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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My fave part of the film is that Finn knew about the doomsday weapon from the very beginning, and didn't tell anyone until after it was used. a) He doesn't particularly give a poo poo about anything but running at this point. b) I need to rewatch it but IIRC the Rebellion already knows it exists, but they're not in a position to do anything about it.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:43
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Well, he pretending to be part of the Resistance and was trying to reach them in order to get away from the First Order. Presumably the first thing he would have said to them once he arrived and they called him out on not being one of them was "hey there is a super weapon that's gonna wipe you all out, we need to get the hell out of here". Like, what good would telling Rey or Han have done, other than outing him as not a member of the Resistance?
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Jan 3, 2016 19:46
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My fave part of the film is that Finn knew about the doomsday weapon from the very beginning, and didn't tell anyone until after it was used. That's a close second to his cheering and laughing as he murders his former coworkers for me. Steve2911 posted:a) He doesn't particularly give a poo poo about anything but running at this point. They don't, since they send a reconnaissance flyby to locate it after it fires.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:47
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Yeah, the weapon took everyone by surprise. Instead of being like "why didn't you tell us about the genocide machine?", Leia thanks Finn for helping Poe find her brother. That tells us where the priorities lie.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:48
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And yes Finn is a flawed, slightly hosed up character. Which is both interesting and entertaining.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:50
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Favorite scene number 3 is probably Finn, who doesn't know about the existence of the Resistance, nevertheless being pro-Rebel and geeked out to meet some former Rebels.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Yeah, the weapon took everyone by surprise. Leia meets Finn after the weapon has already fired. His only opportunity to tell anyone would have been to tell Poe in the 5 minutes they were escaping, while fighting off enemies, before they crash landed.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:53
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Steve2911 posted:Aww Last Crusade is the best one. You have chosen...poorly. It's a lazy, unimaginative retread of a superior film with added Comedy Dad. It's comfortably The Worst of the series. Hell, there are even episodes of the TV show that are more interesting. 
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Jan 3, 2016 20:00
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Effectronica posted:Favorite scene number 3 is probably Finn, who doesn't know about the existence of the Resistance, nevertheless being pro-Rebel and geeked out to meet some former Rebels. Yeah shouldn't his perspective on Han Solo be more anti than pro? Like, "you're the guy who hosed up the galaxy?"
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Jan 3, 2016 20:01
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porfiria posted:Yeah shouldn't his perspective on Han Solo be more anti than pro? Like, "you're the guy who hosed up the galaxy?" 
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Jan 3, 2016 20:07
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Effectronica posted:Favorite scene number 3 is probably Finn, who doesn't know about the existence of the Resistance, nevertheless being pro-Rebel and geeked out to meet some former Rebels. Being raised in a military structure he would absofuckinlutely have learned military history and the names of famous generals, especially of the enemy. I wouldn't clarify his reaction as pro-rebel rather than sheer awe. Just as I'm sure a young southerner would be shocked to find themselves on Sherman's train in 1890. Finn's already decided he's not First Order, and that extends to not being Imperial. Just like the young southerner in this example decided he ain't gonna fly the rebel flag no more and isn't gonna dress in white. greatn fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 3, 2016 |
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Jan 3, 2016 20:11
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greatn posted:Being raised in a military structure he would absofuckinlutely have learned military history and the names of famous generals, especially of the enemy. I'm sure the stormtroopers they abuse and torture into perfect compliance are also well-educated, but that, um, misses the basic thrust of my post.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:14
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Cnut the Great posted:the Emperor has no clothes You made me picture Palpatine naked! 
