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Acaila posted:She wasn't asked to look like she did in ANH because she was playing the character 30 years later. Women age, deal with it. Who is asking her to look like a 20 year old? Maybe I'm being misunderstood. I think her character in TFA looked great. I was being critical of the idea that the actress shouldn't have had to get back into age appropriate shape for her role.
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Jan 5, 2016 19:58
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I still think it sounded like most of Fisher's dialouge was dubbed later (since we almost never see her actually speak some of her most important expositional lines as far as I remember) but that just coincides with the rumors that they edited a ton of stuff relating to the plot in post-production.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:00
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Do we have to use spoiler tags in this thread? I am pretty sure everyone who cares about Star Wars has seen TFA by now.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sorry guys, but women on camera must be under 40 or over 70. A generic Old has no place on the stage unless you can pull a Maggie Smith or the silly grandma from Wedding Singer and Wedding Crashers who has been playing a 90 year old since she was 50. Lol don't be such an idiot. Leias character isn't supposed to look good. Losing her son has probably aged her more than those thirty years has. I wasn't making a comment on how attractive she was or wasn't, jesus.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:04
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Do we have to use spoiler tags in this thread? I am pretty sure everyone who cares about Star Wars has seen TFA by now. Spoiler tags for a thread about one film has always seemed immensely silly to me. Perhaps in a thread about multiple self-contained works but you have to be a pretty huge dullard to not realize the seventh movie in a series with a serial plot style was going to be discussed even when talking about past films.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:04
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Do we have to use spoiler tags in this thread? I am pretty sure everyone who cares about Star Wars has seen TFA by now. Yep, until midnight January 17.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's that and a number of other factors. By cutting Leia's scenes, the characterization of Maz and Rey is also simplified. It was disappointing to not see this in the movie. I thought we would, based on the trailers. I wonder why it was cut and if we'll see it in a director's cut.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:06
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Neurolimal posted:The movie is about the interaction between the old and new generation, and how the results of the past have shaped the future that the new generation must deal with. Nothing is trampled on. Han and Leia's romance is realized with Kylo (who's actions are influenced by every one of the old generation), Luke stops the Empire and brings substantial peace to the galaxy, creating a new jedi council and living life in a way natural to -his- older generation. Han's entire arc in the film consists of trying to bury his past and accepting that he must face it. Not even a woman his age, she's 14 years younger than him! The Force Awakens is set 34 years after A New Hope, it's 38 years since A New Hope came out. Fisher is completely age appropriate in the film.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:08
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Acaila posted:Carrie Fisher is still a goddess at three times the age she was in A New Hope, and I don't see you guys slagging off Very Old Man Harrison Ford. I was very impressed by his ability to move in this movie.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:11
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greatn posted:You are kind of ignoring how she holds out the saber in kind of a desperate "please take this from me" gesture. The opening act also shows she has a lot of interest in Luke and the force, thinking he was a legend and asking with wide eyes if it was all true. I'm not ignoring that. The point is that, through creative editing, they changed Rey from a character who fundamentally doesn't want to be a Jedi to a character who fundamentally wants to be a Jedi. That's a massive shift that is, ultimately the source of the 'Mary Sue' complaints. In the original cut, Rey is saying "please take this away from me". Like Anakin, she doesn't want this responsibility. She would prefer to be Han Solo, and hang out with Finn. In the final cut, Rey is saying "please take this because I've always wanted to serve you". In this version, Rey is given everything she wants, with no downsides. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 20:12
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:First things first: the narrative structure of the Star Wars film series is ever-shifting. As each film is introduced, the meaning changes. I circle back to a much simpler theme: The old heroes of the rebellion are graying, dying off, and interested in fighting a battle with the upstarts of the remnants (or deluded fanboys) of the Empire. They've formed a 'Resistance' subgroup that the (New) Republic apparently doesn't take seriously. Leia, Ackbar, Nien Nunb - they're fighting the First Order because they were oppressed by the Empire that influenced it. The Republic doesn't seem to care - hence why a small subgroup has taken it upon themselves to stop the FO. The kids who grew up idolizing the Empire, likely just kids, grew up, and took the reins of whatever was left. They've kind of improved on the old models, by making things look more evil, sleeker, darker, and imposing, whether it actually is or not. No one in charge of the Empire's First Order, save Snoke, looks old at all. General Hux and Kylo Ren are the two leads, and neither looks over 30. As Starkiller base starts to go down, one officer screams that they have to escape - contrast this with Grand Moff Tarkin's 'Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?!'