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Bad Seafood posted:The ability to create people puppets is one of my favorite "Bad guy" superpowers, both for the innate horror factor as well as the obvious benefits and limitations. It's an interesting ability that's unnerving to see in action and makes for a compelling combat puzzle on both sides. Shalnark himself is also one of my favorite Spiders, and I really like how his cheerful attitude and even-keeled temperament contrasts with his job, affiliations, and lifestyle. Him flipping a super strength switch which puts him on auto-pilot effectively cuts out everything I liked about his character. I didn't get the impression that Shalnark's super mode was especially powerful: it's more of a panic button for when everything else fails. In terms of raw strength, I doubt it's even nearly a match for the more frontline fighters in the Troupe, and probably unreliable against anyone he'd normally consider a threat. It just makes him not totally useless in a brawl. Also, I don't see how it'd be much of a combat puzzle to go up against, honestly. It's just a binary "dodge or die" attack, since once he tags you he just wins immediately.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:39
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Genthru is the only real boss I didn't care for. Just did not look intimidating or interesting or anything.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:50
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Clarste posted:I didn't get the impression that Shalnark's super mode was especially powerful: it's more of a panic button for when everything else fails. In terms of raw strength, I doubt it's even nearly a match for the more frontline fighters in the Troupe, and probably unreliable against anyone he'd normally consider a threat. It just makes him not totally useless in a brawl. The whole people puzzle thing isn't meant to be a puzzle for the people who get controlled, it's a puzzle for everyone else - or can be at least. Chess isn't a puzzle for the pieces, it's a game between players. This doesn't necessarily apply to Hunter x Hunter, but let's say we've got a bad guy who's physically weak but can manipulate people and a good guy who's strong but doesn't want to injure innocent bystanders. Can you see how this setup would lead to a tense situation?
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Jan 4, 2016 19:40
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Shalnark's baby face freaks me the hell out. He's twenty-four! Like, I know its anime and that's how anime works but I feel like his head doesn't match his body.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:47
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Bad Seafood posted:The whole people puzzle thing isn't meant to be a puzzle for the people who get controlled, it's a puzzle for everyone else - or can be at least. Chess isn't a puzzle for the pieces, it's a game between players. This doesn't necessarily apply to Hunter x Hunter, but let's say we've got a bad guy who's physically weak but can manipulate people and a good guy who's strong but doesn't want to injure innocent bystanders. Can you see how this setup would lead to a tense situation? I don't see how this changes anything actually. You can still have the exact same situation. I mean, did you ever expect Shalnark to be weak? Even Pakunoda and Shizuku and whatnot were more than a match for Gon and Killua at that point in the story, just from basic nen fundamentals, and there's no reason to think Shalnark wouldn't be at least as strong. The idea of a Phantom Troupe member being helpless enough that it becomes purely a game of hide and seek (instead of just mostly a game of hide and seek) was absurd to begin with, auto-pilot mode or not.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:16
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Weak and strong are relative terms. I never expected Shalnark to be a pushover - he's a licensed hunter - but given his skill set I find him more interesting when he's in a position where he needs to out-maneuver, out-think, or out-plan his opponents rather than simply overpower them. I simply framed things in terms of strength and weakness to make the point I was making more clear when you said you didn't understand how it could be a puzzle in the first place.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:27
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i agree with Bad Seafood. Not everybody needs to have a melee power to be considered strong. Shalnark would be plenty of dangerous without the ability to engage into battle himself.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:39
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Well, I just think it makes sense as the sort of back-up plan a clever person would choose. You want a flexible, well-rounded ability that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, so I took the reveal as just another indication of his cleverness, rather than undermining it.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 20:48
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RareAcumen posted:Genthru is the only real boss I didn't care for. Just did not look intimidating or interesting or anything. I enjoyed Genthru for just that reason. He's not a super criminal like the Phantom Troupe members (even if he is a mass murderer) nor is he a genetic monstrosity like the ants. He's just a top-tier Hunter, and that alone puts him head and shoulders above Gon, requiring the plan that only would have worked in GI to beat him. I also love how the first bit of their fight is one of the few more traditional fights that we get post-Heavens Arena. Clarste posted:Well, I just think it makes sense as the sort of back-up plan a clever person would choose. You want a flexible, well-rounded ability that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, so I took the reveal as just another indication of his cleverness, rather than undermining it. Agreed. He basically took the main weakness of your average Manipulator and made it into a strength.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:22
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I'm not sure if it was part of the plan but Pitou's version is way scarier than that dumb nerd's super saiyan gimmick
