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Harime Nui posted:Hey does anybody else remember the awesome symbolism at the start of the movie of the white and the black horses rushing side by side? Now are they running with each other as a team or are they racing against each other, is certainly a question. Actually I sort of take issue with this movie's idea of age..... Walton Goggins is not a young man and Michael Madsen is grandpa age but they are both treated as "kids" by Sam Jackson and Kurt Russell, who of course are ancients themselves.... feels weird the script seems to consider some people young when nobody in this movie really is As for the age thing, Tarantino's directly asked about it in this interview. Essentially they're real dudes, not shiny hollywood pretties https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgTh422WDEk @ 7:15. The whole video is pro-click though.
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Jan 2, 2016 12:55
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"Every character in that movie's got to suggest at least four other movies that they lived through" is such a great philosophy of character design
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Jan 2, 2016 13:08
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Was it just me, or did the generals son look a bit like Jerimiah Johnson? Which would be cool of you consider that movies time and setting.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:51
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axleblaze posted:I feel some of the criticisms of laughter are a little harsh. This movie does treat many horrible things in a comical way. I mean, they are supposed to be horrible and not laughed at but they are often set up like jokes where the punchline is extreme discomfort. The constant beating on Daisy and her increasingly wrecked face is constantly filmed like a punchline and setup like a running joke but it's just horrific in the end and is not helped by the fact we never actually know what she's actually done. I feel it's okay to laugh because that's a normal reaction to discomfort and the movie seems to revel in that. yeah if people are wondering why people laugh at the violence and racism in this movie, it's because Tarantino plays those things for laughs, and pretty much always has. Hateful Eight is a pitch black comedy. I liked the pacing of the whole thing. I'd probably rank it above Django but below Basterds in terms of his post-90s output. outstanding ensemble cast, everyone got their moment to shine. Jackson was the most fleshed-out, complex performance, Goggins was the most lively, Leigh was the most magnetic, Dern was the most authoritative, Kurt Russell was the most Kurt Russell. Beautiful movie as well, Richardson's a shoo-in for a Best Cinematography nomination. That opening slow zoom out on the cross is one of my favorite shots in a Tarantino movie. edit: re: 70mm I saw the movie at the Somerville Theatre in Somerville, Massachusetts. If you live in Mass, go there to see 70mm movies. They screen them there on the regular (saw 2001 there earlier this year) so they really have it down to a science. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 16:52
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I was absolutely amazed Madsen didn't stink up the joint, but I shouldn't be surprised he gives Tarantino his best.
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Jan 2, 2016 18:26
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If Minnie didn't allow dogs or Mesicans then why didn't she so much as give Bob a dirty look when they arrived?
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Jan 2, 2016 20:40
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gohmak posted:If Minnie didn't allow Mesicans then why didn't she so much as give Bob a dirty look when they arrived? Warren was most likely calling Bob's bluff with the sign.
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Jan 2, 2016 20:41
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I was absolutely amazed Madsen didn't stink up the joint, but I shouldn't be surprised he gives Tarantino his best. Face it, ya gotta bum tickerrr e: for real though pretty much the coolest things he does in the movie are switch out his neckerchief and suck on a peppermint stick but when you cast him in the right role Madsen is always the king of cool somehow. I like how he just can't be assed to put his hands on the wall and turn around properly even with an angry hillbilly rearing to shoot him. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 21:01
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gohmak posted:If Minnie didn't allow dogs or Mesicans then why didn't she so much as give Bob a dirty look when they arrived? Because Warren was lying.
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Jan 3, 2016 03:58
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Wait a second, were there any bare feet in this movie?
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Jan 3, 2016 04:46
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Krispy Kareem posted:Wait a second, were there any bare feet in this movie? And people say Tarantino has no discipline.
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Jan 3, 2016 05:08
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Krispy Kareem posted:Wait a second, were there any bare feet in this movie? In the Major's story sequence, I guess.
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Jan 3, 2016 06:34
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Chantilly Say posted:In the Major's story sequence, I guess. Nope. he was wearing boots.
