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Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I do like the Federalists, but I hate Britain far more. Let's show those tea-slurpers what for! Let's show them what American arms and resolve can do, show them that this is our continent!

Vive Madison and Vive la France!

oh poo poo i really should have voted for madison out of pure francophilia

oh well

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TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002

Empress Theonora posted:

oh poo poo i really should have voted for madison out of pure francophilia

oh well

It's better to keep the United States out of the 1812 war than to hump France, because the support of the United States means poo poo-all nothing either way once Napoleon is a thing.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I do like the Federalists, but I hate Britain far more. Let's show those tea-slurpers what for! Let's show them what American arms and resolve can do, show them that this is our continent!

Vive Madison and Vive la France!



JOHN BULL: "Stop...Brother Jonathan, or I shall fall with the loss of blood -- I thought to have been too heavy for you -- But I must acknowledge your superior skill -- Two blows to my one! -- And so well directed too! Mercy, mercy on me, how does this happen!!!"

JAMES MADISON: "Ha-Ah Johnny! you thought yourself a "Boxer" did you! -- I'll let you know we are an "Enterprize"ing Nation. and ready to meet you with equal force any day."

Wrap it up, Federafailures, Madison has got this fight in the bag.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 03:28 on Dec 29, 2015

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

TEAYCHES posted:

It's better to keep the United States out of the 1812 war than to hump France, because the support of the United States means poo poo-all nothing either way once Napoleon is a thing.

Napoleon has been a thing since he became First Consul in 1799. And how! I wish him luck and triumph in his glorious struggle against Britain's Coalitions of reactionaries! A struggle we must do our part in!

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I do like the Federalists, but I hate Britain far more. Let's show those tea-slurpers what for! Let's show them what American arms and resolve can do, show them that this is our continent!

Vive Madison and Vive la France!

This but, for Clinton. Have you seen these mewling loyalists in Canada? They deserve to be part of our strong American nation.

While I am generally in favor of peace, I now believe that the would be lords of America fear a standing army because it may become an army of the people, that will turn against them with enough power.

We will free the slaves, kill the slavers and lords and be equals! This is the glory and enlightenment of Man!

the paradigm shift
Jan 18, 2006

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I do like the Federalists, but I hate Britain far more. Let's show those tea-slurpers what for! Let's show them what American arms and resolve can do, show them that this is our continent!

Vive Madison and Vive la France!

Agreeing with this post and putting in my vote for Maddy, the country will not survive long if we don't push back against those tyrannical limey jackasses.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

QuoProQuid posted:

Thank you. I love reading the comments in the thread as posters try to convince one another to support a candidate. I'm sure there will be some interesting discussions as the Federalists die out and elections become more contentious.

And thank you, for this thread led me to finally memorize "His High Mightiness, President of the United States and Protector of Their Liberties." I'm a little tempted to pull out an Adams-proposed title if ever I am in a position to speak to a sitting or former POTUS.


Also, I have to say, I hadn't realized what a mess of contrary positions I staked out when I determined my position in these early elections. Pro Federalist, pro France, anti England, anti Slavery. Right now, my lingering hatred of the Southern motherfucking Democratic-Republicans is contending against my desire to conquer Canada, drive the British off our continent, and take their valuable fur trade. (My US History teacher was a Canadian.)

A Clinton/King ticket, with Madison as Secretary of War ... would make no sense, honestly, but I'm not sure how to accommodate my desires. Not that I get the choice, thank you Jefferson. :argh:

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Im a hippie pacifist and also wanna abolish slavery so Clinton it is!

Edit: I also wanna thank QuoProQuid for keeping up with this, I'm sure it's a daunting task so I wanna say I totally appreciate it!

RagnarokAngel has issued a correction as of 17:26 on Dec 29, 2015

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Thank you all for voting. DeWitt Clinton has achieved victory. His running mate, Jared Ingersoll will serve alongside him. With the British preparing to march on the Capital, though, it’s unclear whether His Elective Majesty will govern over anything except ash.

