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I have no difficulty imagining different visuals from the movies as I reread, but the score is there every time.
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Dec 30, 2015 02:55
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 I like how Nargothrond here just looks like a bunch of doors in a dyke. I generally imagine something way more subdued and empty when I read the books, the movies are too grandiose, inspired by an inappropriately New Worldish landscape sensibility and end up looking like World of Warcraft.
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Dec 30, 2015 03:00
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I think Legolas is supposed to be about as tall as a human; the Noldor (and he's not one) seemed to be somewhat taller but I forget where that impression came from. I do think Boromir was specifically a big guy if not like, freakishly huge.
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Dec 30, 2015 04:13
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Shibawanko posted:
Do you mean the landscapes themselves or the structures? I think big grandiose architecture makes sense for things the Numenoreans built at the height of their power (Orthanc, Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Minas Morgul).
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Dec 30, 2015 04:28
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jivjov posted:If I wanted to collect this particular printing of The History of Middle Earth: Get them all here Though certain books sell out and you may have to wait for a bit to fill in your gaps. For example, War of the Jewels is sold out right now but everything else is available. I'm missing one or two but they are in that style of cover and they are brand new so you don't have to hunt around for them. pixelbaron fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 04:50
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bartlebyshop posted:Do you mean the landscapes themselves or the structures? I think big grandiose architecture makes sense for things the Numenoreans built at the height of their power (Orthanc, Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Minas Morgul). Both. Tolkien's own illustrations (and the ones done by others which he liked) were all really sparse. It's supposed to take place in a kind of antediluvian, unfinished version of our world, after all. I liked to imagine that sort of scene as I read the books but the movies went the opposite way and made everything condensed and spectacular. I guess my problem is mostly with the landscapes and the way Mordor looked. Partly it's because they simply cut out the parts where they're simply wandering through the wasteland between various places, I guess, but I enjoyed those parts the most in the books. My biggest problem with the Hobbit movies is what they did to the Mirkwood scenes. Here's Barad Dur drawn by Tolkien: 
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Dec 30, 2015 07:21
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Mirkwood in the Hobbit was the only thing in any of the movies that looked anything like I pictured it while reading the books growing up. It's the only visual from the movies I really like; perhaps a bit stylized but I thought it really captured the cramped, disorienting nature of the corrupted wood.
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Dec 30, 2015 15:44
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Isengard was supposedly an outpost of Gondor of which Saruman was custodian - and only later de facto ruler/owner - so how come before his conversion to evil/ambition Orthanc was pretty much Tower of Evil (registered trademark) in the film? To be faithful, Isengard/Orthanc would be Gondorian architecture and only partially and belatedly converted by Saruman in the course of a few months but I guess Tower of Evil was more visually distinct for the film. Question: What were the One Ring's powers? How exactly would the Ring have turned the course of the war? Power 1. Invisibility for wearer. 2. Immortality for wearer/bearer. 3. Supposedly dominion over the other rings of power. But what does that mean? Gollum/Bilbo/Frodo never commanded the Nazgul or the other ring bearers. Power 4...erm...? I get that Sauron is the only Lord of the Rings so what does the bearer get besides powers 1 and 2? Surely it is only the power to destroy Sauron via destruction of the ring. So what is all this "if I took the ring to Gondor we would use this mighty weapon to...." well, what exactly? Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 23:20
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Isengard was supposedly an outpost of Gondor of which Saruman was custodian - and only later de facto ruler/owner - so how come before his conversion to evil/ambition Orthanc was pretty much Tower of Evil (registered trademark) in the film? To be faithful, Isengard/Orthanc would be Gondorian architecture and only partially and belatedly converted by Saruman in the course of a few months but I guess Tower of Evil was more visually distinct for the film. It's probably that, mostly. But the architecture of Gondor likely owed a lot to the kinds of imposing and menacing structures that the Numenóreans were used to building by the end of the Second Age. Plus I'll bet it would have looked pretty cool in sunlight and with a bright white finish. quote:Question: What were the One Ring's powers? How exactly would the Ring have turned the course of the war? Power 1. Invisibility for wearer. 2. Immortality for wearer/bearer. 3. Supposedly dominion over the other rings of power. But what does that mean? Gollum/Bilbo/Frodo never commanded the Nazgul or the other ring bearers. Power 4...erm...? Dominion over the minds and wills of others. If you're a military commander and you have the Ring, you can muster up a force that nobody can withstand, even Sauron. But it depends on the kind of person you are. It'll find insidious ways to turn you into a tyrant no matter what you start out as; for instance Gandalf would start out trying to bring wisdom and kindness to the world and would become an enforcer of righteous thought or some such. Or Sam would try to garden his way to Paradise, but would only turn the whole world into a twisted evil arboretum—I don't know, something like that.
