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How soon we forget Jedi Rocks and the other kinds of music Jabba likes.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:35
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BrianWilly posted:Ah so it's that thing where their tools reflect their ideology. I always thought of it as a WW2 type thing in that Tie Fighters were unarmored, but incredibly agile Zeroes, and X-wings were...I don't know, Thunderbolts or Corsairs. Some American fighter, basically, that wasn't nearly as agile, but was heavily armored and more lethal than anything in the sky when fighting as a unit, rather than individuals. Darth Vader walking around with a samurai helmet may have colored my perception of that, though.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:36
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BrianWilly posted:I was kind of surprised that Poe said the TIE-fighters have greater acceleration than X-wings. Usually in these kinds of stories the ultra-patriotic soldiers are constantly belittling their enemies' methods and equipment. Is the Resistance really so mechanically inferior that even their best pilots acknowledge the superiority of enemy assets? Maybe the F.O. is just that much more driven to push the limits of technology. He says "Always wanted to fly one of these things" and "Man this thing can move!" He didn't really say it's superior in any way. Though it's generally accepted ties are really fast but have worse weapons, and far worse shields and durability.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:56
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crowoutofcontext posted:Likewise, to the live "alien music performances" in all star war films. Inevitably funky jazz fusions (bar scenes from OT), "world" music (Gungun celebration) and now reggae vibes (Maz's bar). Well that song was made by Lin Manuel Miranda who has had an extremely breakout year with Hamilton and winning a Macarthur genius grant.
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Jan 4, 2016 13:00
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In the new EU books, it's noted that TIE fighters were outfitted with better cannons and other tech to make them better following the Empire's defeat and subsequent retreat after the battle of Jakku. They're probably not superior to X-Wings, and Poe never says anything that would prove or disprove that, but they're definitely more potent than anything in the OT.
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Jan 4, 2016 13:31
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Hahahahaha Powered Descent posted:Yeah, this is the CineD thread so I kept it to what's in the movies. But in the old EU, TIEs had amazing performance in the hands of a skilled pilot, but were basically made of tinfoil and would explode if you looked at them funny. The Rebel fighters had shields, missile launchers, hyperdrives, astromech droid co-pilots (sometimes), life-support systems (so you didn't need the sinister-looking spacesuit), and even a frame robust enough to take a few hits without dying. Ok yeah! That all rings a bell. This is bringing back memories of sixth grade recess discussions about this stuff (plus the dude was way into Boba Fett so I knew all the theories of him escaping the Sarlacc pit because of his special armor, etc).
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Jan 4, 2016 15:10
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This is canon.
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Jan 4, 2016 15:22
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Corek posted:This is canon. Canon aka "the dumbest thing I ever heard"
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Jan 4, 2016 15:34
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hiddenriverninja posted:Canon aka "the dumbest thing I ever heard" It's a joke website 
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Jan 4, 2016 15:46
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The grey phantom Smoke, the shimmering and shallow Phantasm, and the blustering and maneuvering Huckster seem about as coincidentally-named as the selfish loner named Solo traveling with his space dog, as was already pointed out. The Republic is gone and the powers driving the First Order implicitly lack substance, except for Kylo Ren. The political side of things has even less substance than A New Hope did and -- I realize this was clear to a lot of you before -- it looks as though they decided what people understood most from the original six movies was Darth Vader is conflicted and hunts the roster of stereotyped "good" guys, so they quickly wrapped up every other theme in this first new movie. Superweapon? Gone. Political differences? Gone -- we don't even know what kind of government the First Order is. Wondering what the Force is, and learning to use it? Rey already's using it pretty well.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:00
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Bongo Bill posted:How soon we forget Jedi Rocks and the other kinds of music Jabba likes. I'd say "Jedi Rocks"can still be considered racialized. But a little less exotic than the other examples to an American audience. But forgot about the Baroque music? I think both these songs were added to the re-tweaked. OT... Do we see 17th century aliens in powdered wigs playing that stuff? homullus posted:we don't even know what kind of government the First Order is. Both the blatant nazi imagery from the speech and Finn's back story tell us enough about the First Order IMO. Though we know next to nothing about the new Republic.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:47
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Small Han theory.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:26
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Han So Low.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:39
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Ferrinus posted:Small Han theory. Check the Han(s).
