Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

resistentialism posted:

So what did I do that the game won't auto target a bunch of kind of enemies like statues and flying weapons? Or is something messed up in trunk?

Can you rephrase?

# ? Jan 1, 2016 02:52

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 11:11

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

When I cast an offensive spell it won't automatically put the cursor on ice statues, flying weapons, elementals. Elves it finds just fine.

Haven't left elf yet to see what else.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 02:56

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Curse Skulls have the same bug.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 03:00

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Scaramouche posted:

Any tips on an Octopus Monk? I still haven't got one past D4 (basically Ogre=splat). I'm hoarding wands and throwables but not sure what else. This is how I'm doing it:
- Skills: Unarmed *, Dodging +, Stealth +, Fighting +
- Take Dex always on skillups
- Take Oka (in the hopes of getting good hat) as god

Is there a better way that I'm missing? 8 rings has been basically useless since I haven't found more than one in about 10 splats so far. I'm also thinking down the road, go for transmutation > blade hands?

Also kudos to all of you who are doing new years the cool way, e.g. playing roguelikes

EDIT-Just found a buckler, worth it? Do I lose an unarmed melee attack/constrict by having it? Also related I guess, is there a weapon I should be shooting for or just ride unarmed all the way

Cheibriados is a very good god choice for OpMo, IMO. Your early game survival relies more on being able to overpower enemies before they do too much damage. Thankfully this isn't too hard due to Chei's stat boost increasing your unarmed damage. Once you get started you can start branching off into magic and/or invocations so you can slouch your problems away.

I like taking strength over dex because strength affects constriction damage and I'm greedy like that, but dex affect constriction chance and EV so really it's up to you. Crawl's not very transparent when it comes to these things unfortunately.

You can constrict stuff with a shield, you just lose your offhand attack. This is a good tradeoff since you're not going to find much else to boost your survivability early on.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 03:24

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Scaramouche posted:

Any tips on an Octopus Monk? I still haven't got one past D4 (basically Ogre=splat). I'm hoarding wands and throwables but not sure what else. This is how I'm doing it:
- Skills: Unarmed *, Dodging +, Stealth +, Fighting +
- Take Dex always on skillups
- Take Oka (in the hopes of getting good hat) as god

Is there a better way that I'm missing? 8 rings has been basically useless since I haven't found more than one in about 10 splats so far. I'm also thinking down the road, go for transmutation > blade hands?

Also kudos to all of you who are doing new years the cool way, e.g. playing roguelikes

EDIT-Just found a buckler, worth it? Do I lose an unarmed melee attack/constrict by having it? Also related I guess, is there a weapon I should be shooting for or just ride unarmed all the way

My advice is to play OpTm instead.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 03:29

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Or better yet go OpIE and quickly hybridize with Ozo's Armour.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 03:31

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

but it doesn't let you turn your tentacles into knives

# ? Jan 1, 2016 03:33

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Thanks for the advice so far guys. I'll take the Strength=Constrict and the Chei stuff into account.

Some further reading indicates that buckler/shield is Always Worth It for Oc so my gut feel on that one seems to have worked out.

Have a guy the farthest I've ever got with OcMo, currently on D11 and just found Orc. I think the only reason this guy is still around is because I found Oka on D2 and was able to get Heroism online fast. Still having super lovely ring luck, have only found +Dex so far, which doesn't suck obviously but was hoping for more.

One of the takeaways I've found is that because Oc have pretty average skill apts that it's not too harmful to have a less tight focus on skilling. For example I've got sling, shield, and evo up to 5 which I normally wouldn't do on a more skill hungry character. That evo could come in handy though, since I found a +0 Iron Rod that I think is pushing me towards trying Orc 1-3.

Oka Heroism/Finesse + High unarmed + 8 tentacles is doing a lot more than I thought too; killed a vault full of giants/cyclopes with that when I thought I was dead meat.

Been lucky with purp as well, getting blue scales, bone plates, blink, fur, and strong +2. Downsides being blurry vision and wild magic 2 (so much for bladehands!).

Once this guy splats I'll start trying Chei, never done it but the attribute ups, combined with stealth/slow seem like it'd be synergistic. Problem being I've only gotten to an altar/temple once out of the 20 tries so far so I think I've got to strategize early-early game a bit better. Going to train the hell out of Evo for that Iron Rod and dive into Orc and hope for jewelry stores.