Though the situation remains dire, Americans retain hope that Clinton will guide the military toward peace. If this country is to survive, a strong, national army will be necessary.



RESULTS BREAKDOWN

Most Popular Ticket:

DeWitt Clinton / Jared Ingersoll (Democratic-Republican/ Federalist) - 36 votes (48.6%)
Rufus King / William Richardson Davie (Federalist) - 27 votes (36.5%)
James Madison / Elbridge Gerry (Democratic-Republican) - 11 votes (14.9%)

Most Popular Parties:

Federalist Party - 45 votes (60.8%)
Democratic-Republican Party - 29 votes (39.2%)

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 15:07 on Jan 3, 2016

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

ELECTION OF 1816

:siren: Click here to vote in the Election of 1816! :siren:



Background:

The Election of 1816 is the first national election to take place in the aftermath of the War of 1812. While the war did not end in American victory, American voters are largely satisfied by the terms of peace. Native Americans along the Western and Southern borders have been suppressed. The British have agreed to respect American sovereignty. The victory at New Orleans has given the nation a war hero in the form of Andrew Jackson. Nearly everyone is happy.

Well, most everyone. Madison’s re-election in 1812 led to the British strengthening their blockade around New England. Frustrated with the economic destruction unleashed on them and suspicious of Madison’s commitment to northern security, Federalist leaders met in Hartford to discuss their grievances and chart a strategy against Democratic-Republican tyranny. When the Convention ended, the Federalists published a report asserting New England’s “duty” to assert its authority over unconstitutional activities via nullification. It also demanded numerous amendments to the Constitution, such as an end to the three-fifths compromise, limiting the Presidents to one term, and requiring each President to be from a different state from his predecessor.

Unfortunately, the Convention also attracted more radical proposals. Some delegates recommended that New England unilaterally expel the Western states from the Union. Others advocated a separate peace with England or outright secession. This talk seems to have confirmed the worst Democratic-Republican propaganda and revealed the Federalists as pseudo-royalists. Andrew Jackson’s overwhelming victory at the Battle of New Orleans has further humiliated the party and caused mass defections to the Democratic-Republicans. It seems unlikely that the party will survive for much longer.

As the Federalist Party collapses beneath its own weight, Monroe has encouraged Americans to abandon their petty political differences. With Madison adopting several Federalist policies, including the establishment of a national bank and institution of protective tariffs, it seems that the United States is poised to become a one party state. Regardless of what happens, the future looks bright for the new republic. America has weathered the worst of the storm. Whatever suffering he might have caused, Madison has proved that the Revolutionary War wasn’t a fluke.

The Candidates:

DEMOCRATIC-REPUBLICAN PARTY CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee: James Monroe
  • Notable Positions: Governor of Virginia, Ambassador to France, United States Senator from Virginia, Delegate to the Congress of the Confederation from Virginia
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic-Republican Party
  • Biography: Few men have been as accomplished a candidate as James Monroe. His resume includes outstanding service in the Revolutionary War, participation in the Continental Congress, leadership in the U.S. Senate, and strong management of the Department of State and Department of War. Monroe has negotiated multiple treaties, including the Louisiana Purchase, and oversaw the latter half of the War of 1812. Throughout his career, he has been noted for his integrity, frankness, and humility. Though opposed by some for continuing the “Virginia Dynasty,” Monroe is almost universally beloved by his party and the nation at large.
  • Platform: After the chaos unleashed by the War of 1812, James Madison hopes to reunite the country together and bring about an “Era of Good Feeling.” A strong advocate of his fellow Virginian, George Washington, Monroe believes that the United States must chart an independent course for itself and avoid unnecessary entanglements with European powers. He further believes that the President must represent all Americans, not just his state or his party. Monroe has promised to assemble a Cabinet based on skill, not geography or political ideology. Many suspect that Monroe views partisanship as a threat to the Union and wants to amalgamate the Democratic-Republican and Federalist Parties. In all other affairs, Monroe takes a strict constitutionalist approach to the powers of the presidency, believing that minor inconveniences are preferable to possible tyranny. Monroe believes in the necessity of public works projects and the occasional need for government intervention into the economy, but vows not use either policy to resolve domestic problems until the Constitution is amended to explicitly allow such actions. Monroe is a slaveowner, but considers the institution to be a necessary evil. He has proposed a system of gradual abolition, wherein former slaves will be deported to Africa. He tolerates the Bank of the United States and Madison’s policy on tariffs.