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Jan 4, 2016 18:47
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The black and white imagery of the First Order casts them as moral absolutists. They live in a black and white world. They despise weakness- an imperfect Republic, an aging and flawed hero, a Jedi who disappeared. They destroy imperfection with a purifying flame. Rey and Finn both come, then, from absolutist worlds. One the First Order (and note the philosophical reductionism of the title, reducing things to stark simplicity and control) and the other Jakku, where what you're worth is how much scrap you can bring in and those without anything must drink from pig troughs. They escape in the ship of an iconically shady character, the ship itself both a malfunctioning piece of junk and the fastest cruiser in the galaxy. They head to Space Casablanca headed by a character who has great wisdom but is not yet committed to fighting for anything. They come to a world of complicated relationships, unthinkable atrocities visible in the sky, and murky visions. The larger world they escape to is the journey from childhood certainty to adult ambiguity- nothing's right or certain anymore. Rey is stripped of the illusion that whoever left her is just going to come back, Finn discards the illusion that he's a big shot hero and accepts he's not there yet. But they're still young and, having gained the wisdom that nothing is simple, are still able to find direction. They still have the clarity to do something about at least one horrible thing in the galaxy. They can end the Starkiller. That's something. Kylo Ren meanwhile cannot accept the ambiguity of maturity. He cannot accept the presence in him of both dark and light, and he cannot accept that his father was bad at being a father but maybe not a bad guy overall. His father has to be eliminated. Anything which makes him uncertain must be eliminated. Gotta go to work but this is what I have so far. Work in progress.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:57
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Again, I find it consistently amazing that more people aren't paying attention to the Nazi/Resistance/Allies parallels in the film. They're present for a reason, and add context to the conflict. I don't know how much more unsubtle it could have been. Trying to ignore those things, either out of ignorance or for some reason on purpose, is going to lead to a very bizarre reading of the film. One could argue that perhaps a film should be able to stand completely on its own, but as far as references go, I think it's pretty loving safe to assume that everyone has some idea about one of the largest conflicts (if not the largest conflict) in the history of mankind.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:15
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crowoutofcontext posted:I'd say "Jedi Rocks"can still be considered racialized. But a little less exotic than the other examples to an American audience. We know they're bad. We just don't know what they are. In ANH, we knew there was an emperor and a senate. My takeaway is that Disney decided that Star Wars fans care only about good guys vs. bad guys, and they are probably right.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:15
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PT6A posted:Again, I find it consistently amazing that more people aren't paying attention to the Nazi/Resistance/Allies parallels in the film. They're present for a reason, and add context to the conflict. I don't know how much more unsubtle it could have been. Trying to ignore those things, either out of ignorance or for some reason on purpose, is going to lead to a very bizarre reading of the film. The Nazi and Resistance imagery is unconvincing though--the First Order look like Nazis but they're more like Oregon militiamen with nukes, and the Resistance is called "The Resistance" but it's actually more like Willem Dafoe's shooters in Clear and Present Danger.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:21
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porfiria posted:The Nazi and Resistance imagery is unconvincing though--the First Order look like Nazis but they're more like Oregon militiamen with nukes, and the Resistance is called "The Resistance" but it's actually more like Willem Dafoe's shooters in Clear and Present Danger. For an example of a movie that does the exact same plot as Force Awakens much more effectively and coherently, watch Terminator Salvation.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:31
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PT6A posted:Again, I find it consistently amazing that more people aren't paying attention to the Nazi/Resistance/Allies parallels in the film. They're present for a reason, and add context to the conflict. I don't know how much more unsubtle it could have been. Trying to ignore those things, either out of ignorance or for some reason on purpose, is going to lead to a very bizarre reading of the film. Situation isn't really the same at all though. The closer parallel is the Spanish Civil War, with the First Order being the Nationalists and the Resistance being the Republicans (the actual Republic in this case is like...Stalinist Russia).
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Jan 4, 2016 19:33
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homullus posted:We know they're bad. We just don't know what they are. In ANH, we knew there was an emperor and a senate. My takeaway is that Disney decided that Star Wars fans care only about good guys vs. bad guys, and they are probably right. Except the main antagonist, Kylo Ren, is more nuanced and conflicted than any villain in the previous movies. J. J. Abrams decided to present the large ideological conflict through personal struggle rather than galactic politics. Kylo Ren represents the battle between darkness and light.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:39
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Phylodox posted:Except the main antagonist, Kylo Ren, is more nuanced and conflicted than any villain in the previous movies. J. J. Abrams decided to present the large ideological conflict through personal struggle rather than galactic politics. Kylo Ren represents the battle between darkness and light. That's literally what I said in my post before that one. Disney decided Star Wars was Darth Vader is conflicted and hunts the roster of stereotyped "good" guys, and either didn't add or quickly wrapped up everything else. The other bad guys have illusion-y names, only Kylo Ren matters.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:43
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computer parts posted:The reason why people praise Jesus is that he fulfills the Jewish prophecy of the Messiah. His acts don't really matter that much. This is pages back, but as someone who (as an amateur) likes to read about this stuff, this is an astonishingly ignorant post.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:51
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Shageletic posted:This is pages back, but as someone who (as an amateur) likes to read about this stuff, this is an astonishingly ignorant post. The main reason Christians view him as a Messiah (I mean, other than "I'm Christian from Birth") is that he fulfilled the prophecy of the Messiah. Him being a swell guy is only incidental to that.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:58