Any input on a possible weapon? Oc skills are pretty generous so I figured I'd grab one and train it if I found a good >+8 floor artifact single hander, but so far it's just unarmed (at 11)

Follow up question: Is there a point I should ditch stealth or is it worth investing in all the way? Currently at 11 as well ('extremely stealthy') with no other gear.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 03:55

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

Playing this game on a phone is pretty squintastic but it's all I've got, welp.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 06:16

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Scaramouche posted:

Thanks for the advice so far guys. I'll take the Strength=Constrict and the Chei stuff into account.

Some further reading indicates that buckler/shield is Always Worth It for Oc so my gut feel on that one seems to have worked out.

Have a guy the farthest I've ever got with OcMo, currently on D11 and just found Orc. I think the only reason this guy is still around is because I found Oka on D2 and was able to get Heroism online fast. Still having super lovely ring luck, have only found +Dex so far, which doesn't suck obviously but was hoping for more.

One of the takeaways I've found is that because Oc have pretty average skill apts that it's not too harmful to have a less tight focus on skilling. For example I've got sling, shield, and evo up to 5 which I normally wouldn't do on a more skill hungry character. That evo could come in handy though, since I found a +0 Iron Rod that I think is pushing me towards trying Orc 1-3.

Oka Heroism/Finesse + High unarmed + 8 tentacles is doing a lot more than I thought too; killed a vault full of giants/cyclopes with that when I thought I was dead meat.

Been lucky with purp as well, getting blue scales, bone plates, blink, fur, and strong +2. Downsides being blurry vision and wild magic 2 (so much for bladehands!).

Once this guy splats I'll start trying Chei, never done it but the attribute ups, combined with stealth/slow seem like it'd be synergistic. Problem being I've only gotten to an altar/temple once out of the 20 tries so far so I think I've got to strategize early-early game a bit better. Going to train the hell out of Evo for that Iron Rod and dive into Orc and hope for jewelry stores.

Any input on a possible weapon? Oc skills are pretty generous so I figured I'd grab one and train it if I found a good >+8 floor artifact single hander, but so far it's just unarmed (at 11)

Follow up question: Is there a point I should ditch stealth or is it worth investing in all the way? Currently at 11 as well ('extremely stealthy') with no other gear.

Indeed shields are definitely worth it for an octopode, especially if you're going unarmed. They are the only species that doesn't lose the offhand attack, so definitely use a buckler. You don't have to get it up to 4-5 shields right away, but if you find one, you should use it.

Be careful spreading your skills out too much, what you've done is probably a good idea, but you really need fighting and dodging to survive and unarmed heavily rewards deep investment. Okawaru is helping you out here a lot with heroism, but if you go Chei, I wouldn't recommend doing that. You definitely want very high dodging on Chei characters to leverage your excellent dex.

I will second OpIE as a good "melee" start for an octopode. It's the only way to actually have AC in the early game. Op still sucks no matter what in the early game, but IE is one of the strongest backgrounds to begin with and helps cover your biggest weakness. OpIE of Chei is good fun, but I recommend holding off on worshiping Chei until D: 7 or so. An early altar will probably get you killed by the first ogre you see.

Don't switch weapon types! If you've already trained far into unarmed, stay with unarmed. The only reason to switch would be if you found a ridiculous +13 bardiche of speed or something and even then more for the novelty of using it than the fact that it would be optimal play. A weapon skill will do absolutely nothing for you, you'll do more damage in the long run with unarmed anyway, and you'll start doing a whole lot more as soon as you get some decent transmutations.

As far as stats go, I'd say dex is better with Oka because heroism gives you high dodging, which benefits from high dex. If you go Chei, your dex will be high enough to hit the point of diminishing returns (24 dex), so str is arguably better. It's certainly more fun. The best octopode is one that worships Chei, wears a bunch of +str rings and raises str every time, then casts dragon form. Maximum overkill. You will one shot orbs of fire, greater mummies and hell sentinels with ease.

Stealth has diminishing returns in effectiveness relative to the cost of investment. 11 stealth is "enough" for most characters. More stealth is helpful, but probably not worth it most of the time.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 07:06

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

The correct amount of stealth if you're not stabbing guys is 0. Put all that skill into unarmed or dodging or invocations or fighting or evocations or throwing instead.

Especially with Op, since their natural stealth mut gives them more than they need for regular builds.