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Jan 4, 2016 21:29
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Genocyber posted:I enjoyed Genthru for just that reason. He's not a super criminal like the Phantom Troupe members (even if he is a mass murderer) nor is he a genetic monstrosity like the ants. He's just a top-tier Hunter, and that alone puts him head and shoulders above Gon, requiring the plan that only would have worked in GI to beat him. I also love how the first bit of their fight is one of the few more traditional fights that we get post-Heavens Arena. Which consists of Gon getting the crap getting kicked out of him because he was too proud to run away and lead Genthru into their trap right away. Anyway I also agree about the Auto pilot for Shalnark being a cool little thing. It's a back up ability in case his main tactics won't work. It's shows he is prepared, he outright states he does not use it often and it has side effects like weakening him for 2 to 3 days. It's also a fairly fun little power. He gives himself a command and until it's completed he remains in autopilot mode unaware of himself. (This is actually a major danger to himself. If he gives himself a command that can't be completed for some reason, he would remain unaware of himself and presumably just stand still forever.) Because he is manipulating himself he is immune to manipulation. Pretty much I like the powers Shalnark has.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:40
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I wish I could think of good things when I think of Genthru but the only thing that comes to mind is the first anime's version of the fight. That is, a bunch of still shots because it was the least animated anime ever. I really should just watch the new anime entirely to purge the old anime out of my memories.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:00
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Eej posted:I'm not sure if it was part of the plan but Pitou's version is way scarier than that dumb nerd's super saiyan gimmick Pitou's not even a manipulator. She conjurers horrible puppet things that control people and corpses.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:01
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YggiDee posted:Shalnark's baby face freaks me the hell out. He's twenty-four! Like, I know its anime and that's how anime works but I feel like his head doesn't match his body. I had no idea he was that old. Also is Leorio really an teenager? Maybe they meant he was 18-19 since technically you'd need at least 21 for medical school. Wait does anyone go to school in their world?!
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Jan 4, 2016 22:06
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Alder posted:I had no idea he was that old. Gon, now.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:Pitou's not even a manipulator. She conjurers horrible puppet things that control people and corpses. Pitou's a specialist, actually. So Manipulation and Conjuration are both nearby.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:42
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Alder posted:I had no idea he was that old. Leorio is 19 at the beginning and I think he's 22 by the time of the Election Arc. Bisky is pushing 60 
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Jan 5, 2016 00:44
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Roland Jones posted:Pitou's a specialist, actually. So Manipulation and Conjuration are both nearby. As I recall, they said something like "Manipulators and Conjurers are the groups most likely to develop a Specialist skill." The impression I got was that most if not all Specialists were like Kurapika, and had one of the normal categories plus Specialization on top of that. So, for example, Chrollo would be a conjurer/specialist (he summons the book), while Pitou would be a manipulator/specialist. It doesn't really make any difference though.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:49
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I liked that he added another character with a power similar to Chrollo's that had huge drawbacks to use just like his but because the character wasn't a specialist using the nen ability was a one time thing. He generally did a good job of showing why a character is a specialist without having to explain it
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Jan 5, 2016 00:56
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Jose posted:I liked that he added another character with a power similar to Chrollo's that had huge drawbacks to use just like his but because the character wasn't a specialist using the nen ability was a one time thing. He generally did a good job of showing why a character is a specialist without having to explain it Leol? He was a specialist.
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Jan 5, 2016 00:59
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Clarste posted:As I recall, they said something like "Manipulators and Conjurers are the groups most likely to develop a Specialist skill." The impression I got was that most if not all Specialists were like Kurapika, and had one of the normal categories plus Specialization on top of that. So, for example, Chrollo would be a conjurer/specialist (he summons the book), while Pitou would be a manipulator/specialist. Specialization is its own thing, it's just assumed to be closer to the "bottom" categories on the hexagon. It has its own result in the water test, as both Pitou (making the leaf disintegrate) and Kurapika in Emperor Time (unseen but tested during a flashback) have demonstrated, so it's a separate category that can both be a "primary" one and one that non-Specialists can possibly develop, though as you say, it's more likely for Manipulators and Conjurers. And yeah, Leol was a Specialist, his ability just worked different. Chrollo jumps through hoops to steal a power as long as the person who he took it from lives, while Leol could just borrow a power if he got the person to owe him a favor. Easier to take, but only "one use", for whatever that means given that both powers he demonstrated had fairly long durations.