Vice Presidential Nominee: Daniel D. Tompkins
  • Notable Positions: Governor of New York, New York Supreme Court Justice, Delegate to the New York State Constitutional Convention
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic-Republican Party
  • Biography: Before the War of 1812, Tompkins was a distinguished New York jurist who devoted his life to preserving the independence of New York and its people. When the state legislature refused to properly arm the state militia, Tompson spent much of his personal fortune to pay for what he could. When he ran out of money, Tompkins took out massive loans to prevent the state’s destruction from British forces. When Madison struggled to appoint a military commander to oversee New York City, Tompkins took the position. Though these actions have earned Tompkins the respect of some leaders, it has had a devastating impact on his health and psyche. Tompkins has been reduced to a shell of his former self and spends most of his time drinking. His financial situation is ruined and seems incapable of performing basic administrative duties. Federalists have accused him of corruption and deceit, further undermining his mental condition. Despite this, Tompkins was considered one of Monroe’s biggest rivals for the Democratic-Republican nomination for his energetic conduct during the war.
  • Platform: Before descending into drunkenness, Tompkins was an enthusiastic supporter of state rights. He believed in the need for individual states to share the burden of responsibility with the federal government. He supported improvements to the New York state militia and public works, more generally. He also advocated for the gradual abolition of slavery.


FEDERALIST PARTY CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee Rufus King
  • Notable Positions: United States Senator from New York, Diplomat to the United Kingdom, New York State Assemblyman, Delegate at the Constitutional Convention
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Rufus King is known as the Last Great Federalist. The son of a Massachusetts farmer-merchant-lumberman-sea captain, King had a pleasant childhood until an angry mob ransacked his childhood home in a fit of revolutionary passion. The incident proved to be a formative experience for King, who went on to the Constitutional Convention to condemn Jeffersonian populism and (eventually) the destruction of the Articles of Confederation. Working closely with Alexander Hamilton, King helped prepare a final draft of the United States Constitution and used his oratory to ensure its ratification. Though King has struggled in politics, he does have the respect of prominent people within both major parties. He is also a friend of Francisco de Miranda, a little-known revolutionary and South American dissident.
  • Platform: Having been personally affected by mob violence, King believes in a strong central government that will be vigilant against threats, both inside and out. The national government must have the power to act against mob violence, as it did during the Whiskey Rebellion. It must also be strong enough to raise and control a large national army, so as to avoid conquest or a military coup. King believes that the United States should not align itself with European powers, but seek to end their domination of North and South America. He views Hamiltonian economic reforms as essential to the country’s future. King supports halting the expansion of slavery but is willing “to suffer the continuance of slaves until they can be gradually emancipated in states already overrun with them.” King is a supporter of Madison’s Second Bank of the United States and has applauded the Democratic-Republicans for their policy on tarriffs.


Vice Presidential Nominee John Eager Howard
  • Notable Positions: President pro tempore of the United States Senate, United States Senator from Maryland, Governor of Maryland, Colonel in the Continental Army
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: John Eager Howard was a prominent force in Maryland politics throughout the Revolutionary War and Washington Administration. Due to his reputation “as a good an officer as the world affords… [with] the best disposition to promote the [military] service,” Washington offered him an appointment as the Secretary of War. From 1797 to 1803 Howard served as a Federalist leader in the United States Senate. He has since returned to Baltimore where he is semi-retired. Howard supports several philanthropic causes, including the American Antiquarian Society. During the War of 1812 he helped raise funds to support the Maryland militia.
  • Platform: Howard has not campaigned to be on the ballot and is supported almost exclusively because of his administrative and military capabilities. Howard is a traditional Federallist, supporting a strong national government and ties with the United Kingdom. He believes that the country must establish a strong national military to safeguard independence.


