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Effectronica posted:No, most of the characters can understand droids in the OT, and so can a lot of characters in this movie. Nobody understands Artoo except for Threepio. Luke only understands him while in his x-wing because of a translator computer.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:54
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Proposition Joe posted:Finn says, "What?" because he is surprised that someone would think he is in the Resistance when he is in fact not. No, he doesn't. That makes less sense with the dialogue. Your move.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:54
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Neurolimal posted:It's come up, and I support the theory myself; I can totally see Kylo, just starting his descent, so close to Luke, failing to bring himself to kill a literal child.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:54
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Effectronica posted:Finn says "What?" and is visibly and audibly confused when Poe asks him if he's with the Resistance. He then says, "No, this is a rescue," which would be a non sequitur if he knew what the Resistance was. I'm sorry you're mentally handicapped. Or, he's surprised that someone would suggest he's with the Resistance, having lived as a stormtrooper his whole life. If a Hitler Youth said "what?!" after being asked if they wete a member of the russian allies, I wouldn't immediately presume they didn"t know World War 2 was happening.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1PK4qYzNkI In this scene Mark Wahlberg doesn't know what sleep or murder is.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:56
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No guys, the First Order are indoctrinated to fiercely believe in the cause of their military organization but they also don't know about the existence of their enemies.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:57
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Phylodox posted:Nobody understands Artoo except for Threepio. Luke only understands him while in his x-wing because of a translator computer. Wrong. Leia has to communicate with R2 to give him the plans. Luke has conversations with R2 on Dagobah. Kenobi talks to R2. Even Chewie seems to understand R2. That's part of the joke.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:58
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Hux is giving got drat speeches to troopers about the resistance right in the movie.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:59
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greatn posted:Hux is giving got drat speeches to troopers about the resistance right in the movie. The who?
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Jan 3, 2016 21:00
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Effectronica posted:Wrong. Leia has to communicate with R2 to give him the plans. Luke has conversations with R2 on Dagobah. Kenobi talks to R2. Even Chewie seems to understand R2. That's part of the joke. Those are all one-sided conversations. People talk to Artoo and he understands them. They don't understand him, except in the broadest sense because of tone and "body" language. Empire Strikes Back even makes a point to cut to Luke's translator computer at one point to explain how he's able to understand what Artoo is saying.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:00
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Star Wars Fans don't listen to Star Wars Dialogue, apparently.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:00
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Proposition Joe posted:No guys, the First Order are indoctrinated to fiercely believe in the cause of their military organization but they also don't know about the existence of their enemies. "Hey, FN-2187, did you ever wonder where that X-Wing that we just blew up in the first scene in the movie came from?" "Nope."
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Jan 3, 2016 21:01
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Not educating stormtroopers enough to teach them every droid language isn't the same as keeping them in the dark about the existence of their enemy. You must be intentionally misunderstanding at this point.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:01
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Proposition Joe posted:No guys, the First Order are indoctrinated to fiercely believe in the cause of their military organization but they also don't know about the existence of their enemies. They're indoctrinated to not think or question orders. Why do they need to know anything? The First Order wants freethinking soldiers who nevertheless follow orders exactly? I guess given the grotesqueness of many scifi fans concerning the mind,I shouldn't be surprised if that's what you think.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:02
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kiimo posted:This thread moves too fast. Anyway I don't know if anyone else has brought this up but, I'd be interested to know how old Rey or Ben actually are. TFA takes place approximately 29 years after Jedi, I think. I would think that given the window of time, Rey and Kylo (yes, Ben was his given name) are probably too close in age for that to be a thing. We know both characters were born after Jedi, and Rey has been on Jakku for a very long time.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:02
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Effectronica posted:Finn says "What?" and is visibly and audibly confused when Poe asks him if he's with the Resistance. He then says, "No, this is a rescue," which would be a non sequitur if he knew what the Resistance was. I'm sorry you're mentally handicapped. Nah. He gets confused because from Finn's perspective, he is obviously a stormtrooper deserter and is so focused on keeping his poo poo together (he is on the verge of a panic attack the whole time) that he's not thinking about anything but getting out.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:02
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Steve2911 posted:Not educating stormtroopers enough to teach them every droid language isn't the same as keeping them in the dark about the existence of their enemy. It's Effectronica. Being obtuse is his gimmick. Before long he'll start wishing death upon you.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:03
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Phylodox posted:Those are all one-sided conversations. People talk to Artoo and he understands them. They don't understand him, except in the broadest sense because of tone and "body" language. Empire Strikes Back even makes a point to cut to Luke's translator computer at one point to explain how he's able to understand what Artoo is saying. Actually, they do. Prove otherwise. Furthermore, Luke needs a translator because they're in space at that point and he can't actually hear R2 through a loving vacuum.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:04
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Effectronica posted:Actually, they do. Prove otherwise. Furthermore, Luke needs a translator because they're in space at that point and he can't actually hear R2 through a loving vacuum. Fine. Threepio has to translate R2's beeps for Luke. Example: "He says the restraining bolt is short-circuiting his playback system" (or words to that effect). e: Threepio does much the same on Hoth, when he's translating R2's estimates of Luke's survival and that his own little scanner can't locate him. 
