|
Munin posted:Also, this has 100% more class than anything GW has put out in like forever: I straight up bought the album of the band that did that song after watching that the first time. GW IP is best handled by anybody but GW
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 19:40 |
|
|
Bad Moon posted:I straight up bought the album of the band that did that song after watching that the first time. The best thing about that video was the awful shitlers screeching at the idea of anything 40k being soundtracked by anything other than black metal or gothic chanting
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Also I don't think I can go back to GW now. Even if they did everything better (because as people said its not enough to go back to industry standards), I just enjoy skirmish games a lot more now. I like svelte minis a lot more than heroic scale. Chunky minis are gross to me now. I like being able to set up and tear down a game in 10 minutes. I can't have my childhood back and I'm sure there's a much better alternative to tiny Gundam skirmish games for my Tau robots than 500 point 40k games. That's pretty much what I mean: most ex-GW customers have lost any residual good feelings toward them, so GW would have to market to them as though they were completely fresh faces. For a lot of ex-customers, I think there was a time where all GW had to do was what they're doing now: make models cheaper (the Start Collecting sets) and improve support for Specialist Games. Probably also unfucking the rules for their core systems, but that's not likely to happen overnight. However, they've been making bad decisions for so long that people have just plain moved on. It's been about 8 years since I gave up on GW. There's absolutely nothing left of my nostalgia for them. Even though I like Vermintide quite a bit, I'd probably have liked it exactly the same amount if it were just a generic dark-fantasy Left4Dead. When I look at the Deathwing trailer, I think "hey, that looks cool", but if you swapped all the GW stuff in there with stuff from E.Y.E., I wouldn't care a bit. The only positive trait GW has for me is that its IPs have a gothic/Germanic/heavy metal style that I think is pretty cool, but uh, they don't hold a monopoly on that poo poo. Realistically, I know GW will never do what they'd need to to bring me back as a customer, although if the impossible happened and they made a product that met all my expectations (plus proved to me that this wasn't just a temporary change), I'm sure I'd buy some stuff from them. However, back in the real world, at best I might buy another box of VC skeletons second-hand if I need more skeletons for D&D. e: Helicon One posted:The best thing about that video was the awful shitlers screeching at the idea of anything 40k being soundtracked by anything other than black metal or gothic chanting I would be legit pumped if a GW game trailer ever used actual (good) black metal. Gimme some fukken Darkspace 
Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
Bad Moon posted:I straight up bought the album of the band that did that song after watching that the first time. It even has the nationalistic/fascist overtones!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQDK6x1i8jY I like me military uniforms. Well, and ballet; but frankly, who here doesn't like ballet!? We're all sofisticates.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
In my dream scenario GW would stop making games, license off 40k, WHFB - everything - to other companies to make the rules and focus on making minis. 40k in the hands of Privateer Press, Mantic - any company that has shown it can make a competent, non-abortion of a game - would be a huge win for hobbyists.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
Recently even their miniatures have gone to poo poo though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
pretty much all their new writing sucks too
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Just have someone buy them out for the IP then 'restructure' until all the staff are gone. Then make better games instead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
The IP isn't that good. Get over your nostalgia. Live free brothers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
Thirsty Dog posted:No. Not _the_ Star Wars Christmas Special, but "a" Christmas Special. It didn't feel like a movie that stands on its own, because it spent so long with fan service. In 10-20 years, somebody is going to watch all the Star Wars movies as a marathon without regard for the 15-year-gap between 6 and 1 and the 10-year gap between 3 and 7, and Episode 7 is going to be an incredibly jarring transition. For all their faults, at least the prequels attempted original stories. Episode 7 only holds up right now as a source of income for Disney, and in context to the rest of Star Wars it's really loving awful and confusing. It needlessly destroys the good ending of Episode 6, is a blatant rerun of plot elements from 4-6, has a really confusing setting that makes no sense in context (Who are The Resistance resisting? Did the First Order just blow up their own government? Why is the New Death Star named after the main character from Force Unleashed? etc) and has no real world-building, and tries to breeze past all the "we did this before" lovely points by trying to laugh at them. Han saying, "How do we blow it up?" shouldn't be a thing the audience should just accept at that point in the movie; it should be the point where the audience realizes that the moviemakers KNOW they're reusing all their material and basically have contempt for them. Also, "Read the books to fix all the plot holes" is an unacceptable excuse for a film that (A) retconned the vast majority of its universe (especially if we take the "prequels never mentioned bit" too far), (B) comes from a series of films with laughably non-canon novelizations, and (C) is the 7th in a series of films that functioned acceptably as films. Nobody accepted "Read the Attack of the Clones book to fix it" as an excuse.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Also, "Read the books to fix all the plot holes" is an unacceptable excuse for a film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AWVLnl48&t=351s