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Dec 30, 2015 23:32
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Isengard was supposedly an outpost of Gondor of which Saruman was custodian - and only later de facto ruler/owner - so how come before his conversion to evil/ambition Orthanc was pretty much Tower of Evil (registered trademark) in the film? To be faithful, Isengard/Orthanc would be Gondorian architecture and only partially and belatedly converted by Saruman in the course of a few months but I guess Tower of Evil was more visually distinct for the film. Actually, Orthanc was built the way it looks in the Fellowship at the start, complete with the claw/fang bits on top. Numenoreans were mean colonial overlords. To get why the Ring would let Gondor win, it helps to understand why they were losing. Gondor couldn't coordinate effectively with the Elves, who should have been their allies in the war. They act as a shield for the rest of the Free Peoples. The elves have not left their forests and sanctuaries for a long time, because those areas are protected. Galadriel protects Lorien with her Ring - enemies get lost and cannot pass its borders. When the Nazgul ride west to find Frodo, they try to avoid passing near Lorien, because it's a hated place for them. The One Ring would let Sauron/anyone else see the thoughts of the other ring bearers, and know what they were planning and their true strength. It would let (after you learned to control it) you command anyone who wore a Ring of Power. So Gondor/Sauron would be able to command the elves to do whatever they/he wanted. Their defenses would be useless. Gondor also has a real manpower and morale shortage. The Rings in general (Gandalf uses his for this!) give you the ability to charm/inspire/convince/intimidate other people. Sauron with the Ring was able to convince the Numenoreans to completely destroy themselves very quickly. It could also be used to terrify groups of people into fighting for you - the Orcs (and the Nazgul) are in this situation. What they want to do doesn't matter (the Orcs actually really don't like working for Sauron), but their loathing is exceeded only by their fear. So Gondor could press gang basically everyone into fighting for them, and they could fight harder and longer for the same reason people who are running for their lives can run farther than they normally could. Sauron built the foundations to Barad-dur with the Ring, and the base of the tower couldn't be destroyed while the Ring survived. Sauron was originally a Maia of Aule i.e. he had like 30 base ranks in smithing, but the Ring allows you to build things that are basically indestructible. Gondor could have reinforced their walls and survived basically any siege. Tolkien writes in a letter that if Gollum hadn't bit off Frodo's finger, the Nazgul would have come, but they wouldn't have been able to hurt Frodo directly while he had the One Ring. Instead, they would have tried to distract him by talking and flattery until Sauron could show up himself, in which case Frodo would have been completely defeated. Before he got to the Sammath Naur, Frodo never claimed the Ring, so the Nazgul could attack him directly. Basically the Ring lets you take "shortcuts" to power that you haven't earned. You don't have to actually do the work of convincing people to support you, you can just force them. You don't have to convince them to do the right thing, you can just force them (so goodness doesn't matter any more - what does it mean to do the right thing if you have no other choice?). You don't have to inspire them to fight with you, you can just force them. Also, the Ring wouldn't have made Gandalf or Galadriel invisible. It only has that effect on things that don't have forms in the Wraith/Spirit world - mortals, dark elves, hobbits, orcs, and dwarves. tl;dr 
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Dec 30, 2015 23:35
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How does one cast one's hood over one's face
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Dec 30, 2015 23:59
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pixelbaron posted:Get them all here Unfortunately it doesn't look like they ship to the US 
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Dec 31, 2015 00:07
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AnonSpore posted:How does one cast one's hood over one's face http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm
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Dec 31, 2015 00:13
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At which point did Tolkien turn Gollum's ring to the One ring?
