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Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

Operant posted:

Hey! I am Abbadon (guy who makes Kill Six Billion Demons), thanks for checking out my comic/weird RPG hack. The RPG has always been a side project for me to my comic (which consumes most of my time). I chose PbTA to try and write a game in because I love its core game philosophy of consequence and narrative.

I did actually write an earlier version much closer to Dungeon World, but I found that I didn't like the combat flow in that very much. I did include damage die of a sort in this version just so there's a little bit of randomness in the damage and a system to interact with. It's still a glorified harm mechanic. I am a little hesitant to call it final because I feel like it makes the damage a little spiky, and I'm very open to changing things up.

I've thought about re-writing some of the core moves/statistics to be more setting-specific, but I also want to keep it accessible - as much as I liked Apocalypse World (and it's probably my favorite RPG system), it was a royal pain in the rear end having to explain the difference between going aggro and seizing by force.

If you have any feedback or pointers I'm very open to them - it's my first time writing a game system. I decided to write the RPG mainly because of interest.

Hey there! I love your comic. Not so much a fan of this hack though; AW hacks are pretty hard. You're not simulating reality, you're simulating the narrative beats used in the genre's fiction. When I'm just glancing over the basic moves I'm seeing stuff that isn't emulating any particular genre, or is emulating an old-style game engine. Here's some brief thoughts:

Stats: Why so many possible stats? Why are your stats the way they are at all? When you're telling a story about terrible gods, demons and monsters in the ruins of hell or whatever, is the story about Melkor the Magnificent being slightly stronger than Dragar Bearer Of A Thousand Curses? Is anyone in that story not charismatic and powerful?

It's the same reason Dexterity isn't a stat in Apocalypse World, nobody cares if you're a nimble dancer chick or a mountain of muscle, what we care about is if you're a Hard Bastard or not. In the 2012 Dredd movie, Judge Dredd is a Hard Bastard, and the Brainer chick isn't hard at all. It doesn't matter how smart, tough, or nimble Judge Dredd is in comparison to the Brainer chick, he's going to kill everyone because he's a Hard Bastard who scowls for literally the entire movie. That's what makes someone in that genre dangerous. In a different genre, like, say, a dark age setting to take an example, the dude who wins the fight isn't the Hard Bastard, it's the bold and daring hero, so the fighting stat is Bold.

So what are your stats trying to say about the genre, about the fiction? What makes someone Win Fights in this setting? Do people win fights by being strong, or do they win it by being terrifying hosed up demon monsters?

The way I got my head around how to do a *World hack is I put Urban Shadows, Monster Hearts and Apocalypse World on the table side-by-side and I looked at their different philosophies of violence. Apocalypse World says violence is about stuff; you go in with a deliberate plan to get a specific thing and maybe hurt someone along the way. Monster Hearts is about wanting to express your feelings with your body, and blindly lashing out makes you vulnerable and scared. Urban Shadows is about murder, one-sided, instantaneous and brutal. Really think about what you want to say about violence; if you can express it here we might be able to guide you towards putting that into more thematic moves.

Thanqol fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Jan 2, 2016

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paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

In the middle of all this high-minded discourse on the nature of PBTA and its applications, I will lament that I cannot throw some money at the guy who made Masks in exchange for a pdf of its work. I cannot afford to sink the money into a physical book and receiving it would be a problem.

Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

paradoxGentleman posted:

In the middle of all this high-minded discourse on the nature of PBTA and its applications, I will lament that I cannot throw some money at the guy who made Masks in exchange for a pdf of its work. I cannot afford to sink the money into a physical book and receiving it would be a problem.

My Masks playtest games haven't gone particularly well. We can see what they're trying to do but the basic moves don't quite do what you expect or give the results you'd want. There's also crazy indecision on 'powers matter and are woven into my playbook moves' and 'powers don't matter at all and all my playbook moves are social stuff'. They either need to scrap the Nova or scrap the Delinquent; having them both in the same ruleset is really jarring.

Capfalcon
Apr 6, 2012

No Boots on the Ground,
Puny Mortals!

Thanqol posted:

My Masks playtest games haven't gone particularly well. We can see what they're trying to do but the basic moves don't quite do what you expect or give the results you'd want. There's also crazy indecision on 'powers matter and are woven into my playbook moves' and 'powers don't matter at all and all my playbook moves are social stuff'. They either need to scrap the Nova or scrap the Delinquent; having them both in the same ruleset is really jarring.

I don't follow. Personally, I don't really care for the nova, but I don't see how they overlap.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

QuantumNinja posted:

I though it was fine :(

The real innovation in the work is the horse-riding mechanisms, which are actually pretty cool. Based on the failures of past attempts (i.e., Driver playbook in AW), VIncent is trying to get a handle on how to do chase and chase/combat scenes correctly in PbtA, and that's totally worthwhile. What's more, his work is headed in the right direction! That is to say: it's headed in the direction of some of the cyberpunk hacks. (And that's a serious improvement! His previous draft of AW2 had horrible hold/spend for each group in the chase!)