. Starkiller fires upon the Republic planets, wiping out shocked and surprised worlds, who had no idea these idiot kids had this kind of power. The kids built a bigger, scarier Death Star because, well, they're kids, and that's all they really know. They don't appear to grasp much about tactics, strategy, politics, or any kind of discipline. Kylo Ren picks up on Finn's self-doubt, and just stares at him - but doesn't discipline him. Ren throws tantrums, but doesn't lead. The troops themselves don't appear to have any actual tactics or teamwork going on - just a bunch of bullies in uniforms. Attack with overwhelming force and numbers, with big scary weapons that force your enemies to turn and run, so that they can't see how weak/uncoordinated you actually are. Ren dominates Finn in lightsaber combat because he just pounds him. When he fights Rey, he realizes she has some fighting skill, and collapses as soon as he's challenged. Supreme Leader Snoke is probably four feet tall, but appears to his subordinates as a giant, to keep them in awe and obedient. The Resistance needs to recruit skilled young people to oppose the First Order before they die, and before the FO grows up. Until then, they're going to keep things even by leaning on the people that are left, even if that means sacrifice.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:12
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Beeez posted:This article might be interesting for some people, Cnut and SMG in particular might like it. The only problem TFA had with Luke and Leia was involving them too much in the movie. "Shunt" them the hell out of it I say. And its super hilarious you're citing the EU as something good. As someone who read like a dozen of that drek as a kid, they were absolute poo poo then and incredibly poo poo now. Fan service, nerdy pathologies, red headed ladies in skin tight suits ahoy, they were bad. TFA should have had more of the courage of ripping any obeisance to the past aside and make something new. As it is, it serves as a good foundation for someone really inspired to make something, hopefully, new.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:14
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Was the "I know something of waiting" line from one of the trailers cut from the film or did I just miss it? It sounded like Phasma/Gwendoline Christie said it.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:15
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Neurolimal posted:This doesn't mean the politics have to be dull, lacking in any relateable protagonist, and then skip large amounts of it to get to space-Venice (which was a few clear plastic instruments away from being a star trek set) What would have made the politics more exciting? A filibuster by Jar Jar? I thought they were interesting by watching Palpatine pull the strings the entire time and no one having any idea, even after Dooku spills the beans to Obi Wan. Ultimately Anakin is the protagonist of the PT, even if he doesn't play an obviously leading role in TPM. The PT movies are nonconventional because you they're meant to be looked at as a whole rather than individually. It's a luxury that Lucas bought himself through the success of the OT and I don't think enough people realize that. That's why TPM doesn't have a clearcut protagonist and it's because the movie is setting up the rest of the series, not trying to be a standalone movie.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:17
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the trump tutelage posted:Was the "I know something of waiting" line from one of the trailers cut from the film or did I just miss it? It sounded like Phasma/Gwendoline Christie said it. Rey says it to BB8 shortly after they first meet.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:21
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Shoren posted:What would have made the politics more exciting? A filibuster by Jar Jar? I thought they were interesting by watching Palpatine pull the strings the entire time and no one having any idea, even after Dooku spills the beans to Obi Wan. Everyone does seem to be aware of how evil Palpatine is. It's just everyone seems to be far too restrained by some magic plot device of ~~Sith powers~~ to do anything about it.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:36
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Shoren posted:What would have made the politics more exciting? A filibuster by Jar Jar? I thought they were interesting by watching Palpatine pull the strings the entire time and no one having any idea, even after Dooku spills the beans to Obi Wan. This is also amazing. Best justification for the PT yet, bravo. As to the answer to your question: absolutely anything else other than starting off the opening crawl with the phrase "the taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute" then have our undefined blah heroes fight a crowd of boring robots in a corridor. The politics aren't exciting at all in TPM (and since this is a movie, I judge it on being a single movie), and worse yet, it doesn't even make it worth your while to figure out why.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:39
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hemale in pain posted:Everyone does seem to be aware of how evil Palpatine is. It's just everyone seems to be far too restrained by some magic plot device of ~~Sith powers~~ to do anything about it. Its not a magic plot device. The Jedi are weak. Yoda says their power to predict the future has lessened, which is probably why they've become weak cuz they're constantly trying to predict future when they should be focusing on what's going on right in front of them
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Jan 5, 2016 20:43
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A we sure that Marky Mark is a good guy...? Would Luke going bad be too edgy for the franchise?
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Jan 5, 2016 20:46
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straight up brolic posted:A we sure that Marky Mark is a good guy...? Would Luke going bad be too edgy for the franchise?
