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Adventure Pigeon posted:I'm playing this again and applied to the clan. Quick, stupid question though. I kinda want to get a destroyer and carrier again, but there've been some changes since I last looked into things. What's the current meta? The current meta is as such: You choose a ship and enter Random Battle matchmaking. One of your team immediately requests assistance before they've even traveled the length of their ship. They argue over which direction to go, and break up. You fire long-range shots at the enemy which miss because your gunners think accuracy is for suckers. You watch several of your fellow captains charge right into enemy fire and get slaughtered. Just when you start to despair, you read a message across the sea from the other team. Poi.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:46
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Cobbsprite posted:The current meta is as such: I wish you were kidding. 
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Jan 3, 2016 19:51
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Cobbsprite posted:The current meta is as such: Playing to win is for suckers, playing for mission progress or xp gain per hour is where it's at  .
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Jan 3, 2016 20:00
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You forgot that although your gunners are blind and can't hit the side of a parked bus everyone on the other side who takes a shot at you can hit with pinpoint accuracy. As you enjoy them setting you on fire over and over... the DD's arrive. Torpedoes dead ahead. So. Many. Torpedoes. Everywhere.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:18
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Adventure Pigeon posted:I'm playing this again and applied to the clan. Quick, stupid question though. I kinda want to get a destroyer and carrier again, but there've been some changes since I last looked into things. What's the current meta? At low tiers you can absolutely wreck other carriers who don't understand how to use or defend against manual fighter runs. I once neutered a fighter Bogue and Langley team with a strike-fit Ryujo (the pub Langley on my team was good for tying down their fighters) and my single squadron of fighters by hitting the perfect manual fighter runs over and over. On my best pass, I knocked 12 aircraft out of the sky. At higher tiers every carrier player has stuck things out and at least knows not to line up squads in a straight beeline to yours.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:27
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TheDemon posted:At low tiers you can absolutely wreck other carriers who don't understand how to use or defend against manual fighter runs. I once neutered a fighter Bogue and Langley team with a strike-fit Ryujo (the pub Langley on my team was good for tying down their fighters) and my single squadron of fighters by hitting the perfect manual fighter runs over and over. On my best pass, I knocked 12 aircraft out of the sky. How does manual fighter control work? I was under the impression that they couldn't be effectively controlled except from the orbital camera.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:29
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Select fighter squad. Hold alt. Click. Get your timing right.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:03
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Cobbsprite posted:How does manual fighter control work? I was under the impression that they couldn't be effectively controlled except from the orbital camera. It's basically the same as a manual torp drop except it fires machine guns that only hit planes
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Jan 3, 2016 21:16
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A tale of three Tirpitzes, a Fubuki and the Pensacola watching it all or why battleship really need a forward screen when there's an IJN tincan on the prowl. Had a good laugh when I blew out one Tipitzes' engines while his repair was on cooldown and then nuked him with a second spread before he could get moving again. Also, pubbie rage at the last second of the game. And in the strangest moment of benevolent tunnel vision I have ever experienced, I ate a full six torps from a Hatsuharu with my Amagi while dueling an Iowa that was about to murder me anyway. All because I was too fixated to get a full broadside off while the Iowa was showing her side. That broadside scored three citadels and four or five regular pens, doing close to 60k damage in one go. Fitting parting gift, I'd say. v  v
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Jan 3, 2016 21:41
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demonR6 posted:You forgot that although your gunners are blind and can't hit the side of a parked bus everyone on the other side who takes a shot at you can hit with pinpoint accuracy. As you enjoy them setting you on fire over and over... the DD's arrive. Torpedoes dead ahead. So. Many. Torpedoes. Everywhere. You've made quite a few posts that basically say "I really suck at this game". Why not watch some videos on how to play better, or play something else?
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Jan 3, 2016 23:24
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TheDemon posted:Select fighter squad. 