And yeah, don't switch to a weapon. Unarmed is incredibly strong and easily rivals any weapon, with one trade off being that you need to invest a lot of xp to make it powerful. Training it early then switching to a weapon misses the point entirely.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 12:49

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Darox posted:

The correct amount of stealth if you're not stabbing guys is 0. Put all that skill into unarmed or dodging or invocations or fighting or evocations or throwing instead.

Especially with Op, since their natural stealth mut gives them more than they need for regular builds.

And yeah, don't switch to a weapon. Unarmed is incredibly strong and easily rivals any weapon, with one trade off being that you need to invest a lot of xp to make it powerful. Training it early then switching to a weapon misses the point entirely.

Well, I wouldn't say that about Stealth. It is really useful to dabble in (up to 10-12) if you aren't wearing heavy body armor. Being able to start fights when you want and lose enemies around corners when running away is very powerful. Along the same lines, Stealth makes the Abyss much more survivable.

Basically, as long as you aren't in heavy armor, treat Stealth as a defense like Dodging/Armor/Shields when figuring out what to skill next, especially on Octopodes who won't be wearing body armor anyway.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 14:36

HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

What are some good options for a Ghoul Monk?
I was thinking Kiku for corpse delivery and necromancy, with zombie hordes playing an assisting melee role to my claws. However, I don't know how long-term viable this is - ghouls have crappy int so better spells might be out of reach, and needing to split XP between Necromacy and Unarmed Combat doesn't leave much for defensive skills. No breakpoints for UC means keeping it on until it's really high, too.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 17:59

Dee Ehm: Apr 10, 2014

EightFlyingCars posted:

Playing this game on a phone is pretty squintastic but it's all I've got, welp.

I know your pain, my friend. But its the best game on phone I've got.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 18:24

Angry Diplomat: Nov 7, 2009; Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

HisMajestyBOB posted:

What are some good options for a Ghoul Monk?
I was thinking Kiku for corpse delivery and necromancy, with zombie hordes playing an assisting melee role to my claws. However, I don't know how long-term viable this is - ghouls have crappy int so better spells might be out of reach, and needing to split XP between Necromacy and Unarmed Combat doesn't leave much for defensive skills. No breakpoints for UC means keeping it on until it's really high, too.

If you're on trunk, Pakellas is actually good as gently caress for rounding out your offensive and survival toolbox. If not, why not consider Makhleb? You'll instantly gain access to some nuke invocations, you get HP on kills to make up for ghoul regen, and some hostile demon summons will be less dangerous due to your total lack of fucks given about negative energy.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 19:14

meatpath: Feb 13, 2003

Is CSZO down/acting up for anyone else?

nvm, seems to be back up

meatpath fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jan 1, 2016

# ? Jan 1, 2016 19:25

HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

Playing .17, and just won with a DDFi of Pakellas so I wanted to try something different.
Makhleb is always good, but wanted a god I haven't tried before, so maybe Kiku, Yred, Lugonu, or Ru.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 19:28

Dee Ehm: Apr 10, 2014

I'm sort of struggling since I have 8 species and 8 gods down (and six of the best backgrounds) and I'm starting to struggle picking combinations that aren't repeating to keep me interested... and are enjoyable themselves as well.

There's a lot of 'eh, Okawaru / Makhleb / Ashenzari / Trog etc. would be strong, but I've already done that.' But then k look at Sif Muna / Elyvilon / Fedhas and company and its hard to get excited about those ones.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 20:19

stay depressed: Sep 30, 2003; by zen death robot

fedhas is cool, fun and flexible you should give it a shot

# ? Jan 1, 2016 20:30

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

Dee Ehm posted:

I know your pain, my friend. But its the best game on phone I've got.

There are a bunch of really good stripped-down rogue like style games for phones like 868-HACK that are insanely great, but sometimes you gotta have the full fat variety.

Even if it looks like this

# ? Jan 1, 2016 20:51

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

resistentialism posted:

When I cast an offensive spell it won't automatically put the cursor on ice statues, flying weapons, elementals. Elves it finds just fine.

Haven't left elf yet to see what else.

cheetah7071 posted:

Curse Skulls have the same bug.

It's anything with magic immunity. Hunted down the bug, and it should be fixed in the next build - thanks!

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:12

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

HisMajestyBOB posted:

What are some good options for a Ghoul Monk?
I was thinking Kiku for corpse delivery and necromancy, with zombie hordes playing an assisting melee role to my claws. However, I don't know how long-term viable this is - ghouls have crappy int so better spells might be out of reach, and needing to split XP between Necromacy and Unarmed Combat doesn't leave much for defensive skills. No breakpoints for UC means keeping it on until it's really high, too.