Vice Presidential Nominee James Ross
  • Notable Positions: United States Senator from Pennsylvania
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: James Ross is a third generation immigrant with ties to Ireland. A minor leader within Pennsylvania, Ross served in the Revolutionary War alongside Colonel Crawford’s ill-gated Sandusky Expedition, which saw the Pennsylvania militia devastated by Native Americans. During the Washington Administration, Ross served as the chief negotiator between the federal government and the orchestrators of the Whiskey Rebellion. Since then, Ross has opened a successful law firm in Philadelphia. He is known for his unconventional theological views and has been frequently accused of atheism. He unsuccessfully ran for Governor of Pennsylvania in 1799, 1802, and 1808.
  • Platform: James Ross is a strong advocate of equal rights under the law, regardless of religion or national origin. During the Pennsylvania Convention Ross argued against religious tests. He is a moderating force in Pennsylvania politics and has argued against the use of force to achieve political ends. He is otherwise a normal Federalist who supports fortifying the banks and strengthening the federal government’s ability to intervene in state affairs.


Vice Presidential Nominee John Marshall
  • Notable Positions: Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, United States Secretary of State, U.S. Representative from Virginia
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: John Marshal is one of the most respected leaders in the country and, perhaps, one of the few Federalists capable of being elected. During his teenage years, Marshall was inspired to join the Continental Army after his hero, George Washington, joined the rebellion. Throughout the conflict he made great achievements and used this reputation to start a successful career in Virginia politics. An ally to the Federalists, Marshall used his personal reputation to ensure Virginia’s ratification of the Constitution. Though he was offered countless appointments by Washington and Adams, Marshall did not accept a cabinet position until 1800 as Secretary of State. His tenure turned out to be short, however, when Marshall was unexpectedly appointed Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
  • Platform: John Marshall has not campaigned for the Vice Presidency and would rather remain in the Supreme Court, where he can maintain Federalist supremacy. From his position, Marshall has helped form the bedrock of American constitutional law and ensured the judicial branch’s independence in all affairs. His most prominent ruling, Marbury v. Madison (1803), established the Court’s power of judicial review, a doctrine which allows the courts to invalidate laws that contradict the Constitution. Marshall believes in an expansive interpretation of the Constitution, wherein officials have powers beyond those that are explicitly listed. He supports the institution of a national bank and supports public works projects. Marshall believes in a strong national government, but is cautious about handling cases with potentially explosive implications. He is disgusted by slavery but is reluctant to act on it should the issue destroy national unity.


Vice Presidential Nominee Robert Goodloe Harper
  • Notable Positions: United States Senator from Maryland, U.S. Representative from South Carolina
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Harper is a minor figure within the Federalist Party who served South Carolina from 1790 until 1800, until he was displaced by Democratic-Republican opposition. During his short career, Harper oversaw the impeachment against William Blout, who sought to carve a personal fiefdom out of Louisiana, and participated in the XYZ Affair. When French Foreign Minister Talleyrand said that attacks on American ships would end if the United States paid him $250,000, Harper defiantly replied that he would pay, “millions for defense but not one cent toward tribute.” After being run out of South Carolina by the Democratic-Republicans, Harper moved to Baltimore, one of the last Federalist strongholds in the nation. He served in the War of 1812.
  • Platform: Harper is a moderate Federalist. He despises France and seeks greater ties with the United Kingdom, especially after the fiasco of 1812. Harper believes in a strong central government, empowered through a state banking system. Harper supports the gradual abolition of slavery and is working with his friends, John Randolph and Henry Clay, to ship freed slaves to the African east coast.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 15:07 on Jan 3, 2016

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

As with before, I'll be counting Presidential and Vice Presidential votes across tickets. If the "James Monroe / Daniel D. Tompkins" ticket gets three (3) votes but "Rufus King / John Eager Howard" and "Rufus King / John Marshall" tickets get two (2) apiece then I will list the winner as "Rufus King (Federalist) / Daniel D. Tompkins (Democratic-Republican)."