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Jan 3, 2016 20:15
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Effectronica posted:I'm sure the stormtroopers they abuse and torture into perfect compliance are also well-educated, but that, um, misses the basic thrust of my post. The point of the scene is that Han has been around the galaxy and done everything there is to do, shown by Finn, via his life situation knowing Han as a general and super important Rebellion person and Rey, via her life situation knowing Han as a legendary criminal. Chewbacca probably sums it up best when they both ask him about the "real" Han at the end of that scene.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:19
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Neo Rasa posted:The point of the scene is that Han has been around the galaxy and done everything there is to do, shown by Finn, via his life situation knowing Han as a general and super important Rebellion person and Rey, via her life situation knowing Han as a legendary criminal. Chewbacca probably sums it up best when they both ask him about the "real" Han at the end of that scene. And this is communicated by having the character who is ignorant and only aware of what the First Order tells him joyed to meet a general of the Rebellion, which is an interesting choice on the part of the screenwriter and director and actor. Edit: "Erich Ludendorff! You're the real Erich Ludendorff! This is such an honor," the young maquisard exclaimed.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:25
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Effectronica posted:And this is communicated by having the character who is ignorant and only aware of what the First Order tells him joyed to meet a general of the Rebellion, which is an interesting choice on the part of the screenwriter and director and actor. I'd call him shocked, not joyed.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:28
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Effectronica posted:And this is communicated by having the character who is ignorant and only aware of what the First Order tells him joyed to meet a general of the Rebellion, which is an interesting choice on the part of the screenwriter and director and actor. Finn has seen what the First Order is all about, and roundly rejected them. It's not too much of a stretch that he might identify with someone famous for resisting their spiritual predecessor. Also, I think people are rather missing the point of the First Order in general, complaining about how "small" and "unimpressive" it is. People aren't afraid of huge, monolithic superpowers anymore. They're afraid of terrorist cells and rogue nations. While Kylo Ren represents the spectre of radical Islam, the First Order is North Korea, a small, insane, kind of pathetic cult of personality that, nonetheless, would be terrifying if it ever had the ability to lash out with nuclear destruction.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:30
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He's already made the decision to abandon and directly oppose (via murder) the First Order. It's not like he wound up getting separated from his squad and accidentally crossing paths with the resistance. 'You fought against the people who kidnapped and brainwashed me! That's good!' isn't exactly the weirdest thing for him to be saying.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:32
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Why, instead of the character who openly idolizes the Rebellion, Rey, does Finn get that line? Why does Finn know who Han Solo and Luke Skywalker are, when he doesn't know what the Resistance is?
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Jan 3, 2016 20:36
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Why do you keep saying that Finn doesn't know about the resistance? He goes on a mission to kill the resistance on Jakku. Hux openly discusses the resistance to the troops. It's not a secret!!!
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Jan 3, 2016 20:38
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Effectronica posted:Why, instead of the character who openly idolizes the Rebellion, Rey, does Finn get that line? Why does Finn know who Han Solo and Luke Skywalker are, when he doesn't know what the Resistance is? Because everyone probably knows who they are. He probably learned everything he ever needed to know about them just from listening to Kylo Ren muttering under his breath.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:38
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Where is it shown he doesn't know what the Resistance is at all? Afterall, first thing he does when he decides to desert is to go rescue the Resistance pilot that got captured in the raid he was a participant in earlier.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:39
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Where is is stated Finn does not know what the Resistance is. They're the sworn enemy of the First Order. I imagine the topic would have come up somewhere in his brainwashing sessions. edit: lol
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Jan 3, 2016 20:39
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Proposition Joe posted:Why do you keep saying that Finn doesn't know about the resistance? He goes on a mission to kill the resistance on Jakku. Hux openly discusses the resistance to the troops. It's not a secret!!! Because when Poe asks if he's with the Resistance, he has no idea what Poe is talking about. Because he's our audience-identification character, structurally, he's aware of what we knew about before but not about what's new, and he largely shares our opinions about them. So why make the character a stormtrooper, then?
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Jan 3, 2016 20:41
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Effectronica posted:Why, instead of the character who openly idolizes the Rebellion, Rey, does Finn get that line? Why does Finn know who Han Solo and Luke Skywalker are, when he doesn't know what the Resistance is? He very much knows who the resistance were, his best chance for escape. The first order knows more about the resistance and Luke Skywalker than the republic does. Why do you think their footsoldiers have standard issue anti lightsaber weapons for the all of one Jedi that exists? They know who the gently caress Luke Skywalker is.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:42
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In fact the answer to your question about why Rey knows Han Solo as a smuggler and Finn knows him as a general is obvious. Finn grew up in a military lifestyle where he would have been educated in military history, so he knows about Han Solo as a general through those lessons. Rey knows Han Solo as a smuggler because she grew up listening to Star Wars not as a military history like Finn but as a fairy tale, like the audience did.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:42
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Proposition Joe posted:In fact the answer to your question about why Rey knows Han Solo as a smuggler and Finn knows him as a general is obvious. Finn grew up in a military lifestyle where he would have been educated in military history, so he knows about Han Solo as a general through those lessons. Rey knows Han Solo as a smuggler because she grew up listening to Star Wars not as a military history like Finn but as a fairy tale, like the audience did. Has he been educated? Stormtroopers are tortured and abused to keep them from having independent thoughts, and he's ignorant in ways other characters aren't (can't understand BB-8, for one thing).