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Jan 3, 2016 23:38
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Poil posted:You can do that? When was that added to the game? It was sometime in the last 2-3 patches. And yes friendly fire incidents are possible.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:46
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Poil posted:You can do that? When was that added to the game? august of 2015 i think. it's basically the only mechanic that allows air-to-air engagements between carriers to be more than just "more planes equals win"
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Jan 3, 2016 23:47
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As anyone made a video displaying this new air to air combat thing? I'm interested in seeing how it works and how effective it is. My whole air to air tactics usually involves clicking planes and waiting for either side to die. Its not particularly effective.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:50
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Best I've ever done without Premium. I didn't even cap our initial spot. I did a full 360 around a 4-cap two brothers and then turned around to re-cap A. The torpedo strikes were just opportunity shots at the end and the shots landed were me being retarded and trading rounds with a Gnevny right at the start. We would have won anyway but this way I Go Mutsuki Go!  Also, I just finished Japanese Destroyer Captain. Thank you thread for the recommendation.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:59
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Dalael posted:Carriers are now mostly nonexistent in lower tiers. I can't say for sure about the higher tiers. When there are carriers in play, the meta is pretty much fighters fighters fighters. The logic of it is pretty simple. A US carrier does not have enough squadrons to stop a IJN carrier, no matter its loadouts. Therefore you're pretty much forced to go with the fighter loadout. A IJN carrier risks facing a US carrier who will undoubtfully be a fighter fit carrier, therefore also needs to go with a fighter loadout, otherwise you run out of fighters pretty fast. That's my take on it anyways. Carriers have been pretty much nerfed into the ground in many respect. Dalael posted:As anyone made a video displaying this new air to air combat thing? I'm interested in seeing how it works and how effective it is. My whole air to air tactics usually involves clicking planes and waiting for either side to die. Its not particularly effective. if the enemy squad sits in the firing line of the attack for 2 seconds, expect to kill 3+ planes, if not the whole squad very rapidly. Barrage fire is loving OP as hell. Barrage fire also is why CV gameplay at the high tiers opens up a lot more than it does at low tiers. If you engage a fighter squad at low tiers, you uhh, engage it and good job, you shoot at each other and contemplate life. At high tiers, an IJN CV can tie up the US CV's fighters with his own, then bring in a 3rd fighter to barrage both squads, usually wiping all of the planes in a volley. This is a very favorable trade for the IJN CV, of course, and it also opens him up to send in bombers while the enemy CV scrambles to get his safe. This of course goes both ways, with US CVs having better damage on their planes, so they can wait until the enemy screws up. Another major change to CV mechanics is that fighters are FORCED to engage an enemy fighter if they are attacked, peeling them away from any bomber they were currently autoattacking. Now sending your fighters in with your bombers actually serves a purpose, you can peel fighters off your bombers! Though you'll probably just get barraged anyways. Edit: So my proposed fix for CVs is basically... let fighters do what they do now. But increase hangar size and number of planes all CVs can use, and give CVs more fighters on all their loadouts. You can still go heavy fighter, but you won't have a crushing advantage anymore, and the CV with less fighters can still use them to peel off hostiles from their bombers, or threaten with barrage fire. Of course, this would mean a nerf to plane detection, as more planes flying around just means more problems for DDs... but I've wanted that forever anyways. DDs and CAs spotted by 1-2 planes aren't actually seen by hostiles unless the DD is also nearby an enemy ship and within the range they'd be spotted if they were firing their guns (3+ planes spots DDs as it usually does, 2+ for CAs), torpedoes are no longer spotted by planes. So DDs can still be lit up, but you can't effectively fire on them unless you have a ship to give eyes on them as well, or devote more planes to spotting. Oh, nerf barrage fire, its really too powerful. But... make it so if you barrage fire against an enemy ship, you can temporarily suppress their AA (won't disable Defensive Fire's squad panic, but will reduce the damage temporarily). A way for a CV to engage a clustered group of BBs without losing all their planes to hilariously powerful US BB AA. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 00:18
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Like I've said before I'm extremely new to this game. Can someone talk to me about how to effectively pilot a destroyer? I get blown the gently caress up before I can do much pretty much every game. What's the range on torps? I get that you're supposed to flank and come in from weird angles and behind cover but I can't seem to make the execution work.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:55
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Staying alive until endgame is a big one. You can find your torp range and detectability range by hovering your mouse over the appropriate icons. If you have a ship with a longer torp range than detectability (and insane skills), you can do things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGaMQ8MqaK0