And given we're a decade past the death of Alexander Hamilton, we're probably going to need a new thread title.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 15:57 on Jan 3, 2016

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Monroe/Tompkins '16, though this is more of an "against King" vote than it is anything else.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Edit: 502 double post, sorry.

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)
Satisfied with the outcome? Bah! We could have taken the snickering Canadians laughing about burning down the White House. The King could have been dragged out and shot! We just needed a surge and to not change horses in midstream.

Why should people who've been trapped here in slavery for generations be forced back to Africa?

Bah.

King/Ross.

Sax Mortar
Aug 24, 2004
I no longer am Federalist until I die :(

the paradigm shift
Jan 18, 2006

I shall have to vote King/Marshall in the hopes that they don't repeat the Monroe doctrine

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011
King/Ross, a Ticket for a more tolerant America, and we all love tolerance, don't we?

QuoProQuid posted:

And given we're a decade past the death of Alexander Hamilton, we're probably going to need a new thread title.

SA Decides, 1788-2000: "Shoot Henry Clay and Hang John C. Calhoun"

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015

Ibogaine posted:

James Monroe seems to be the least odious man of them all, so he's got my vote.

At least compared to King, I still feel the same after all these years, so Monroe/Tompkins it is.

Furthermore, at the moment, gradual abolition seems to be the best option offered to a single issue voter like me, while Tompkins approach to booze will at least keep him from making things any worse.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

karmicknight posted:

SA Decides, 1788-2000: "Shoot Henry Clay and Hang John C. Calhoun"

can i preemptively vote for doing this?

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!

QuoProQuid posted:

And given we're a decade past the death of Alexander Hamilton, we're probably going to need a new thread title.

SA Decides, 1788-2000: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Your Story?

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.
SA Decides, 1788-2000: Trail of Democratic-Republican Tears

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

Eh, I'm going with King/Howard. Let's get this country up and running.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

King/anyone

hashtag king lyfe

hashtag federalist lyfe

hashtag federalist til i die

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002

Rufus King

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

No Gods, No Rufus Kings!

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Holding my nose for King/Ross. What a lovely election year.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

RagnarokAngel posted:

Holding my nose for King/Ross. What a lovely election year.

yeah but we'll get to elect JQA a half dozen times soon

oystertoadfish
Jun 17, 2003

this is the last chance we have to vote for king, don't ruin it :mad:

the alcoholic would be the candidate I would most like to have a beer with but I think my VP vote will go to the crypto atheist

Octatonic
Sep 7, 2010

I feel like we are now starting to enter the period of US history I know the least about. Like, the civil war, I get, the 20th century, I get, but the politics of this period and its actors seem kind of alien to me. It's such a completely different country in the early 19th century -- expansionist and vulnerable (and genocidal), but not yet a major player in regional or world affairs. What really is the point that the US stops being a wayward British colony, and starts being its own thing on the world stage? Did it happen at all before the (end of the) First World War?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Octatonic posted:

What really is the point that the US stops being a wayward British colony, and starts being its own thing on the world stage? Did it happen at all before the (end of the) First World War?

The U.S. surpassed the U.K. (though not the whole of the empire) in GDP circa 1870, so I’d say no later than that.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Octatonic posted:

I feel like we are now starting to enter the period of US history I know the least about. Like, the civil war, I get, the 20th century, I get, but the politics of this period and its actors seem kind of alien to me. It's such a completely different country in the early 19th century -- expansionist and vulnerable (and genocidal), but not yet a major player in regional or world affairs. What really is the point that the US stops being a wayward British colony, and starts being its own thing on the world stage? Did it happen at all before the (end of the) First World War?

this might just be because the ACW is the period i know the most about but I feel the conclusion of the civil war did it. industrialization was kicking off (during a massive war no less), we had inaugurated the age of iron warships and with the south conquered we brow beat Napoleon the 3rd out of Mexico

Octatonic
Sep 7, 2010

That makes sense, thanks! I guess my highschool education sort of gave me the impression that the US spent a lot of the 19th century buying colonial castoffs from Europe, doing some violence to its neighbors, blowing itself up over whether or not you can own human beings, then suddenly becoming "a player" in the 20th century, but I feel like that's not a really complete picture. I like threads like this for maybe filling in at least domestic politics a little bit for me.