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Jan 3, 2016 07:15
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What did you guys make of the long shot of the Jesus statue in the beginning? Personally, I've got two interpretations that may or may not overlap: Jesus as a scapegoat and a justification for cruelty. Throughout the film, there's this idea of justified cruelty: The Hangman wants to see his bounties die slow for the law, Warren justifies burning the prison camp and raping the general's son as this sort of karmic justice against the Confederates, Mannix and the General killed for the cause, and Jody's gang kills out of pure pragmatism. And at the end, they hang Daisy, specifically prolonging her suffering, out of this sense of justice. But at the same time there's this idea of false redemption with Mannix becoming the only semblance of an authority figure even though he's the same old racist prick. As well, there's that "OH, SO NOW YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS!" line that makes me think there's something there.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:45
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In the theatre I thought that the way that the snow landed on Jesus's head looked like Jesus was wearing a klan robe because it was pointy and white.
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Jan 3, 2016 20:50
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God drat, this was the first thing Michael Madsen was good in since Kill Bill. Not a coincidence, I'm guessing.
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Jan 3, 2016 21:13
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I don't like the idea of an image in a movie representing things the way they do in a political cartoon or a bible parable. That said the major thematic idea that seems to run through the movie to me is the idea of civilization and its attendant ethics juxtaposed to savagery---the "White Hell" the film takes place in, which surrounds and half-buries the cross in the opening shot. The road marker is a lonely outpost of civilization hewn out of an utterly hostile environment just like Minnie's Haberdashery, both a solitary-looking dark spot against the whited-out void of Wyoming. The film's action takes place within this tiny, carved-out "civilized" space wherein we see the characters in turn commit or give in to savagery. There's a deliberate contrast between the characters who appear most civilized---particularly the suave, well-groomed Jody who speaks three languages being no doubt the most ruthless and frightening killer of the bunch or General Sandy, a man who has no qualms or regrets massacring far more people than Marquis Warren killed in his prison break. Contrast to the extremely uncivilized John Ruth, basically the only character to demonstrate a consistent set of ethics in the movie, the only one who believes in justice as an impartial force, who tends to take people at their word. The film is basically asking who, if anyone, in the microcosm of the cabin, really possesses the aspirations emblematic of that cross. I mean, someone had to carve that huge road marker and set it up by the road so just ask why they chose the image to be Christ on the cross and what the (in-universe) maker of that cross intended setting it up against a nearly uninhabitable wilderness intended it to mean (or I guess the image of the suffering could be kind of an ironic joke for whoever was unlucky enough to be going down that road).
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Jan 3, 2016 22:31
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Harime Nui posted:I don't like the idea of an image in a movie representing things the way they do in a political cartoon or a bible parable. That said the major thematic idea that seems to run through the movie to me is the idea of civilization and its attendant ethics juxtaposed to savagery---the "White Hell" the film takes place in, which surrounds and half-buries the cross in the opening shot. The road marker is a lonely outpost of civilization hewn out of an utterly hostile environment just like Minnie's Haberdashery, both a solitary-looking dark spot against the whited-out void of Wyoming. The film's action takes place within this tiny, carved-out "civilized" space wherein we see the characters in turn commit or give in to savagery. There's a deliberate contrast between the characters who appear most civilized---particularly the suave, well-groomed Jody who speaks three languages being no doubt the most ruthless and frightening killer of the bunch or General Sandy, a man who has no qualms or regrets massacring far more people than Marquis Warren killed in his prison break. Contrast to the extremely uncivilized John Ruth, basically the only character to demonstrate a consistent set of ethics in the movie, the only one who believes in justice as an impartial force, who tends to take people at their word. The film is basically asking who, if anyone, in the microcosm of the cabin, really possesses the aspirations emblematic of that cross. I mean, someone had to carve that huge road marker and set it up by the road so just ask why they chose the image to be Christ on the cross and what the (in-universe) maker of that cross intended setting it up against a nearly uninhabitable wilderness intended it to mean (or I guess the image of the suffering could be kind of an ironic joke for whoever was unlucky enough to be going down that road). I wouldn't say Ruth is quite so pure as you make him out to be, just that he externalizes his cruelty better. He sets up this image of being a pure, just servant of the court so he can indulge in these cruelties, using the pretext of taking the hard road of justice so he can watch people hang. Also now that I think about it, he,along with O. B., fills the role of martyr for Mannix and Warren, with his death justifying not just their hanging of Daisy but their killing just about everyone else in the cabin, his blood purifying their actions. And I certainly agree that it's not necessarily a direct, concrete symbol but that long, meditative shot does invite rumination on just what Jesus means to us and the characters.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:05
