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Filthy Casual posted:She's currently weaning herself off the Minute Maid OJ. She had to drink several gallons before her scenes to get the skin tone just yellow enough, so people can brand her as a racist caricature. To avoid the crashing withdrawal symptoms of going cold turkey, she's working herself down to a juice box every couple of hours. I mean to be clear here, you're arguing that authorial intent dismisses any racist caricatures. George Lucas said Jar Jar isn't a racist caricature, I guess he's not!
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Jan 4, 2016 02:41
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computer parts posted:I'm pretty sure "Magical Maz Kanata is voiced beautifully by Lupita Nyong'o, has some basic spacified culture dress (her glasses/hat combination that looks like a rasta hat, clothing style, the necklace), and looks like a 1000 year old space grandma. She owns. If you can't have a 1000 year old wizened looking old lady in a film because it conjures up comparisons to actual racist caricatures then you basically agree that no character can be portrayed on screen ever. Her bar is closer to Caribbean themed than chinese, but because its not full of racist rear end Toydarians and Neymoidians it manages to just be a cool space culture thing.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:43
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Jerkface posted:Maz Kanata is voiced beautifully by Lupita Nyong'o, has some basic spacified culture dress (her glasses/hat combination that looks like a rasta hat, clothing style, the necklace), and looks like a 1000 year old space grandma. She owns. If you can't have a 1000 year old wizened looking old lady in a film because it conjures up comparisons to actual racist caricatures then you basically agree that no character can be portrayed on screen ever. Her bar is closer to Caribbean themed than chinese, but because its not full of racist rear end Toydarians and Neymoidians it manages to just be a cool space culture thing. Oh my apologies then, I guess she is just a Magical Negro in the first place.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:46
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computer parts posted:Oh my apologies then, I guess she is just a Magical Negro in the first place. Take it easy, man.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:48
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computer parts posted:Oh my apologies then, I guess she is just a Magical Negro in the first place. Which is the case for lots of folks here, I suppose.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:01
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computer parts posted:I mean to be clear here, you're arguing that authorial intent dismisses any racist caricatures. Yup, that's exactly the message you should take from my post.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:01
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Filthy Casual posted:Yup, that's exactly the message you should take from my post. Oh good, glad I got it correctly.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:02
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Maz and Hux are, for my money, the worst characters in all Star Wars.Mechafunkzilla posted:One of the more bizarre things about Finn's characterization is that, despite his supposed background as a brainwashed-from-childhood nameless soldier, he emerges from the First Order as a fairly well-adjusted, self-aware, quip-spouting adult who likes to say "woo" while shooting TIE fighters and have a good time. Sure, he struggles a bit with being courageous, but there is never any question as to his ability to tell right from wrong. His past is never engaged with other than him being a source of plot-convenient intelligence and when he gets his schoolyard revenge on Phasma for being a big mean bully. I don't believe it's a plot hole. It means simply that everything we are seeing is heavily distorted. This is a fairy tale - but without the verisimilitude. These aren't effective metaphors, so it's impossible to think about the narrative and still suspend your disbelief. The basic metaphor with Finn is "we are all Stormtroopers": Finn is a good American kid who one day wakes up and says "hold on dude. What if we're all like, drones. We're all just trapped in these costumes by The Man." So, when he takes off his costume, it's that classic 'unplugging from the Matrix' imagery. This is why he can be a dorky American kid who likes Star Wars while, simultaneously, living as a fully brainwashed supersoldier in a metal hell world. But what this means is that the entire New Order is a paranoid fantasy that doesn't make sense in literal terms. Finn is not worried about the genocide weapon because there is no genocide weapon. We can see the beam from the other side of the galaxy because there is no genocide weapon. The 'eating the sun for power' thing makes no sense because there is no genocide weapon. The propaganda-image of the space-Nazis devouring the sun is a pretense for the a Resistance to attack their true enemy: the Republic. That's why no one can agree whether the New Order are nazis or commies or muslims: they are all of the above - just like Barack Obama, amiright?? Effectively, the entire Resistance comes to the same 'realization' as Finn. They are both marked by that bloody, red hand and 'wake up'. Now both turn against their old friends. I actually did pay attention to Hux. His entire goal is to destroy Leia's friends, and then he does. Nobody cares about the ostensible loss of life, but Leia is upset that her friends aren't there to help her out. The message is simple: the Republic aren't our friends anymore. They're dead to us.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:06
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Serious question; is it just impossible for a film to have an aged wise character now? People are seriously debating if Maz is a magical negro, chinawoman, or indian shaman
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Jan 4, 2016 03:12
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The race thing is a distraction. The real problem with the character is that she talks like a bad fortune cookie and runs a temple to herself.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:17
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jivjov posted:Serious question; is it just impossible for a film to have an aged wise character now? People are seriously debating if Maz is a magical negro, chinawoman, or indian shaman As long as you just make every character explicitly white then it's not often offensive, as long as they don't come off as Jewish.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:17