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Jan 4, 2016 01:17
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Sharzak posted:Like I've said before I'm extremely new to this game. Can someone talk to me about how to effectively pilot a destroyer? I get blown the gently caress up before I can do much pretty much every game. What's the range on torps? I get that you're supposed to flank and come in from weird angles and behind cover but I can't seem to make the execution work. At the port, there is a screen that shows all of your stats. If you click on the stat, the tab will open up to breakdown the specifics of that stat. Concealment opens up to show your the range at which your ship will be detected by hostiles ships and planes, Torpedoes will open up to reveal your torpedo range, damage, and speed, as well as the particulars of your armament, such as how many tubes per launcher and how many launchers. Low tier US DDs have wing mounted torpedo launchers, which means they have them on the sides of the ship. You can only bring half of your torpedo armament to bear, then you need to turn and present your other side to shoot more. The more common setup for torpedo launchers on DDs is centerline, where the torpedo tubes are mounted center of the ship and swivel to face each way, allowing you to fire all of your torps at once. When firing torps, bear in mind that the grey line only indicates where to aim your torpedoes to get a hit, assuming the target continues in the direction they are facing at the speed they are traveling consistently until torps arrive. People won't sail in straight lines forever. Start predicting where your target will be, and adjust your aim accordingly. Low tier IJN DDs need to play patiently and not get themselves in too close to hostile DDs. Use smoke if you run into a bad situation to get out. Torpedo CAs and especially BBs, don't bother with DDs unless you're at point blank range and need to defend yourself. Low tier US ships can plink away at ships with their guns, and excel at basically running around fighting isolated lone targets. Ambush BBs and CAs, and hunt DDs. You will lose a fair fight against a CA, so don't ever engage in one. Either be at point blank and torp them, or far away and zonk them with HE while they're distracted. Low tier RUS ships can be a bit more ballsy. Their guns are superior in terms of firing arc to US DDs, letting them bring AP to bear against CAs. Stay at mid-long range and engage enemies, but don't do it solo unless your target is also solo. You're still at a disadvantage against a CA, but you can handle yourself much better, and deal serious damage if left unchecked. Never engage enemy DDs at close range unless you take them by surprise. While IJN DDs aren't particularly scary in a gunfight, US DDs out DPS you in a close range fight. Draw out the range and make them work for their hits, while you let your superior shell ballistics do the work for you. Patience is the name of the game for DDs. Don't rush in and die early. Every DD does that. Once you stop doing that, you will be better than a good number of people who "play" DDs. Seriously. Pick your battles, watch the map, look for enemy DDs to engage, BBs to torp, weakened ships to pick off, and caps to take. If you're not busy, think about where you can be to better spot enemies and be in a position to capitalize on enemy mistakes. DDs are the hardest ship class to play in the game, from a tactical standpoint (CVs are a bit more technical and strategic). You're not going to figure it out in one go. Play more cruisers and get better at aiming. Have you been using the alt-battle interface? Enable that in your settings to get TTI when in sniper zoom, and then use the sights to easily figure out your lead. Watch the Wargaming naval academy tutorials if you haven't already. youtube.com/watch?v=ZhXK_3ZwIJA&list=PLVmXzlhZvJVTEOR1bd7vYmu0Ni2ywxAOM
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Jan 4, 2016 01:23
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PirateBob posted:You've made quite a few posts that basically say "I really suck at this game". Why not watch some videos on how to play better, or play something else? I'm okay with destroyers and cruisers, but I guess I don't get battleships either. Just had a game in my New York-class. Game starts out with me just about already in range of cruisers who are firing from beyond my range. I'm set on fire instantly. If I wait to hit my repair party, I take a lot of burning damage. If I use the repair party, I put the fire out and then 30 seconds later another HE round sets me on fire again. I take a few long-range shots at enemy battleships, firing AP, but the dispersion of a full salvo is *huge*, it's accurate enough to bracket the target but so imprecise that only two rounds hit (I'd swear that multiple rounds fired from the same turret diverge in azimuth), they appear to hit dead-center of the citadel but they fail to penetrate and do only a couple of thousand points of damage. Eventually I'm a burned out hulk, a couple of thousand of HP remaining, and a cruiser emerges from around the edge of an island, he's only 5 km away, I lay a full salvo against his starboard side, he's 90 degrees on to me, I barely even have to lead. Again, the dispersion of my rounds is so wide that half sail over him, most of the rest splash into the water, and the remaining two smack him right dead-center of the citadel and fail to penetrate (note: no overpenetration warning),and do only a couple of thousand points of damage. He returns a few rounds of HE and I blow up. Maybe that's me sucking, but I don't suck like that with every ship. My Konigsberg places nice tight salvos of 9 rounds at ranges further than my BB can currently shoot. What exactly do I do to give me a reasonable chance of hitting my target with more than one or two rounds out of a salvo and doing significant damage when I do?