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I had no idea there was going to be an Intermission when I saw the 70mm version yesterday. That was an awesome surprise. Overall I enjoyed the film but I can't raise any enthusiasm for it. If I were to rank all eight QT films this would be in last place, but even last place QT is really good.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:29
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After watching it a second time it's solid middle of the pack QT for me. I really like how paired down and simple it is, relying purely on the actors to basically carry it. In some ways, I like it more than Django and Inglorious Basterds because it feels more like QT, whereas both of those (which I also really like) feel more like QT does a more normal style film.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:48
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I Before E posted:I wouldn't say Ruth is quite so pure as you make him out to be, just that he externalizes his cruelty better. He sets up this image of being a pure, just servant of the court so he can indulge in these cruelties, using the pretext of taking the hard road of justice so he can watch people hang. Also now that I think about it, he,along with O. B., fills the role of martyr for Mannix and Warren, with his death justifying not just their hanging of Daisy but their killing just about everyone else in the cabin, his blood purifying their actions. Jesus is all about love and compassion, traits absent in the cabin by the lawkeepers, yet strictly adhered to by the bandits. The love of the brother towards his sister is the inciting incident, and it's that love that keeps the other gang members from straight up murdering Ruth's party as soon as they walk through the door. They're all there for the brother's unwavering love for his sister, but the brother's also the coldest character because he lets that love vindicate his murderous actions, just like the lawmakers vindicate their murderous actions with their sense of justice. While the cross and the idea of Christianity isn't the forefront theme of the movie, it definitely exists as a juxtaposition to the actions of those in the cabin.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:56
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ruddiger posted:Jesus is all about love and compassion, traits absent in the cabin by the lawkeepers, yet strictly adhered to by the bandits. The love of the brother towards his sister is the inciting incident, and it's that love that keeps the other gang members from straight up murdering Ruth's party as soon as they walk through the door. They're all there for the brother's unwavering love for his sister, but the brother's also the coldest character because he lets that love vindicate his murderous actions, just like the lawmakers vindicate their murderous actions with their sense of justice. While the cross and the idea of Christianity isn't the forefront theme of the movie, it definitely exists as a juxtaposition to the actions of those in the cabin. Jesus wasn't about love and compassion for certain people. In fact he specifically says in Matthew 5:43 that loving those who already love you counts for nothing. Loving one's enemies is what Jesus called for, and no one in this film even comes close. 
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Jan 4, 2016 00:07
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I Before E posted:I wouldn't say Ruth is quite so pure as you make him out to be, just that he externalizes his cruelty better. He sets up this image of being a pure, just servant of the court so he can indulge in these cruelties, using the pretext of taking the hard road of justice so he can watch people hang. Also now that I think about it, he,along with O. B., fills the role of martyr for Mannix and Warren, with his death justifying not just their hanging of Daisy but their killing just about everyone else in the cabin, his blood purifying their actions. I think less than a question about right and wrong (all the characters, I think, have a mix of good and bad reasons for their actions) it's more a question of what we might call ethics or principled reasoning which I think it's fair to say is synonymous with civilization versus purely self-interest, or in the case of the Domergue gang, pack-interest (notice the entire gang demonstrates a great deal of loyalty to one another). Notice that Mannix's decision to execute the Domergue gang solidifies when Daisy makes the fatal mistake of comparing his father to her brother---Mannix's response is something like "my daddy fought for something, he wasn't no robber." It's the complete absence of principles that distinguishes Warren: the first thing we learn about him is that he sacrificed at least 35 fellow POWs to affect his own escape, contrast to Ruth who doesn't go through a great deal of unnecessary trouble and danger to bring his quarry in alive because he's a sadist, or because he's a great humanitarian, but because he believes in impartial justice. In a weird way Warren comes to believe Ruth was worth honoring and (this is the movie's black-as-hell punchline) honors his principles through a cruel display of just what Oswaldo called "frontier justice." Essentially the movie implicitly asks if the characters who act on behalf of justice/honor/civilization are any better than the gang members who massacre innocents but show a great deal of loyalty to one another. It's that same impulse to honor kin, btw, that prompts Smithers to get himself killed ("the worst mistake your boy ever made was telling me he was your son." Nice Trump-style sentence manipulation by Warren there). I don't think the movie suggests an answer, either.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:17