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:In 10-20 years, somebody is going to watch all the Star Wars movies as a marathon without regard for the 15-year-gap between 6 and 1 and the 10-year gap between 3 and 7, and Episode 7 is going to be an incredibly jarring transition. For all their faults, at least the prequels attempted original stories. Episode 7 only holds up right now as a source of income for Disney, and in context to the rest of Star Wars it's really loving awful and confusing. It needlessly destroys the good ending of Episode 6, is a blatant rerun of plot elements from 4-6, has a really confusing setting that makes no sense in context (Who are The Resistance resisting? Did the First Order just blow up their own government? Why is the New Death Star named after the main character from Force Unleashed? etc) and has no real world-building, and tries to breeze past all the "we did this before" lovely points by trying to laugh at them. Han saying, "How do we blow it up?" shouldn't be a thing the audience should just accept at that point in the movie; it should be the point where the audience realizes that the moviemakers KNOW they're reusing all their material and basically have contempt for them. Source your quotes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
Nah, he's right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
Yeah, Broken Loose is basically gaming Fishmech.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
I don't know. I think it's pretty disingenuous to criticize a film for how it will hypothetically be received by an audience that doesn't exist yet when the vast majority of the audience watching it in the context it was released in seem to adore it despite any of its supposed plot and setting problems. You have to remember, the people who are dropping the million billion dollars on it are at best loosely aware of Star Wars as a franchise (as in, they don't care about the details) and don't really give a poo poo if the happy ending of 6 is messed up or if the galactic politics aren't clear because it's a fun ride with neat characters that are easy to care about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
I genuinely feel bad for people who can't leave their expectations for great writing at the door when it comes to comic and sci fi movies. I'm a movie snob, for the most part, but I make an exception for Star Wars and the Avengers and the Batmans. Sometimes it's ok to just enjoy the ride instead of treating every movie like it's got to be measured against There WIll Be Blood or something. But then again I was just happy to get a new Star Wars movie where there wasn't 40 minute discussions about the drawbacks of sand and an eight year old making a love connection with a 17 year old.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
Basically Star Wars is a beer and pretzels movie that you shouldn't take too seriously.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Star Wars Disney is like the Bethesda Game of movies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Avenging Dentist posted:Basically Star Wars is a beer and pretzels movie that you shouldn't take too seriously. This is why I'm taking a hip-flask of whiskey to mix with the coke I get at the cinema :P
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
Renfield posted:This is why I'm taking a hip-flask of whiskey to mix with the coke I get at the cinema :P you have a drinking problem if you need it to function in public
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:45
|
|
|
It's not a problem, I can drink just fine. i just don't want to pay cinema prices. (And sitting in a big dark room, on my day off is not functioning in public...)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:47
|
|
|
Chomp8645 posted:Star Wars Disney is like the Bethesda Game of movies. Mediocre story and half of it is inventory management?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 00:55
|
|
|
fnordcircle posted:I genuinely feel bad for people who can't leave their expectations for great writing at the door when it comes to comic and sci fi movies. I don't expect great writing from franchise movies. I do expect that a bunch of people who are professional writers and storytellers can somehow pool their talents to produce a story that is at least logically consistent, has characters that you care about and gives those characters dialogue that doesn't make me cringe with embarrassment. I don't think that 'just turn your brain off and enjoy the ride' is a valid excuse for lovely writing in a project that cost more than the GDP of many actual countries to produce. It's not a binary between art-film wankery and Michael Bay TurboExplodo, you can have action films and summer blockbusters that aren't poo poo, you just need a crew who aren't just stitching together plot coupons to bash out a by-the-numbers formula shitfest for an audience that they are full of contempt for. Having said all of that, I enjoyed TFA. It was not a good movie but I liked the bits that moved the universe along and set up the next two in the trilogy. I can see why JJA made the film that he did and while the film is very flawed, it does serve to show fans what the direction is going to be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:03