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Jan 4, 2016 01:38
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Phanatic posted:Again, the dispersion of my rounds is so wide that half sail over him, most of the rest splash into the water, and the remaining two smack him right dead-center of the citadel and fail to penetrate (note: no overpenetration warning),and do only a couple of thousand points of damage. When firing at angled targets, you have to take shell trajectory into account. As traveling to the east and aiming north, your bow turrets will fire shells that track to the target from right to left, and vice versa for your rear turrets. This can lead to bracketing a ship if you broadside and aim dead center on a ship angled at you. Try ripple firing and manually adjusting for this for each side of the ship that is firing. Alternatively, load HE if you don't think you'll get anything better than an overpen. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 01:52
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Battleships play quite a bit different in my experience. The big skill you need to learn to be good in them (besides good shooting) are constant situational awareness and judgement. I tend to zoom out and look around for most of the reload duration of my guns, looking for targets of opportunity, enemy BBs in dangerous positions (IE; liable to get a shot at my unangled sides) and anything that could launch torpedos at me. You have to judge any engagement you're in constantly on wether you can win it or not and hence push or pull back as necessary and you have to make that call early because it just plain takes a time to get the big tubs turned around - and some quite deliberate timing to do it in contact without eating poo poo. Also, how to use your damage control and hitpoint repair abilities. I generally pack the premium damage control and only use it fo multiple fires, engine/rudder damage and/or flooding. Single fires get only emergency-extinguished if I'm on low health or certain that there won't be anything new within the cooldown. Repair gets triggered the moment I'm down to ~75% health or lower whenever it's off cooldown because you don't really gain anything from keeping it in reserve once it can repair the max amount of damage. Exception if I took a bit citadel hit, then I'll wait because those can't be recovered.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:06
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Hazdoc posted:Overpens don't give a warning, just a specific sound effect and the very specific damage they deal. Overpenetrations -always- deal 10% of the shell's max damage. For a New York, this is about 1k damage. If you get 2 hits for 2k damage, that means both shells overpenned. At point blank, you shouldn't be just aiming at the waterline, you should be aiming BELOW it. Not too much, of course. But waterline shots at a flat angle often will simply pass over the citadel and not drop low enough to pen it, instead overpenning through the thin Omaha armor of the ship (instead of, say, bouncing off the far side armor and then traveling downwards into the citadel were it a longer ranged shot). Aiming lower means the higher shots will angle down more, and shots that hit the water can still travel, pen the ship, and are hitting below the waterline, where the citadel is. At worst, they'll already have armed from hitting the water and stand a chance of exploding inside for a normal penetration. Cool, thanks. I *swore* I saw an overpen warning on my screen when I was shooting at a destroyer with a cruiser, but I guess that was just the drink talking.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:08
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Hazdoc posted:Patience is the name of the game for DDs. Don't rush in and die early. Every DD does that. Once you stop doing that, you will be better than a good number of people who "play" DDs. 