At any rate, it's a neat foundation, and the rules were certainly worth my patreon money. :colbert:

I suppose that is a good point. The chase mechanics do seem much better than in other PbtA titles. I am curious what you mean by "some cyberpunk hacks:" which exactly?

My biggest issue with it and the battle moves, though, is that it has lead to serious move inflation. Some moves (like Assault a Position and Sieze by Force) feeling redundant. Even outside that front, there just seems to be a lot more moves that everyone has than in any other title. That isn't necessarily bad and may be a good direction to go, but is a bit surprising to me. In some ways, the battle moves help keep to a "one move per scene" dynamic that I, personally, feel is for the best, but it also means a lot more moves are necessary, on the other hand.

Arashiofordo3
Nov 5, 2010

Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

Covok posted:

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but that's sort of how my game, Dungeon Bastards, has handled its move structure and how Vincent is experimenting with AW: 2nd Edition. Since I don't know if I can talk about Vincent's work in detail, I'll talk about my own title. My game handled the "1 move to 1 scene" by basically just giving you big, overarching effects to a move that narrate out once a move happens. It's inspired by pbta, not pbta, so it runs off a "once a move triggers, you resolve it and use your successes (if any) to narrate out effects from a list provided by the move."

I'd just like to take a moment and say this post made me go and buy Dungeon Bastards. Which I now love. So thanks very much for that.

Operant
Apr 1, 2010

LET THERE BE NO GENESIS

Thanqol posted:

Really think about what you want to say about violence; if you can express it here we might be able to guide you towards putting that into more thematic moves.

Yeah, I did think about this and probably want to screw around with it a little more and make moves that fit more of the fiction. I left things a bit generic just to make sure the game felt balanced and good to play before I started tweaking things, so the current stats are sort of stand ins. Mind and presence will probably stay the same, Strength will probably get renamed to something like Body, Skill to something like Cold, I may tweak the combat moves to be a little more thematic and add some sort of social aspect to the combat stats.

I do prefer the 'macro' feel to moves, which is why I moved back to a pseudo Harm system. I don't think splitting moves into ranged/melee actually works that well, so I may revert that. I don't really like the generic 'avoid disaster' move even though I felt like I used 'act under fire' quite a bit for the same purposes when playing AW. I may combine the combat moves, add a little more flavor, and add different 'avoid disaster' style moves for the different stats that have more narrative flavor.

Thanks for the feedback! If anyone else has any pointers, I'm very open to them.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Arashiofordo3 posted:

I'd just like to take a moment and say this post made me go and buy Dungeon Bastards. Which I now love. So thanks very much for that.

I am, sincerely, happy to hear that! While I love constructive criticism, I also love hearing people got enjoyment from something I made. I hope, if you decide to play it, that you and your friends enjoy the experience!

Thanks for the message.

Covok fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 3, 2016

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

paradoxGentleman posted:

In the middle of all this high-minded discourse on the nature of PBTA and its applications, I will lament that I cannot throw some money at the guy who made Masks in exchange for a pdf of its work. I cannot afford to sink the money into a physical book and receiving it would be a problem.

You can't pre-order the PDF via Backerkit, but you can certainly buy it when it comes out in Spring.

The play-now rules were an incentive to make the Kickstarter happen (and probably why they got so many backers!)

The game is a bit finnicky in terms of "Is this an X, Q, or a Z?" triggers, but that owes it to being a cheat-sheet instead of a rulebook!

Thanqol posted:

There's also crazy indecision on 'powers matter and are woven into my playbook moves' and 'powers don't matter at all and all my playbook moves are social stuff'. They either need to scrap the Nova or scrap the Delinquent; having them both in the same ruleset is really jarring.
I see this as intentional!
The Nova is all about his powers, trading between emotional and physical safety. That's why your core move is roll +(Emotional) Conditions you have!
You have control of a primal force, and the fact you're Super Powerful defines you.

The Delinquent is about the team and the law, constantly establishing where you stand in regards to one or the other.
You have powers that aid that, because you piss people off; you can have hacking, neutralization, illusions, but nothing for direct confrontation. You're who you are because you're a rebel!

If the Nova had the Delinquent's powers, he'd have little inner turmoil; they're not epic in scope. If the Delinquent had the Nova's powers, she could smash the state easily!

Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 3, 2016

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT
That all makes sense, but powers are kind of a sticking point for me as well.

QuantumNinja
Mar 8, 2013

Trust me.
I pretend to be a ninja.

Thanqol posted:

My Masks playtest games haven't gone particularly well. We can see what they're trying to do but the basic moves don't quite do what you expect or give the results you'd want. There's also crazy indecision on 'powers matter and are woven into my playbook moves' and 'powers don't matter at all and all my playbook moves are social stuff'. They either need to scrap the Nova or scrap the Delinquent; having them both in the same ruleset is really jarring.

