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I love Obama trolling the gently caress out of these people by just ignoring them lol
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Jan 4, 2016 21:56
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Cythereal posted:I suspect it's trying to tell the militia "We're not impressed. You dipshits aren't worth our time." Oh I'm sure, and there's a logic to it, but I don't love the precedent it sets, which is that any armed group can go takeover federal buildings as long as they are unoccupied at the time and they aren't blowing them up. edit: I mean, if CAIR did this same thing to protest a Muslim being unfairly added to the no fly list, what would happen? It opens up huge claims of selective enforcement. Xandu fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 21:59
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Venom Snake posted:Yeah why aren't the BLM rushing out to get shot at and die. We have contingency plans for exactly this sort of thing. It wasn't LAPD's HR department chasing after Chris Dorner.  Smart money would be on pulling it off without a shot fired as well. Venom Snake posted:I love Obama trolling the gently caress out of these people by just ignoring them lol It's a really loving stupid message to send, actually.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:59
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:I think local law enforcement is very capable of sitting back and watching a bunch of dumbasses become a national laughingstock. They know exactly who these people are and where they live what they've spent money on, all of their personal texts phone calls and emails, who their known associates are, and could have any of them picked up at any time after this blows over. Why would they even need to even physically be present.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:02
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Al! posted:They know exactly who these people are and where they live what they've spent money on, all of their personal texts phone calls and emails, who their known associates are, and could have any of them picked up at any time after this blows over. But will they? They didn't do it after the last Bundy stand-off. It seems more like a decision to just hope it blows over than to arrest them peacefully later.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:03
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Rhesus Pieces posted:
That seems like it should be a screenshot from blazing saddles 2: electric gently caress u 2 No really, is it a windy day? was he winking? That looks like some kind of stroke or palsy.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:05
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FetusSlapper posted:That looks like some kind of stroke or palsy. man he totally would've joined the military too, but they wouldn't let him.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:06
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Venom Snake posted:I love Obama trolling the gently caress out of these people by just ignoring them lol I don't. They shouldn't be ignored. If this were Black Lives Matter they'd all be beaten and/or arrested and/or shot right now.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:06
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I seem to recall people in this thread saying the exact same loving thing the last time and it didn't happen and it looks like it's not going to happen this time either. This poo poo is only going to get worse the more it is ignored. Coming down on them like a hammer may seem like bad optics but it's what has to be done before it gets out of control.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:07
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Volkerball posted:It's a really loving stupid message to send, actually. These morons don't deserve to be acknowledged. As said earlier just cut off their resources and they will just eventually give up. Volkerball posted:We have contingency plans for exactly this sort of thing. It wasn't LAPD's HR department chasing after Chris Dorner. A ton of the agents back during the Bundy ranch ordeal had to sit around with rifles pointed at them 24/7. You can bet if things got hot some wouldn't come back alive.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:08
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KomradeX posted:I seem to recall people in this thread saying the exact same loving thing the last time and it didn't happen and it looks like it's not going to happen this time either. This poo poo is only going to get worse the more it is ignored. Coming down on them like a hammer may seem like bad optics but it's what has to be done before it gets out of control. These idiots WANT the hammer to come down. They want to be Martyrs.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:09
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Volkerball posted:there's actually controversy over this. the leader of the oathkeepers says that the family doesn't want them there, but bundy responded by saying that the family has accepted their punishment, yet they still support bundy in this action to prevent it from happening to other people. so in short, all of these groups of armed men are completely uncoordinated and have no idea what the gently caress is going on. it's like watching a bunch of nerds from the stolen valor videos trying to run a fighting force. That's the problem when everyone is a captain and no one is a muleskinner.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:09
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Venom Snake posted:These morons don't deserve to be acknowledged. As said earlier just cut off their resources and they will just eventually give up. I'm glad we don't apply the venom snake strategy to other violations of the law. quote:A ton of the agents back during the Bundy ranch ordeal had to sit around with rifles pointed at them 24/7. You can bet if things got hot some wouldn't come back alive. So you're saying this is a potential hostage situation. That you want to ignore.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:10
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Venom Snake posted:These idiots WANT the hammer to come down. They want to be Martyrs. If a murderer WANTS to be caught do you loving ignore him?
