ghost or something making the villain the opposite of Palpatine's obsession with corporeal power.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:58
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Bottom Liner posted:Did you not watch any of the Cap movies? No. I guess that explains it then. Thank you.
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Dec 31, 2015 23:01
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AccountSupervisor posted:I really dont get this fear of Disney making everything safe and not taking risks. So far every choice theyve made going forward indicates otherwise. Theyve hired auteur directors and seem to be giving them a lot of room to work. TFA was safe because they had to rebuild the foundation before they could start taking risks and pushing Star Wars in a direction we havent seen yet. I should mention that Rian Johnson's current body of work has almost been entirely in the crime genre, which is interesting to say the least. It's hard to tell if the aforementioned Looper is a science fiction film with criminal elements or a crime thriller with science fiction elements.
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Dec 31, 2015 23:02
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Barudak posted:I'm 100% hopeful that Rey is from a completely unrelated lineage to anybody in previous movies. I'd be a great juxtaposition with a Kylo "Blood is Life" Ren to have Rey have no meaningful history to her family and still defeat him. I feel the total opposite, I think it'd be weird and nonsensical for Rey to inexplicably be the strongest in the Force of all time and have all these Skywalker-y things aggressively calling out to awaken her to her potential if she's some random nobody who is the heir to nothing in particular.
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Dec 31, 2015 23:53
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Why do you think Rey is the strongest of all time.
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Dec 31, 2015 23:57
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euphronius posted:Why do you think Rey is the strongest of all time. I guess she may not literally be, but after this movie I certainly got the impression we're supposed to think she's special-er than anyone else, ever. Not even Anakin or Luke had lightsabers and poo poo literally screaming at them to be picked up. I'm not trying to say she's a Mary Sue nor start that argument again, but besides her having the greatest potential ever, what would your explanation be for how quickly she learns how to use the Force and how much the Force seems to be trying to awaken her to her destiny? Anakin's lightsaber never called to Luke, and he was the direct descendant of Anakin. Hell, in the scene where she finally starts to fight Kylo, it almost seems like the lightsaber propels itself into her hands, she certainly looks a bit surprised at it.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:05
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Waffles Inc. posted:totally see where you're coming from, along a certain train of thought--but I think semantically there's a sort of added command along with "rethink your life" Then you're reading into it. Every time we see a jedi use the force to command someone, they do exactly what the jedi says. Why is it different this time? The dude is completely free to think about his life and decide that selling death sticks is a perfectly fine business to be in. Besides, it's a throwaway joke of a line, one of the few that actually work in the prequels.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:05
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Beeez posted:I guess she may not literally be, but after this movie I certainly got the impression we're supposed to think she's special-er than anyone else, ever. Not even Anakin or Luke had lightsabers and poo poo literally screaming at them to be picked up. I'm not trying to say she's a Mary Sue nor start that argument again, but besides her having the greatest potential ever, what would your explanation be for how quickly she learns how to use the Force and how much the Force seems to be trying to awaken her to her destiny? Anakin's lightsaber never called to Luke, and he was the direct descendant of Anakin. Hell, in the scene where she finally starts to fight Kylo, it almost seems like the lightsaber propels itself into her hands, she certainly looks a bit surprised at it. I'm not really sure where you're getting the idea she's supposed to be specialer than everyone else. The only force powers she shows off in the film is pulling a Lightsaber to herself (with assistance from Kylo Ren), resisting Kylo Ren, mind-tricking a storm trooper after multiple attempts, and having a force vision pushed on her. Nobody tells her she has a special destiny, she's not integral to anybody's grand plans, she's just a good mechanic along for the ride as far as everybody but Maz is concerned. I mean, everything force-related she does in the films somebody else has done and is never presented as a particularly impressive use. Hell, she doesn't even use sense presence or whatever the hell you want to call it when force sensitive individuals use it to detect each other.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:24
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Barudak posted:I'm not really sure where you're getting the idea she's supposed to be specialer than everyone else. The only force powers she shows off in the film is pulling a Lightsaber to herself (with assistance from Kylo Ren), resisting Kylo Ren, mind-tricking a storm trooper after multiple attempts, and having a force vision pushed on her. Nobody tells her she has a special destiny, she's not integral to anybody's grand plans, she's just a good mechanic along for the ride as far as everybody but Maz is concerned. Yes this was my reply. Everything she does but the Jedi mind trick she was already skilled at.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:31
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And the mind trick was just a desperate Gambit, everyone has heard the stories, so she was like gently caress I guess it's worth a shot, and it took multiple attempts.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:34
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Besides, it's a throwaway joke of a line, one of the few that actually work in the prequels. i mean, apart from anything else this is a pretty silly reason to think it shouldn't be read into as a part of the film don't you think? even if it was supposed to be funny it's still something that a character does isn't it? Dr. Fishopolis posted:Then you're reading into it. Every time we see a jedi use the force to command someone, they do exactly what the jedi says. Why is it different this time? The dude is completely free to think about his life and decide that selling death sticks is a perfectly fine business to be in. yeah they do exactly what they say, but also more beyond that. rey just told the guy to release her restraints and leave the room (and then drop his gun). if people who get mind-tricked only do exactly as they're told, wouldn't the stormtrooper be wondering about his actions out loud or immediately alert security once he left the room? it's not like rey told him not to consider her a threat or not to tell anyone, but Kylo doesn't know she's gone until he finds the empty chair the craig trooper didn't just do what she told him to do, but then he hosed off to do *some other duty* and *not tell anyone* what happened. why didn't he return to his assigned post of guarding rey? my whole point is that mind-tricked people clearly do way more than *exactly* what was told to them, which implies there's a certain level of intent implied in a jedi mind trick