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Dec 31, 2015 00:19
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jivjov posted:Unfortunately it doesn't look like they ship to the US Once you make an account and input your shipping address and start to checkout it will change to international shipping based on where you're at.
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Dec 31, 2015 01:12
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Hogge Wild posted:At which point did Tolkien turn Gollum's ring to the One ring? After the hobbit was published.
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Dec 31, 2015 01:34
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pixelbaron posted:Once you make an account and input your shipping address and start to checkout it will change to international shipping based on where you're at. Oh neat! I'll get on that then!
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Dec 31, 2015 02:07
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The thing that snaps my suspenders in pretty much all Tolkien art (but especially the movies) is that the Black Riders are always shown in big billowing robes which scream 'bad guy'. They're supposed to be wearing normal if heavy on the black traveler's gear, as a disguise. They're dressed close enough to Aragorn's outfit that the hobbits think he might be one.
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Jan 1, 2016 15:08
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ZeusJupitar posted:The thing that snaps my suspenders in pretty much all Tolkien art (but especially the movies) is that the Black Riders are always shown in big billowing robes which scream 'bad guy'. They're supposed to be wearing normal if heavy on the black traveler's gear, as a disguise. They're dressed close enough to Aragorn's outfit that the hobbits think he might be one. The movie plays with this briefly; the first shot we see of Aragorn has him hooded and in the shadows.
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Jan 1, 2016 16:33
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ZeusJupitar posted:The thing that snaps my suspenders in pretty much all Tolkien art (but especially the movies) is that the Black Riders are always shown in big billowing robes which scream 'bad guy'. They're supposed to be wearing normal if heavy on the black traveler's gear, as a disguise. They're dressed close enough to Aragorn's outfit that the hobbits think he might be one. ...I never thought of that before. Now this is going to bother me all day.
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Jan 1, 2016 17:15
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Doesn't bother me, cause I'm not a loving nerd 
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Jan 2, 2016 02:47
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Yeah I'm not that observant. The only thing I noticed was that Saruman's robes didn't turn a bunch of different colors in the movie.
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Jan 2, 2016 07:55
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Personally I assume that in-universe they are dressed normally(at least through Bree), the billowing cloaks is just a visual cue for the audience in visual media(also I need to rewatch it, but I think the Bakshi film had them not do the cloak thing, but I could be wrong, it's been a couple years since I last saw it)
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Jan 2, 2016 09:52
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pixelbaron posted:Get them all here Now I wish I hadn't bought that biography of Samuel de Champlain: I'd have gotten one or two of those instead. Gotta wait like a responsible adult now...
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Jan 2, 2016 09:57
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No seriously, how do you cast your hood over your face
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Jan 2, 2016 14:46
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AnonSpore posted:No seriously, how do you cast your hood over your face It just means pulling your hood up, in a really
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Jan 2, 2016 14:54
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ZeusJupitar posted:The thing that snaps my suspenders in pretty much all Tolkien art (but especially the movies) is that the Black Riders are always shown in big billowing robes which scream 'bad guy'. They're supposed to be wearing normal if heavy on the black traveler's gear, as a disguise. They're dressed close enough to Aragorn's outfit that the hobbits think he might be one. Are you accusing adaptations of a lack of subtlety? 