I had the same exact experience. The system didn't do what I wanted, or what it sold itself as doing. The basic moves feel lacking and disconnected. It isn't clear where some are triggered, which ones should work where, and how they lead into each other. During the session I ran, I repeatedly flipped to the basic moves to figure out what to roll (in situations where rolls were obviously demanded) and then say to myself, "Wait, there isn't one here for this. What do I have them roll?"

The moves also doesn't really snowball like most PbtA movsets: they don't often follow up well on each other. Or maybe they do, but that doesn't come across at all in the cheat sheet.

I think the #1 thing, at this point, that would help that game is the author streaming a playtest where they run the game. The current material I've seen / played with was... not presented to be used the way it probably should be? I'd like to see what the author intended, though, before condemning the work.

Covok posted:

I suppose that is a good point. The chase mechanics do seem much better than in other PbtA titles. I am curious what you mean by "some cyberpunk hacks:" which exactly?

My biggest issue with it and the battle moves, though, is that it has lead to serious move inflation. Some moves (like Assault a Position and Sieze by Force) feeling redundant. Even outside that front, there just seems to be a lot more moves that everyone has than in any other title. That isn't necessarily bad and may be a good direction to go, but is a bit surprising to me. In some ways, the battle moves help keep to a "one move per scene" dynamic that I, personally, feel is for the best, but it also means a lot more moves are necessary, on the other hand.

As for hacks, look at Sprawl for what I mean. (I thought there was another one that did similar, but I can't find it ATM.)

Your issue seems misplaced, IMO, but that's partially Vincent's fault. The 'Battle Moves' are really poorly organized. There are 'big battle' moves, 'small battle' moves, and 'chase' moves all under that heading.

As for 'big battle' moves, the original AW had 4 battle moves for large battles (p. 212-214). Fallen Empires has five now: Assault A Position, Seize by Force, Defend Something You Hold, Hold an Enemy Off, Stand Guard. But that's really a separate subsystem for crunchier battles, just like before, with one extra move than before.

The other new combat rules fill in 'small battle' moves: direct one-on-one combat (basically replaced old SbF) and Chaotic Free-for-all (which AFAIK hasn't been done elsewhere in other PbtAs, and was a bit of a gap).

And then there's Keep Lookout, which has a certainly thematic feel, but maybe shouldn't be a battle move.

So far we have one extra 'big battle' subsystem move, one extra 'small battle' move that fills a gap, and one misplaced new move that builds theme. 3 extra moves isn't serious bloat.

Then to the 'chase' moves: the other four "Battle Moves", about traps and bait, roll back into the chase and chase/combat rules (called Mounted Combat) that seem to be the focus of experimentation here, for a total of 8 moves about chases and chase/combats. And that actually is bloated! What's worse, Leap Onto a Moving Animal and Unseat Rider are just concretizations of Go Into Danger (which is renamed Act Under Fire). Even if we discard, though, however, we have a 6 moves for chases and chase combat, and that seems like a lot. If it was pared down to 4 (by tying some of them together), I think it would feel good.

Even so, it's a better rough draft of managing chases than anywhere else I've seen.

QuantumNinja fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 3, 2016

malkav11
Aug 7, 2009
The basic moves are supposed to define what's important to a PBTA game, no? So if there isn't a move, you don't roll. Even if it feels like you should. The fiction triggers the moves, not the other way around, so no move, no trigger.

Or at least that'd be my take.

QuantumNinja
Mar 8, 2013

Trust me.
I pretend to be a ninja.

malkav11 posted:

The basic moves are supposed to define what's important to a PBTA game, no? So if there isn't a move, you don't roll. Even if it feels like you should. The fiction triggers the moves, not the other way around, so no move, no trigger.

Or at least that'd be my take.

Appreciated, but there are some things seriously missing, like:
  • A harm move. There is a sort-of harm move, called Take a Powerful Blow, but it's unclear how often that should come up. Sure, a huge combatant hits you, roll it. But if you're just mixing it up with some thugs in an alley, does it come up? If not, damage is only 'mark a condition'. Which is fine, but only barely spelled out, i.e., why doesn't Directly Engage mention marking a condition when it goes poorly?
  • A general 'dangerous maneuver' move, a la Act Under Fire. Is there never risk, beyond the few things outlined?
  • A general manipulation move. There's one for changing people you have influence over, but no outright lying. There's a move to Provoke Someone, but using it for subtle, quiet lies is more than a stretch. I think that's weird for a game that so heavily focuses on personal communication: do lies just default as successful?
Tense moments in the fiction, moments that seem to require something beyond general table consensus, don't trigger moves.