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Jan 1, 2016 00:35
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Barudak posted:I'm not really sure where you're getting the idea she's supposed to be specialer than everyone else. The only force powers she shows off in the film is pulling a Lightsaber to herself (with assistance from Kylo Ren), resisting Kylo Ren, mind-tricking a storm trooper after multiple attempts, and having a force vision pushed on her. Nobody tells her she has a special destiny, she's not integral to anybody's grand plans, she's just a good mechanic along for the ride as far as everybody but Maz is concerned. Each one on it's own isn't too big a deal, but she definitely seems to tap into the Force better than the previous two "nascent Jedi protagonists with a special destiny" did, as she accesses more of those powers than either of them did in their first movie. But even that alone wouldn't be enough, it's the fact that the Force is crying out to her, desperately trying to get that lightsaber into her hands and showing her visions of significant events in the past. Hell, she even hears Obi-Wan whisper to her despite the fact that they never met before. And considering Anakin and Luke are the chosen one and the son of the chosen one, if she's outshining them and the Force takes a greater interest in her than it did in them, I would imagine none of the random Jedi in the prequels experienced anything like this either.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:36
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Just seeing it in imax it was fun to hear the Force Sound in that scene. It didn't come through in my normal theatre.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:37
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You are begging the question by positing that she is better at stage x than anyone else.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:39
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That's not how the Force works!
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Jan 1, 2016 00:40
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Waffles Inc. posted:"you want to go home and rethink your life" to "you want to forget about what you saw and wait for your family here on Jakku" I'm not sure how different those two things are, but the idea that the latter happened is contradicted by child Rey crying in protest when she's left behind with Unkar. Mind-Tricked people generally act fuzzy-headed and are decidedly unemotional during the experience.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:41
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Beeez posted:Each one on it's own isn't too big a deal, but she definitely seems to tap into the Force better than the previous two "nascent Jedi protagonists with a special destiny" did, as she accesses more of those powers than either of them did in their first movie. But even that alone wouldn't be enough, it's the fact that the Force is crying out to her, desperately trying to get that lightsaber into her hands and showing her visions of significant events in the past. Hell, she even hears Obi-Wan whisper to her despite the fact that they never met before. And considering Anakin and Luke are the chosen one and the son of the chosen one, if she's outshining them and the Force takes a greater interest in her than it did in them, I would imagine none of the random Jedi in the prequels experienced anything like this either. Anakin is a nine year old human cold who defeats decades battle hardened podracers in a sort where only aliens have the dexterity and reflexes to survive, then singlehandedly destroys a battle droid fleet ship.
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Jan 1, 2016 00:42
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I figured mind tricked people just parsed it as a commanding statement in natural language rather than some beep boop computer-man hyper-precise logician bullshit. Putting the idea in their head, you might say, rather than literally issuing a command. Since trooper Bond thought it was all his own idea, he just wandered off. He probably got in deep poo poo later - would've felt like the planet blew up!
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Jan 1, 2016 00:43
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TheMaestroso posted:I'm not sure how different those two things are, but the idea that the latter happened is contradicted by child Rey crying in protest when she's left behind with Unkar. Mind-Tricked people generally act fuzzy-headed and are decidedly unemotional during the experience. super good point actually--you're totally right about that. if there's any mind-wiping happening (probably not), i guess it would've been *only* about kylo's school shooting
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Jan 1, 2016 00:44
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greatn posted:Anakin is a nine year old human cold who defeats decades battle hardened podracers in a sort where only aliens have the dexterity and reflexes to survive, then singlehandedly destroys a battle droid fleet ship. (R2 did the later one.)
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Jan 1, 2016 00:44
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Beeez posted:Each one on it's own isn't too big a deal, but she definitely seems to tap into the Force better than the previous two "nascent Jedi protagonists with a special destiny" did, as she accesses more of those powers than either of them did in their first movie. But even that alone wouldn't be enough, it's the fact that the Force is crying out to her, desperately trying to get that lightsaber into her hands and showing her visions of significant events in the past. Hell, she even hears Obi-Wan whisper to her despite the fact that they never met before. And considering Anakin and Luke are the chosen one and the son of the chosen one, if she's outshining them and the Force takes a greater interest in her than it did in them, I would imagine none of the random Jedi in the prequels experienced anything like this either. Luke blows up the Death Star with the power of the force; not to mention being able to both see without using his eyes and blocking blaster bolts with a lightsaber in his very first outing. Like, literally, the battle-station pales in comparison to the power of the force. This is without also touching all the stuff Anakin gets up to with the force in his first showing. If anything, Rey is less "powerful" and faces smaller challenges than the previous force user protagonists faced in their initial films. Hell, even her force vision is way less personal*. *Personalness of force vision subject to change depending on subsequent films
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Jan 1, 2016 00:49
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