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Jan 4, 2016 03:29
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PirateBob posted:You've made quite a few posts that basically say "I really suck at this game". Why not watch some videos on how to play better, or play something else? I just fired a full AP broadside from my New Mexico at a 4khp Furutaka only 3km away from me. Only 8 of the 12 shells registered as hits. Of those 8 hits, every single one of them somehow managed to find a way to miss the citadel that a Furutaka is entirely constructed from, and record presumably as overpens, for a total of 0 damage. The Taco driver thought it was hilarious, and had absolutely no idea how he was still alive. This game is total loving bullshit whenever it wants to be, and anyone arguing otherwise is flat out kidding themselves. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 09:56
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NTRabbit posted:I just fired a full AP broadside from my New Mexico at a 4khp Furutaka only 3km away from me. Only 8 of the 12 shells registered as hits. Of those 8 hits, every single one of them somehow managed to find a way to miss the citadel that a Furutaka is entirely constructed from, and record presumably as overpens, for a total of 0 damage. The Taco driver thought it was hilarious, and had absolutely no idea how he was still alive. bullshit post your .wowsreplay
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Jan 4, 2016 10:19
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Hazdoc posted:quote="NTRabbit" From the person who refused to believe a Myogi does miss most of its shots at any range
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Jan 4, 2016 10:39
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NTRabbit posted:I just fired a full AP broadside from my New Mexico at a 4khp Furutaka only 3km away from me. Only 8 of the 12 shells registered as hits. Of those 8 hits, every single one of them somehow managed to find a way to miss the citadel that a Furutaka is entirely constructed from, and record presumably as overpens, for a total of 0 damage. The Taco driver thought it was hilarious, and had absolutely no idea how he was still alive. No you didn't. (or you aimed at destroyed superstructure and got very lucky dispersion - don't shoot AP at destroyed superstructure) You cannot deplete that many sections' health pools completely without sinking the ship. Over penetrations deal 1/10 listed damage. For reference, I uninstalled this game mostly because I was tired of the RNG bullshit. Anyway you should post the replay. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 10:41
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James Garfield posted:(or you aimed at destroyed superstructure and got very lucky dispersion - don't shoot AP at destroyed superstructure) A Furutaka does 35 knots and it was travelling in the opposite direction for a 51 knot relative speed, I wasn't sure if the torpedoes were reloaded, I was reloading, New Mexico turrets turn slowly, and it's a ponderous whale to turn at the best of times, I didn't aim at destroyed superstructure so much as I clicked when it was green and I could guarantee the theoretical salvo would hit the target ship somewhere between the front and rear turrets. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 10:52
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unless you post a video, no one is going to believe your fantastical claim. in order for an NM to do 0 dmg to a cruiser on 8 hits @ 3km, you would have had to ricochet every one of those shells off of his deck. to say that this is incredibly unlikely would be an understatement. and if you were aiming high enough to actually do that, then the problem is with your aim, and not the game
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Jan 4, 2016 11:54
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NTRabbit posted:From the person who refused to believe a Myogi does miss most of its shots at any range Your claim is literally impossible. You had to have bounced 8 shells, as overpens -always- deal 10% of the shell's max damage, always. Always. So, to fail to deal damage, means 1 of 3 things. The shells bounced or failed to penetrate. At 3 km? They didn't fail to penetrate. New Mexico HE can penetrate Furutaka belt armor at 3KM, AP can certainly do a lot more than that. They could have also normally penned, but exploded inside of a fully depleted health pool of the ship. But 8 shells all normally penning, and not a single shell overpenning or bouncing its way into the citadel or a different ship compartment? That's extraordinary. At 3KM? ON A FURUTAKA? That's impossible. You constantly complain about missing all of your shots or never doing damage in a BB. You're so full of poo poo, I don't even know where to begin with you. Post your .wowsreplay or 
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Jan 4, 2016 12:22
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I don't know why youtube turned the quality to poo poo but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbeFSHnF7Eg You can see the barrage from the front turrets hit the Taco and do Still proves my point, this game is completely full of poo poo. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 12:46
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yea you shot him at such a steep angle that you literally ricochet'ed all of your shells off of his angled hull. that means you're bad hth.