The other thing I disliked, which I didn't remember until I looked at the rules to write this post, is that the bonuses are mathematically unreasonable. +4s and +5s are commonplace! It's easy and straightforward to get +3 in an attribute without much cost, even to the point that two classes (Transformed and Janus) start at +3 in something. That isn't intrinsically bad, but paired with the +1from the Team mechanic (which should be getting spent like candy, because Team points are easy and good), you get this:



A lot of the playbook moves also give you +1s left and right, exacerbating this problem.

Like I said, it's possible I'm doing all of this wrong. But my reading of the cheat sheet release suggests a game that lacks some important infrastructure for the stories it is trying to tell and that's pretty imbalanced with respect to roll bonuses. I'd really like to see the author(s) do a playtest, though, maybe on youtube, to see what they had in mind.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

QuantumNinja posted:

Appreciated, but there are some things seriously missing, like:
  • A harm move. There is a sort-of harm move, called Take a Powerful Blow, but it's unclear how often that should come up. Sure, a huge combatant hits you, roll it. But if you're just mixing it up with some thugs in an alley, does it come up? If not, damage is only 'mark a condition'. Which is fine, but only barely spelled out, i.e., why doesn't Directly Engage mention marking a condition when it goes poorly?
  • A general 'dangerous maneuver' move, a la Act Under Fire. Is there never risk, beyond the few things outlined?
  • A general manipulation move. There's one for changing people you have influence over, but no outright lying. There's a move to Provoke Someone, but using it for subtle, quiet lies is more than a stretch. I think that's weird for a game that so heavily focuses on personal communication: do lies just default as successful?
Tense moments in the fiction, moments that seem to require something beyond general table consensus, don't trigger moves.

The other thing I disliked, which I didn't remember until I looked at the rules to write this post, is that the bonuses are mathematically unreasonable. +4s and +5s are commonplace! It's easy and straightforward to get +3 in an attribute without much cost, even to the point that two classes (Transformed and Janus) start at +3 in something. That isn't intrinsically bad, but paired with the +1from the Team mechanic (which should be getting spent like candy, because Team points are easy and good), you get this:



A lot of the playbook moves also give you +1s left and right, exacerbating this problem.

Like I said, it's possible I'm doing all of this wrong. But my reading of the cheat sheet release suggests a game that lacks some important infrastructure for the stories it is trying to tell and that's pretty imbalanced with respect to roll bonuses. I'd really like to see the author(s) do a playtest, though, maybe on youtube, to see what they had in mind.

Well, they did do a two part playtest with an older playtest copy: Part 1 and Part 2

As for your questions:
  • On the google+ page, they answered that for me. You Take A Powerful Blow only when it comes from a source that makes sense in the narrative. If you get hit by plane, fight Bizzaro, or, for the street-level-not-invulnerable-people, get shot, you Take A Powerful Blow. As for Directly Engage, the idea is you mark a condition when you take their blows. It is vague in the handout. Presumably, it'd be more clear in the book. Likely, this is because it could also lead to Take A Powerful Blow, not always so they were less concrete on things.
  • That is a big problem and one my game ran into. I use Unleash Powers for now, but it does need one.
  • I don't really see this as much of an issue as, in most Young Superhero stories, lies usually just succeed when used on other players until the character feels too guilty or the truth comes to light on its own. But, a move maybe useful for this.
  • Yeah, they need to tighten the math quite a bit

Ya know, it might be useful to crosspost this on their official google+ page. The authors do read the posts there and it could help them sees these problems.

Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

Capfalcon posted:

I don't follow. Personally, I don't really care for the nova, but I don't see how they overlap.

Half the game seems to be about 'how do I use my cool powers to stop the bad guy'. The other half is 'how do I deal with the emotional turmoil of being a teenaged member of a team'. My playtest experience from 2 sessions was that the two do not meld nearly as well as I'd like.

quote:

I see this as intentional!
The Nova is all about his powers, trading between emotional and physical safety. That's why your core move is roll +(Emotional) Conditions you have!
You have control of a primal force, and the fact you're Super Powerful defines you.

The Delinquent is about the team and the law, constantly establishing where you stand in regards to one or the other.
You have powers that aid that, because you piss people off; you can have hacking, neutralization, illusions, but nothing for direct confrontation. You're who you are because you're a rebel!

If the Nova had the Delinquent's powers, he'd have little inner turmoil; they're not epic in scope. If the Delinquent had the Nova's powers, she could smash the state easily!

Yeah, I get what they're going for conceptually and love it, but the play experience didn't measure up to it. What I'm saying is the Nova's moves should be like 'you can automatically 10+ this roll if you hurt someone you care about by mistake', or 'when you refuse to use your powers when they're necessary, mark experience' and poo poo like that. Focus on the emotional side of being the Nova with the moves! I don't give an actual gently caress if they can make solid light constructs or shoot laser eyes or whatever, that's not what I'm there for.