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011
A thing to remember about James Monroe (the loser who won this shitheap of an election and the farcical comedy of the election of 1820) and JQA (Monroe's Secretary of State and future Elective Majesty President) was that the Monroe doctrine was entirely serious when they made it. From the perspective of the US at this time, they were the premier player on the Americas. However, internal tensions, religious zeal, expansionism and loving Texans are a big part of the American identity for this period (Era of Good Feelings to the start of the Civil War). With this election, Jackson hasn't made politics an issue the common man thinks about yet so we're still dealing with times where an endorsement can come from a political enemy because the other option has no beliefs.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004
College Slice

karmicknight posted:

A thing to remember about James Monroe (the loser who won this shitheap of an election and the farcical comedy of the election of 1820) and JQA (Monroe's Secretary of State and future Elective Majesty President) was that the Monroe doctrine was entirely serious when they made it. From the perspective of the US at this time, they were the premier player on the Americas. However, internal tensions, religious zeal, expansionism and loving Texans are a big part of the American identity for this period (Era of Good Feelings to the start of the Civil War). With this election, Jackson hasn't made politics an issue the common man thinks about yet so we're still dealing with times where an endorsement can come from a political enemy because the other option has no beliefs.

Voted Monroe

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

karmicknight posted:

A thing to remember about James Monroe (the loser who won this shitheap of an election and the farcical comedy of the election of 1820) and JQA (Monroe's Secretary of State and future Elective Majesty President) was that the Monroe doctrine was entirely serious when they made it. From the perspective of the US at this time, they were the premier player on the Americas. However, internal tensions, religious zeal, expansionism and loving Texans are a big part of the American identity for this period (Era of Good Feelings to the start of the Civil War). With this election, Jackson hasn't made politics an issue the common man thinks about yet so we're still dealing with times where an endorsement can come from a political enemy because the other option has no beliefs.

The common man was already thinking about politics, he just couldn't yet vote.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

Platystemon posted:

The U.S. surpassed the U.K. (though not the whole of the empire) in GDP circa 1870, so I’d say no later than that.

I'd say the rep as a major power was solidified between this time and the end of the Spanish-American war.

exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.
King/Marshall ftw

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004
College Slice

Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:

I'd say the rep as a major power was solidified between this time and the end of the Spanish-American war.

I think the end of the civil war is a useful point at least as far as discussing it, but if you want to argue the Spanish-American war, I wouldn't really fight you over it. the 1860s-1890s was the period when the US industrialized (especially in the north) and developed the necessary global reach, particularly in the Pacific Ocean, to be on a par with the British/French/Dutch/Spanish/Portugese in global affairs - affirmed by the haul of land in the Spanish-American war. The US did not move beyond being 'one of' the great powers until 1944 at the earliest.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Feral_Shofixti posted:

I think the end of the civil war is a useful point at least as far as discussing it, but if you want to argue the Spanish-American war, I wouldn't really fight you over it. the 1860s-1890s was the period when the US industrialized (especially in the north) and developed the necessary global reach, particularly in the Pacific Ocean, to be on a par with the British/French/Dutch/Spanish/Portugese in global affairs - affirmed by the haul of land in the Spanish-American war. The US did not move beyond being 'one of' the great powers until 1944 at the earliest.

The U.S. definitely lacked the ability to “project force”, in the modern parlance, till at least the Spanish–American War.

The Union Navy was impressive for its day, but it wasn’t a blue water navy and it went to seed immediately after the war.

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inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
There's some kind of bizarre but great irony in how the majority of this thread aligns with what is the more conservative (with respect to its current political environment) party, and I can't help but love it.

Monroe seems like a pretty okay Democractic-Republican, but as usual the Federalists have it more right anyway. King/Ross

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