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computer parts posted:The main reason Christians view him as a Messiah (I mean, other than "I'm Christian from Birth") is that he fulfilled the prophecy of the Messiah. Him being a swell guy is only incidental to that. Exactly; everyone knows Vader 'brings balance to the force', but nobody knows what that means.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:07
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computer parts posted:The main reason Christians view him as a Messiah (I mean, other than "I'm Christian from Birth") is that he fulfilled the prophecy of the Messiah. Him being a swell guy is only incidental to that. Okay, this might be too much of derail, but good god man. There is no main reason why "Christians" (who are we talking about here? Calvinists? Nestorians? Melanasian islanders?, all of whom presumably significant doctrinal differences regarding the idea of Christ). Christianity as we know it now is a constantly changing grabbag of ideas and conventions that originally fused together originally from half a dozen Mediterrenan religions and Greek philisophy and focus on an ideal realm. The idea that this mysterious quotient of Christians would not only be conversant on the biblical prophecies found in some parts of the Old Testament (some of whom directly contradict each other), but use them as their basis of belief is.....questionable at best. Jesus didn't fulfill those prophecies even according to the New Testament, BTW. Anyway, to mark a circle around my post, I'd recommend Diarmond McCulloch's Christianity:The First Three Thousand Years as a starting point for getting into the subject. It's fantastic reading.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Exactly; everyone knows Vader 'brings balance to the force', but nobody knows what that means. Turns out obi wan has a cold and Anakin was supposed to bring ballots to the force. He died and he let them vote "Should we awaken yes/no"
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Jan 4, 2016 20:23
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Shageletic posted:
That's literally the reason why The OT is included in the Bible. computer parts fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 20:24
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I saw the movie a second time and found it even more disappointing than the first. I knew Disney was going to play it safe, but I didn't really fathom how safe. Besides rehashing the main points of basically redoing ANH only worse that everyone else has mentioned-- I mean god drat if it wasn't for the Ewoks people would have said Death Star 2 Bugaloo would have been the worst thing of RoTJ, BESIDES that-- the whole McGuffin of the film is stupid. A map to Luke Skywalker? What the gently caress? Why is Luke being such a dick and hide himself but giving people a map to him to fight over? Smuggling plans to the Death Star out to show its only weakness was a great McGuffin in A New Hope-- it is drat better than Mr. Asian General dude moving his hands around in a way saying "there must be some sort of thing that we can do to blow up this EVEN BIGGER DEATH STAR..." Seriously, watch the guys hands while he talking, it is kind of funny. Anyhow, yeah. The prequels were mostly boring and a let down due to not being extremely entertaining due to Lucas being surrounded by yes-men, but at least they did something somewhat new. JJ is surrounded by Yes men as well, only all he knows how to do is rip off poo poo from people who were far more creative them himself. Of course that is what makes money, especially hearing people cheer in the theater seeing Han Solo's sad old face, even though his character regressed and to basically square one. With Disney's shareholders demanding each next movie being even MORE profitable than this one, you can bet the countless sequels will be even worse somehow.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:50
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You should see it a third time just in case, then you can really tear them down and show Disney.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:01
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greatn posted:You should see it a third time just in case, then you can really tear them down and show Disney. Be reasonable. They are going to be releasing a new movie every year, he needs to save his money so he can see each of those a few times.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:04
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computer parts posted:That's literally the reason why The OT is included in the Bible. I don't know what you're saying here. EDIT: Are you talking about the various Councils occuring in the 3rd and 4th century AD? Again, a lot of reasons why things were or were not included in any part of the Bible. You can't ascribe a single reason to any of it.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:05
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Was the whole 'bring balance to the force" thing mentioned in the OT? I always thought SW was about Lukes journey and that Vader was just some flunky.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:06
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Guy A. Person posted:Be reasonable. They are going to be releasing a new movie every year, he needs to save his money so he can see each of those a few times. I'm going for my 6th trip tomorrow 
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Jan 4, 2016 21:07
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jivjov posted:I'm going for my 6th trip tomorrow I'm concerned about your spending habits
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Jan 4, 2016 21:09
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Shageletic posted:I don't know what you're saying here. There is no reason for the Old Testament to be in Christian canon except in how it relates to Jesus. I get that your argument boils down to "Not All Christians think x" but that's a supremely boring thing to say.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:09
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lol okay
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Jan 4, 2016 21:19
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It seems pretty much a truism that Christians worship Christ because he's the son of God.Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:Was the whole 'bring balance to the force" thing mentioned in the OT? I always thought SW was about Lukes journey and that Vader was just some flunky. Who even cares about the OT? There are only two Star Wars that matter anymore: the prequels, and the speculation about the ones that aren't out yet.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:20
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  The goons are actually pretty cool looking. I'm the guy on the back left with the asscreed hood and paddle. I couldn't make a lightsaber, but it's the effort that counts.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:23
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greatn posted:You should see it a third time just in case, then you can really tear them down and show Disney. My wife and I got talked into seeing it again with some friends who had not seen it and REALLY wanted to. We both regret giving them money again.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:23
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