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Jan 4, 2016 22:11
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Okay fine we ignore them and than a few weeks later some one that was there goes and shoots up another Walmart cause everyone was all talk ,than a few months later they go and occupy another federal building or start a standoff over bullshit. Ignoring them and letting them fester is going to blow the gently caress up in our faces
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Jan 4, 2016 22:11
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Rhesus Pieces posted:
I didn't even think about that. Does he expect people to send him stuff using the US postal service? That'd be ironic.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:12
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MAYDAY SEND CASHEWS AND RED BULL
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crucify them along I-5 crassus-style
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Jan 4, 2016 22:12
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Volkerball posted:I'm glad we don't apply the venom snake strategy to other violations of the law. It's a violation of the law yeah but why the gently caress give them what they want? Their hostage is a deserted visitors center. How exactly could the hammer brought down without people dying? Volkerball posted:If a murderer WANTS to be caught do you loving ignore him? If these retards do actually murder or harm someone I would absolutely support just bringing in a killdozer and destroying the center with them in it but a park visiting center is not worth possible bloodshed.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:13
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Xandu posted:But will they? They didn't do it after the last Bundy stand-off. It seems more like a decision to just hope it blows over than to arrest them peacefully later. Probably not but they don't have to, these men are scum, but probably only a threat to their family and friends, a matter for local law enforcement. Now if you want to get into how race plays into deciding who is "harmless" and who isn't from that perspective we can have a conversation.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:13
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fart blood posted:I don't. They shouldn't be ignored. If this were Black Lives Matter they'd all be beaten and/or arrested and/or shot right now. This. It's an insane double standard. If it were anyone besides a bunch of white guys, the place probably would have been droned or mustard gassed by now.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:15
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Abner Cadaver II posted:crucify them along I-5 crassus-style Actually I'm switching my answer to this because it's the best way to make an example of someone other than guillotine.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:17
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One of the problems is that anything the federal government does or does not do in response to this situation will be regarded as a troubling precedent. This country is so polarized and the fringes so wound up that there is nothing the government can do that won't be decried, including doing nothing.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:18
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Al! posted:Probably not but they don't have to, these men are scum, but probably only a threat to their family and friends, a matter for local law enforcement. I'll ignore the race thing, because you're right, that's a different discussion in many ways, but are these people "only a threat to their family and friends"? I don't think the Bundys themselves are stupid enough to want to commit violence at this point, they seem to be benefitting from their niche celebrity, but they and the broader militia/sovereign citizen absolutely attract some crazy, violent people, who have absolutely no problems committing violence and murder.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:19
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I do not blame B-Rock the Islamic Shock because he is making a sensible decision in the lovely environment which he did not create and which his opposition will only reinforce. The greater point of "we will eventually have to stop catering to the frothing delusions of rural whites with such deference" is true, of course.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:20
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I'm the mule that kicked his face as a child.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:20
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I wonder how many of the folks holed up there are dealing with untreated PTSD.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:21
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Venom Snake posted:It's a violation of the law yeah but why the gently caress give them what they want? Their hostage is a deserted visitors center. How exactly could the hammer brought down without people dying? What they want is completely irrelevant. What is more important? That these men don't get their "martyrdom," or that the United States, clearly and transparently, holds its citizens to the letter of the law as per the constitution consistently? I can't even believe we're having this discussion. And I'm not going to go diving into infantry chat since I don't know the specifics of the situation on the ground, but there are men who the United States pays millions upon millions of dollars training to bring the hammer down precisely in the desired manner, and they are very good at this. There's several ways to de-escalate the situation non-lethally while also establishing control. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 22:22
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You shouldn't care about this remote building that probably nobody uses and there is no point is exerting control for the sake of it. Your argument is basically "rules are rules" but actually its better to engage your brain about whats best instead of blindly insisting on upholding some stupid law and getting a bunch of people killed.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:28
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Salt Fish posted:You shouldn't care about this remote building that probably nobody uses and there is no point is exerting control for the sake of it. Your argument is basically "rules are rules" but actually its better to engage your brain about whats best instead of blindly insisting on upholding some stupid law and getting a bunch of people killed. As a user of the building they're occupying (seriously) I understand why there's not a huge federal reaction to this. It's in the middle of loving nowhere.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:29
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Abner Cadaver II posted:For anyone wondering: the unincorporated community of Voltage is definitely not cool enough to deserve that name. quote:Voltage post office was established in 1908 by Walter C. Botsford, the first postmaster, who was interested in electricity and thought that the river could generate enough "voltage" to serve the entire Harney Valley.[3] He had confused voltage with power; a hydropower project was never attempted. lol There's a local law enforcement press conference happening at 3 PST apparently.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:30