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:In 10-20 years, somebody is going to watch all the Star Wars movies as a marathon without regard for the 15-year-gap between 6 and 1 and the 10-year gap between 3 and 7, and Episode 7 is going to be an incredibly jarring transition. For all their faults, at least the prequels attempted original stories. Episode 7 only holds up right now as a source of income for Disney, and in context to the rest of Star Wars it's really loving awful and confusing. It needlessly destroys the good ending of Episode 6, is a blatant rerun of plot elements from 4-6, has a really confusing setting that makes no sense in context (Who are The Resistance resisting? Did the First Order just blow up their own government? Why is the New Death Star named after the main character from Force Unleashed? etc) and has no real world-building, and tries to breeze past all the "we did this before" lovely points by trying to laugh at them. Han saying, "How do we blow it up?" shouldn't be a thing the audience should just accept at that point in the movie; it should be the point where the audience realizes that the moviemakers KNOW they're reusing all their material and basically have contempt for them. Nobody 10 to 20 years from now is going to have played the Force Unleashed before watching the Star Wars movies. that is an absurd criticism.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:03
|
|
|
Fauxtool posted:you have a drinking problem if you need it to function in public Movies are two and a half goddamn hours long nowadays. Do some heroin during the trailers if it'll help you sit through it, IMO.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:05
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:garbage jfc youre terrible
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
Helen Highwater posted:I don't expect great writing from franchise movies. I do expect that a bunch of people who are professional writers and storytellers can somehow pool their talents to produce a story that is at least logically consistent, has characters that you care about and gives those characters dialogue that doesn't make me cringe with embarrassment. I don't think that 'just turn your brain off and enjoy the ride' is a valid excuse for lovely writing in a project that cost more than the GDP of many actual countries to produce. It's not a binary between art-film wankery and Michael Bay TurboExplodo, you can have action films and summer blockbusters that aren't poo poo, you just need a crew who aren't just stitching together plot coupons to bash out a by-the-numbers formula shitfest for an audience that they are full of contempt for. Exactly. The moment Iron Man came out and was a legitimately amazing movie on its own right and not just as a comic book adaptation, the expectation that we should lower our standards for science fiction went out the window. poo poo, the fact that somebody can say "Avengers" in the same statement as "I just turn my brain off" is mind-boggling. Avengers, Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, and Ant-Man stand out as great, well-written, coherent, well-edited, fresh-feeling films in spite of the stigma of superheroes. That's the entire drive of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Even the lesser MCU movies were still pretty good overall, and I'd rather watch any of them (even Iron Man 2, the weakest one) any number of times than Star Wars 7 again, because they feature strongly written characters, solid and consistent world-building, plots that you don't have to make excuses for, and setups that future films that don't sacrifice the integrity of the initial films. boom boom boom posted:Nobody 10 to 20 years from now is going to have played the Force Unleashed before watching the Star Wars movies. that is an absurd criticism. I only made the statement because it was an indicator of how creatively bankrupt the movie was. Not only could they not come up with an original plot for the film, but their name for the Death Star ripoff is stolen from other material. Of all the things they could have named the Death Star 3, they had to choose the one that was already used twice in Star Wars, once in canon (which is no longer canon since Episode 7 retconned all non-movies except for apparently its own book). It would be like re-introducing Squats to 40k, except they're now called Imperial Guard. And 40k fans would defend and lap it up just like Star Wars fans do Starkiller Base. *I should note: The concept of the Empire making newer and larger superweapons constantly in the face of the failure of the previous one is actually not bad! Fascist Right-Wing Religious Fundamentalists tend to act literally insane, and doubling down on a lovely tactic is exactly what they SHOULD be doing. It's just that Star Wars 7 executes it incredibly poorly in a plethora of ways. Broken Loose fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
can we go back to talking about football?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:22
|
|
|