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jivjov posted:Serious question; is it just impossible for a film to have an aged wise character now? People are seriously debating if Maz is a magical negro, chinawoman, or indian shaman I mean it's as impossible as it's impossible to have a character that's a Fool (the archetype). To be explicit: Maz is as much of a racial stereotype as Jar Jar is. computer parts fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 03:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Maz and Hux are, for my money, the worst characters in all Star Wars. It is true that destroying a planet we've never seen before...full of people we've never seen before...representing a political order with no presence in the film...with a weapon we've never seen before...may as well never have happened. It certainly isn't a question which act is presented as a greater atrocity when you compare it to Han's death.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:27
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Yaws posted:I love this. Maz doesn't offend anyone with outdated racial stereotypes (ala Jar Jar) so shes a lame and uninspired. Uh, no. quote:You're white aren't you? As the driven snow.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:33
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Like all the aliens in Star Wars, Maz is both 'of a race' and 'raceless'. Put simply, the character embodies the abstract concept of race, divorced from any specific real-world example If Maz were black, they would not have bothered with all the CGI mocap stuff. Maz is orange - which is like black, but not. (Orange Is The New Black joke here.) This is all secondary to Maz's characterization as a 'cool ethnic grandma' who runs her church as a lame hippie art commune.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:39
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Cnut the Great posted:Uh, no. I'm Filipino and I think Maz owns.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:46
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What racist caricature would Yoda be accused of being if ESB were released today, I wonder? loving stupid, our culture of perpetual insult is.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:11
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jivjov posted:Serious question; is it just impossible for a film to have an aged wise character now? People are seriously debating if Maz is a magical negro, chinawoman, or indian shaman I spotted this on Facebook  I guess people see what they want to see in the character, and some people want to see a racial stereotype for some reason?
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Jan 4, 2016 04:16
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Ok enough of this argument, it's running dry. Talk about something else cool in the Star War.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:16
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Black with white panels is a much better color for TIEs than the Empire's (blue-)grey with black panels.  
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Jan 4, 2016 04:18
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It is true that destroying a planet we've never seen before...full of people we've never seen before...representing a political order with no presence in the film...with a weapon we've never seen before...may as well never have happened. Here's a quick example of verisimilitude: At the start of A New Hope, Luke has spent all his life dreaming of the old republic. He wants to venture out and see this lush green kingdom of princesses and knights. When he finally flies up into space, however, he finds nothing there. There is only this Death Star. This works equally well on multiple levels. On the one hand, Alderaan doesn't really exist, because it's Luke's childhood fantasy. But, at the same time, we have a good explanation for why Alderaan doesn't exist: these Republic types are a bunch of elites with gold-plated butlers, living large off the universe while claiming the moral high ground. Of course people turned against them. And this is all illustrated with the powerful image of the innocent/impotent kingdom being replaced with a dark world. It's all this stuff works in tandem to give the ridiculous laser-moon stuff verisimilitude. Verisimilitude means that, even though the plot is patently unrealistic, it makes sense. You will believe a man can fly. Force Awakens is missing this, which is why the whole 'destruction of the Republic' sequence doesn't work. It suggests an ulterior motive, like 300 does.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:27
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I was kind of surprised that Poe said the TIE-fighters have greater acceleration than X-wings. Usually in these kinds of stories the ultra-patriotic soldiers are constantly belittling their enemies' methods and equipment. Is the Resistance really so mechanically inferior that even their best pilots acknowledge the superiority of enemy assets? Maybe the F.O. is just that much more driven to push the limits of technology.
BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 04:30
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 Terrifying tiny death star, soulless, with jet black wings, wants to kill you. Where's my flyswatter?
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Jan 4, 2016 04:32
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BrianWilly posted:I was kind of surprised that Poe said the TIE-fighters have greater acceleration than X-wings. Usually in these kinds of stories the ultra-patriotic soldiers are constantly belittling their enemies' methods and equipment. Is the Resistance really so mechanically inferior that even their best pilots acknowledge the superiority of enemy assets? Maybe the F.O. is just that much more driven to push the limits of technology. Is Poe a patriot? What is nation or ideology is he devoted to?
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Jan 4, 2016 04:34
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BrianWilly posted:I was kind of surprised that Poe said the TIE-fighters have greater acceleration than X-wings. Usually in these kinds of stories the ultra-patriotic soldiers are constantly belittling their enemies' methods and equipment. Is the Resistance really so mechanically inferior that even their best pilots acknowledge the superiority of enemy assets? Maybe the F.O. is just that much more driven to push the limits of technology. TIEs have always been faster than X-Wings and Y-Wings. Vader and his wingmen had no trouble catching up during the trench run at Yavin.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:34
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edit: Nevermind, I guess.
Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 04:35
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BrianWilly posted:I was kind of surprised that Poe said the TIE-fighters have greater acceleration than X-wings. Usually in these kinds of stories the ultra-patriotic soldiers are constantly belittling their enemies' methods and equipment. Is the Resistance really so mechanically inferior that even their best pilots acknowledge the superiority of enemy assets? Maybe the F.O. is just that much more driven to push the limits of technology. Someone didn't play Rogue Squadron.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:35
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Regular TIE Fighters are supposed to be the same speed as X-Wings, I figure that the speed boost that Poe was talking about is on account of him flying a Special Forces TIE Fighter instead of a regular TIE Fighter. Or maybe First Order TIE Fighters have gotten faster while X-Wings have gotten more durable with no speed boost? Who knows, oh well.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:36
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Powered Descent posted:TIEs have always been faster than X-Wings and Y-Wings. Vader and his wingmen had no trouble catching up during the trench run at Yavin. I'm not an EU follower at all but one of the things I remember from my more die hard friends back in grade school was that the TIEs were super fast in the short range but didn't have the fuel capacity to go on long journeys (also didn't have hyperdrive like the X-Wings). The space battles always interested me so it's one bit of trivia I remembered.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:39
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It seems reasonable that the First Order could have been actively developing stuff for their future war plans, whereas the Resistance would be scraping by just keeping the small fleet they have in the air. e: Or the special forces thing
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Jan 4, 2016 04:41
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Is Poe a patriot? What is nation or ideology is he devoted to? The Republic of Space Goodguys
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Jan 4, 2016 04:44
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Guy A. Person posted:I'm not an EU follower at all but one of the things I remember from my more die hard friends back in grade school was that the TIEs were super fast in the short range but didn't have the fuel capacity to go on long journeys (also didn't have hyperdrive like the X-Wings). The space battles always interested me so it's one bit of trivia I remembered. I think its based on comments about how the ones in a New Hope are called out as being close range fighters and how there needs to be a base nearby. Somehow this applies to all tie-fighters.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:50
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Barudak posted:I think its based on comments about how the ones in a New Hope are called out as being close range fighters and how there needs to be a base nearby. Somehow this applies to all tie-fighters. True it might have gotten wookipedia'd into a more robust version of that offhand comment.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Force Awakens is missing this, which is why the whole 'destruction of the Republic' sequence doesn't work. It suggests an ulterior motive, like 300 does. Those goddamn bugs whacked us, Johnny! They whacked us!
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Jan 4, 2016 04:55
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Guy A. Person posted:True it might have gotten wookipedia'd into a more robust version of that offhand comment. 
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Jan 4, 2016 05:00
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I know it's novelization and whatnot but, yeah, Poe was a dedicated New Republic pilot before joining the Resistance because the Republic wasn't doing enough against the First Order. We...could make the case that he grew disillusioned with the Republic and no longer considers himself a part of that system, or perhaps he's one of those Captain America types who's beholden to the ideals of the state and not the reality of the state. Sadly, there's really not enough of him in the movie to say one way or another.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:04
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Guy A. Person posted:I'm not an EU follower at all but one of the things I remember from my more die hard friends back in grade school was that the TIEs were super fast in the short range but didn't have the fuel capacity to go on long journeys (also didn't have hyperdrive like the X-Wings). The space battles always interested me so it's one bit of trivia I remembered. Yeah, this is the CineD thread so I kept it to what's in the movies. But in the old EU, TIEs had amazing performance in the hands of a skilled pilot, but were basically made of tinfoil and would explode if you looked at them funny. The Rebel fighters had shields, missile launchers, hyperdrives, astromech droid co-pilots (sometimes), life-support systems (so you didn't need the sinister-looking spacesuit), and even a frame robust enough to take a few hits without dying. The Rebel ships were also nearly always outnumbered by at least three to one.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:04
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Ah so it's that thing where their tools reflect their ideology.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:05
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ruddiger posted:Those goddamn bugs whacked us, Johnny! They whacked us! turtlecrunch posted:
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Jan 4, 2016 05:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like all the aliens in Star Wars, Maz is both 'of a race' and 'raceless'. Likewise, to the live "alien music performances" in all star war films. Inevitably funky jazz fusions (bar scenes from OT), "world" music (Gungun celebration) and now reggae vibes (Maz's bar). It would be strange to see aliens play a sci-fi version of pop-punk, folk ballads, Western swing or heavy metal in a SW film, but I could imagine seeing loose pastiche's of afro-jazz, Socca, and Siberian throat singing all being ascribed to future SW aliens. That being said the live song in Maz's bar stayed with me long after I forgot the score. I liked it, but also felt the whole scene was derivative, especially since it was around the time when the deathstar 2.0 was also doing some very ANH things.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:18
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