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My favorite bit of tactical realism was all the people in the theater demanding a reason why Han Solo was physically close enough to his son that he could be attacked by a lightsaber. Like that was the most important thing to them - not a father trying to reach his son, but that he should do it in the optimal way in case it doesn't work.
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Jan 2, 2016 22:31
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computer parts posted:I still think it was a 🖕. Nah, BB-8 is Finn's brobot, that's why he told Rey the coordinates of the Resistance base. He's the best wingman.
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Jan 2, 2016 22:33
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Timeless Appeal posted:
This is an impressive achievement since the diner actually physically existed.
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Jan 2, 2016 22:38
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Soggy Cereal posted:Though this does bring up a good point. It seems like CGI is criticized not always because it looks bad, but because people know it's there. The critic feels smarter than the movie because they detected the effect and know "how they did it." Which you can do even more easily with puppets and props. I remember people complaining about the use of CGI in Jackson's King Kong. Not just whether or not there were flaws, just that it was used, and that the movie used so many green screen sets. It just seems ridiculous when the original film did as much as it did to push the limits of special effects, and just like the remake composited its actors onto sets created with special effects. Practical effects are great and have their charm, but critics of CGI have a tendency to overstate their superiority and ignore the ways CGI is better. Whenever people criticize the use of CGI now it just feels anachronistic. It's good and fun when practical effects are used, but not because CGI is bad.
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Jan 2, 2016 22:52
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:I remember people complaining about the use of CGI in Jackson's King Kong. Not just whether or not there were flaws, just that it was used, and that the movie used so many green screen sets. It just seems ridiculous when the original film did as much as it did to push the limits of special effects, and just like the remake composited its actors onto sets created with special effects. To be fair looking at some clips of the PT recently it really really looked like a FMV game to me.
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Jan 2, 2016 22:55
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computer parts posted:I don't think so, the Jedi Order is shown quite quickly to be hypocrites and less than true believers (for the first, they wear the poor robes of a monk while running around in a gaudy tower; for the second they use a computer to determine their Messiah instead of their own faith). The feudalism overtones are about as strong as the fake-poverty overtones were at the time. Anyway, The superior middle path that Vader was meant to embody was forgotten or misinterpreted in two ways. This is reflected not only in the war between the First Order and the Resistance - distinguished respectively from the old Empire and the new Republic - but also in the disagreement between Vader's successors, Kylo Ren and Luke. Neither of them knew Anakin. We all know how Kylo is so desperate to fulfill his destiny that he'll willingly get played by the likes of Snoke in order to cargo-cult his way to messiah-hood. Meanwhile Luke went looking for "the first Jedi temple" - went in search of clues from the past, hoping for some understanding of what his father went through that turned him into a servant of evil. Implying he doesn't know. Luke learned the compassion half of the lesson, of course, so he won't fight Kylo. He doesn't correspond to the Resistance (if anything he's the Republic in this scenario, what with the unwillingness to fight and the Resistance's perceived need for support). Rey, rather, occupies that role. All she's really motivated by is the abhorrent consequences of Kylo's path. That's the rift between them. But it ends with her going to Luke. Whatever she hopes to learn from him, what she'll actually get is some context about what Vader's deal was. She's got Anakin's lightsaber; she's holding the other half of his legacy; although she's offering that legacy back to Luke, it's Rey who will end up with it, on account of how mentorship works. Reconciliation between Kylo Ren and Rey, in other words, represents the consummation of Darth Vader's ideals. That's what's being set up here. And that ultimately means the Resistance are indeed reactionary naifs, who like the Jedi are not automatically good just because their enemies are evil. (You could say the whole war is happening because nobody learned anything from the prequels.)