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Salt Fish posted:You shouldn't care about this remote building that probably nobody uses and there is no point is exerting control for the sake of it. Your argument is basically "rules are rules" but actually its better to engage your brain about whats best instead of blindly insisting on upholding some stupid law and getting a bunch of people killed. a stupid law lol. gently caress it, i can just get some of the old gang together and we'll go raid the place ourselves. so long as it's in a remote area, it's fine. we'll go take over a jail and a courthouse in bumfuck nowhere and throw em in there. occupy it until their sentences are up.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:30
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Al! posted:They know exactly who these people are and where they live what they've spent money on, all of their personal texts phone calls and emails, who their known associates are, and could have any of them picked up at any time after this blows over. This is what I thought after the first Bundy fiasco but obviously nothing came of that. They sure didn't miss the chance to bust out the stingray-equipped surveillance planes to spy on Baltimore protesters though! I think at this point it's all about risks vs rewards. There's no benefit in putting a bunch of federal agents in danger to retake a closed wildlife refuge building in the middle of nowhere except to save face. If they were burning the buildings down or holding hostages it would be a completely different story, but for now all these hayseeds are doing is trespassing and talking poo poo. Yes it's an insane double standard to point M4 carbines at unarmed black protesters while armed white hicks get to camp at a backwoods federal building unmolested, but that doesn't make calling out the ATFE and the national guard to kill them all to make it even a sound idea.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:31
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Alter Ego posted:...and yet these guys aren't getting tear-gassed/tazed and arrested. Why is that, do you think? Because they're occupying a federal wildlife reservation, not a park in the middle of downtown. Remember when Occupy got tear gassed by federal agents? Neither do I - they were tear gassed by city police. zeal posted:If the FBI really has yet to set up a basic circumvallation of these dipshits and their birdwatching fort, I really have to question the competence of every level of the federal response to this. Why? They haven't hurt anyone and they're not endangering anyone or even really bothering anyone, except for whoever wants to go visit a wildlife refuge in winter. As things stand, the worst they can do is a little property damage, and they'll probably lose heart and disperse within a month or two - even if their occupation goes well, I doubt most of them can totally abandon their regular lives for all that long. Sending federal agents will only boost their morale and raise the risk of harm or escalation. There's simply nothing there important enough to be worth the risks of intervening right now. Occupying the building is a crime, yes, but not one worth an armed standoff over, especially given that these occupations always peter out on their own eventually. Plenty of people have brought up Occupy, but while a few Occupy groups faced conflict with the cops, plenty of others didn't! The reason Occupy isn't a thing amymore is because people gave it up on their own. Occupy Tallahassee, for instance, sat around in some low-visibility field near a construction site for maybe two years with no interference from the cops, then sent out a vague press release declaring "victory" and dispersed on their own. Now, another factor is that this is in no way urgent. Nobody's in immediate danger, and it's the middle of the winter. Right now, the only cost of them being there is that some federal employees get to collect their paychecks while sitting at home and worrying about their coffee mug. If they're still there in five months, law enforcement can always change their tune and send in agents or something. It's not a now or never thing - pressure can always be ramped up later. There's no hurry. Now, what if they were black leftists? The rhetoric against them would be totally different, but the response wouldn't be. The difference in treatment has far more to do with location and jurisdiction than anything else - in general, local police departments (especially in cities) are far more likely to quickly jump to a kick-in-the-doors SWAT team solution, whereas the FBI prefers to take things slow, safe, and thorough.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:32
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if we intervened it'd be iraq all over again imo.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:33
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fart blood posted:I don't. They shouldn't be ignored. If this were Black Lives Matter they'd all be beaten and/or arrested and/or shot right now. If it was BLM I don't think anyone would have even noticed.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:34
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ansel autisms posted:As a user of the building they're occupying (seriously) I understand why there's not a huge federal reaction to this. It's in the middle of loving nowhere. So, is it a WPA project? It looks like one.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:35
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Xandu posted:I'll ignore the race thing, because you're right, that's a different discussion in many ways, but are these people "only a threat to their family and friends"? I don't think the Bundys themselves are stupid enough to want to commit violence at this point, they seem to be benefitting from their niche celebrity, but they and the broader militia/sovereign citizen absolutely attract some crazy, violent people, who have absolutely no problems committing violence and murder. I honestly don't believe that those people can be stopped by arresting these sad sack losers. The crazy violent people they attract will glom onto anything they can to fuel their raging mental illnesses, we won't be able to stop the violence until we find some way of keeping guns out of these people's hands, for good.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:36
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Warcabbit posted:So, is it a WPA project? It looks like one. Yep, along with the field station (with a gymnasium!) a few miles away they haven't occupied.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:37
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It's interesting that these guys have found the time to abandon their 9-5 jobs that are supposed to provide for their families to go sit in an abandoned building and fondle their guns, and yet black people are the lazy moochers who want handouts.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:41
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It's also interesting that they want land all Americans own handed to them to do as they see fit. A hand out you might say
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Jan 4, 2016 22:41
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