Go chei and melee everything to death, maybe learn some spells later.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 21:47

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

When in doubt, worship Chei.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:24

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I feel like they changed undead stat gain at some point to make it less bad but chei is still a good choice for ghoul because chei is secretly really strong, and ghoul are already good at unarmed and chei unarmed owns.

also don't ever go kiku to deliver yourself ghoul food, it's 100% not needed you get plenty of food as a ghoul even in extended

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:29

Matlock Birthmark: Sep 24, 2005; I wanted this to happen!!; Soiled Meat

The correct answer here is Xom. Because Xom.

_{Don't actually do that.}

# ? Jan 1, 2016 22:33

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

PleasingFungus posted:

It's anything with magic immunity. Hunted down the bug, and it should be fixed in the next build - thanks!

Cool thanks.

# ? Jan 1, 2016 23:30

HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

Went with Yred because I'd done Chei before.
Not bad except for no undead slaves before Lair:1 and I died to Yaks. Will try again.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 01:08

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

On the subject of ghoul builds, completely ignoring spellcasting in favor of focusing on evocations can work just fine. You can worship nem to get card decks and throw on a heavy suit of armour. Shadow dragon is nice for this since it lets you work with the ghouls good stealth aptitude without sacrificing durability.

EDIT: And obviously if you're playing trunk you could use Pakellas as well

# ? Jan 2, 2016 02:09

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Devs Ruin Everything Again. Why even play Beogh chars now?

# ? Jan 2, 2016 06:50

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

a brutal nerf

# ? Jan 2, 2016 13:24

ZeeToo: Feb 20, 2008; I'm a kitty!

Christmas is also over.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 18:05

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

I've been really liking my attempts to play a melee tengu who eventually grabs necromutation and maybe some other cool spells, but I'm having trouble finding the right early-mid melee build that doesn't result in my helmetless, shoeless, -20% hp rear end getting splatted. Any recommendations? Trunk, if it matters.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 18:17

Dee Ehm: Apr 10, 2014

EightFlyingCars posted:

There are a bunch of really good stripped-down rogue like style games for phones like 868-HACK that are insanely great, but sometimes you gotta have the full fat variety.

Even if it looks like this

If you're on Android, there's a download on the main site that links to webtiles so you can play with all the trimmings.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 18:45

Zarick: Dec 28, 2004

Dee Ehm posted:

If you're on Android, there's a download on the main site that links to webtiles so you can play with all the trimmings.

There's an offline tiles one for Android too it looks like, but it's still running 0.16. If they update it to 0.17 I'd really like that, because I can't play the online one on the train thanks to tunnels.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 19:15

WereVolvo: Jan 12, 2011; "Fun" is not a design goal.

gently caress YES. Demigod ascended. So glad I don't have to play that species anymore after splatting so many promising ones.

Playing DgTm, I've learned to love Sticks to Snakes. Need to mob and poison something big and scary? Need to get away fast and create a distraction to ensure your getaway? Snakesticks is there for you. It saved my rear end so many times, especially in Abyss after a random ogre mage decided I needed a holiday. Learned Statue Form, but unusually I didn't rely on it during the endgame - I had so much slaying from Gauntlets of War and my jewelry already, and I didn't need the AC boost either. Besides, I didn't feel comfortable with the movement penalty without having Chei emergency buttons to back me up.

Now for the victory lap, last remaining species on my list is Tengu. Gonna learn to hate that too :v:

# ? Jan 2, 2016 21:22

Superterranean: May 3, 2005; after we lit this one, nothing was ever the same

WereVolvo posted:

gently caress YES. Demigod ascended. So glad I don't have to play that species anymore after splatting so many promising ones.

Playing DgTm, I've learned to love Sticks to Snakes. Need to mob and poison something big and scary? Need to get away fast and create a distraction to ensure your getaway? Snakesticks is there for you. It saved my rear end so many times, especially in Abyss after a random ogre mage decided I needed a holiday. Learned Statue Form, but unusually I didn't rely on it during the endgame - I had so much slaying from Gauntlets of War and my jewelry already, and I didn't need the AC boost either. Besides, I didn't feel comfortable with the movement penalty without having Chei emergency buttons to back me up.