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Jan 2, 2016 23:01
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Gorelab posted:To be fair looking at some clips of the PT recently it really really looked like a FMV game to me. Oh yeah, some of it looks really bad and weird. I give them a pass on that these days though, because those movies being made the way they were helped push special effects to where they are now. To continue the King Kong comparison, King Kong and its effects, even though they seem incredibly dated now, paved the way for the improved effects in Mighty Joe Young and Jason and the Argonauts, and before that The Lost World paved the way for King Kong. I'm not a big prequel fan, and the prequels weren't the only movies to help push effects forward, but if they helped lead to the better effects in movies like Guardians of the Galaxy and Interstellar, I really can't fault Lucas for that decision. I think that's a net benefit to filmmaking as a whole. I don't think the critics of the films would judge them as harshly for using CGI if they liked the movies better. ThePlague-Daemon fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 23:08
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:Oh yeah, some of it looks really bad and weird. I give them a pass on that these days though, because those movies being made the way they were helped push special effects to where they are now. To continue the King Kong comparison, King Kong and its effects, even though they seem incredibly dated now, paved the way for the improved effects in Mighty Joe Young and Jason and the Argonauts, and before that The Lost World paved the way for King Kong. I'm not a big prequel fan, and the prequels weren't the only movies to help push effects forward, but if they helped lead to the better effects in movies like Guardians of the Galaxy and Interstellar, I really can't fault Lucas for that decision. I think that's a net benefit to filmmaking as a whole.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:12
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SMG generally makes a lot of good points and can be fun to talk to, but like any chatbot is limited by some basic fundamental programming flaws. One is a limited database of sources. SMG was loaded with a flash drive containing the complete works of Zizek and a few other works Zizek is derivative of, but that's about it. SMG also operates under tha aprameter where a movie's "Goodness" depends on how mkuch SMG can read the film to align with Full Communism Now/Catholic Mysticism. this cannot be reprogrammed. Since not every movie is about F.C.N. and not everyone else's judgement of art is how perfectly it operates as propoganda for the specific political system endorsed by the viewer, this leads to conflict. SMG is also not actually very good at debating, but still makes good points, but a lot of the time, unless you've engaged certain dialogue sub-branches, SMG will be unable to parse your meaning and will resort to other statements in order to provke a response whein you might somehow activate one of those dialogue trees. SMG does not feel emotion, does not understand the more empathetic and human aprts of art, the reasons for watching art etc. SMG does not handle human nuance very well. Ideological nuance somewhat, the malleability of film very much, but SMG doesn't understand how you can just "like" a character unless the character represents Stalin/the Holy spirit. keep this in mind as you operate your new Truthful Posting Webbot chat machine that totally doesn't exist.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:it's a bit trickier than that, because Ren knows that both the First Order and the Resistance are bad. He's trapped in the false choice between those two, and that's why he ultimately comes across as a tragic figure. Lmao you are so full of poo poo
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Jan 2, 2016 23:22
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Gorelab posted:To be fair looking at some clips of the PT recently it really really looked like a FMV game to me. In that case, the major flaw is more "making a movie in the early 2000s". Eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE4ZOYVKwfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nX0100wUB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYGWG2_PB_Q
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Jan 2, 2016 23:25
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Speaking honestly: I think that part of the reason CGI is so inveighed against by Disney-Lucasfilm-ILM is to confuse their own participation in an animation wage-fixing scandal and provide excuses for why CGI artists do not DESERVE that money. http://www.cartoonbrew.com/law/judge-rules-disney-pixar-dreamworks-sony-and-other-studios-cant-evade-wage-fixing-lawsuit-118129.html
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Jan 2, 2016 23:29
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Corek posted:Speaking honestly: I think that part of the reason CGI is so inveighed against by Disney-Lucasfilm-ILM is to confuse their own participation in an animation wage-fixing scandal and provide excuses for why CGI artists do not DESERVE that money. Agreed 100%. Not THE reason but a very big reason.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:40
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Robotnik Nudes posted:SMG generally makes a lot of good points and can be fun to talk to, but like any chatbot is limited by some basic fundamental programming flaws. One is a limited database of sources. SMG was loaded with a flash drive containing the complete works of Zizek and a few other works Zizek is derivative of, but that's about it. I like the guy who runs the laundromat across the street, but I would not like for him to be king of earth. Also: I am not a Catholic, I am not a Stalinist, I am not emotionless... You are describing a strange, detailed, fantasy.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:49
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Watching ESB now the only thing I see is Vader as a pure angel of justice and peace. He's quite remarkable in how little he cares for the Empire.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:50
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euphronius posted:Watching ESB now the only thing I see is Vader as a pure angel of justice and peace. He's quite remarkable in how little he cares for the Empire. Justice certainly, but I wouldn't say 'peace'.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:51