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Jan 5, 2016 20:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's that and a number of other factors. By cutting Leia's scenes, the characterization of Maz and Rey is also simplified. Noam Chomsky posted:It was disappointing to not see this in the movie. I thought we would, based on the trailers. I wonder why it was cut and if we'll see it in a director's cut.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:49
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Shageletic posted:This is also amazing. Best justification for the PT yet, bravo. As to the answer to your question: absolutely anything else other than starting off the opening crawl with the phrase "the taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute" then have our undefined blah heroes fight a crowd of boring robots in a corridor. The politics aren't exciting at all in TPM (and since this is a movie, I judge it on being a single movie), and worse yet, it doesn't even make it worth your while to figure out why. My least favorite thing about the prequels are the shiny, useless objects. - The silvery SR-41 that Amidala escapes Naboo in - The electric tubes in the background of the duel of Phantom Menace - The glowy ball thing Boss Nass holds up at the end of TPM - The cloners on Kamino, and their architecture - Tons of sports on TV at the bar - The Gungan underwater palaces - The palaces on Naboo - The looooong chase scenes in traffic on Coruscant in AotC - Dexter Jettster's 50s diner None of them mean anything, they're just pretty because the CGI technology allowed it. The politics are pointless, but at least it could have meant something if it were better written. The shiny crap is just in the way, which makes it worse.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:50
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I like the big glowy ball. It's the friendship orb!
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Jan 5, 2016 20:52
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Red posted:None of them mean anything, they're just pretty because the CGI technology allowed it. The politics are pointless, but at least it could have meant something if it were better written. The shiny crap is just in the way, which makes it worse. This isn't really true. They present a far more utopian fanciful future than the original trilogy which is largely rough and utilitarian. It absolutely sets a tone difference between the two. I mean I personally dislike that design sense but it does serve a purpose.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:52
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I honestly hated most of the bar stuff before the force vision. It was sort of redeemed by that but I don't think the film would of lost anything by cutting out Maz entirely.corn in the fridge posted:Its not a magic plot device. The Jedi are weak. Yoda says their power to predict the future has lessened, which is probably why they've become weak cuz they're constantly trying to predict future when they should be focusing on what's going on right in front of them Yea, I know the jedi are supposed to suck and rely too much on the force for predicting things but daaamn maybe make it less obvious that Palpatine is the sith to the jedi? The jedi pretty much know it by the end of the second movie, Yoda is constantly concerned about it even! I know it's a kids show so bad guys gotta be comically evil and obvious, and we're doing the "LOOK BEHIND YOU!" panto routine.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:57
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ImpAtom posted:This isn't really true. They present a far more utopian fanciful future than the original trilogy which is largely rough and utilitarian. It absolutely sets a tone difference between the two. The Gungans, aside from the idiotic Jar Jar, appear to be fairly militant, stiff, and resistant to change. They're xenophobic, it appears. Nothing about their see-through glass underwater palace reflects that, other than it's underwater. So, it's pretty for the sake of being pretty. Naboo is very green, which is nice to look at, but the buildings all look empty and fake. I don't dispute that it's meant to look utopian, but it looks to the viewer like a CGI city made for a fairy tale movie. The sports bar on Coruscant looks closer to how a bar might look in Marty's trip to Hill Valley 2055, rather than a bar on Coruscant. I think you're right in interpreting what they wanted to do, but it looks like the rest of the prequels - lovely and overindulgent, because no one had any filters or anyone telling them "no". greatn posted:I like the big glowy ball. It's the friendship orb! At least the medals made sense. Is the orb a gift to the Naboo from Nass? Is it a gift from the Naboo to Nass? Is it a gift from the Jedi to both? Is it a thing Nass won in a crane game? Is it the power core from the droid control ship? It is absolute guesswork to figure out what it's supposed to be, and nothing hints at what it could be. It's lazy as poo poo, and it's only there because George Lucas likely said, "They should have an orb to hold up at the end to signify their relationship,", without actually clarifying what it is or does. He had the foundation of an idea, but never fleshed it out, and no one bothered to ask him.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:00
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hemale in pain posted:I honestly hated most of the bar stuff before the force vision. It was sort of redeemed by that but I don't think the film would of lost anything by cutting out Maz entirely. That would mean changing the Emperor though, and he's so much fun to watch. He's completely in love with evil. He wants to go to the movies with evil and put his dick in the popcorn. He's a joy to watch.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:01
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I thought the orb represented the Gungans being invited to join the senate. But that doesn't seem to happen.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:02
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hemale in pain posted:I honestly hated most of the bar stuff before the force vision. It was sort of redeemed by that but I don't think the film would of lost anything by cutting out Maz entirely.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:04
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Steve2911 posted:I thought the orb represented the Gungans being invited to join the senate. But that doesn't seem to happen. Jar-Jar is literally one of Naboo's senators in AotC.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:05
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Red posted:The Gungans, aside from the idiotic Jar Jar, appear to be fairly militant, stiff, and resistant to change. They're xenophobic, it appears. Nothing about their see-through glass underwater palace reflects that, other than it's underwater. So, it's pretty for the sake of being pretty. You don't think the fact that the Gungans who are are xenophobic live isolated underwater while the humans live in palaces that "look empty and fake" has any meaning?? I mean, like ImpAtom was saying, if you don't like the aesthetic that's fine but c'mon.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:05
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ImpAtom posted:Jar-Jar is literally one of Naboo's senators in AotC. Officially? I got the impression he was just hanging around being himself until he was tricked into becoming Padme's proxy. Why would he need to step in for Padme if he was already a senator?