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Jan 2, 2016 18:55
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AnonSpore posted:No seriously, how do you cast your hood over your face "Is there no hope?" gasped Frito. "Is nowhere safe?" "Who can know?" said Goodgulf, and a shadow seemed to pass over his face. "I would say more," he said, "but a shadow seems to have passed over my face," and with that he fell strangely silent.
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Jan 2, 2016 21:22
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He would have finished Goddam off then and there, but pity stayed his hand. It's a pity I've run out of bullets, he thought...
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Jan 2, 2016 21:40
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ZeusJupitar posted:It just means pulling your hood up, in a really See I always figured it was something like that, but it would have to be a very long hood indeed to reach all the way over your face, and then you wouldn't be able to see where you're going!
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Jan 2, 2016 21:44
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Tolkien knew hoodies looked dangerous long before American cops did. 
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Jan 3, 2016 03:41
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Are you accusing adaptations of a lack of subtlety? I just got out of a theater hosted marathon of the extended editions and drat did I facepalm so hard at that scene. It was a wise choice to cut that crap out, and I can only imagine how bad the Annatar scene would have been if they hadn't stopped doing coke long enough to realize it was dumb. 
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Jan 4, 2016 09:15
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What was the Annatar scene?
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Jan 4, 2016 19:42
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:What was the Annatar scene? In Return of the King that ending fight between the cave troll and Aragorn was actually Sauron. They apparently had him coming out of the gates in his 'fair, beautiful' Annatar form before breaking the illusion and fighting Aragorn as the black armored Sauron. Ended up making a cave troll over Sauron in the end. pixelbaron fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 19:57
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pixelbaron posted:In Return of the King that ending fight between the cave troll and Aragorn was actually Sauron. They apparently had him coming out of the gates in his 'fair, beautiful' Annatar form before breaking the illusion and fighting Aragorn as the black armored Sauron. Ended up making a cave troll over Sauron in the end. Is there a video of this somewhere, or did they wisely scrap the idea before doing the CGI? I remember the (in)famous leaks of 
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Jan 4, 2016 20:16
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Ynglaur posted:Is there a video of this somewhere, or did they wisely scrap the idea before doing the CGI? I remember the (in)famous leaks of They changed their minds before they had to animate it and changed it to a CGI troll. The only remnants are those shots of Legolas frantically trying to crawl over all those orcs when Aragorn goes down.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:01
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Ynglaur posted:Is there a video of this somewhere, or did they wisely scrap the idea before doing the CGI? I remember the (in)famous leaks of There are stills on the ROTKEE DVD's special features, but they never finished it completely.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:03
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Vavrek posted:And short! Something which stood out to me when returning to The Lord of the Rings after a long absence, during which I'd watched the films, is how few characters are considered Big People. When there's high snow drifts to carve a path through, it's just Aragorn and Boromir who handle it, while Gandalf is a haggard and bent old man and Legolas is merely an elf, probably not much taller than Gimli. (If that?)* McKellan and Mortensen are both, according to IMDb, 5'11". (Bloom as well, apparently.) IIRC Tolkien was pretty explicit about character heights in his letters. Aragorn was a nearly pure blooded Numenorean and was supposed to be 6'6"+, most elves were quite tall, I think Elrond was 7' or taller and some of the older elves like Feanor and Fingolfin were signficantly taller than that.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:18
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Having Dikembe Mutombo sized elves towering over everyone else would look ridiculous though. I think the relative character heights from the movies are fine, in that Legolas is (barely) tallest, followed by Gandalf/Aragorn/Boromir at roughly the same height. The hobbits are all about the same, and Gimli's a bit taller than them.
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Jan 5, 2016 01:59
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Aragorn was not only numenorian but also a decedent of the elves Elwing and Idril. Well Elwing was half elven. Aragorn is a decedent of Melian a Maiar. So he's got human, elf, and angel blood. He's a big deal. euphronius fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 02:23
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