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Fair enough. This harkens back to the argument made in the first RLM video; film-making is a very collaborative effort, and it's important to reach agreements or compromises between the director and actors to create three-dimensional characters. You have to pull the actors into your movie before you can pull the audience. In the original trilogy, Lucas doesn't have the momentum of immense success to passively silence opposing opinions; this isn't to say that he shouted down all contributions or anything, simply that it was easier to stare 70's Lucas in the eyes and say "I dont think this works." than to stare millionaire modern Lucas and do the same. As a result, you don't see many characters in the PT really dive into their roles. If pressed I'd say Palpatine, Jar Jar's mocap and VA, and Kenobi are played with enthusiasm for their characters (and Mace Windu, because Sam Jackson is an amazing actor who will jump into anything; you can really tell that all his lines are delivered while restrained from displaying more energy for his role). Everyone just kind of talks their lines out, and fumble on planned emotional moments. It works for the perception of jedi as creepy emotionless cultists, but it doesn't do much for the audience. I can imagine a different actor playing Anakin, Qui-gon, and Padme. I can't imagine a Luke without Hamill, Han without Ford, Finn without Boyega, or Rey without Driver. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 23:52
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And if all if that works for your reading of the PT then thats cool, just remember that posters have no requirement to like your reading anymore than they do to guess the director's intent.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:55
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You will hate me for saying this but flat, emotionless aspects were the point for many characters. Why was Palpatine so alive and interesting. Why was Obi Wan asleep until Mustafar.
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Jan 2, 2016 23:56
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Neurolimal posted:This harkens back to the argument made in the first RLM video; film-making is a very collaborative effort, and it's important to reach agreements or compromises between the director and actors to create three-dimensional characters. You have to pull the actors into your movie before you can pull the audience. No one was worse for just talking out the lines than Portman. I'm pretty sure if the PT had been the first films she had made, she would never be in any others.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:00
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Hmm yeah a gorgeous young talented actor would have been doomed.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:01
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The George Lucas figure who paralyzes with hypnotic powers, and then drains 'energy', does not actually exist.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:02
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euphronius posted:You will hate me for saying this but flat, emotionless aspects were the point for many characters. I adressed this, but personally: I dont care why he's an emotionless board, the movie doesnt make me interested in why he's an emotionless board. The thing that hits me most in AOTC is that there is no real likable protagonist/audience insert. Kenobi is so reserved and mainly frowns at Anakin, Anakin is a mass murdering freak, palpatine in his chancellor guise is just as stale, padme feels more like a setpiece or obligation than a character. I just dont care about any of them, and as a result I dont care about the fall of the republic to the exploitation of emotion and spoopy magic. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 3, 2016 |
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Jan 3, 2016 00:05
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euphronius posted:You will hate me for saying this but flat, emotionless aspects were the point for many characters. I ain't gonna hate you for having an opinion, but an opinion is all it is. Obi-Wan was probably the least asleep character. He managed to convey supreme confidence rather than boredom, which was more than some managed. If you choose to read the film's in a way that excuses some frankly lacklustre performances, that's fine, but it's not going to fly for everyone.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:06
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Neurolimal posted:I adressed this, but personally: I dont care why he's an emotionless board, the movie doesnt make me interested in why he's an emotionless board. The thing that hits me most in AOTC is that there is no real likable protagonist/audience insert. Kenobi is so reserved and mainly frowns at Anakin, Anakin is a mass murdering freak, palpatine in his chancellor guise is just as stale, padme feels more like a setpiece or obligation than a character. I just dont care about any of them, and as a result I dont care about the fall of the republic to the exploitation of emotion and spoopy magic. Palpatine is the likable protagonist. I thought I already said this.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:11
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euphronius posted:Palpatine is the likable protagonist. I thought I already said this. So, the other mass-murderer who also blockades and mires the galaxy in conflict, and eventually becomes Super Space Satan. And has relatively little screentime before ROTS. Okay.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:14
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Neurolimal posted:So, the other mass-murderer who also blockades and mires the galaxy in conflict, and eventually becomes Super Space Satan. And has relatively little screentime before ROTS. Okay. Palpatine is true to himself and is the change he wants to see in the universe, that's more than you can say about literally every other character in the PT. Obi-Wan is a guy who unironically says 'only a Sith deals in absolutes' whilst trying to strike down his adopted son
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Jan 3, 2016 00:21
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The prequels have tons of likeable characters - like Yoda, Dexter Jetster, and the battle droids. There's no line delivery in The Force Awakens that's as good as "She can't do that! Shoot her, or something?!"