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Loved the film. Spent a good long while wondering if it could or should have been a sparser play / 'premier tv event' alongside something like SLJ's The Sunset Limited. But then all I could think of was Jerry and Elaine shouting at Kramer to bang another nail in the drat door and concluded it was filmed exactly how it should have been.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:27
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Harime Nui posted:It's the complete absence of principles that distinguishes Warren: the first thing we learn about him is that he sacrificed at least 35 fellow POWs to affect his own escape, contrast to Ruth who doesn't go through a great deal of unnecessary trouble and danger to bring his quarry in alive because he's a sadist, or because he's a great humanitarian, but because he believes in impartial justice. But Ruth is transparently sadistic, just look at the glee with which he abuses Daisy, going out of his way to smash the guitar after her song, perhaps the only moment of genuine peace she has until his death.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:30
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I read that as Ruth is troubled and upset at seeing a sign of real humanity in his prisoner and smashes the guitar because that's how he acts when he's upset. I think he believes in dispassionate justice he's just kinda not good at it.
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Jan 4, 2016 00:32
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He's also just mad that the lyric she just sang was "while you die behind me John" 
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Jan 4, 2016 00:54
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Saw it last week and plan to see it again before the roadshow is done so that I can focus more on the awesome cinematography. I thought the part where Warren hands Ruth the Lincoln letter in the carriage and the light catches it, making it glow was a nice touch, considering how Warren and Ruth were treating it. It took me a while to realize the exchange between Mannix and Tim Roth's character about coming to town for the hanging of some criminal they named was complete bullshit, and whoever started that line of conversation was banking on the other person being full of poo poo, as well. Bottom Liner posted:He's also just mad that the lyric she just sang was "while you die behind me John" That's exactly how I took it.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:04
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I keep wondering if the 15 men who will destroy Red Rock were a bluff or not. If not, then Mannix is a pretty crappy sheriff, letting his town get razed like that.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:26
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Hijinks Ensue posted:I keep wondering if the 15 men who will destroy Red Rock were a bluff or not. If not, then Mannix is a pretty crappy sheriff, letting his town get razed like that. We don't even know if Mannix was bluffing about being the sheriff. Either way, he's too dead to be held accountable.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:57
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Unzip and Attack posted:Jesus wasn't about love and compassion for certain people. In fact he specifically says in Matthew 5:43 that loving those who already love you counts for nothing. Loving one's enemies is what Jesus called for, and no one in this film even comes close. Well, I mean you could make an argument about the ending. Still hate each other in a lot of ways, but they've managed to find common ground with each other. I mean that really is a good line. Perhaps not exactly what Jesus was going for on that one but hey....as the good Lord said, win is a win.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:17
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AppleCider posted:It took me a while to realize the exchange between Mannix and Tim Roth's character about coming to town for the hanging of some criminal they named was complete bullshit, and whoever started that line of conversation was banking on the other person being full of poo poo, as well. We don't know enough to firmly say that it's a bullshit story. Either that's the case and Mannix isn't really the sheriff, or there was information on the real Oswaldo Mobray that allowed him to avoid getting caught in a lie.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:19
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Considering English Pete Hickox had business cards that presumably read 'Oswaldo Mobray, hangman,' there was probably a real Oswaldo Mobray who's identity he was assuming.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:28
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Blast Fantasto posted:We don't know enough to firmly say that it's a bullshit story. Either that's the case and Mannix isn't really the sheriff, or there was information on the real Oswaldo Mobray that allowed him to avoid getting caught in a lie. Harime Nui posted:Considering English Pete Hickox had business cards that presumably read 'Oswaldo Mobray, hangman,' there was probably a real Oswaldo Mobray who's identity he was assuming. Good point. I forgot about the cards.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:35