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Jan 3, 2016 21:07
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Jose Oquendo posted:It's Effectronica. Being obtuse is his gimmick. Before long he'll start wishing death upon you. Are you the guy who I enraged so that he Googled my username,or was that another sadsack thirtysomething with a baseball namechange?
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Jan 3, 2016 21:08
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Effectronica posted:Actually, they do. Prove otherwise. Furthermore, Luke needs a translator because they're in space at that point and he can't actually hear R2 through a loving vacuum. When in a Star Wars movie has the fact that space is a vacuum ever prevented sound from being transmitted? (Though I thought it was like the navigation computer in that scene, because he's setting course for Dagobah.)
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Jan 3, 2016 21:09
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Doronin posted:I'd be interested to know how old Rey or Ben actually are. TFA takes place approximately 29 years after Jedi, I think. I would think that given the window of time, Rey and Kylo (yes, Ben was his given name) are probably too close in age for that to be a thing. We know both characters were born after Jedi, and Rey has been on Jakku for a very long time. I think the timing works out she's been on the planet like 15 years and I think I read that Ren is like 30.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:10
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Effectronica posted:Actually, they do. Prove otherwise. Furthermore, Luke needs a translator because they're in space at that point and he can't actually hear R2 through a loving vacuum. He doesn't require a translator to communicate with anyone else, even in space. Maxwell Lord posted:(Though I thought it was like the navigation computer in that scene, because he's setting course for Dagobah.) The way it's framed in the movie leaves little doubt that it's translating what Artoo is saying. Text flashes up on the screen as he beeps and boops, Luke looks at it, then responds.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:11
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Neurolimal posted:I feel that there is a world of difference between say, esteemed Vulcans wearing clothes and buildings inspiredby chinese culture, and ching chong chinagunray and his cyborg squint-eyed partner in greed. Are both racist? Sure. Do both equally offend and create the same reactions by asian viewers? I'd say no. lol
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Jan 3, 2016 21:15
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Finally got round to seeing this. Really liked it. Think it's probably my favourite SW film now, sort of tied with A New Hope and I don't really feel like deciding which one it is. One of those films that feels long but you end up not minding so much. I think I liked all the new characters at least a bit. Chewbacca was the best legacy character though. Anyway, I really like that the First Order come off as great big Empire fanboys who are trying too hard and Ren is basically the same for Vader. I really like that the big bad masked villain is just a huge dork who has temper tantrums and a reputation about it among his subordinates. There's other bits I liked, but that's the main one. Oh, the comic relief bits I really liked too. Main ones being the thumbs up, Chewie trying to get the nurse to see how brave he'd been, and the bit after the second Ren freakout where those two stormtroopers just look at each other and sneak off. Also the baddies should have blown up the Resistance and then the Republic rather than the other way round but Star Wars baddies making bad decisions with their superweapons is just par for the course.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:15
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Finn knowing what the resistance is I'd a plot hole because it doesn't match my personal fanfiction about what "conditioning" was and what the First Order's education system must have been. The fact that he can't talk to droids is proof he couldn't know what the resistance is.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:16
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Phylodox posted:The way it's framed in the movie leaves little doubt that it's translating what Artoo is saying. Text flashes up on the screen as he beeps and boops, Luke looks at it, then responds. Also, if I recall correctly, in Episode One when Anakin is accidentally flying the starfighter, Artoo says something and it appears on a screen in Aurabesh that translates to something like "Anakin turn the ship around right away".
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Jan 3, 2016 21:16
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Phylodox posted:He doesn't require a translator to communicate with anyone else, even in space. R2 is on the outside of the cockpit of the X-wing. Luke also needs a machine to communicate with the other pilots during Episode IV (source: the distortion applied to lines delivered in external shots of the ships). Now, we could assume that's just how things sound in Star Wars space if you yell loud enough.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:17
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Effectronica posted:R2 is on the outside of the cockpit of the X-wing. Luke also needs a machine to communicate with the other pilots during Episode IV (source: the distortion applied to lines delivered in external shots of the ships). Now, we could assume that's just how things sound in Star Wars space if you yell loud enough. Seems like ur stretching a bit here my man....but hell, who knows
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Jan 3, 2016 21:18
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Doronin posted:I'd be interested to know how old Rey or Ben actually are. TFA takes place approximately 29 years after Jedi, I think. I would think that given the window of time, Rey and Kylo (yes, Ben was his given name) are probably too close in age for that to be a thing. We know both characters were born after Jedi, and Rey has been on Jakku for a very long time. Rey is 19, Kylo is 29-30.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:19
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greatn posted:Finn knowing what the resistance is I'd a plot hole because it doesn't match my personal fanfiction about what "conditioning" was and what the First Order's education system must have been. Your hateful, incoherent gibberish has been rendered literal gibberish by your incompetence at writing. Beautiful. It's also beautiful that you're endorsing brainwashing as pleasant. I think the CIA is looking for guys like you, as long as you're not too squeamish to get your hands dirty. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 3, 2016 21:20
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Neurolimal posted:I feel that there is a world of difference between say, esteemed Vulcans wearing clothes and buildings inspiredby chinese culture, and ching chong chinagunray and his cyborg squint-eyed partner in greed. Are both racist? Sure. Do both equally offend and create the same reactions by asian viewers? I'd say no. Which asian viewers?