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Jan 3, 2016 20:44
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Effectronica posted:Because when Poe asks if he's with the Resistance, he has no idea what Poe is talking about. Because he's our audience-identification character, structurally, he's aware of what we knew about before but not about what's new, and he largely shares our opinions about them. So why make the character a stormtrooper, then? No, you misunderstood that scene because you're an idiot. Poe asks Finn if he is with the resistance, Finn replies that he is not with the Resistance and that he is rescuing Poe because it is, "the right thing to do" before Poe susses out that Finn is going AWOL and needs a pilot. None of this suggests that Finn is unaware of the Resistance.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:46
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Effectronica posted:Has he been educated? Stormtroopers are tortured and abused to keep them from having independent thoughts, and he's ignorant in ways other characters aren't (can't understand BB-8, for one thing). You are putting your own assumptions on what their conditioning is. And that's not even germane as to what their education would be.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:46
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quote:Has he been educated? Since he knows who Luke and Han are and what the Resistance is, it's pretty likely it came up at some point.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:47
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Effectronica posted:Has he been educated? Stormtroopers are tortured and abused to keep them from having independent thoughts, and he's ignorant in ways other characters aren't (can't understand BB-8, for one thing). You're making assumptions. We don't know that stormtroopers are "tortured" or "abused", only that they are "conditioned". We have no idea what that entails. We also don't know how ignorant stormtroopers are kept. And Finn not understanding BB-8 is less about how ignorant he is than how knowledgeable Rey is, despite her isolated upbringing.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:47
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Personally, I don't feel that integrating dated ethnic stereotypes and culture into alien designs is particularly onerous, or of such offensiveness to require satire by way of directly offensive stereotypes given a rubber mask. The best example I can think of is Speedy Gonzales; his cartoons weren't added to a few Looney Tunes DVD's because of fear that they would offend. Instead, a number of hispanic fans were annoyed that he wasn't on-disc, because they actually enjoyed and had an attachment to the character as a positive hispanic protagonist and representation for hispanic kids, even with his dated cliches regarding mexicans. I feel that there is a world of difference between say, esteemed Vulcans wearing clothes and buildings inspiredby chinese culture, and ching chong chinagunray and his cyborg squint-eyed partner in greed. Are both racist? Sure. Do both equally offend and create the same reactions by asian viewers? I'd say no. The closest personal relation I can think of would be vibrant aliens that are super progressive WRT loving everything. They're typically blatantly inspired by american LGBQT culture and values, but I don't have any problems with the representation because it's both treated as a positive thing (usually, coughMarsNeedsMoms), and is at least some sort of representation; Blaxploitation was most certainly based on racism and usually racist, but it's undeniable that it resulted in a number of immensely talented black actors who otherwise would have never made it, and there's a reason that it still has many black fans and loving satires like Black Dynamite.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:49
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This thread moves too fast. Anyway I don't know if anyone else has brought this up but, Has anyone talked about the idea that Kylo Ren is the one that dropped Rey off on Jakku? When that trooper says a girl has joined the group he goes ballistic. I wonder if Rey was among the Jedi Academy that Ren shot up and maybe for some reason Rey as a little girl was special or Ren couldn't bring himself to kill her? He clearly knew who she was. Also so Kylo Ren's real name is Ben? I realized this on second viewing.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:49
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Proposition Joe posted:No, you misunderstood that scene because you're an idiot. Finn says "What?" and is visibly and audibly confused when Poe asks him if he's with the Resistance. He then says, "No, this is a rescue," which would be a non sequitur if he knew what the Resistance was. I'm sorry you're mentally handicapped.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:50
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kiimo posted:This thread moves too fast. Anyway I don't know if anyone else has brought this up but, It's being discussed in the spoiler thread and it's a definite possibility.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:50
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kiimo posted:This thread moves too fast. Anyway I don't know if anyone else has brought this up but, It's come up, and I support the theory myself; I can totally see Kylo, just starting his descent, so close to Luke, failing to bring himself to kill a literal child.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:52
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Effectronica posted:They shouldn't be taken seriously! Their names are Phantasm, Smoke, and Huckster. Phasma, Snoke, and Hux.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:52
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Effectronica posted:Finn says "What?" and is visibly and audibly confused when Poe asks him if he's with the Resistance. He then says, "No, this is a rescue," which would be a non sequitur if he knew what the Resistance was. I'm sorry you're mentally handicapped. Finn says, "What?" because he is surprised that someone would think he is in the Resistance when he is in fact not.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:52
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Phylodox posted:You're making assumptions. We don't know that stormtroopers are "tortured" or "abused", only that they are "conditioned". We have no idea what that entails. We also don't know how ignorant stormtroopers are kept. And Finn not understanding BB-8 is less about how ignorant he is than how knowledgeable Rey is, despite her isolated upbringing. No, most of the characters can understand droids in the OT, and so can a lot of characters in this movie. greatn posted:You are putting your own assumptions on what their conditioning is. Okay, it's a friendly green light because the movie is neutral on whether it's bad or not.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:53
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jivjov posted:Phasma, Snoke, and Hux. Good shtick.
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