After my second time viewing TFA, I realized that the first half of the movie is actually good and reasonably close to the sort of thing I wanted. The Empire lost a climactic battle sometime since ROTJ and now there's a spaceship graveyard planet, awesome. It being a desert planet is a bit of an eyeroller, but not that much of one--the desert landscape is probaby ideal for showing off the crashed poo poo. It has its own distinct identity from Tatooine, at least. First Order is fine. I can see that being the state of the Empire years down the road. Not in political control of all known space anymore, but clearly still able to field gently caress off triangle ships filled with stormtroopers and tie fighters. This sets us up for some good dramatic space battles, potentially. I'm still on board with where it's all taking me. Han Solo? Yeah, he's graduated to captain of a big freighter. Still his old scoundrel self, but believably 30 years later. All awesome. And then... Then we find out that rather than escalating into awesome Republic vs. Empire campaigns, things have been very carefully adjusted so that once again the Rebellion is trapped in dirty bunkers on a planet about to be destroyed, with only two squadrons of starfighters to their name. It's like midway through the movie, a time wormhole opens up and all the plot points from 40 years ago start coming through. It's all the more jarring because up until that point the movie was doing a good job of being a proper sequel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:25
|
|
|
Moola posted:can we go back to talking about football? In this analogy GW is
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't have high expectations for "comic and sci-fi" or "franchise" movies. They're still just movies. While you might enjoy them in a different way than you'd enjoy a "classic" or some arthouse cinema, that doesn't absolve them from their faults. It's still perfectly valid to criticize a movie even if it's just a space opera or a "children's" movie or whatever. You can even criticize a movie you had fun watching! I think it's pretty weird that the audience is expected to make the best of a movie rather than the creators actually making a good movie. The fact that people expect this even more of recycled IPs from our collective childhoods is especially weird. I get it: nostalgia is a drug and watching a new entry in your favorite franchise makes you feel good. But that doesn't mean you have to use the same bullshit defenses that AoS players use to defend the thing you like. People act like if you don't enjoy some random sci-fi/comic movie that you're missing out on life. It's not like there's any shortage of actual good movies out there. I could probably spend my whole life and never run out of amazing films to watch (granted this is partly because I watch a few movies a month).
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
The new Star Wars movie left out some pretty critical exposition when the series has an established mechanic for just dumping it in; the title scroll. They could've had said why the Resistance even existed in the first place. Any shred would've sufficed. Instead, nah, you're apparently supposed to go read EU bullshit. No thanks. The first half was solid, but the movie really drops the ball later. I was really just bored and unengaged during the second half which isn't the hallmark of a good movie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:35
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Idiotic raging with bad opinions here. Jesus Christ you are the worst loving gimmick in this thread. And your opinions on Star Wars are even more dumb than your usual crazy man rantings about GW. At least Boom3 is sometimes funny with his gimmick and we see the odd cool model robot I won't buy because my model kit pile of shame is rather large. ( Though I do have the Bandai 1/12 First Order Trooper kit on its way here for 26 shipped. Unlike the lovely Black Series figure the kit has better paint apps, the Riot Shield, and the Baton for SICK SPINS. For 6 bucks more. Only the guns will need serious paint work. I'm debating shading mine or maybe even trying to do that bloody handprint thing. Even if it's not for our Patron Saint of said spins...) Is Ep7 the greatest thing? No but I'm a 41 year old man and this isn't 8 year old me getting to see Ep4 on HBO in1983 because my fuckass parents never took me to see like any goddamned movie I wanted to see unless it was a thing they cared about. ( Also no dickhead goons using forum and topic titles to spoil the movie because ruining other folks' enjoyment of harmless thing is cool or something.) I'd rank it a C+ but that's about what I would rank Jurassic World and Fury Road. But at this point I am not sure there is much GW can do. Their models are overpriced and usually bad, their rules are massively overpriced and dogshit, and their fluff is basically only good if you think Walking Dead is uplifting or that Trump would make a great president for reasons other than just hurrying the Apocalypse up. If they were more like early 90s GW with modern game design thoughts and less of this corporate stupidity? If they had White Dwarf issues that were hobby supplements and not just blatant catalogs? If they had multiple games for people to play? If they actually had stuff in department stores even if it meant teaming up with other companies? Probably but we all know that's massively improbable at best. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Avenging Dentist posted:Honestly, I don't see why you wouldn't have high expectations for "comic and sci-fi" or "franchise" movies. They're still just movies. While you might enjoy them in a different way than you'd enjoy a "classic" or some arthouse cinema, that doesn't absolve them from their faults. It's still perfectly valid to criticize a movie even if it's just a space opera or a "children's" movie or whatever. You can even criticize a movie you had fun watching! I think it's pretty weird that the audience is expected to make the best of a movie rather than the creators actually making a good movie. The fact that people expect this even more of recycled IPs from our collective childhoods is especially weird. I get it: nostalgia is a drug and watching a new entry in your favorite franchise makes you feel good. But that doesn't mean you have to use the same bullshit defenses that AoS players use to defend the thing you like. To re-rail the topic, it's this (not you, AD, the dude we're responding to) poisonous type of thinking (the Beer and Pretzels type) that keeps GW operational. Nerds are so desperate to grasp onto a piece of precious nostalgia or their own unique island of fandom that they would absolutely ignore quality in favor of branding. When you say, "Just turn off your brain!" it tells me "Only stupid people would enjoy this." When you say, "Just do it while drinking!" it tells me "Only drunk people would enjoy this." Alcohol literally inhibits judgment. Why the gently caress is "You don't notice the bad parts when you're not sober" considered a recommendation to nerds?! Would you consider "I'd only gently caress you if I were drunk" a compliment? Do you roofie people to get laid? Because that's what you're asking me to do-- you're asking me to get roofied so I can lay back and take whatever stupid bullshit you're trying to shove at me. Beer and Pretzels is the core of GW philosophy. They drink when they playtest (back when they playtested, anyway). Nearly every glowing review of a GW product usually involves the reviewer recommending that you not be sober or think critically about anything at any point. It's the philosophy that divides Rules As Intended and Rules As Written, it otherizes "WAAC" boogeymen, and it relies on trying to hammer Fun or Narrative into your skull whenever any legitimate criticism is brought up. I get drunk-- ridiculously, fake British accent, falling down drunk-- at semi-regular intervals. I smoke weed incredibly frequently. I play video games, I read books and comics, I watch cartoons, I watch movies, I play board games, I go to parties, I do drum circles/nude beaches/political rallies/sex dungeons/occult rituals/art shows/nerd conventions/whatever, but I have standards the whole time. I don't ever think that I should lower my standards just because somebody is wearing my favorite color. I don't lower my standards because I'm playing the sequel to a game I played 20 years ago, or even that actual game in question (there's an infamous picture of an old post where I tear apart how bad the 1st Pokémon games were, despite being very high up in the SA Pokémon community at the time). Games Workshop will get a free pass exactly when any other company or designer gets a free pass in my eyes, which is never. We never would have gotten better games or movies if people only accepted what was available at the time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Captain Rufus posted:I'd rank it a C+ but that's about what I would rank Jurassic World and Fury Road. what the hell if you don't see anything wrong with rating fury road in the same ranking as jurassic world or force awakens, much more giving it a c+, then you seriously do not know what a good movie is. fury road was by far the best film of the year and the best action film of the last 5 years easily.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
Just FYI the name "Starkiller" does not come from The Force Unleashed. It was the name/epithet of Annikin Starkiller in an early draft of the script for The Star Wars in 1975. Edit: Must have missed the original post but yes Fury Road is miles ahead of Jurassic World in every way. It is both more original and a better sequel, and above all it succeeds in being exciting filmmaking, in being artistic filmmaking, and in improving representation of underrepresented groups in cinema. Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jan 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:57
|
|
|
Apollodorus posted:Just FYI the name "Starkiller" does not come from The Force Unleashed. It was the name/epithet of Annikin Starkiller in an early draft of the script for The Star Wars in 1975. Which is why I said, "Twice, once in canon." It's even dumber if you know this information.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Im a loving idiot AMA. This is the dumbest loving poo poo I have read in a long while. A criticism important enough for to bring up is to use a name from a video game nobody gives a poo poo about now and wont give a poo poo about 10 years from now and then you say that you cant bring up the books to solve some plot problem. The gently caress are you trying to say. Also the prequels had two movies sharing the exact same plot, I dont know if you call that original. Also none of the star wars movies besides like, Empire, had anything original in the whatsoever. Like the poo poo your angry at is wrapping in on itself in your own argument to contradict yourself. jfc. Like, yeah okay dont like star wars, theres plenty of reason not to but lol at not even being able to be consistent in your own paragraph.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:what the hell Absolutely. Fury Road was a spectacular tour de force and is a great comparison for Star Wars; both had a plot that was essentially a previous film rewritten, but Fury Road had ambition far beyond Road Warrior, while TFA seemed a very safe retread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 02:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 19:40 |
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Which is why I said, "Twice, once in canon." It's even dumber if you know this information. Neither of those mentions is canon, Starkiller Base is the only canonical use of the name.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2016 02:00
|
|