Operant posted:

Yeah, I did think about this and probably want to screw around with it a little more and make moves that fit more of the fiction. I left things a bit generic just to make sure the game felt balanced and good to play before I started tweaking things, so the current stats are sort of stand ins. Mind and presence will probably stay the same, Strength will probably get renamed to something like Body, Skill to something like Cold, I may tweak the combat moves to be a little more thematic and add some sort of social aspect to the combat stats.

I do prefer the 'macro' feel to moves, which is why I moved back to a pseudo Harm system. I don't think splitting moves into ranged/melee actually works that well, so I may revert that. I don't really like the generic 'avoid disaster' move even though I felt like I used 'act under fire' quite a bit for the same purposes when playing AW. I may combine the combat moves, add a little more flavor, and add different 'avoid disaster' style moves for the different stats that have more narrative flavor.

Thanks for the feedback! If anyone else has any pointers, I'm very open to them.

My best advice is don't make generic moves; make the moves that fit your fiction specifically. I was working on a hack based on fish-out-of-water comedy, like The Wrong Mans, Hot Fuzz, Zombieland etc and I had moves like this:

Deal With It
When you bite the bullet and go into a situation that you find scary, no matter how petty the fear may be, roll +Courageous.
10+: Give out 2 hold
7-9: Give out 3 hold

Anyone with Hold may spend their hold during this scene, one for one, to:
- Have something go wrong
- Have one of your fears come true
- Raise the situation's stakes


Stand Up For Yourself
When you stand up for yourself, say exactly what you mean in no uncertain terms. Then roll +Courageous to see what actually comes out of your mouth.

10+: You deliver your speech exactly like it was in your head.
7-9: Choose one:
- You attach an unnecessarily offensive remark to your statement
- You immediately give a craven apology and back down
- You lie about something important
- You whisper or mumble the entire thing

On a miss then what comes out of your mouth has no relation to what you wanted to say.

Judge A Situation
When you're in a really bad spot and need some answers, roll +Cynical. If you act on these answers, take +1 forward.
10+: Ask two
7-9: Ask one

- No seriously, how screwed am I?
- What would ___ do in this situation?
- Where can I go to lay low for a while?
- How much does that guy know?
- What's the worst thing that could happen right now?

(man I should go back and finish this, it's better than I remember)




Also, the Monster Hearts guy is doing a heavy metal sci-fi hack

Capfalcon
Apr 6, 2012

No Boots on the Ground,
Puny Mortals!

Thanqol posted:

Half the game seems to be about 'how do I use my cool powers to stop the bad guy'. The other half is 'how do I deal with the emotional turmoil of being a teenaged member of a team'. My playtest experience from 2 sessions was that the two do not meld nearly as well as I'd like.

Ah, I thought you were saying that the Nova and the Delinquent were stepping on each other's toes thematically. It's more: "The Nova is a really crunchy playbook dealing with modeling extreme power and the Delinquent is full of narrative moves that encouraging a specific attitude."

Yeah, I'm fine with everyone playing their own little mechanical mini-game, but everyone should be interacting with the themes of the game.

Shoombo
Jan 1, 2013

Thanqol posted:






Also, the Monster Hearts guy is doing a heavy metal sci-fi hack

That's the Monster of the Week guy. Monsterhearts is Avery Mcdaldno, who I believe is retired.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Thanqol posted:


My best advice is don't make generic moves; make the moves that fit your fiction specifically. I was working on a hack based on fish-out-of-water comedy, like The Wrong Mans, Hot Fuzz, Zombieland etc and I had moves like this:


Stand Up For Yourself
When you stand up for yourself, say exactly what you mean in no uncertain terms. Then roll +Courageous to see what actually comes out of your mouth.

10+: You deliver your speech exactly like it was in your head.
7-9: Choose one:
- You attach an unnecessarily offensive remark to your statement
- You immediately give a craven apology and back down
- You lie about something important
- You whisper or mumble the entire thing

On a miss then what comes out of your mouth has no relation to what you wanted to say.

The bolded options are "You don't get what you want" and might as well be misses. It's funny, but a partial success shouldn't include "you don't get what you want at all."

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Golden Bee posted:

The bolded options are "You don't get what you want" and might as well be misses. It's funny, but a partial success shouldn't include "you don't get what you want at all."

Im with you on the apology option, but losing nerve and mumbling seems totally fair.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Thanqol posted:

Also, the Monster Hearts guy is doing a heavy metal sci-fi hack
I would just like to point out that two of the playbooks for this are "Mystic Cat" and "Sapient Weapon".

spectralent
Oct 1, 2014

Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Error 404 posted:

Im with you on the apology option, but losing nerve and mumbling seems totally fair.

I dunno; I was almost the reverse. Having said it, you can't unsay it.

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

spectralent posted:

I dunno; I was almost the reverse. Having said it, you can't unsay it.