Now for the victory lap, last remaining species on my list is Tengu. Gonna learn to hate that too

Tengu is easy. at XL9 you get the ability to Run Away like a centaur for ~3MP, and at XL14 you get perma-flying. Combine with +3 conj aptitudes and you have a blaster who can almost win the game with just the Book of Conjurations. (not that you'll need to, since you can also wreck face with melee if you want - +0 apts in everything.) The downside, of course, is low HP - but again, if you've won Fe and Sp already, you will have no problems.

# ? Jan 2, 2016 21:44

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Tengu actually fly at XL5.

e: just remember to turn it off for titans and spriggan air mages

# ? Jan 3, 2016 03:04

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

cheetah7071 posted:

Tengu actually fly at XL5.

e: just remember to turn it off for titans and spriggan air mages

Also Gastronok and wind drakes.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 05:03

Locke Dunnegan: Apr 25, 2005; Respectable Bespectacled Receptacle

DsWn aren't too bad when you start with the Book of Geomancy, find a Staff of Earth, and then find a Book of Earth before XL 12. Oh, and Spines 3 before XL 12 as well. :getin:

Almost went Vehumet but I'm fixated on winning at least a 3-rune on Ash for once, and it's turning out to be a solid decision.

https://here

code:

Locke37 the Geomancer (Demonspawn Wanderer)        Turns: 25437, Time: 02:36:20

Health: 88/88      AC: 15    Str: 13    XL:     14   Next: 50%
Magic:  26/26      EV: 19    Int: 24    God:    Ashenzari [******]
Gold:   1489       SH:  9    Dex: 17    Spells: 7 memorised, 7 levels left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis +    a - staff of earth (curse)
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    u - +1 leather armour of Valour {+Fly rF+} (curse)
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    q - +1 buckler (curse)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    E - +1 hat of the Black Moon {MR- Int+4 Dex+4} (curse)
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    D - +2 cloak (curse)
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    w - +0 pair of gloves of Calculation {*Corrode +Inv rElec rC+++} (curse)
SustAt .          Harm     +    h - +2 pair of boots (curse)
MR     .....      Clarity  +    H - amulet of harm
Stlth  ++++......               X - ring of fire (curse)
                                v - ring of protection from cold (curse)

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: hooves 1, large bone plates 2, blink, clever 1, frail 1, nightstalker 1,
sense surroundings 1, spiny 3
a: Blink, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility,
Evoke Flight

   Skills:
 + Level 5.2 Fighting
 - Level 8.0(11.0) Staves
 + Level 0.8 Armour
 + Level 5.9(10.4) Dodging
 - Level 1.7(4.8) Stealth
 - Level 2.2(4.6) Shields
 - Level 8.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 10.8(13.5) Conjurations
   Level 1.0(2.7) Charms
 - Level 5.0(8.0) Necromancy
 - Level 3.1(5.7) Transmutations
 - Level 5.2(8.2) Fire Magic
 + Level 12.9(15.5) Earth Magic
 - Level 9.0(13.3) Evocations

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
b - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
d - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          2    None
e - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          4    ##.....
f - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   1%          5    #####..
g - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   3%          6    ######.

Just found a Book of Battle, and I have a few spell levels around so I'm thinking of picking up Regeneration and something else. Does Spectral Weapon work with the bonus damage of a staff of earth? I doubt I'll pick it up given I have Haste, DMsl, and Shatter available, not to mention taking massive damage from AoEs given the amulet of harm, but I'd like to know for future reference. Also, thanks to enhanced Stoneskin, I'm running around with more AC than EV. Earth Magic really works wonders when combined with the spiny mutation, though given how I had to flee from a single dire elephant in the Lair:8 vault, I'll need to find something that works well on high AC targets. Any ideas?

EDIT: Almost forgot that I drank-ID'd a pot of mut early on, got Wild Magic and Int+2, then later on accidentally drank-ID'd a cure mut because I thought I already had them ID'd. Drank another mut pot later and got Int+2 and +Blink so it's not all bad, but I'm going to miss the 1.5 enhancer levels.

Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jan 3, 2016

# ? Jan 3, 2016 06:45

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 11:11

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Spectral Weapon does not work with the Staff of Earth bonus damage. Only your weapon skill and the base weapon type will deal the damage.

Typically for high AC targets that you aren't spamming Shatter on (because they're flying and taking reduced damage) you're throwing Iron Shot or Lehudib's Crystal Spears at since they tend to have lovely EV in return. Otherwise there's also taking a secondary level 9 spell (Glaciate would not be a bad choice given you're a Nightstalker), rods, and elemental evokers.

# ? Jan 3, 2016 07:02

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