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Jan 3, 2016 21:20
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McDragon posted:Also the baddies should have blown up the Resistance and then the Republic rather than the other way round but Star Wars baddies making bad decisions with their superweapons is just par for the course. Baddies didn't know where the Resistance was. Its mentioned in the film that they learn where the Resistance is by following the recon flight the Resistance sends to confirm Finn giving them Starkiller Base's location.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:21
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Effectronica posted:R2 is on the outside of the cockpit of the X-wing. Luke also needs a machine to communicate with the other pilots during Episode IV (source: the distortion applied to lines delivered in external shots of the ships). Now, we could assume that's just how things sound in Star Wars space if you yell loud enough. Things happen in movies for a reason. If Luke needed the translator to communicate with Artoo because he couldn't hear him, then they wouldn't have used Artoo's sound effects. If he could hear Artoo and could understand him, then we wouldn't have needed the shot of the translator. The shot was meant to explain to us, the audience who already understands that only Threepio knows what Artoo is saying, how Luke is able to understand and respond to Artoo.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:22
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Effectronica posted:R2 is on the outside of the cockpit of the X-wing. Luke also needs a machine to communicate with the other pilots during Episode IV (source: the distortion applied to lines delivered in external shots of the ships). Now, we could assume that's just how things sound in Star Wars space if you yell loud enough. You still haven't addressed all the times R2's beeps have to be translated for the characters. Threepio translates R2's beeps for Luke in the garage on Tattooine, and again the next day when R2 detects the sandpeople approaching. Threepio translates R2's beeps for (I think) Leia at Echo Base. Threepio translates R2's beeps for Jabba in the throne room. The X-Wing translates R2's beeps for Luke on the way to Dagobah. None of this squares with: Effectronica posted:No, most of the characters can understand droids in the OT, and so can a lot of characters in this movie.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:24
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Phylodox posted:Things happen in movies for a reason. If Luke needed the translator to communicate with Artoo because he couldn't hear him, then they wouldn't have used Artoo's sound effects. If he could hear Artoo and could understand him, then we wouldn't have needed the shot of the translator. The shot was meant to explain to us, the audience who already understands that only Threepio knows what Artoo is saying, how Luke is able to understand and respond to Artoo. They use R2's sound effects, like the other sounds in space, to aid understanding. Hearing R2's whistles allows us, the audience, to know that he's talking, instead of Luke just talking to himself or (given ESB's animistic approach) the X-wing. Now, scifi fans are willfully stupid, so they assume that the sounds are diegetic and make lots of jokes about how ignorant Jorge "Satan" Lucas is, and this in turn has progressed from benign tumor to malignant cancer with the assumption that because we, the audience, can't understand R2, the other characters can't either. This in turn makes a lot of scenes bizarre, as Luke apparently is very friendly with someone he is unable to understand 99% of the time, and confides in him. Perhaps Luke is insane, and Episodes 5 and 6 are his hallucinations.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:26
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Effectronica posted:Your hateful, incoherent gibberish has been rendered literal gibberish by your incompetence at writing. Beautiful. You've ceased being amusing and are now becoming annoying. Maybe you should take a break.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:27
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Neurolimal posted:Personally, I don't feel that integrating dated ethnic stereotypes and culture into alien designs is particularly onerous, or of such offensiveness to require satire by way of directly offensive stereotypes given a rubber mask. Its funny that while recognizing that my attitude is vaguely colonial, when it comes to Sci-fi I find myself gravitating towards Chinamen.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:29
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Powered Descent posted:You still haven't addressed all the times R2's beeps have to be translated for the characters. 3PO translates those beeps for the sake of the audience. We know that Leia can understand R2 well enough to entrust him with the Death Star plans. We know that Luke has conversations with and confides in R2 on Dagobah. We know that at least one other character (Chewie) is incomprehensible to us but not to other characters (and not just Han, either). So, in conclusion, we should take the joke of R2 being incomprehensible and unsubtitled and only knowing what he says through people's reactions as a very serious matter. Next up: why do all these people scream in identical ways when they fall off something? Does the Empire train them to do so? Is it part of safety training?
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Jan 3, 2016 21:29
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Effectronica posted:3PO translates those beeps for the sake of the audience. We know that Leia can understand R2 well enough to entrust him with the Death Star plans. We know that Luke has conversations with and confides in R2 on Dagobah. So no one ever asks Threepio who he's talking to with these unnecessary translations; Leia has no prior knowledge of this droid that's been on her personal starship for literally her entire life; it's necessary for Leia to understand R2 in order to say "start recording a hologram of me, okay?"; and it's necessary for Luke to understand R2 for R2 to understand Luke. Got it.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:36
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