Deutsch Nozzle fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 12:48
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Deutsch Nozzle posted:yea you shot him at such a steep angle that you literally ricochet'ed all of your shells of off his angled hull. that means you're bad hth. Which would be fine if I was shooting 6 inch shells at it, maybe, but a Furutaka does not bounce 14" shells no matter what angle you use, and nor should it. Ergo, this game is full of RNG bullshit, which is why the best ships always have been, and always will be, the ones that can fire the most HE shells per broadside, as frequently as possible, while dodging she;;s so that RNG armour never comes into play. Cleveland is king of the seas.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:51
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NTRabbit posted:Which would be fine if I was shooting 6 inch shells at it, maybe, but a Furutaka does not bounce 14" shells no matter what angle you use, and nor should it. ok so the problem is that you believe the shells should have penetrated. got it. lol
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Jan 4, 2016 12:53
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Deutsch Nozzle posted:ok so the problem is that you believe the shells should have penetrated. In what world do you think it's not complete and utter garbage game design for a cruiser to bounce point blank fire from a battleship? With all the other advantages they have, now driving straight towards a battleship at a slight angle should make them invulnerable too? And do you think it's deliberate or an accident? Because neither is a good answer to defeating the "this game is bullshit" argument. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 12:55
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NTRabbit posted:In what world do you think it's not complete and utter garbage game design for a cruiser to bounce point blank fire from a battleship? With all the other advantages they have, now driving straight towards a battleship at a slight angle should make them invulnerable too? And do you think it's deliberate or an accident? Because neither is a good answer to defeating the "this game is bullshit" argument. Go cry your manly random tears somewhere else and stop dirtying up a thread I like reading. We got it - you don't like the game and think it stinks. Don't need to say that more than once. Now go be bad in the Wargaming forums where you belong.
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Jan 4, 2016 14:10
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Well everyone else he called the bullshit flag and it was impossible there is the video to prove it now go eat a bucket of hot dicks. That is all.  Also NTR you are loving terrible only you could bounce your shots or miss at point blank. Congrats. I saw a few of the anime ships last night, mostly Kongo variants. They weren't anything special but did attract enough attention that everyone on the team was burning waves to get their first to engage them going to get the kill. demonR6 fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 14:14
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NTRabbit posted:In what world do you think it's not complete and utter garbage game design for a cruiser to bounce point blank fire from a battleship? With all the other advantages they have, now driving straight towards a battleship at a slight angle should make them invulnerable too? And do you think it's deliberate or an accident? Because neither is a good answer to defeating the "this game is bullshit" argument. Playing that video at ¼ speed I see 3 flashes and no splashes so half your shells only clipped a no-damage chunk of superstructure, accounting for half your hits. As for your shells bouncing, let's look at some gun penetration stats from http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_14-50_mk4.htm Assuming this is the same source WG.net uses(probably not), your guns have about 437mm of average penetration. in WoT, penetration is variable and random with each shell having between 75% and 125% of it's regular value and I assume it's the same for this game, so a minimum of 328mm, plugging that into the armour thickness formula, armour/cos(angle) gives us 76/cos(x)=328 and x=76.6 degrees off the perpendicular which doesn't seem to be that far off the mark from how you were shooting his furthest away side which is angled the heaviest. Had you shot his giant vulnerable turrets which are also full damage hitboxes you would have killed him.
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Jan 4, 2016 14:31
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Asehujiko posted:Why where you even closing to point blank range to a torp carrying cruiser with half your guns pointing the wrong way and why the gently caress did you continue on in a straight line with another destroyer right there next to it? I kept going because I assumed one salvo would surely finish him off at that range, and I needed to keep going that way if I was going to have any chance of getting that overrated pile of a ship anywhere near where it could change the battle, not to mention that I didn't know the Destroyer was there until he was, and when I first committed, two of the ships you see loitering in the middle of the map were supposedly coming with me. Asehujiko posted:Had you shot his giant vulnerable turrets which are also full damage hitboxes you would have killed him. I like when people pretend it's actually possible to pinpoint modules/small citadels with battleship guns in battleship turrets on battleship hulls. Hard enough to do with the better US Destroyer guns.
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Jan 4, 2016 14:39
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