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Jan 5, 2016 01:01
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Clarste posted:As I recall, they said something like "Manipulators and Conjurers are the groups most likely to develop a Specialist skill." The impression I got was that most if not all Specialists were like Kurapika, and had one of the normal categories plus Specialization on top of that. So, for example, Chrollo would be a conjurer/specialist (he summons the book), while Pitou would be a manipulator/specialist. As I mentioned Pitou uses Conjouration more then Manipulation. All of her Specialist abilities involve the use of conjuring puppets and dolls.
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Jan 5, 2016 01:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:As I mentioned Pitou uses Conjouration more then Manipulation. All of her Specialist abilities involve the use of conjuring puppets and dolls. The puppets and dolls seem to be closer to the "nen construct" style than the "conjured object" style. We've seen plenty of emitters use things like that (Knuckle, for one) despite the fact that emission is on the exact opposite side of the diagram from conjuration. They tend not to actually do anything other than visually represent what the nen user is doing. I always assumed that they were just clouds of nen that had no real weight, and probably can't be seen by normals at all, and probably not touched even by nen users (again, Knuckle's little thing).
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Jan 5, 2016 01:21
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Roland Jones posted:Specialization is its own thing, it's just assumed to be closer to the "bottom" categories on the hexagon. It has its own result in the water test, as both Pitou (making the leaf disintegrate) and Kurapika in Emperor Time (unseen but tested during a flashback) have demonstrated, so it's a separate category that can both be a "primary" one and one that non-Specialists can possibly develop, though as you say, it's more likely for Manipulators and Conjurers. Leol gets 24 hours out of an ability he borrows. He does not need to use all 24 hours at once and the person he borrowed it from still gets access while Leol is not using it. A powerful ability. it's superior to Chrollo's in the respects that it's easier for Leol to obtain abilities, and that it allows him to take the abilities of his allies without screwing them over in the long term. (As long as he does not use their powers while they are in the middle of fighting.) It has the same flaw as Chrollo's in that he loses access to powers if the person they are obtained from dies. Chrollo gets the powers permanently but has to go through more hoops to get them. Both abilities are good and I would rank them around the same level.
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Jan 5, 2016 01:25
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Clarste posted:The puppets and dolls seem to be closer to the "nen construct" style than the "conjured object" style. We've seen plenty of emitters use things like that (Knuckle, for one) despite the fact that emission is on the exact opposite side of the diagram from conjuration. They tend not to actually do anything other than visually represent what the nen user is doing. I always assumed that they were just clouds of nen that had no real weight, and probably can't be seen by normals at all, and probably not touched even by nen users (again, Knuckle's little thing). Pitou's nen construct are pretty explicitely conjuration. They either conjures a doctor, complete with doctor precise tools (which also limit his movement and has 'weights) or conjure a puppeteer. Something to remember is that conjuration, while it can be seen by people without nen, can be hidden with 'in'. Anyway, a lot of specialists seems to be using conjuration as a medium. Kuroro with his book, Leol with his pod/papers, Pitou with their dolls, Pakunoda with her gun. MonsterEnvy posted:
But yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say either one is better than the other, they are about slightly different theme, "Leading" and "Thieving". Arkeus fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 01:56
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The doctor doesn't have weight, it's magically fixed in space (which Pitou once used to stop in mid-air). It's unclear if the tools actually exist or merely represent the manipulation of flesh through nen, but the fact that Pitou fixed her broken arm through her sleeve indicates the latter to me.