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Jan 5, 2016 21:07
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It did kind of bum me out that they spent so much effort and care making real alien puppets only to have the two aliens with speaking roles (Snoke and Maz) be fully CG. I guess to most people talking puppets look bad, but I still think the puppet Yoda from Empire holds up way better than his CG counterpart in the prequels. Original PT and RotJ look a little rough though.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:08
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Ghetto Prince posted:This is from way back, but I think the part of the problem that younger people have with the old star wars movies is that we watched the special editions , which are full of crazy poo poo that makes no sense. Are you kidding? Jedi Rocks is legitimately a highlight of the movie for some kids just getting into Star Wars. The alien singer gets a name and backstory in the Clone Wars cartoon, which kids adore—Jedi Rocks is, for them, a cool cameo. They also just plain don't have the critical filter or inclination to segregate the weirdness of Star Wars into Good, Pure Childhood Memories and Bad, Not-My-Star-Wars Lucas Dreck. And when they do age enough to develop those? Well, if they grew up with the special editions and that's all they've ever known, Jedi Rocks will still likely be as much of the ~~magic of Star Wars~~ as the orginal cantina band. And lol if you think a single SE change other than Jedi Rocks and the Han-Jabba spaceport scene is even detectable/meaningful to non-crazies. They added more storm troopers to the Death Star!!??! The horror, childhood ruined
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Jan 5, 2016 21:08
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The orb is the Matrix of Leadership, and upon taking it Jar Jar becomes Jarimus Prime.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:10
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Red posted:My least favorite thing about the prequels are the shiny, useless objects.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:10
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Are you kidding? Jedi Rocks is legitimately a highlight of the movie for some kids just getting into Star Wars. The alien singer gets a name and backstory in the Clone Wars cartoon, which kids adore—Jedi Rocks is, for them, a cool cameo. The rando dinosaurs running around Mos Eisley is pretty blatant but yeah, the stuff people actually care about in the SE is probably limited the underside of 10 minutes.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:11
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Hazo posted:After seeing it a second time I agree. In fact the whole part from when Han scoops them up until the Force vision I felt pretty disinterested. Even the tentacle monsters bit didn't really do anything for me. Tentacles felt like something from Rebels or the Clone wars cartoon so I sorta enjoyed but it was out of place.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:12
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Guy A. Person posted:You don't think the fact that the Gungans who are are xenophobic live isolated underwater while the humans live in palaces that "look empty and fake" has any meaning?? I would think someone as militant and xenophobic as the Gungans would have mines or barriers set up. Instead, Obi-Wan, Jar-Jar and Qui-Gon each swim right into the main palace. Later, the droids (somehow) drive the Gungans out of their city, and to a forest hiding place. So, the palace isn't even dis-inviting, and it can't repel invaders, either. Makes you assume that those giant sea creatures must stop by to eat them once in a while. The palaces of Naboo look nice from a distance, but even then, they just look to CGI and fake - and when you get closer, it's a weird combination of fairy tale and Venice. But I do like the tons of green. It's mostly me disliking the aesthetic, but I don't think they work so great for what they're intended to be, either. I remember it being a popular theory in the late 90s that Naboo would be ruined by war, and eventually become Dagobah, by the way.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:12
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FutonForensic posted:It did kind of bum me out that they spent so much effort and care making real alien puppets only to have the two aliens with speaking roles (Snoke and Maz) be fully CG. I guess to most people talking puppets look bad, but I still think the puppet Yoda from Empire holds up way better than his CG counterpart in the prequels. That Ep I puppet is just insane. I can't get over how bad it looks.
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