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I Before E posted:What did you guys make of the long shot of the Jesus statue in the beginning? Personally, I've got two interpretations that may or may not overlap: Jesus as a scapegoat and a justification for cruelty. Throughout the film, there's this idea of justified cruelty: The Hangman wants to see his bounties die slow for the law, Warren justifies burning the prison camp and raping the general's son as this sort of karmic justice against the Confederates, Mannix and the General killed for the cause, and Jody's gang kills out of pure pragmatism. And at the end, they hang Daisy, specifically prolonging her suffering, out of this sense of justice. But at the same time there's this idea of false redemption with Mannix becoming the only semblance of an authority figure even though he's the same old racist prick. As well, there's that "OH, SO NOW YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS!" line that makes me think there's something there. I think it's much simpler than that: Jesus doesn't matter when he's buried under snow. The imagery of the Jesus statue in the beginning is of a mound of snow covering his head, or burying his sacrifice. At the end of Hateful Eight, Mannix and Warren have dispensed justice, but so what? They're going to die slowly while buried in snow. No one will find them for a while, and no one will know what happened, or about their sacrifice. Hijinks Ensue posted:I keep wondering if the 15 men who will destroy Red Rock were a bluff or not. If not, then Mannix is a pretty crappy sheriff, letting his town get razed like that. I think Warren and Mannix defeating Domergue in the end by hanging her was secondary to her bluff failing. Whereas Warren's deceit worked to get on the stagecoach, and goaded the general into a shootout, Domergue couldn't talk her way out of justice. Think about it: If the bad guys realized having the general alive to have more 'guests' at the Habadashery was important, why not just bring along another guy or two to fill out the room? Simple: There were no 'other guys'. Edit: Re: Whether Mannix is really sheriff: If he wasn't, I think Warren would have likely figured it out, and called him on it. Plus, it's not too far-fetched to think that there were enough sympathizers in town to vote in Mannix for his family ties. Remember that he wasn't really a bad person - just a racist who thought he fought for the freedom and ideals of the south, even if misguided. He did respect and look up to the general - a man of some importance, to him, at least. But, to be fair, whether or not he's sheriff isn't super important to his character arc. Red fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:16
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AppleCider posted:It took me a while to realize the exchange between Mannix and Tim Roth's character about coming to town for the hanging of some criminal they named was complete bullshit, and whoever started that line of conversation was banking on the other person being full of poo poo, as well.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:13
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effectual posted:Just got out of the roadshow in Sacramento, hot drat was that an intense, fun experience. If you like Reservoir Dogs you'll like this. Did you get a program? I just saw it at the Tower today and I didn't get one. Was that limited to the first week? I enjoyed this a lot. It's not Tarantino's strongest film, but it's a fun few hours. The cinematography was great. I'm not sure I'm convinced on 70mm being superior to 4k digital projection, though. It seemed a little darker and a little yellower than digital, but then again, videos of it I'm seeing online seem kind of the same way, so I'm not sure how much of it was the projection and how much of it was the recording. I wasn't sure if it was sharper than 4k projection, either. I'd really to see a comparison of the two. If nothing else though, I think it helped make the movie look more like an older movie. Definitely the way to see it.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:52
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AppleCider posted:I thought the part where Warren hands Ruth the Lincoln letter in the carriage and the light catches it, making it glow was a nice touch, considering how Warren and Ruth were treating it. I thought that was cool, and almost definitely a Pulp Fiction callback. And "Say adios to your huevos" is totally a callback to the line in Inglourious Basterds "Say auf wedersehen to your Nazi balls."
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Jan 4, 2016 06:24
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Blast Fantasto posted:God drat, this was the first thing Michael Madsen was good in
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Jan 4, 2016 07:05
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I Before E posted:What did you guys make of the long shot of the Jesus statue in the beginning? I understand that you're looking for a "reading" but the Ockham's Razor explanation was that it was a bookmark for the audience to the start of the story, so when the story flashes back you go back to the statue. Visual cues are the language of cinema after all(*). (*) and then where this gets interesting is that Tarantino fully understands and practices this but chose to make the turning point of The Hateful Eight (the poisoning of the coffee) occur through omniscient narration instead of visually.
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Jan 4, 2016 15:40
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