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Jan 5, 2016 02:00
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Bad Seafood posted:He shouldn't need a berserk button to be useful in a brawl. He's a manipulator, a thinker, a researcher, a planner. He could/should have some means of outsmarting his opponents using the resources at his disposal rather than simply overpowering them. He could also just not be a "Fighter." Not everyone needs to be a fighter, especially if it's clear their talents are elsewhere. Hoji is the most important member of Shishio's Ten Swords despite never fighting anybody because of his skills as an administrator and logistician. Eh, I get the impression that the overwhelming majority of nen users are, as just a pre-requisite, extremely strong (with people like Neon who are born with nen abilities as a rare exception). Like, special nen abilities are something that come after achieving some degree of mastery over your physical abilities and more simple nen usage (using your aura, etc). Pretty much any of the troupe could probably easily win against Gon/Killua in the Yorknew arc, despite the two kids being incredibly powerful monsters compared to an average human being. So even if a member of the Phantom Troupe doesn't specialize in combat, they're still probably extremely competent at it. Remember, even your most mediocre hunter is some huge badass who can run 50 miles straight and complete a bunch of other grueling tests that explicitly involve combat. edit: Regarding Shalark's special ability, I don't really mind it. Mostly because his primary ability is completely useless against anyone who isn't significantly weaker than you. That is, it's great for loving up a bunch of normal people or lower class hunters, but if you can't stick the thing in them in the first place you can't control them. And if you *can* stick the thing in them, you could presumably also win via a normal fight. So it's mostly just useful for situations where you need to crate confusion among larger groups of people or something but wouldn't be useful in a duel. Speaking of similar abilities, isn't Illumi's ability superior in everyway to Shalnark's, assuming you ignore the super saiyan thing? It seems like Shalnark's requires the people he controls to be micro-managed. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 02:27
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Completed series  Kurapika is just  for the entire finale which was pretty disappointing but otherwise it was great to see a epilogue. Did he manage to get all the remaining eyes or not? Still sad Killua and Gon parted ways but I understand why now. OK they have e-mail but it's not the same. Also surprised the Phantom Troupe didn't have a resolution.
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Jan 5, 2016 02:45
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Alder posted:Did he manage to get all the remaining eyes or not? Not quite yet. The next arc seems to involve him.
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Jan 5, 2016 02:54
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Arkeus posted:But yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say either one is better than the other, they are about slightly different theme, "Leading" and "Thieving". This is an important point; Chrollo doesn't just want to copy neat abilities he sees, he wants to take them. His ability not only lets him use other people's powers at a whim, but it makes it so that they can't use them ever again either. Were it not for that caveat, I imagine he'd probably have at least a slightly easier power to use, but, he's a thief. He wants to steal things, and his power reflects that.
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Jan 5, 2016 03:12
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So I watched one of the movies with a few friends (had to do with dolls and eyes and whatnot) and it was probably the most pointless thing I ever saw. Is the other one like that?
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Jan 5, 2016 03:24
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Best figure:
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Jan 5, 2016 03:33
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I wish Togashi would just come back full time now that he doesn't have to worry about Naruto guy ripping him off anymore.
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Jan 5, 2016 03:36
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NecroMonster posted:I wish Togashi would just come back full time now that he doesn't have to worry about Naruto guy ripping him off anymore. but boruto...
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Jan 5, 2016 05:02
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Alder posted:Best figure: I don't know what's better, Hisoka's shining crotch or Gon's twice-his-size boot hair.
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Jan 5, 2016 05:52
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Alder posted:Completed series
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Jan 5, 2016 06:32
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Alluka could do it, but they spent all of greed island finding a nen remover so why go through the extra trouble? There has been no indication that what's-his-face isn't up to the job, just that it hasn't happened yet. It took him months to get rid of the bomb on himself, and I'm sure it would take even longer for something crazy like Kurapika's chains.
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Jan 5, 2016 06:38
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I forgot they found the other guy.
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Jan 5, 2016 06:43
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Serious Frolicking posted:Alluka could do it, but they spent all of greed island finding a nen remover so why go through the extra trouble? There has been no indication that what's-his-face isn't up to the job, just that it hasn't happened yet. It took him months to get rid of the bomb on himself, and I'm sure it would take even longer for something crazy like Kurapika's chains. Poor guy probably has a Nen beast the size of a house following him around for the rest of Kurapika's life.
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Jan 5, 2016 10:04
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Momomo posted:So I watched one of the movies with a few friends (had to do with dolls and eyes and whatnot) and it was probably the most pointless thing I ever saw. Is the other one like that? I saw one of the movies a while ago, Last Mission. It was so bad. "On" as a concept is just so stupid. It's the opposite of Nen...because it's fueled by hatred? Nen is just something that exists and people can use it how they like, man, it ain't like the force or something. So dumb. Don't watch it.
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Jan 5, 2016 10:38
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