The way I see it, you still stand up for yourself but instead of "Hey, gently caress Off!" you're more like "I believe you have my stapler and um...i will burn down the building"

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Okay so this Thursday I am going to be running a game of Urban Shadows for some of my mates and I am really nervous.

Any advice people can give for me? I mean the first session is mainly going to be character rolling, rules explaining and ancillary bullshit. But I would still appreciate any advice other people have as to how to run a decent game.

QuantumNinja
Mar 8, 2013

Trust me.
I pretend to be a ninja.

Josef bugman posted:

Okay so this Thursday I am going to be running a game of Urban Shadows for some of my mates and I am really nervous.

Any advice people can give for me? I mean the first session is mainly going to be character rolling, rules explaining and ancillary bullshit. But I would still appreciate any advice other people have as to how to run a decent game.

Lean on debts hard. Make them a big deal, and shift them around a lot.

Make rumors small. They should either tie together or be resolved easily enough.

Try to get at least one player to pick a class built around debts or interacting with a faction. It will make the game work better.

spectralent
Oct 1, 2014

Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Error 404 posted:

The way I see it, you still stand up for yourself but instead of "Hey, gently caress Off!" you're more like "I believe you have my stapler and um...i will burn down the building"

The issue to me is that I'm struggling to see how that doesn't amount to either not getting what you want ("they didn't hear you") or a non issue ("they heard you"). With apology, you get "You stood up for yourself on the topic, but now they think they're in control, and are maybe right about it". It's kind of the "redirect the problem" option, rather than a "resolve the problem" outcome (which is presumably 10+).

That said, generally, the idea of a comedic-farce-game AW hack sounds absolutely great.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Josef bugman posted:

Okay so this Thursday I am going to be running a game of Urban Shadows for some of my mates and I am really nervous.

Any advice people can give for me? I mean the first session is mainly going to be character rolling, rules explaining and ancillary bullshit. But I would still appreciate any advice other people have as to how to run a decent game.

Be chill, be cool, listen to your players, build their experience around their rumors, realize that rumors are them directly telling you what they want to play, and, most importantly, chiiiiiiiiiiillllllllll.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Operant posted:

Yeah, I did think about this and probably want to screw around with it a little more and make moves that fit more of the fiction. I left things a bit generic just to make sure the game felt balanced and good to play before I started tweaking things, so the current stats are sort of stand ins. Mind and presence will probably stay the same, Strength will probably get renamed to something like Body, Skill to something like Cold, I may tweak the combat moves to be a little more thematic and add some sort of social aspect to the combat stats.

My approach for coming up with the stats is to start working on moves - hacks for me usually start with a flood of move ideas - and just writing in whatever seems right for that move in the roll +whatever part. Once i have a good set of moves, I start looking at what stats I'm using, which ones get used more than once, and which ones need to be combined or renamed.

Error 404 posted:

Im with you on the apology option, but losing nerve and mumbling seems totally fair.

PbtA partial successes absolutely cover "you get what you want, but you look like a fool".

spectralent
Oct 1, 2014

Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops
Maybe just consolidate them both into "You do it but look like a git or an easy mark" etc?

xian
Jan 21, 2001

Lipstick Apathy
Have there been any updates anywhere on when The Sprawl is gonna be released? He said "soon" a couple months ago...

madadric
May 18, 2008

Such a BK.
Today my PBTA hack, Impulse Drive got added to the roster of character sheets for Roll20, so now along with the rules and handouts you can play misfits in spaceships with sheets that do all the calculations for you.

madadric fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 6, 2016

Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

Error 404 posted:

The way I see it, you still stand up for yourself but instead of "Hey, gently caress Off!" you're more like "I believe you have my stapler and um...i will burn down the building"

This actually encapsulated my idea for the move so perfectly it inspired me to go ahead and finish the drat thing.

It's called The Worst Day Ever. It's currently ready for playtesting, I'd love any thoughts that anyone has. I had to do a bunch of unusual stuff when I made this game, which dragged it a long way from my original vision, but the system followed its own internal logic after I reached a certain point and I had to invent some rather novel solutions. It all really clicked for me recently when I realized that the game could do tragedy just as well as comedy depending on the lighting and punctuation.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Thanqol posted:

This actually encapsulated my idea for the move so perfectly it inspired me to go ahead and finish the drat thing.

It's called The Worst Day Ever. It's currently ready for playtesting, I'd love any thoughts that anyone has. I had to do a bunch of unusual stuff when I made this game, which dragged it a long way from my original vision, but the system followed its own internal logic after I reached a certain point and I had to invent some rather novel solutions. It all really clicked for me recently when I realized that the game could do tragedy just as well as comedy depending on the lighting and punctuation.

It's interesting. There are a few typos here and there, but I'll say what I normally say: set up a doodle and put it on its feet.

Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

Golden Bee posted:

It's interesting. There are a few typos here and there, but I'll say what I normally say: set up a doodle and put it on its feet.