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Jan 3, 2016 00:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There's no line delivery in The Force Awakens that's as good as "She can't do that! Shoot her, or something?!"
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Jan 3, 2016 00:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The prequels have tons of likeable characters - like Yoda, Dexter Jetster, and the battle droids. So your trolling right???
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Jan 3, 2016 00:34
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Palpatine is true to himself and is the change he wants to see in the universe, that's more than you can say about literally every other character in the PT. Obi-Wan is a guy who unironically says 'only a Sith deals in absolutes' whilst trying to strike down his adopted son Sure, and as poignant a comparison space satan vs. corrupt disinterested elite is to american politics, it still doesn't endear me to either side. I just get a sense of apathy about the entire scenario, followed by regret for watching the film. And as many times as "that's the point!" Is said, I still dont think "alas, this is how the once-great republic falls!" I think "well, that sure was an affair full of jerks I guess"
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Jan 3, 2016 00:35
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Neurolimal posted:And as many times as "that's the point!" Is said, I still dont think "alas, this is how the once-great republic falls!" I think "well, that sure was an affair full of jerks I guess" Serious question, what is your reaction to the broad (right-leaning) acceptance of Donald Trump as a candidate for President?
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Jan 3, 2016 00:37
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Nah he's right. The battle droids rule. Roger roger.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:38
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Steve2911 posted:I'll give you that one. Like it or not, the prequels have powerful imagery and memorable dialogue. That's why people get worked up over them. Force Awakens doesn't have a single "do, or do not" or "only a sith deals in absolutes" or "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate..." or "your lack of faith disturbs me". It has clunky garbage like "as long as there is light, we've got a chance" and "the belonging that you seek is not behind you; it is ahead".
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Jan 3, 2016 00:44
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:No one was worse for just talking out the lines than Portman. I'm pretty sure if the PT had been the first films she had made, she would never be in any others. Kiera Knightly's second film (and first post-puberty) was TPM.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:44
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Prolonged Priapism posted:Serious question, what is your reaction to the broad (right-leaning) acceptance of Donald Trump as a candidate for President? He'll be another George Bush if he wins, the republican party is not going to deport the most conservative minorities in america, if it did make it through congress somehow the entire idea is, in all terms, infeasible in every way. This is without figuring out where we would send them all. He's the latest in a line of Doomsday Clowns, used to energize the right and give the left a reason to support a worthless neoliberal. This is without considering whether or not Trump is just gaming the whole thing, and travels towards the center in the GE. Apparently it's heresy to suggest that a career con-man may not be genuine when gaming a "who can tell as many different lies and promises to as many people as possible" rat race.
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Jan 3, 2016 00:45
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computer parts posted:Kiera Knightly's second film (and first post-puberty) was TPM. But she was paid to act like Portman so it doesn't count
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Jan 3, 2016 00:47
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Neurolimal posted:And as many times as "that's the point!" Is said, I still dont think "alas, this is how the once-great republic falls!" I think "well, that sure was an affair full of jerks I guess" That's actually the point, you're responding correctly. It's like how the point of Breaking Bad isn't "alas, this country has failed the middle class" but "some people are gigantic assholes and only need the right circumstances to become incredible monsters".
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Jan 3, 2016 00:48
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Neurolimal posted:So, the other mass-murderer who also blockades and mires the galaxy in conflict, and eventually becomes Super Space Satan. And has relatively little screentime before ROTS. Okay. I'm assuming your referring to Anakin?
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Jan 3, 2016 00:49
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Neurolimal posted:thoughts Fair enough, and I agree. But my point was that real life politics and demagoguery is exactly as stupid as what we see in the PT. Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Jan 3, 2016 00:50
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