I don't have time for another online game right now but I'm gonna see how my tabletop group reacts later this week. I guess another round of typo hunting is in order though

Tiger
Oct 18, 2012

And you, who are you? This is what we've got, yes. What are you going to make of it?
Fun Shoe
I'd like to bring back Fallen Empires form last page. It's really dope for what it is. I mean, compared to the extensive game-building that was Dark Ages it's pretty much a new paint job, but... My group has been saying for ages that "you know what, you could pretty much re-skin the core playbooks to fantasy and it'd all work out". And now Vincent has done the work so we don't have to, he's done a really good job of it, and we're having a blast playing it right now! (Or, we've played two sessions and I'm off to the third in like a few minutes.)

I second that the horse-riding moves look nice, even though we haven't had a chance to use them. I also really like how the Nightshade (Skinner) and Mystic (Savvyhead) turned out. For example, An arresting skinner is called Radiant passion, and triggers from "making a show and display of passion" rather than taking clothes off. And the Mystic's ceremonial space (with choices such as a mooncatching pool, a garden of herbs, captive birds, and a labyrinth) works great. Instead of "building something or getting to the bottom of some poo poo", it is used to "find out the truth about sth, transform sth, or imbue sth with magic".

The harm system is also great. The harm countdown is the same, but the way weapon tags are used to find out how much damage you do in different situations and at different ranges is great. Vincent has said it's not going to be ported back into AW2e, but I'm seriously thinking of doing so on my own because I really like it.

All in all, I can see how you'd find it underwhelming, but it's really solid, and I recommend people check it out if you can afford the 1$ per thing patreon pledge.

Thanqol
Feb 15, 2012

because our character has the 'poet' trait, this update shall be told in the format of a rap battle.

Tiger posted:

I'd like to bring back Fallen Empires form last page. It's really dope for what it is. I mean, compared to the extensive game-building that was Dark Ages it's pretty much a new paint job, but... My group has been saying for ages that "you know what, you could pretty much re-skin the core playbooks to fantasy and it'd all work out". And now Vincent has done the work so we don't have to, he's done a really good job of it, and we're having a blast playing it right now! (Or, we've played two sessions and I'm off to the third in like a few minutes.)

I second that the horse-riding moves look nice, even though we haven't had a chance to use them. I also really like how the Nightshade (Skinner) and Mystic (Savvyhead) turned out. For example, An arresting skinner is called Radiant passion, and triggers from "making a show and display of passion" rather than taking clothes off. And the Mystic's ceremonial space (with choices such as a mooncatching pool, a garden of herbs, captive birds, and a labyrinth) works great. Instead of "building something or getting to the bottom of some poo poo", it is used to "find out the truth about sth, transform sth, or imbue sth with magic".

The harm system is also great. The harm countdown is the same, but the way weapon tags are used to find out how much damage you do in different situations and at different ranges is great. Vincent has said it's not going to be ported back into AW2e, but I'm seriously thinking of doing so on my own because I really like it.

All in all, I can see how you'd find it underwhelming, but it's really solid, and I recommend people check it out if you can afford the 1$ per thing patreon pledge.

Yeah, I liked it and I'm gonna let people take moves from it in regular Apocalypse World too 'cause there's some great stuff there.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Okay, so just ran my first game of Urban Shadows. It went okay I guess, but I am a bit worried how it is going to go in the future.

Its set in near future Moscow and the main protagonists are:

Lara- An almost monomaniacal Aware who was played by Curtis who was going to leave the group after the first session to go back to Cambridge.
Houton- An Oracle with water and running away issues
Jacob- A soviet spy ghost that was murdered after his friend Gregor gave him up by accident in Britain who is searching for the people who killed his daughter, is in debt to the ghost mob and whose wife is being helped by Lara.
Mafixia- An apparent succubus vampire thing played with enthusiasm for the concept but little beyond being really interested in sex by Emsey.

I tried to get them all together to start with and they all have debts, I even got them shot at by a shape shifting were-cat thing. But I dunno I don't know how to do "conversation" without it just ending up being me saying "okay you've done x and y now roll z"

MadRhetoric
Feb 18, 2011

I POSSESS QUESTIONABLE TASTE IN TOUHOU GAMES

Josef bugman posted:

Okay, so just ran my first game of Urban Shadows. It went okay I guess, but I am a bit worried how it is going to go in the future.

Its set in near future Moscow and the main protagonists are:

Lara- An almost monomaniacal Aware who was played by Curtis who was going to leave the group after the first session to go back to Cambridge.
Houton- An Oracle with water and running away issues
Jacob- A soviet spy ghost that was murdered after his friend Gregor gave him up by accident in Britain who is searching for the people who killed his daughter, is in debt to the ghost mob and whose wife is being helped by Lara.
Mafixia- An apparent succubus vampire thing played with enthusiasm for the concept but little beyond being really interested in sex by Emsey.

I tried to get them all together to start with and they all have debts, I even got them shot at by a shape shifting were-cat thing. But I dunno I don't know how to do "conversation" without it just ending up being me saying "okay you've done x and y now roll z"

You've found the place where theory gets mugged by application in PbtA games. If the players don't have driving things they want to do, then the first session can flounder. If the session flounders, conversation fails. If conversation fails, you don't have a game.

You should have some threats and fronts (or storms or portents or whatever pretentious name your hack of choice uses) and you've got a hook with Jacob: use Jacob's mission as a way to rope the other players in. Give the players cool poo poo to do in near-future Moscow, tying in the debts they've accrued. Once some poo poo pops off (potentially on a miss or golden opportunity), use that to come up with an episode for the session. Always remember to ask players "What do you do?" after every move. If they say they don't know, then expound on what's going on and maybe give them some choices. If they don't bite on what you say, it hopefully engenders a player's ideas.

thefakenews
Oct 20, 2012
Between work and the holidays Malleus kind of got left behind. I have started working on it again, but I really need to pick up the play testing and I'm still keen to play some games online if those who previously indicated interest still want to take part.

In the meantime, I am working on rules for buying (and selling) equipment, and paying for services. I suspect they are similar to existing rules in other games (although I have not specifically looked at anything for inspiration). I would be grateful for feedback:

Malleus Draft posted:

Buying and Selling Equipment
Currency is treated in a very abstract fashion in Malleus, it is not a game about acquiring wealth or resources. It is assumed that the player characters have somewhere to live and the ability to meet the basic costs of living, unless you choose to make that a particular issue in your game (these costs could be very substantial during the seventeenth century, but Malleus is not intended to be a game about seventeenth century economics). It is up to the players to determine where the characters' resources come from - be it the Church, a patron, inherited wealth or gainful employment. It is also assumed that common items, such as a new pair of boots, a simple outfit, a hot meal or a haircut are readily available and can be obtained without meaningful effort or expense in most cities and towns.

More specialised equipment, weapons, armour and services are generally more costly and difficult to acquire. Such items should be assigned an Availability rating by the GM. This ranges from +3, for cheap and easily available goods, to -3 for rare or extravagant purchases. This is also true or various services that the player characters might seek to obtain.

When a character tries to obtain goods or services, roll +Availability. On a 10+ the goods or services are obtained without complication, and at a reasonable price. On a 7-9 choose 3:
» The goods or services are of at least the quality sought.
» The goods or services do not take a problematically long time to acquire.
» The goods or services can be obtained for a price that does not prevent you from making further purchases this session.
» You don’t need help acquiring the goods or services, and don’t owe anyone a favour for helping you get them.


As a guide, most goods and services should fall between about +2 and -2. An Availability of +3 should be reserved for common and cheap items that otherwise would not require a roll, but for some minor impediment. An Availability of -3 is reserved for items such as a fine warhorse, suspiciously large quantities of gunpowder or getting a Bishop in your pocket.

As a starting point for availability, most items or services can be assigned an Availability of +1 in cities or large towns, +0 in smaller towns and large villages, and -1 in more remote regions and small villages. Adjustments up or down due to regional factors, high cost, how conspicuous the transaction is and/or PC contacts, can then be made. In general, renting goods rather than buying them is a positive factor in determining availability.

At the GM’s option, selling goods you already own in order to finance new spending might increase the Availability of new goods and services.

Vulpes Vulpes
Apr 28, 2013

"...for you, it is all over...!"
I've really gotten a hankering to put together a Spirit of 77 game based around car racing in exotic locales under the auspices of an underground race sponsored by a shady contessa. Basically Enter the Dragon crossed with Speed Racer, with the players alternatively racing and investigating the race.

I'm just trying to figure out what to do with character creation. Should I let all the playbooks take the Hot Wheels move to put everyone on the same footing? Or should I just scrub the Good Old Boy altogether? Having one playbook be so much better than the others at driving would really throw off the racing segments, and I'd like to let everyone be poo poo-hot drivers. Any thoughts?

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QuantumNinja
Mar 8, 2013

Trust me.
I pretend to be a ninja.

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

I've really gotten a hankering to put together a Spirit of 77 game based around car racing in exotic locales under the auspices of an underground race sponsored by a shady contessa. Basically Enter the Dragon crossed with Speed Racer, with the players alternatively racing and investigating the race.

I'm just trying to figure out what to do with character creation. Should I let all the playbooks take the Hot Wheels move to put everyone on the same footing? Or should I just scrub the Good Old Boy altogether? Having one playbook be so much better than the others at driving would really throw off the racing segments, and I'd like to let everyone be poo poo-hot drivers. Any thoughts?

Give everyone Sweet Ride and Hot Wheels. Don't let anyone play the class.

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